| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
| Date: |
28 Jun 2005 08:30:05 PM |
| Object: |
SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
Solar Tower of Power
By Roy Spencer
Tech Central Station
www.techcentralstation.com
May 16, 2005
In a recent speech, President Bush addressed the need to
start building more oil refineries, nuclear power plants,
and natural gas terminals to meet the growing demand for
energy in the U.S. While improved fuel efficiency for
cars was also mentioned, the speech was met with disdain
from environmentalists for its reliance on the further
expansion of the fossil fuel industry infrastructure.
In today's world, and in the foreseeable future, it's
impossible to not have foreign oil as part of the energy
mix, but there are advances in new technologies that may
make renewables a more viable option for future
generations. For instance, in the next year or so,
construction will begin in Australia's Outback on the
most expansive, and tallest, manmade structure on Earth.
The "Solar Tower" will be a 200 megawatt electrical
generating plant that gets its energy from harnessing the
daily solar heating of the desert surface. This heat
creates a self-contained wind field that drives a network
of 32 turbines. The concept is marvelously simple, but is
still an engineering challenge. The 3,000 foot tall
"chimney" at the center will dwarf other buildings around
the world, standing nearly twice as tall as "Taipei 101"
in Taiwan. The glass-covered canopy surrounding the tower
will be about four miles in diameter. A much smaller
version of the Australian facility was built in Spain,
and operated continuously between 1982 and 1989. Once
built, the facility will continue to produce electricity
indefinitely.
Most solar energy technologies have historically been
rather expensive. This is partly because the solar
collector surface has always been man-made. Since the
amount of energy falling on each square foot of a
collector is relatively small (100 watts at the most when
the sun is directly overhead), even a perfectly efficient
system does not get much energy bang for the buck. The
solar tower design instead uses the Earths surface,
probably a desert location, as the solar collector. It
simply requires a clear canopy for the sunlight to enter,
but to contain the solar-heated air, preventing it from
rising until it is naturally sucked up the chimney.
Since the current Solar Tower design is expected to be
somewhat more expensive than a coal-fired power plant
with comparable output, it has been partially subsidized
by the Australian government. Yet, I can see hope for
improving the power output efficiency of the basic
design, which currently runs around 1 to 3 percent. After
reading technical papers on the subject, the first
advance I could see is covering the ground under the
canopy with a thin layer of black material, maybe crushed
lava rock, to maximize the absorption of solar radiation.
Similarly, engineering advances that could bring down the
cost of the two main structural components, the central
tower and the huge glass-covered canopy, would also
improve its cost competitiveness.
The Solar Tower is about as green as you can get. It
generates no waste or pollution. It is safe. People can
work under the canopy since the wind speeds it generates
are less than about 30 mph. And of course, it uses no
fossil fuels. It also continues to generate electricity
at night, at reduced output, because the soil that is
heated during the daytime continues to release its heat
to the air at night.
From what I have been able to determine, the U.S.
government is not currently funding research into solar
towers. (Or, if it is, it has been a well kept secret).
If the current administration would like to enhance its
green credentials, maybe it is time to spearhead a major
solar tower research initiative here in the United
States. The first one built would be a source of national
pride, and a tourist attraction, to boot. This is the
first solar power technology I have personally been
excited about, and I have a feeling that it will
eventually be a major component of our energy generation
future. In combination with a future hydrogen fuel
technology, solar towers could eventually provide the
electricity needed to make hydrogen to fuel cars. Or,
battery powered cars could be charged directly.
We don't know if the Solar Tower is the answer, if
hydrogen will become workable or if there is some other,
new, yet undiscovered energy source that will provide
future generations' energy. What we do know is that we
won't find the answer unless we continue to fund research
and technology. Technology will eventually make all of
our energy cleaner -- fossil-fuel based and renewable.
Tech Central Station
http://www.techcentralstation.com/051605C.html
- - - - - - -
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:16:47 AM by aculeus
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
.
|
|
| User: "CWatters" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
29 Jun 2005 02:28:50 AM |
|
|
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:SEUfU2166ICOpo@JsiAp...
Solar Tower of Power
For instance, in the next year or so,
construction will begin in Australia's Outback on the
most expansive, and tallest, manmade structure on Earth.
Haven't they built that thing yet? I thought I read about it 5 years ago.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
29 Jun 2005 12:01:51 PM |
|
|
CWatters wrote:
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:SEUfU2166ICOpo@JsiAp...
Solar Tower of Power
For instance, in the next year or so,
construction will begin in Australia's Outback on the
most expansive, and tallest, manmade structure on Earth.
Haven't they built that thing yet? I thought I read about it 5 years ago.
http://www.wentworth.nsw.gov.au/solartower/
The 200MW would be the peak output. They claim it will operate 24 hours
a day but the output will definitely be diminished during the night. I
don't see mention of a floor to store heat. Say a 50% utilization
factor? So an equivalent 100MW plant. Cost is said to be $700 million.
That makes it $7/watt, not great, not terrible. Granted it near the peak
demand but because it may lag by some 3 or 4 hours you will still need
alternate capacity.
Land utilization is pretty crummy. 38E6 m^2 for 200 mw means 5
watts/m^2. That's only a half a percent solar efficiency.
Best, Dan.
--
Add one for email
.
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
29 Jun 2005 01:50:47 PM |
|
|
Forwarded message:
-To: aculeus
Practical use of solar power needs lighter, cheaper and
much more efficient panels and batteries.
Posted on 5/16/2005 7:25:55 AM by Semper Paratus
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
|
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|
|
|
|
| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 08:32:05 PM |
|
|
Forwarded message:
View image here:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/images/solartower.jpg
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:16:47 AM by aculeus
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message
Solar Tower of Power
By Roy Spencer
Tech Central Station
www.techcentralstation.com
May 16, 2005
In a recent speech, President Bush addressed the need to
start building more oil refineries, nuclear power plants,
and natural gas terminals to meet the growing demand for
energy in the U.S. While improved fuel efficiency for
cars was also mentioned, the speech was met with disdain
from environmentalists for its reliance on the further
expansion of the fossil fuel industry infrastructure.
In today's world, and in the foreseeable future, it's
impossible to not have foreign oil as part of the energy
mix, but there are advances in new technologies that may
make renewables a more viable option for future
generations. For instance, in the next year or so,
construction will begin in Australia's Outback on the
most expansive, and tallest, manmade structure on Earth.
The "Solar Tower" will be a 200 megawatt electrical
generating plant that gets its energy from harnessing the
daily solar heating of the desert surface. This heat
creates a self-contained wind field that drives a network
of 32 turbines. The concept is marvelously simple, but is
still an engineering challenge. The 3,000 foot tall
"chimney" at the center will dwarf other buildings around
the world, standing nearly twice as tall as "Taipei 101"
in Taiwan. The glass-covered canopy surrounding the tower
will be about four miles in diameter. A much smaller
version of the Australian facility was built in Spain,
and operated continuously between 1982 and 1989. Once
built, the facility will continue to produce electricity
indefinitely.
Most solar energy technologies have historically been
rather expensive. This is partly because the solar
collector surface has always been man-made. Since the
amount of energy falling on each square foot of a
collector is relatively small (100 watts at the most when
the sun is directly overhead), even a perfectly efficient
system does not get much energy bang for the buck. The
solar tower design instead uses the Earths surface,
probably a desert location, as the solar collector. It
simply requires a clear canopy for the sunlight to enter,
but to contain the solar-heated air, preventing it from
rising until it is naturally sucked up the chimney.
Since the current Solar Tower design is expected to be
somewhat more expensive than a coal-fired power plant
with comparable output, it has been partially subsidized
by the Australian government. Yet, I can see hope for
improving the power output efficiency of the basic
design, which currently runs around 1 to 3 percent. After
reading technical papers on the subject, the first
advance I could see is covering the ground under the
canopy with a thin layer of black material, maybe crushed
lava rock, to maximize the absorption of solar radiation.
Similarly, engineering advances that could bring down the
cost of the two main structural components, the central
tower and the huge glass-covered canopy, would also
improve its cost competitiveness.
The Solar Tower is about as green as you can get. It
generates no waste or pollution. It is safe. People can
work under the canopy since the wind speeds it generates
are less than about 30 mph. And of course, it uses no
fossil fuels. It also continues to generate electricity
at night, at reduced output, because the soil that is
heated during the daytime continues to release its heat
to the air at night.
From what I have been able to determine, the U.S.
government is not currently funding research into solar
towers. (Or, if it is, it has been a well kept secret).
If the current administration would like to enhance its
green credentials, maybe it is time to spearhead a major
solar tower research initiative here in the United
States. The first one built would be a source of national
pride, and a tourist attraction, to boot. This is the
first solar power technology I have personally been
excited about, and I have a feeling that it will
eventually be a major component of our energy generation
future. In combination with a future hydrogen fuel
technology, solar towers could eventually provide the
electricity needed to make hydrogen to fuel cars. Or,
battery powered cars could be charged directly.
We don't know if the Solar Tower is the answer, if
hydrogen will become workable or if there is some other,
new, yet undiscovered energy source that will provide
future generations' energy. What we do know is that we
won't find the answer unless we continue to fund research
and technology. Technology will eventually make all of
our energy cleaner -- fossil-fuel based and renewable.
Tech Central Station
http://www.techcentralstation.com/051605C.html
- - - - - - -
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:16:47 AM by aculeus
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the article.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 08:34:57 PM |
|
|
Forwarded messages:
-To: aculeus
Kewl !!!
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:19:18 AM by willgolfforfood
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: aculeus
They ain't gonna put one of those things in my back yard.
Spoils my view of the pig confinement buildings my
neigbors have.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:21:44 AM by Piquaboy
(22 year veteran of the Army, Air Force and Navy, Pray
for all our military .)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: willgolfforfood
Three thousand foot chimney?
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:24:11 AM by Eric in the Ozarks
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: aculeus
Since the amount of energy falling on each square foot of
a collector is relatively small (100 watts at the most
when the sun is directly overhead), even a perfectly
efficient system does not get much energy bang for the
buck. The solar tower design instead uses the Earths
surface, probably a desert location, as the solar
collector.
But you're still limited to collecting 100 watts per
square foot. All that you've changed is the mechanism for
harvesting the energy.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:25:10 AM by Fudd
(I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle a
Glock foe-ty....)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Forwarded message:
View image here:
http://www.techcentralstation.com/images/solartower.jpg
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:16:47 AM by aculeus
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message
Solar Tower of Power
By Roy Spencer
Tech Central Station
www.techcentralstation.com
May 16, 2005
In a recent speech, President Bush addressed the need to
start building more oil refineries, nuclear power plants,
and natural gas terminals to meet the growing demand for
energy in the U.S. While improved fuel efficiency for
cars was also mentioned, the speech was met with disdain
from environmentalists for its reliance on the further
expansion of the fossil fuel industry infrastructure.
In today's world, and in the foreseeable future, it's
impossible to not have foreign oil as part of the energy
mix, but there are advances in new technologies that may
make renewables a more viable option for future
generations. For instance, in the next year or so,
construction will begin in Australia's Outback on the
most expansive, and tallest, manmade structure on Earth.
The "Solar Tower" will be a 200 megawatt electrical
generating plant that gets its energy from harnessing the
daily solar heating of the desert surface. This heat
creates a self-contained wind field that drives a network
of 32 turbines. The concept is marvelously simple, but is
still an engineering challenge. The 3,000 foot tall
"chimney" at the center will dwarf other buildings around
the world, standing nearly twice as tall as "Taipei 101"
in Taiwan. The glass-covered canopy surrounding the tower
will be about four miles in diameter. A much smaller
version of the Australian facility was built in Spain,
and operated continuously between 1982 and 1989. Once
built, the facility will continue to produce electricity
indefinitely.
Most solar energy technologies have historically been
rather expensive. This is partly because the solar
collector surface has always been man-made. Since the
amount of energy falling on each square foot of a
collector is relatively small (100 watts at the most when
the sun is directly overhead), even a perfectly efficient
system does not get much energy bang for the buck. The
solar tower design instead uses the Earths surface,
probably a desert location, as the solar collector. It
simply requires a clear canopy for the sunlight to enter,
but to contain the solar-heated air, preventing it from
rising until it is naturally sucked up the chimney.
Since the current Solar Tower design is expected to be
somewhat more expensive than a coal-fired power plant
with comparable output, it has been partially subsidized
by the Australian government. Yet, I can see hope for
improving the power output efficiency of the basic
design, which currently runs around 1 to 3 percent. After
reading technical papers on the subject, the first
advance I could see is covering the ground under the
canopy with a thin layer of black material, maybe crushed
lava rock, to maximize the absorption of solar radiation.
Similarly, engineering advances that could bring down the
cost of the two main structural components, the central
tower and the huge glass-covered canopy, would also
improve its cost competitiveness.
The Solar Tower is about as green as you can get. It
generates no waste or pollution. It is safe. People can
work under the canopy since the wind speeds it generates
are less than about 30 mph. And of course, it uses no
fossil fuels. It also continues to generate electricity
at night, at reduced output, because the soil that is
heated during the daytime continues to release its heat
to the air at night.
From what I have been able to determine, the U.S.
government is not currently funding research into solar
towers. (Or, if it is, it has been a well kept secret).
If the current administration would like to enhance its
green credentials, maybe it is time to spearhead a major
solar tower research initiative here in the United
States. The first one built would be a source of national
pride, and a tourist attraction, to boot. This is the
first solar power technology I have personally been
excited about, and I have a feeling that it will
eventually be a major component of our energy generation
future. In combination with a future hydrogen fuel
technology, solar towers could eventually provide the
electricity needed to make hydrogen to fuel cars. Or,
battery powered cars could be charged directly.
We don't know if the Solar Tower is the answer, if
hydrogen will become workable or if there is some other,
new, yet undiscovered energy source that will provide
future generations' energy. What we do know is that we
won't find the answer unless we continue to fund research
and technology. Technology will eventually make all of
our energy cleaner -- fossil-fuel based and renewable.
Tech Central Station
http://www.techcentralstation.com/051605C.html
- - - - - - -
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:16:47 AM by aculeus
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded message
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
Hindu Holocaust Museum
http://www.mantra.com/holocaust
Hindu life, principles, spirituality and philosophy
http://www.hindu.org
http://www.hindunet.org
The truth about Islam and Muslims
http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate
The terrorist mission of Jesus stated in the Christian bible:
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not so send
peace, but a sword.
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
law.
"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
o Not for commercial use. Solely to be fairly used for the educational
purposes of research and open discussion. The contents of this post may not
have been authored by, and do not necessarily represent the opinion of the
poster. The contents are protected by copyright law and the exemption for
fair use of copyrighted works.
o If you send private e-mail to me, it will likely not be read,
considered or answered if it does not contain your full legal name, current
e-mail and postal addresses, and live-voice telephone number.
o Posted for information and discussion. Views expressed by others are
not necessarily those of the poster who may or may not have read the
article.
FAIR USE NOTICE: This article may contain copyrighted material the use of
which may or may not have been specifically authorized by the copyright
owner. This material is being made available in efforts to advance the
understanding of environmental, political, human rights, economic,
democratic, scientific, social, and cultural, etc., issues. It is believed
that this constitutes a 'fair use' of any such copyrighted material as
provided for in section 107 of the US Copyright Law. In accordance with
Title
17 U.S.C. Section 107, the material on this site is distributed without
profit to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving the
included
information for research, comment, discussion and educational purposes by
subscribing to USENET newsgroups or visiting web sites. For more information
go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml
If you wish to use copyrighted material from this article for purposes of
your own that go beyond 'fair use', you must obtain permission from the
copyright owner.
Since newsgroup posts are being removed
by forgery by one or more net terrorists,
this post may be reposted several times.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 08:42:56 PM |
|
|
Forwarded messages:
-To: aculeus
That's a lot of desert habitat to destroy for such a
small amount of electricity.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:25:25 AM by wolfpat
(dum vivimus, vivamus)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: aculeus
The Doc still rocks!
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:25:41 AM by P.O.E.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: aculeus
Israel's also worked on this concept - they call it the
SNAP project "Sneh Aero-Electric Power" for the bush that
burned but was not consumed from which G-d spoke to
Moses. The concept originated in 1973 with Philip
Carlson, an engineer at Lockheed.
http://www.geocities.com/odd_ball.geo/prueitt.html
The main problem at this point is economics. It ain't
cheap to build a 3,000-foot tall hollow tower.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:27:11 AM by mvpel
(Michael Pelletier)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 08:52:28 PM |
|
|
-To: wolfpat
And it would never be a target for terrorists.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:28:13 AM by massgopguy
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: P.O.E.
Down to the Nightclub ....bump-de-bump-de-bump
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:29:17 AM by csvset
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: aculeus
They're going to need a lot of
http://www.windex.com/i/tout_original_02.jpg
to keep this running. I bet a lot of birds will crash
into it. They'll also better hope the Aussie Air Force
doesn't go supersonic in the neighborhood.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:30:50 AM by JohnBovenmyer (I)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: aculeus
I don't suppose they tried to calculate the localized
effect of this 3000 ft. chimney pumping hot air into the
mid-level atmosphere. If this thing generated even small
rain showers, it will be pretty much useless. Perhaps
that is why they only appear to be designing it for the
desert.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:31:41 AM by The_Victor
(Doh!... stupid tagline)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-To: Fudd
They avoided the issue entirely.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:31:58 AM by steve8714
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 08:58:44 PM |
|
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Forwarded messages:
-To: Fudd
All that you've changed is the mechanism for harvesting
the energy.
The tower is inside a large glass dome which is not
evident from the picture. Presumably the air inside the
dome would be super-heated (as in a locked car) and more
productive than unsealed air.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:33:18 AM by aculeus
(Ceci n'est pas une tag line.)
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-To: Fudd
But you're still limited to collecting 100 watts per
square foot. All that you've changed is the mechanism for
harvesting the energy.
This is the Achilles' Heel of many of the "renewable"
energy systems. You can't beat Mother Nature. You're
limited by the intensity of the input energy source. When
the source is diffuse, you have to work that much harder
to gather enough of the incident energy to produce a
useful amount of power. That means more capital and
maintenance costs. Sure, you've got a "free" source of
fuel, that you pay through the nose to collect.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:33:39 AM by chimera
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-To: Fudd
But you're still limited to collecting 100 watts per
square foot. All that you've changed is the mechanism for
harvesting the energy.
Maybe not ... you've probably reduced (somewhat) the
energy overhead inherent in solar arrays, and such.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:43:04 AM by r9etb
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-To: aculeus; r9etb
Presumably the air inside the dome would be super-heated
(as in a locked car) and more productive than unsealed
air.
The system is open - air enters in along the perimeter of
the system, is heated by the solar input, and exits
through the chimney. Energy is harvested by an air
turbine in the chimney.
There are three rules of thermodynamics: (1) You can't
win; (2) You can't break even; (3) You can't get out of
the game. If the sun provides only 100 watt per square
foot (which is right), you aren't going to get more than
that out of a solar-powered energy collector, regardless
of the design (rule 1).
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:47:54 AM by Fudd
(I'm the only one in this room qualified to handle a
Glock foe-ty....)
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-To: aculeus
Hey, if it works, GREAT! I have my doubts of course, but
I'm hopeful. It makes sense to try these things out, so
long as you don't get too enviro-stupid about things. If
it can make economic sense in the overall strategic
picture of the modern world, then go for it.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:50:04 AM by Paradox
(In my heart, I will always be something of a Liberal,
in my head, a Conservative. Head wins.)
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-To: aculeus
The Solar Tower is about as green as you can get. It
generates no waste or pollution
It will also be a Terrorist Magnet.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:52:25 AM by Lazamataz
(Not Elected Pope Since 4/19/2005.)
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-To: aculeus
Yet another low-energy-density scheme. The thermodynamic
laws don't allow efficient conversion of one type of
energy to another at low gradients.
So you go from sunlight, to heating a substrate and air,
the substrate heats the air, the air rises against
gravity, is converted to rotary motion, then to
electricity.
But, you will have a huge area in which you can regulate
weather pretty precicely since you control vertical
convection, energy input, and eliminate rain (what will
be the weight of a one inch rainstorm on the canopy?). In
fact, you MUST regulate the weather under the canopy if
it is to be useful space and not a gigantic artificial
desert.
There are commercial spinoffs here, like agriculture of
crops that would not normally live in that area. And you
could use up all of the tower's power to run the farms
and the shopping mall and twelve pro soccer fields that
would fit under the canopy.
If your insurance lets you, you could have people pay for
BASE jumping and glider launches from almost six-tenths
of a mile up. Imagine spiraling around and catching the
updraft from the column in your glider? Weeeeee!
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:52:36 AM by DBrow
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-To: Fudd
There you go, spoiling a perfectly good Green Dream with
a lot of physical science and laws of physics. Its guys
like you that put Algore out of his rightful leadership
role in our energy future.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:53:49 AM by Eric in the Ozarks
(***** that Glock !)
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-To: massgopguy
oh certainly - I was waiting for that one ...lol
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:53:54 AM by patience+plumpudding
(All fun and games until somebody loses an eye)
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End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 09:09:16 PM |
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Forwarded messages:
-To: aculeus
I read of this concept many years back, in a sci-fi
story..
Or one like it..
I think the "tower" was much taller, and made of some
sort of flexible "fabric" tube... It was borne aloft by
baloons..
The temperature and air pressure difference was supposed
to be sufficient to create a "vortex" that not only
powered the contained wind generators, but helped to
stiffen the "tube" keeping it erect through air
pressure..
Of course, this could just be a fantasy brought on by
fears of impotence..
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:55:28 AM by Drammach
(Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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-To: Eric in the Ozarks
what we need is fusion. Let's get rid of the oil wars.
Posted on 5/16/2005 6:59:07 AM by patience+plumpudding
(All fun and games until somebody loses an eye)
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-To: Drammach
let's erect one of these in teddy or kerry's backyard and
see how it does!
Posted on 5/16/2005 7:00:22 AM by Jazzman1
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-To: aculeus
It still will not displace oil! Oil is used for
transportation and all the solar towers in the world will
not allow it to move cars. And don't give me the baloney
about electric cars, the storage system to make it
competetive with a gasoline/diesel engine does not exist.
And how are you gonna crack water with a solar tower in
the desert?
The technology is neat, but I will bet that it works out
economically just like all other solar systems.....a
horribly expensive way to generate electricity.
Availability will be 50%-60% at most, compared to 90%+
compared to hydro, coal and nuclear generation.
Posted on 5/16/2005 7:00:54 AM by nuke rocketeer
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End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 09:18:12 PM |
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Forwarded messages:
-To: aculeus
We don't know if the Solar Tower is the answer. . .
Yes, we do. It isn't.
Posted on 5/16/2005 7:05:05 AM by William Terrell
(Individuals can exist without government but
government can't exist without individuals.)
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-To: Fudd
Ssssshhhh, don't bring science into an environmental
discussion!
Posted on 5/16/2005 7:06:04 AM by Straight Vermonter
(Proud parent of Vermont's 6th grade state chess
champion.)
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-To: aculeus
Point of information: insolation is a heck of a lot
greater than the "100 W" the author uses to disparage
solar power.
View graphic chart here:
http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/images/insolationchart.GIF
Posted on 5/16/2005 7:24:11 AM by Kretek
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End of forwarded messages
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
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| User: "Raivein" |
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| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 09:14:43 PM |
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http://www.enviromission.com.au/index1.htm
In the desert, especially the central regions of Australia, there is no
water. Imagine a wet, warm pacific breeze moving westwards towards
Australia. The eastern mountain ranges make all the water fall as rain
on the eastern side of Australia ( Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Great
Barrier Reef, Gold Coast). As the winds blow west, they gradually dry
out as they pass over the interior. By the time you reach Perth, on
the West Coast, the city recieves a wind that is for all practical
purposes baked.
While Australia probably will be turning up new undiscovered species
for the next 100 years, the fact that it has som many rare, endangered
species is balanced in that Australian have already wasted their land
by sheep grazing. Continental domestic animals do not belong in what
has to be the least valuable/sq km continent in the world (minerals,
biosphere, human development).
It might be for the best if we killed off the sheep and replaced it
with the occasional solar tower. If the tower did cause precipitation,
it makes a compelling argument for using the towers as a nursury of
sort for plant and animal species. If the station workers liked the
outdoors, we might not even have to make a workers village for them.
Self-contained power plant/natural park community.
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| User: "Baruchspinoza" |
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| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
28 Jun 2005 11:43:11 PM |
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"Raivein" <Raivein@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1120011283.119128.258760@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.enviromission.com.au/index1.htm
In the desert, especially the central regions of Australia, there is no
water. Imagine a wet, warm pacific breeze moving westwards towards
Australia. The eastern mountain ranges make all the water fall as rain
on the eastern side of Australia ( Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne, Great
Barrier Reef, Gold Coast). As the winds blow west, they gradually dry
out as they pass over the interior. By the time you reach Perth, on
the West Coast, the city recieves a wind that is for all practical
purposes baked.
While Australia probably will be turning up new undiscovered species
for the next 100 years, the fact that it has som many rare, endangered
species is balanced in that Australian have already wasted their land
by sheep grazing. Continental domestic animals do not belong in what
has to be the least valuable/sq km continent in the world (minerals,
biosphere, human development).
It might be for the best if we killed off the sheep and replaced it
with the occasional solar tower. If the tower did cause precipitation,
it makes a compelling argument for using the towers as a nursury of
sort for plant and animal species. If the station workers liked the
outdoors, we might not even have to make a workers village for them.
Self-contained power plant/natural park community.
yea, use them to make Beeer..............
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| User: "Fred McGalliard" |
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| Title: Re: SOLAR TOWER OF POWER |
29 Jun 2005 10:17:24 AM |
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"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:teAWO3220eRPYA@XvaIn...
....
That's a lot of desert habitat to destroy for such a
small amount of electricity.
Yeah, but it only displaces 20 horned toads, 3 road runners and a saguaro
cactus.
#! rnews 1086
Xref: xyzzy sci.energy:133590
Newsgroups: sci.energy
Path: xyzzy!nntp
From: "Fred McGalliard" <frederick.b.mcgalliard@boeing.com>
Subject: Re: Satellite Dish Engery
X-Nntp-Posting-Host: e056750.nw.nos.boeing.com
Message-ID: <IIuqn7.Bsv@news.boeing.com>
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References: <1119996913.857430.207010@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> <3ie3q3FkpdaoU1@individual.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 15:21:07 GMT
"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3ie3q3FkpdaoU1@individual.net...
....
I could well be talking out a my backside, but I'm pretty certain that the
principle of focusing the sun's rays from concave mirrors on to boilers to
generate electricity, has been something that's been done for donkey's
years.
As I recall, around 200 years ago, a steam engine was powered this way for
some kind of show in England I think.
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