| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
07 Feb 2006 03:14:16 AM |
| Object: |
solutions to Penrose's Road to Reality |
Hi,
I've finally started reading the Road to Reality. It's delightful, but
I find I'm having difficulties with many of the problems, of course w/
the hard ones, but also with many of the easy and medium ones. Is
there anywhere on the web where solutions are/can be posted by
interested readers. For a start, I scratched my head for hours the
other night trying to figure out why the projective map of a circle on
a sphere necessarily yields a circle on a disk, and why this mapping
preserves angles. I'm sure I could solve it w/ plug and chug using
coordinates, but Penrose's hint suggests a simpler, more elegant
solution. Anyone know the answer?
thanks,
doris
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
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| Title: Re: solutions to Penrose's Road to Reality |
07 Feb 2006 02:40:55 PM |
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<tsao.doris@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1139303656.700012.130780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Hi,
I've finally started reading the Road to Reality. It's delightful, but
I find I'm having difficulties with many of the problems, of course w/
the hard ones, but also with many of the easy and medium ones. Is
there anywhere on the web where solutions are/can be posted by
interested readers. For a start, I scratched my head for hours the
other night trying to figure out why the projective map of a circle on
a sphere necessarily yields a circle on a disk, and why this mapping
preserves angles. I'm sure I could solve it w/ plug and chug using
coordinates, but Penrose's hint suggests a simpler, more elegant
solution. Anyone know the answer?
thanks,
doris
[added newsgroup sci.math]
It's a good thing that Penrose hasn't published the solutions yet.
That makes us work :-)
I have chosen to go analytic.
1) Preservation of circles:
Since a circle on the sphere must lie in some plane, an arbitrary
point (x,y,z) on the circle must satisfy the equations:
x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = 1
a x + b y + c z = d
for some suitable numbers a, b, c, d
Supposing the projected point has coordinates (X,Y,Z), we can
express the fact that (X,Y,Z) must lie on the line through
(x,y,z) and (0,0,-1) and on the equatorial plane Z = 0, by
stating that there is a number k such that
(X,Y,0) = (0,0,-1) + k [ (x,y,z) - (0,0,-1) ]
which gives, when solved for (x,y,z):
( x, y, z ) = ( X/k, Y/k, 1/k-1 ) .
So we know that the coordinates (X,Y) must satisfy the equations
X^2/k^2 + Y^2/k^2 + (1/k-1)^2 = 1
a X/k + b Y/k + c (1/k-1) = d .
Solving the first equation for k gives
k = 1/2 (X^2 + Y^2 + 1)
which gives when inserted into the second and rearranged
(c+d) X^2 + (c+d) Y^2 - 2 a X - 2 b Y - c + d = 0
which describes a circle in the X-Y plane.
2) To prove the preservation of angles, note that angles between lines
on the sphere are defined by great circles, and therefore by planes
through the origin (0,0,0).
So we can imagine two planes
a x + b y + c z = 0
a' x + b' y + c' z = 0
where we have normalized coefficients
a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 1
a'^2 + b'^2 + c'^2 = 1
The dot-product of the normal unit vectors to the planes is then
given by
D1 = a a' + b b' + c c'
As we have seen before, these circles are projected to circles in
the X-Y plane:
c X^2 + c Y^2 - 2 a X - 2 b Y - c = 0
c' X^2 + c' Y^2 - 2 a' X - 2 b' Y - c' = 0
which, provided c # 0 and c' # 0, can be rearranged to
(X-a/c)^2 + (Y-b/c)^2 = 1/c^2
(X-a'/c')^2 + (Y-b'/c')^2 = 1/c'^2
which are circles with resp. centres (a/c,b/c) and (a'/c',b'/c') and radii
1/c and 1/c'.
The dot-product of the tangent unit vectors to the circles in a common
point is given by the dot-product of the normal (radial) unit vectors in
that common point. Supposing that (p,q) is a common point, we have
the normalized direction vectors
( (p-a/c)/(1/c), (q-b/c)/(1/c) )
( (p-a'/c')/(1/c'), (q-b'/c')/(1/c') )
or, shorter:
( c p - a, c q - b )
( c' p - a', c' q - b' ).
This result is also valid for the cases c=0 or c'=0 in which case a
circle degenerates to a straight line.
The dot-product of these vectors is
D2 = ( c p - a ) ( c' p - a' ) + ( c q - b ) ( c' q - b' )
which gives
D2 = c c' p^2 -(a c' + a' c) p + a a' + c c' q^2 - (b c' + b' c) q + b b' .
Since the point (p,q) is on both circles, we also have
(c p-a)^2 + (c q-b)^2 = 1
(c' p-a')^2 + (c' q-b')^2 = 1 ,
which can be written as
c p^2 - 2 a p + c q^2 - 2 b q - c = 0
c' p^2 - 2 a' p + c' q^2 - 2 b' q - c' = 0
which give after multiplying with c' resp c, adding and dividing by 2:
c c' p^2 -(a c' + a' c) p + c c' q^2 - (b c' + b' c) q = c c'.
Inserting the LHS of this equation into the expression for D2 gives
D2 = a a' + b b' + c c'
which proves that the dot-product and therefore the angle is preserved:
D1 = D2
I'm sure that the geometric proofs will be more elegant :-)
Dirk Vdm
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: solutions to Penrose's Road to Reality |
26 Feb 2006 03:26:26 PM |
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Hi Dirk,
Thanks for your solution. I don't understand your statement "angles
between lines on a sphere are defined by great circles". I can see
that it makes the computations w/ angle much simpler to drop the d's,
but I don't
see why you are allowed to do that. It seems you can have circles on a
sphere that are not great circles, and the angle between them remains
well-defined, as the dihedral angle between the planes containing the
circles.
Can you explain?
thanks!
Doris
(....One thing that makes it hard to rigorously follow the Penrose book
is that unlike a usual textbook, he does not define all the terms, so,
e.g., you have to guess at definitions, e.g., here, "angles on a
sphere")
Dirk Van de moortel schrieb:
<tsao.doris@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1139303656.700012.130780@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Hi,
I've finally started reading the Road to Reality. It's delightful, but
I find I'm having difficulties with many of the problems, of course w/
the hard ones, but also with many of the easy and medium ones. Is
there anywhere on the web where solutions are/can be posted by
interested readers. For a start, I scratched my head for hours the
other night trying to figure out why the projective map of a circle on
a sphere necessarily yields a circle on a disk, and why this mapping
preserves angles. I'm sure I could solve it w/ plug and chug using
coordinates, but Penrose's hint suggests a simpler, more elegant
solution. Anyone know the answer?
thanks,
doris
[added newsgroup sci.math]
It's a good thing that Penrose hasn't published the solutions yet.
That makes us work :-)
I have chosen to go analytic.
1) Preservation of circles:
Since a circle on the sphere must lie in some plane, an arbitrary
point (x,y,z) on the circle must satisfy the equations:
x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = 1
a x + b y + c z = d
for some suitable numbers a, b, c, d
Supposing the projected point has coordinates (X,Y,Z), we can
express the fact that (X,Y,Z) must lie on the line through
(x,y,z) and (0,0,-1) and on the equatorial plane Z = 0, by
stating that there is a number k such that
(X,Y,0) = (0,0,-1) + k [ (x,y,z) - (0,0,-1) ]
which gives, when solved for (x,y,z):
( x, y, z ) = ( X/k, Y/k, 1/k-1 ) .
So we know that the coordinates (X,Y) must satisfy the equations
X^2/k^2 + Y^2/k^2 + (1/k-1)^2 = 1
a X/k + b Y/k + c (1/k-1) = d .
Solving the first equation for k gives
k = 1/2 (X^2 + Y^2 + 1)
which gives when inserted into the second and rearranged
(c+d) X^2 + (c+d) Y^2 - 2 a X - 2 b Y - c + d = 0
which describes a circle in the X-Y plane.
2) To prove the preservation of angles, note that angles between lines
on the sphere are defined by great circles, and therefore by planes
through the origin (0,0,0).
So we can imagine two planes
a x + b y + c z = 0
a' x + b' y + c' z = 0
where we have normalized coefficients
a^2 + b^2 + c^2 = 1
a'^2 + b'^2 + c'^2 = 1
The dot-product of the normal unit vectors to the planes is then
given by
D1 = a a' + b b' + c c'
As we have seen before, these circles are projected to circles in
the X-Y plane:
c X^2 + c Y^2 - 2 a X - 2 b Y - c = 0
c' X^2 + c' Y^2 - 2 a' X - 2 b' Y - c' = 0
which, provided c # 0 and c' # 0, can be rearranged to
(X-a/c)^2 + (Y-b/c)^2 = 1/c^2
(X-a'/c')^2 + (Y-b'/c')^2 = 1/c'^2
which are circles with resp. centres (a/c,b/c) and (a'/c',b'/c') and radii
1/c and 1/c'.
The dot-product of the tangent unit vectors to the circles in a common
point is given by the dot-product of the normal (radial) unit vectors in
that common point. Supposing that (p,q) is a common point, we have
the normalized direction vectors
( (p-a/c)/(1/c), (q-b/c)/(1/c) )
( (p-a'/c')/(1/c'), (q-b'/c')/(1/c') )
or, shorter:
( c p - a, c q - b )
( c' p - a', c' q - b' ).
This result is also valid for the cases c=0 or c'=0 in which case a
circle degenerates to a straight line.
The dot-product of these vectors is
D2 = ( c p - a ) ( c' p - a' ) + ( c q - b ) ( c' q - b' )
which gives
D2 = c c' p^2 -(a c' + a' c) p + a a' + c c' q^2 - (b c' + b' c) q + b b' .
Since the point (p,q) is on both circles, we also have
(c p-a)^2 + (c q-b)^2 = 1
(c' p-a')^2 + (c' q-b')^2 = 1 ,
which can be written as
c p^2 - 2 a p + c q^2 - 2 b q - c = 0
c' p^2 - 2 a' p + c' q^2 - 2 b' q - c' = 0
which give after multiplying with c' resp c, adding and dividing by 2:
c c' p^2 -(a c' + a' c) p + c c' q^2 - (b c' + b' c) q = c c'.
Inserting the LHS of this equation into the expression for D2 gives
D2 = a a' + b b' + c c'
which proves that the dot-product and therefore the angle is preserved:
D1 = D2
I'm sure that the geometric proofs will be more elegant :-)
Dirk Vdm
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
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| Title: Re: solutions to Penrose's Road to Reality |
26 Feb 2006 04:30:27 PM |
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<tsao.doris@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1140989185.987136.154600@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Hi Dirk,
Thanks for your solution. I don't understand your statement "angles
between lines on a sphere are defined by great circles". I can see
that it makes the computations w/ angle much simpler to drop the d's,
but I don't
see why you are allowed to do that. It seems you can have circles on a
sphere that are not great circles, and the angle between them remains
well-defined, as the dihedral angle between the planes containing the
circles.
Can you explain?
An angle at a point is defined by two continuous lines through the
point. If the lines are curved, you can take the tangents and calculate
the angle between them. The lenght of the lines does not matter of
course - an angle is a local property. If it weren't, we would have
a much harder time proving that angles are preserved.
On a curved surface, arbitrary curves play the role of continuous
lines, and tangent geodesic lines play the role of tangents in the point.
On a sphere the tangent geodesics (or geodeTic lines on Earth) are
great circles.
Like you say, you can indeed have circles on a sphere that are not
great circles, but in any point your non-circles can be approximated
by its tangent great circles. The angle between your two non-circles
(or arbitrary continuous lines) is the same (or, if you like, even defined)
as the angle between the two tangent great circles in that point. Think
"osculating curves".
thanks!
Doris
I'm not used to think about or explain this stuff in English, and
perhaps the jargon isn't what it should be. Sorry for that.
(....One thing that makes it hard to rigorously follow the Penrose book
is that unlike a usual textbook, he does not define all the terms, so,
e.g., you have to guess at definitions, e.g., here, "angles on a
sphere")
Indeed, the book makes you work real hard. Like you just did,
one has to use all the external resources one can find. That's what
makes it so very valuable, i.m.o.
At this pace, reading other technical stuff and novels as well, I'm
sure it will take me well over a year to work through it. But I'm in
no hurry - quite on the contrary :-)
Enjoy,
Dirk Vdm
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: solutions to Penrose's Road to Reality |
07 Feb 2006 11:35:34 AM |
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Coming in November, he says.
http://www.roadsolutions.ox.ac.uk/
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