| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Bruce W.1" |
| Date: |
16 Aug 2005 06:34:34 PM |
| Object: |
Simple water flow question |
Say I have two water tanks, one at 24" lower elevation than the other.
The top water tank fills itself automatically, like a toilet bowl tank.
The bottom tank also needs to fill itself automatically but from the top
tank, without overflowing, because water is occasionally removed from
this bottom tank. Is there a passive way to do this?
If a siphon tube was used, the bottom tank would of course overflow.
You can hold a glass of water upside and above other water, but that's
because a vacuum is created in the top of the glass. My water tanks
would be open to the air.
Is there a simple way to maintain a constant water level in the lower tank?
Thanks for your help.
.
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| User: "NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 08:00:21 PM |
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"Bruce W.1" <sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote in message
news:eKuMe.1436$AT7.1405@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
Say I have two water tanks, one at 24" lower elevation than the other.
The top water tank fills itself automatically, like a toilet bowl tank.
The bottom tank also needs to fill itself automatically but from the top
tank, without overflowing, because water is occasionally removed from
this bottom tank. Is there a passive way to do this?
If a siphon tube was used, the bottom tank would of course overflow.
You can hold a glass of water upside and above other water, but that's
because a vacuum is created in the top of the glass. My water tanks
would be open to the air.
Is there a simple way to maintain a constant water level in the lower
tank?
Thanks for your help.
I would use a shutoff valve like they have with dog water bowls, kind of
like a float valve.
$6.00 at a Livestock store
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 06:53:56 PM |
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"Bruce W.1" wrote:
Say I have two water tanks, one at 24" lower elevation than the other.
The top water tank fills itself automatically, like a toilet bowl tank.
An apt analogy is bootstrapped.
The bottom tank also needs to fill itself automatically but from the top
tank, without overflowing, because water is occasionally removed from
this bottom tank. Is there a passive way to do this?
If a siphon tube was used, the bottom tank would of course overflow.
You can hold a glass of water upside and above other water, but that's
because a vacuum is created in the top of the glass. My water tanks
would be open to the air.
Is there a simple way to maintain a constant water level in the lower tank?
Clapper valve and float - just like in a toilet.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 07:58:08 PM |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:43027C94.CF8E73CD@hate.spam.net...
[snip crap]
Hey Idiot!
Let's see if you know any high school algebra.
Given:
½[tau(0,0,0,t)+tau(0,0,0,t+x'/(c-v)+x'/(c+v))] = tau(x',0,0,t+x'/(c-v))
Need a reference, phuckwit? No need, you've quoted it yourself before,
stoooopid.
Doubling both sides:
tau(0,0,0,t)+tau(0,0,0,t+x'/(c-v)+x'/(c+v)) = 2 * tau(x',0,0,t+x'/(c-v))
Taking out the t for 3:00pm on a Friday afternoon:
tau(0,0,0,0)+tau(0,0,0,x'/(c-v)+x'/(c+v)) = 2 * tau(x',0,0,x'/(c-v))
Synchronize clocks at t = 0, we remove tau(0,0,0,0)+
tau(0,0,0,x'/(c-v)+x'/(c+v)) = 2 * tau(x',0,0,x'/(c-v))
Taking coordinate x' as infinitessimally small, as he says,
you not quite realizing x' is both a coordinate and a distance,
he does that to differentiate, so we leave the distance alone,
dx/dt = x/t anyway with a constant velocity.
tau(0,0,0,x'/(c-v)+x'/(c+v)) = 2 * tau(0,0,0,x'/(c-v))
Removing the superflous coordinates, all zero:
tau(x'/(c-v)+x'/(c+v)) = 2 * tau(x'/(c-v))
Setting the time a = x'/(c-v) and b =x'/(c+v) for clarity
tau(a+b) = 2*tau(a)
Renaming tau as f,
f(a+b) = 2f(a) or
½f(a+b) = f(a)
Now tell me that's a linear function, a > b.
"In the first place it is clear that the equations must be linear
on account of the properties of homogeneity which we attribute to
space and time." -- Albert Phuckwit/Huckster Einstein.
In the second place tau is not a linear function. -- Androcles.
In the third place there are no coordinates to transform.
In the fourth place you've been had! (and not by me either)
Hahahahahahaha!!
Stoopid Schwartz is a phuckwit and she's been had!
Androcles.
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| User: "Llanzlan Klazmon" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 09:06:22 PM |
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"Androcles" <Androcles@ MyPlace.org> wrote in news:AYvMe.7893$Wq4.7420
@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk:
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:43027C94.CF8E73CD@hate.spam.net...
[snip crap]
Hey Idiot!
Let's see if you know any high school algebra.
Hey androtwit. Have you learned the difference between + and - yet? LOL
Klazmon.
<SNIP>
Androcles.
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| User: "Charles" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 06:42:08 PM |
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On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 23:34:34 GMT, "Bruce W.1"
<sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote:
Say I have two water tanks, one at 24" lower elevation than the other.
The top water tank fills itself automatically, like a toilet bowl tank.
The bottom tank also needs to fill itself automatically but from the top
tank, without overflowing, because water is occasionally removed from
this bottom tank. Is there a passive way to do this?
If a siphon tube was used, the bottom tank would of course overflow.
You can hold a glass of water upside and above other water, but that's
because a vacuum is created in the top of the glass. My water tanks
would be open to the air.
Is there a simple way to maintain a constant water level in the lower tank?
Thanks for your help.
A float valve like in the top tank of the toilet.
.
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| User: "Bruce W.1" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 08:20:40 PM |
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Charles wrote:
A float valve like in the top tank of the toilet.
===========================================
That would work, in theory anyway. But I don't think a toilet float
valve works with a low pressure water source like a reservoir or tank.
.
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| User: "NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 08:38:14 PM |
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"Bruce W.1" <sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote in message
news:IhwMe.1891$Z%6.273@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Charles wrote:
A float valve like in the top tank of the toilet.
===========================================
That would work, in theory anyway. But I don't think a toilet float
valve works with a low pressure water source like a reservoir or tank.
Works better with low water pressures than with high pressure. Even no water
pressure, it is still held shut. (don't think of it as a TOILET float)
.
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| User: "Bruce W.1" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 11:24:47 PM |
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NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel wrote:
"Bruce W.1" <sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote in message
news:IhwMe.1891$Z%6.273@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Charles wrote:
A float valve like in the top tank of the toilet.
===========================================
That would work, in theory anyway. But I don't think a toilet float
valve works with a low pressure water source like a reservoir or tank.
Works better with low water pressures than with high pressure. Even no water
pressure, it is still held shut. (don't think of it as a TOILET float)
=====================================
I'm concerned about the range of travel of the float sphere thingy in a
toilet bowl tank. It drops about 8"
I'd like to keep the lower tank's water level within an inch or two.
Does a toilet valve open when the water level drops an inch or is there
a detent which opens the valve at the bottom of the float sphere
thingy's arm pivot?
.
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| User: "NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
17 Aug 2005 01:26:15 AM |
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"Bruce W.1" <sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote in message
news:j_yMe.2116$Z%6.1785@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel wrote:
"Bruce W.1" <sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote in message
news:IhwMe.1891$Z%6.273@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Charles wrote:
A float valve like in the top tank of the toilet.
===========================================
That would work, in theory anyway. But I don't think a toilet float
valve works with a low pressure water source like a reservoir or tank.
Works better with low water pressures than with high pressure. Even no
water
pressure, it is still held shut. (don't think of it as a TOILET float)
=====================================
I'm concerned about the range of travel of the float sphere thingy in a
toilet bowl tank. It drops about 8"
I'd like to keep the lower tank's water level within an inch or two.
Does a toilet valve open when the water level drops an inch or is there
a detent which opens the valve at the bottom of the float sphere
thingy's arm pivot?
I have used three types, but they were all different, one was for water
fill/cutoff on cow water tank(that is about 1/2 inch or lessrepetable
accuracy $6), another is la toilette, and the other is a float for a whole
house air cooler using water evaporation and wet pads. The last had a float
that cut off in a 1 inch range (normal water pressure) all plastic, kept the
waterlevel within 1/2 inch. That had a l shaped arm with the float on one
end and the pivot at the corner,and the plug at the other end. about 8
inches total length
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| User: "Charles" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 11:37:43 PM |
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On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 04:24:47 GMT, "Bruce W.1"
<sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote:
NightsoilDalits@RyugyongHotel wrote:
"Bruce W.1" <sorry@noDirectEmail.com> wrote in message
news:IhwMe.1891$Z%6.273@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...
Charles wrote:
A float valve like in the top tank of the toilet.
===========================================
That would work, in theory anyway. But I don't think a toilet float
valve works with a low pressure water source like a reservoir or tank.
Works better with low water pressures than with high pressure. Even no water
pressure, it is still held shut. (don't think of it as a TOILET float)
=====================================
I'm concerned about the range of travel of the float sphere thingy in a
toilet bowl tank. It drops about 8"
I'd like to keep the lower tank's water level within an inch or two.
Does a toilet valve open when the water level drops an inch or is there
a detent which opens the valve at the bottom of the float sphere
thingy's arm pivot?
If you really want to know...
Do you have a toilet? Try it. Nothing anyone says here means
anything when compared to real experience. the valve from a toilet
would work, but be a bit awkard to incorporate. one made for a stock
tank might be easier.
.
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| User: "Bruce W.1" |
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| Title: Re: Simple water flow question |
16 Aug 2005 11:47:18 PM |
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Charles wrote:
If you really want to know...
Do you have a toilet? Try it. Nothing anyone says here means
anything when compared to real experience. the valve from a toilet
would work, but be a bit awkard to incorporate. one made for a stock
tank might be easier.
=============================================
Funny you should mention that. My toilet does not have a conventional
float ball on an arm, rather it has float cylinder which travels up and
down the vertical water pipe. From its top-most position it needs to
travel down about 3" before the valve opens. I'd like a tighter range
than that.
Some of the world's best minds have improved toilets, but I think most
of them must have been women. 8^)
But seriously, there must be a way to do this passively, with little
waterfalls or something.
.
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