| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"p6" |
| Date: |
16 Jun 2005 12:19:41 AM |
| Object: |
Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/
Sonoluminescence is one of physics greatest mysteries. Anyone
can offer insights or attempt some solutions (especially
those creative alternative atomic modelers... take note this
is one tests of your model to see if it holds up to reality)?
p6
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| User: "Zigoteau" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
16 Jun 2005 03:00:42 AM |
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Hi, 6,
http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/
Sonoluminescence is one of physics greatest mysteries. Anyone
can offer insights or attempt some solutions (especially
those creative alternative atomic modelers... take note this
is one tests of your model to see if it holds up to reality)?
Thanks for the link. The link down at the bottom of that page to the
paper claiming the ultrahigh temperatures is especially useful:
http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/sonolum_paper.html
It reveals the logic of the calculation of the ultrahigh temperatures,
which assumes that the light emission is thermal, complying with
Stefan's law. According to that logic, the fluorescent light in my
kitchen is hot enough to melt its glass tube. The light-emitting diode
on the front panel of the radio sitting on the fridge doesn't bear
thinking about! Truly mysterious, and truly amazing!
Well they do say, if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
Cheers,
Zigoteau.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
16 Jun 2005 01:34:42 PM |
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p6 wrote:
http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/
Sonoluminescence is one of physics greatest mysteries.
No. At best it is mild amusing.
Anyone
can offer insights or attempt some solutions (especially
those creative alternative atomic modelers... take note this
is one tests of your model to see if it holds up to reality)?
Ken Suslick buzzing argon in concentrated sulfuric acid. Look it up.
Nobody is about to power the world by buzzing deuterium in D2SO4.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Zigoteau" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
22 Jun 2005 05:06:08 AM |
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Hi, Uncle Al,
Ken Suslick buzzing argon in concentrated sulfuric acid. Look it up.
Nobody is about to power the world by buzzing deuterium in D2SO4.
I think this all makes a very consistent story. The coherent collapse
of microbubbles does concentrate a certain amount of energy on the
molecules right at the centre, but the energy involved per molecule is
of the order of 10 eV, and the number of molecules involved is around
1000. In order to get a reasonable probability of fusion between bare
protons, IIRC you need to bring them to within ~100fm of each other, at
which separation the electrostatic potential energy is of the order of
10 keV. Electrons in the vicinity can shield the repulsion a bit, but
the HUP means that it stops far short of what is required for efficient
fusion. Which is rather a good thing, really.
Do you have any idea how Ken Suslick manages to get his papers
published in the best journals? The one on sonoluminescence in D2SO4 is
not too bad, but he has had two papers published on vapor sensing using
porphyrins which are essentially purely anecdotal, with no
quantification at all, just pretty pictures, and no references to work
by any other group. Does he know where someone's skeletons are hidden?
You don't have to answer that unless your lawyer is offering you a bulk
discount.
Cheers,
Zigoteau.
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| User: "Maarten van Reeuwijk" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
30 Jun 2005 09:49:20 AM |
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p6 wrote:
http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/
Sonoluminescence is one of physics greatest mysteries. Anyone
can offer insights or attempt some solutions (especially
those creative alternative atomic modelers... take note this
is one tests of your model to see if it holds up to reality)?
p6
I believe the standing explanation is given in
SASCHA HILGENFELDT*, SIEGFRIED GROSSMANN & DETLEF LOHSE
Nature 398, 402 - 405 (01 April 1999); doi:10.1038/18842
abstract:
Ultrasonically driven gas bubbles in liquids can emit intense bursts of
light when they collapse. The physical mechanism for single-bubble
sonoluminescence has been much debated,. The conditions required for, and
generated by, bubble collapse can be deduced within the framework of a
hydrodynamic (Rayleigh-Plesset) analysis of bubble dynamics and stability,,
and by considering the dissociation and outward diffusion of gases under
the extreme conditions induced by collapse,. We show here that by extending
this hydrodynamic/chemical picture in a simple way, the light emission can
be explained too. The additional elements that we add are a model for the
volume dependence of the bubble's temperature, and allowance for the small
emissivity of a weakly ionized gas. Despite its simplicity, our approach
can account quantitatively for the observed parameter dependences of the
light intensity and pulse width, as well as for the spectral shape and
wavelength independence of the pulses.
HTH
Maarten
--
===================================================================
Maarten van Reeuwijk dept. of Multiscale Physics
Phd student Faculty of Applied Sciences
maarten.ws.tn.tudelft.nl Delft University of Technology
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| User: "Raymond Yohros" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
16 Jun 2005 04:58:47 PM |
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p6 wrote:
http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/
Sonoluminescence is one of physics greatest mysteries. Anyone
can offer insights or attempt some solutions (especially
those creative alternative atomic modelers... take note this
is one tests of your model to see if it holds up to reality)?
p6
I remeber a few years ago i wanted to buy one of the kits
to do the experiment.it is cheap considering what it does.
the effect happens between 20 khz and the ultrasound range.
but have they use sinusoidal waves only?
have they done amplitude modulation, frequency modulation
with saw,SQUARE,triange and sine functions and also
shifting and transforming the pulse with trigered operators?
regards
raymond
www.sonofsound.com
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| User: "Rene Tschaggelar" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
17 Jun 2005 03:49:07 AM |
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Raymond Yohros wrote:
I remeber a few years ago i wanted to buy one of the kits
to do the experiment.it is cheap considering what it does.
the effect happens between 20 khz and the ultrasound range.
but have they use sinusoidal waves only?
have they done amplitude modulation, frequency modulation
with saw,SQUARE,triange and sine functions and also
shifting and transforming the pulse with trigered operators?
What the function generator can produce is one thing
and what kind of soundwave the piezos emit is quite
another. I do personally know physicists that are proud
for their 2MHz highvoltage amplifier but have some
difficulties to grasp that the fullpower bandwidth
onto a piezo is a mere 1kHz
Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
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| User: "p6" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
16 Jun 2005 05:17:47 PM |
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Raymond Yohros wrote:
p6 wrote:
http://www-phys.llnl.gov/N_Div/sonolum/
Sonoluminescence is one of physics greatest mysteries. Anyone
can offer insights or attempt some solutions (especially
those creative alternative atomic modelers... take note this
is one tests of your model to see if it holds up to reality)?
p6
I remeber a few years ago i wanted to buy one of the kits
to do the experiment.it is cheap considering what it does.
the effect happens between 20 khz and the ultrasound range.
but have they use sinusoidal waves only?
have they done amplitude modulation, frequency modulation
with saw,SQUARE,triange and sine functions and also
shifting and transforming the pulse with trigered operators?
regards
raymond
www.sonofsound.com
It's nice to repeat the experiments. I wonder if one can
see the light directly in a darkened room. I have a
function generator that can produce all those waveforms.
But I still don't have the acoustic amplifier that can
increase the current. I'm looking for one with a
frequency response of 1 hz to 100 khz. Most amplifier
only has 20-20khz and that's for use in audio.
There's this article in Sci-Am about 10 years ago. I
wonder if anyone got any link to it.
Can one use the concept in a complex setup to produce
fusion and build a home made hydrogen bomb. I wonder
if Al Qaeda is doing sonoluminescence research.
p6
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| User: "Raymond Yohros" |
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| Title: Re: Sonoluminescence - anyone got an answer? |
17 Jun 2005 04:11:14 PM |
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Can one use the concept in a complex setup to produce
fusion and build a home made hydrogen bomb. I wonder
if Al Qaeda is doing sonoluminescence research.
Thank G-D there's not a chance for anyone at all
to do any harm with sonoluminescence.
does anybody know if there's a chance to absorb
and store the energy from the bubbles?
regards
raymond
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