Spcae Radio Question



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Radium"
Date: 28 May 2007 11:27:22 AM
Object: Spcae Radio Question
Hi:
Let's say I am in a space station which has a supercooled 150 KHz DX
analog receiver that receives the magnetic fields [while ignoring the
electric fields] of extremely weak 150 KHz AM analog carrier signals.
In addition, this receiver is so sensitive and powerful that it can
clearly pick up AM carrier waves as weak as 10^-10,000 watt [i.e. 10-
to-the-power-NEGATIVE-10,000 watt]. Also, this receiver has an
astronomically-powerful amplifier which amplifies the extremely-soft
carrier waves until the resulting modulation signals will be just loud
enough for the human ear to detect. Following this amplification, the
carrier waves are demodulation to modulation waves - the stuff we
"hear" - and then sent to loudspeaker so those onboard can hear those
sounds. In addition, all the audio devices filter out modulation
signals that are below 20 Hz or above 20 KHz [after reception, before/
after amplification and demodulation], as the human ear only responds
to 20-20,000 Hz.
If I am on this spaceship, what will I hear on the radio? My guess is
that I would hear long-distance magnetic disruptions. Would these
magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?
Thanks,
Radium
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 12:55:02 PM
In sci.physics.electromag Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi:
Let's say I am in a space station...

At which point you would be thrown out the nearest airlock for being
a babbling, annoying, idiot.
<snip mindless crap>
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
.

User: "H. Wabnig .... .-- .- -... -. .. --. @ .- --- -. DOT .- -"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 12:36:26 PM
On 28 May 2007 09:27:22 -0700, Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi:

Let's say I am in a space station which has a supercooled 150 KHz DX
analog receiver that receives the magnetic fields [while ignoring the
electric fields] of extremely weak 150 KHz AM analog carrier signals.
In addition, this receiver is so sensitive and powerful that it can
clearly pick up AM carrier waves as weak as 10^-10,000 watt [i.e. 10-
to-the-power-NEGATIVE-10,000 watt]. Also, this receiver has an
astronomically-powerful amplifier which amplifies the extremely-soft
carrier waves until the resulting modulation signals will be just loud
enough for the human ear to detect. Following this amplification, the
carrier waves are demodulation to modulation waves - the stuff we
"hear" - and then sent to loudspeaker so those onboard can hear those
sounds. In addition, all the audio devices filter out modulation
signals that are below 20 Hz or above 20 KHz [after reception, before/
after amplification and demodulation], as the human ear only responds
to 20-20,000 Hz.

An OLD FART which you are, will hear only from 40 to 8000 Hz.


If I am on this spaceship, what will I hear on the radio? My guess is
that I would hear long-distance magnetic disruptions. Would these
magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?

So, what is your question?
w.
.
User: "Radium"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 12:46:29 PM
On May 28, 10:36 am, H. Wabnig <.... .-- .- -... -. .. --.
@ .- --- -. DOT .- -> wrote:

So, what is your question?

My question:
If I am on the spaceship [described in the 1st message of this
thread], what will I hear on the radio? My guess is that I would hear
long-distance magnetic disruptions. Is my guess right? If so, would
these magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?
.
User: "H. Wabnig .... .-- .- -... -. .. --. @ .- --- -. DOT .- -"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 01:22:26 PM
On 28 May 2007 10:46:29 -0700, Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:

On May 28, 10:36 am, H. Wabnig <.... .-- .- -... -. .. --.
@ .- --- -. DOT .- -> wrote:

So, what is your question?


My question:

If I am on the spaceship [described in the 1st message of this
thread], what will I hear on the radio? My guess is that I would hear
long-distance magnetic disruptions. Is my guess right? If so, would
these magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?

How do the high-pitched, terrifying heterodynes, that resemble the
sine-waves tones of the Emergency Broadcasting System, sound?
Post an MP3 somewhere, would you?
w.
.

User: "Michael A. Terrell"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 01:36:51 AM
Radium wrote:


On May 28, 10:36 am, H. Wabnig <.... .-- .- -... -. .. --.
@ .- --- -. DOT .- -> wrote:

So, what is your question?


My question:

If I am on the spaceship [described in the 1st message of this
thread], what will I hear on the radio? My guess is that I would hear
long-distance magnetic disruptions. Is my guess right? If so, would
these magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?

There is no "Emergency Broadcasting System", Troll.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
.

User: "TimPerry"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 01:30:25 PM
Radium wrote:

On May 28, 10:36 am, H. Wabnig <.... .-- .- -... -. .. --.
@ .- --- -. DOT .- -> wrote:

So, what is your question?


My question:

If I am on the spaceship [described in the 1st message of this
thread], what will I hear on the radio?

hopefully on of my companys stations. ya like country music?
My guess is that I would hear

long-distance magnetic disruptions. Is my guess right? If so, would
these magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?

EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.
"high-pitched, terrifying heterodynes" could be some types of bluegrass
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 02:23:10 PM
In sci.physics, TimPerry
<timperry@noaspama.net>
wrote
on Mon, 28 May 2007 14:30:25 -0400
<465b1f92$0$4878$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:

Radium wrote:

On May 28, 10:36 am, H. Wabnig <.... .-- .- -... -. .. --.
@ .- --- -. DOT .- -> wrote:

So, what is your question?


My question:

If I am on the spaceship [described in the 1st message of this
thread], what will I hear on the radio?


hopefully on of my companys stations. ya like country music?


My guess is that I would hear

long-distance magnetic disruptions. Is my guess right? If so, would
these magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?


EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.

Yes; now we use something else that sounds even worse. :-)
The current sounds remind me of some sort of low-speed
modem, as opposed to the two-toned whine used previously,
which sounded like a mutated dial tone.
"Hello, God calling. An act of God has just commenced.
Thank you. *click*" :-)


"high-pitched, terrifying heterodynes" could be some types of bluegrass

Or even a band name.
--
#191,

Error 16: Not enough space on file system to delete file(s)
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
User: "Michael A. Terrell"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 01:40:54 AM
The Ghost In The Machine wrote:


Yes; now we use something else that sounds even worse. :-)
The current sounds remind me of some sort of low-speed
modem, as opposed to the two-toned whine used previously,
which sounded like a mutated dial tone.

That is EXACTLY what it is. An oddball, low baud rate modem. It was
done that way to make it addressable, and to keep it from being tampered
with by hackers or terrorists.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 30 May 2007 01:27:53 AM
In sci.physics, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net>
wrote
on Tue, 29 May 2007 06:40:54 GMT
<465BCB0E.4B58C639@earthlink.net>:

The Ghost In The Machine wrote:


Yes; now we use something else that sounds even worse. :-)
The current sounds remind me of some sort of low-speed
modem, as opposed to the two-toned whine used previously,
which sounded like a mutated dial tone.



That is EXACTLY what it is. An oddball, low baud rate modem. It was
done that way to make it addressable, and to keep it from being tampered
with by hackers or terrorists.


I don't know about the tampering, but I laud the change, at
least as far as the tests I've heard go; the initialization
signal is followed by an explanation -- "the radio stations
in cooperation with the FCC, etc." -- then a termination
signal, three short oddly-modulated beeps, in the same
general tonal region as the three longer warbly beeps.
Presumably, a decoder can pick up the audio signal
between these two beeps -- which would during the test
be simply an explanation of what the system is (namely,
for emergency broadcasts), but during a real emergency be
instructions that could be stored and then forwarded.
I don't have said decoder but I do have my ears. :-)
The older dual-tone did not have a "termination signal"
as such, which means one either has to shut off the radio
manually, or time out. Both are problematic.
--
#191,

Linux. Because it's there and it works.
Windows. It's there, but does it work?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
User: "TimPerry"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 30 May 2007 08:06:00 PM
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:94ivi4-l76.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...

In sci.physics, Michael A. Terrell
<mike.terrell@earthlink.net>
wrote
on Tue, 29 May 2007 06:40:54 GMT
<465BCB0E.4B58C639@earthlink.net>:

The Ghost In The Machine wrote:


Yes; now we use something else that sounds even worse. :-)
The current sounds remind me of some sort of low-speed
modem, as opposed to the two-toned whine used previously,
which sounded like a mutated dial tone.



That is EXACTLY what it is. An oddball, low baud rate modem. It was
done that way to make it addressable, and to keep it from being tampered
with by hackers or terrorists.



I don't know about the tampering, but I laud the change, at
least as far as the tests I've heard go; the initialization
signal is followed by an explanation -- "the radio stations
in cooperation with the FCC, etc." -- then a termination
signal, three short oddly-modulated beeps, in the same
general tonal region as the three longer warbly beeps.

Presumably, a decoder can pick up the audio signal
between these two beeps -- which would during the test
be simply an explanation of what the system is (namely,
for emergency broadcasts), but during a real emergency be
instructions that could be stored and then forwarded.

I don't have said decoder but I do have my ears. :-)

The older dual-tone did not have a "termination signal"
as such, which means one either has to shut off the radio
manually, or time out. Both are problematic.

--
#191,


Linux. Because it's there and it works.
Windows. It's there, but does it work?

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

.

User: "TimPerry"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 30 May 2007 08:20:10 PM


That is EXACTLY what it is. An oddball, low baud rate modem. It
was done that way to make it addressable, and to keep it from being
tampered with by hackers or terrorists.

The old EBS system was entirely manual. A handful of stations went as far as
interfacing a record/playback device. the system broke down frequently when
a human failed to perform his/her function.
EAS is an attempt to automate the process. Humans can still interrupt the
process either by activating an abort function or by unplugging the ENDEC.




I don't know about the tampering, but I laud the change, at
least as far as the tests I've heard go; the initialization
signal is followed by an explanation -- "the radio stations
in cooperation with the FCC, etc." -- then a termination
signal, three short oddly-modulated beeps, in the same
general tonal region as the three longer warbly beeps.

Presumably, a decoder can pick up the audio signal
between these two beeps -- which would during the test
be simply an explanation of what the system is (namely,
for emergency broadcasts), but during a real emergency be
instructions that could be stored and then forwarded.

Unfortunately most if not all ENDECs only record one alert at a time. If not
sent before an additional alert happens the later audio overwrites the
earlier.
It is a weakness in the system which was initially intended to disseminate
national level crises information but is only used for local level
activations.


I don't have said decoder but I do have my ears. :-)

The older dual-tone did not have a "termination signal"
as such, which means one either has to shut off the radio
manually, or time out. Both are problematic.

.




User: "Radium"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 02:39:26 PM
On May 28, 11:30 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:

EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.

Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones. Then they play the high-pitched, terrifying,
psychedelic sine-wave tones I described. These high-frequency,
heterodyne-resembling tones are so mind-altering that they make my
eyes water. Yet I enjoy them. Things that are scary can also be
pleasurable at times. Why do you think they have roller-coasters?

"high-pitched, terrifying heterodynes" could be some types of bluegrass

What do you mean by "bluegrass"?
.
User: "Icky Thwacket"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 02:53:40 PM
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180381165.931499.282690@a26g2000pre.googlegroups.com...

On May 28, 11:30 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:

EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.


Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones. Then they play the high-pitched, terrifying,
psychedelic sine-wave tones I described. These high-frequency,
heterodyne-resembling tones are so mind-altering that they make my
eyes water. Yet I enjoy them. Things that are scary can also be
pleasurable at times. Why do you think they have roller-coasters?

"high-pitched, terrifying heterodynes" could be some types of bluegrass


What do you mean by "bluegrass"?

Alien space communication viewed on a blue phosphor oscilloscope.
.

User: "Michael A. Terrell"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 01:42:28 AM
Radium wrote:


On May 28, 11:30 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:

EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.


Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones. Then they play the high-pitched, terrifying,
psychedelic sine-wave tones I described. These high-frequency,
heterodyne-resembling tones are so mind-altering that they make my
eyes water. Yet I enjoy them. Things that are scary can also be
pleasurable at times. Why do you think they have roller-coasters?

"high-pitched, terrifying heterodynes" could be some types of bluegrass


What do you mean by "bluegrass"?

Lester Flatt & Earl Scruggs, dummy.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
.

User: "TimPerry"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 07:17:55 AM
Radium wrote:

On May 28, 11:30 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:

EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.


Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones.

you are perhaps referring to the Emergency Alert System (EAS).
after all, a pleasant sounding emergency sound wouldn't be very effective.
it's not really square waves either. look up AFSK (audio frequency shift
keying)

"high-pitched, terrifying heterodynes" could be some types of
bluegrass


What do you mean by "bluegrass"?

high pitched annoying heterodynes often created by makeshift instruments
such as washboards and spoons.
.
User: "Radium"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 12:05:40 PM
On May 29, 5:17 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:

Radium wrote:

On May 28, 11:30 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:


EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.


Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones.


you are perhaps referring to the Emergency Alert System (EAS).
after all, a pleasant sounding emergency sound wouldn't be very effective.
it's not really square waves either. look up AFSK (audio frequency shift
keying)

Yes. The EAS. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring
low-pitch tones. Then they play the high-pitched, terrifying sine-wave
tones I described.
BTW, I don't feel the first sound they play, to be indicative of any
emergency. That low-pitched sound simply doesn't provide the
frightening, eye-watering, psychedelic feeling the second high-pitched
sound does. The second sound puts me in a dissociative state.
You say the first sound uses AFSK. What does the second sound use?
.

User: "Radium"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 12:40:57 PM
On May 29, 5:17 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:

Radium wrote:

On May 28, 11:30 am, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:


EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.


Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones.


you are perhaps referring to the Emergency Alert System (EAS).
after all, a pleasant sounding emergency sound wouldn't be very effective.
it's not really square waves either. look up AFSK (audio frequency shift
keying)

Yes. The EAS. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring
low-pitch tones. Then they play the high-pitched, terrifying sine-wave
tones I described.
BTW, I don't feel the first sound they play, to be indicative of any
emergency. That low-pitched sound simply doesn't provide the
frightening, eye-watering, psychedelic feeling the second high-pitched
sound does. The second sound puts me in a dissociative state.
You say the first sound uses AFSK. What does the second sound use?
.
User: "TimPerry"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 07:31:56 PM


EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.


Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones.


you are perhaps referring to the Emergency Alert System (EAS).
after all, a pleasant sounding emergency sound wouldn't be very
effective. it's not really square waves either. look up AFSK (audio
frequency shift keying)


Yes. The EAS. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring
low-pitch tones.

think of then as duck farts... it wont seem so boring.

Then they play the high-pitched, terrifying sine-wave
tones I described.

BTW, I don't feel the first sound they play, to be indicative of any
emergency.

it might be only a test <g>

That low-pitched sound simply doesn't provide the
frightening, eye-watering, psychedelic feeling the second high-pitched
sound does. The second sound puts me in a dissociative state.

You say the first sound uses AFSK. What does the second sound use?

the 8 second 2 tone signal was manditory when the system was first
introduced. it now is optional. most do not use it, however relays from the
NWS sometimes have it.
.
User: "Radium"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 11:54:43 PM
On May 29, 5:31 pm, "TimPerry" <timpe...@noaspama.net> wrote:

EBS tones have been discontinued for many years now in the US.


Nope. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring low-
pitch square-wave tones.


you are perhaps referring to the Emergency Alert System (EAS).
after all, a pleasant sounding emergency sound wouldn't be very
effective. it's not really square waves either. look up AFSK (audio
frequency shift keying)


Yes. The EAS. Whenever an emergency occurs, first they play the boring
low-pitch tones.


think of then as duck farts... it wont seem so boring.

Then they play the high-pitched, terrifying sine-wave
tones I described.


BTW, I don't feel the first sound they play, to be indicative of any
emergency.


it might be only a test <g>

That low-pitched sound simply doesn't provide the


frightening, eye-watering, psychedelic feeling the second high-pitched
sound does. The second sound puts me in a dissociative state.


You say the first sound uses AFSK. What does the second sound use?


the 8 second 2 tone signal was manditory when the system was first
introduced. it now is optional. most do not use it, however relays from the
NWS sometimes have it.

I am in Southern California. Whenever the EAS plays its audio on the
TV/Radio stations, I notice them playing both the first and second
sounds.
.






User: "**THE-RFI-EMI-GUY**"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 04:07:06 PM
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------050308060202000906040308
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
You will hear a voice instructing you to drill a large hole through the
side of the ship. Do this and write back for more instructions!
Radium wrote:

On May 28, 10:36 am, H. Wabnig <.... .-- .- -... -. .. --.
@ .- --- -. DOT .- -> wrote:



So, what is your question?



My question:

If I am on the spaceship [described in the 1st message of this
thread], what will I hear on the radio? My guess is that I would hear
long-distance magnetic disruptions. Is my guess right? If so, would
these magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?



--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"©
"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."
"Follow The Money" ;-P
--------------050308060202000906040308
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
<title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
You will hear a voice instructing you to drill a large hole through the
side of the ship. Do this and write back for more instructions!<br>
<br>
Radium wrote:<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid1180374389.392662.246790@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">On May 28, 10:36 am, H. Wabnig &lt;.... .-- .- -... -. .. --.
@ .- --- -. DOT .- -&gt; wrote:
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">So, what is your question?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
My question:
If I am on the spaceship [described in the 1st message of this
thread], what will I hear on the radio? My guess is that I would hear
long-distance magnetic disruptions. Is my guess right? If so, would
these magnetic disruptions sound like the high-pitched, terrifying
heterodynes that resembles the sine-waves tones of the Emergency
Broadcasting System?
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Joe Leikhim K4SAT
"The RFI-EMI-GUY"&copy;
"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
For if it prosper, none dare call it treason."
"Follow The Money" ;-P
</pre>
</body>
</html>
--------------050308060202000906040308--
.



User: "Salmon Egg"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 12:34:39 PM
On 5/28/07 9:27 AM, in article
1180369641.959523.151220@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "Radium"
<glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:

Let's say I am in a space station

Sounds like your best idea yet.
Bill
-- Fermez le Bush--less than two years to go.
.
User: "Palindrome"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 28 May 2007 12:38:49 PM
Salmon Egg wrote:

On 5/28/07 9:27 AM, in article
1180369641.959523.151220@i13g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "Radium"
<glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:


Let's say I am in a space station



Sounds like your best idea yet.

In space, no one eats ice cream...
--
Sue
.


User: "Paul Hovnanian P.E."

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 11:54:00 PM
Radium wrote:


[snip]

If I am on this spaceship, what will I hear on the radio?

Ths sound of one hand clapping.
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto:Paul@Hovnanian.com
------------------------------------------------------------------
c (velocity of light in a vacuum) = 1.8x10^12 furlongs per fortnight
.
User: "Dan Bloomquist"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 30 May 2007 12:34:42 AM
Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

Radium wrote:

[snip]


If I am on this spaceship, what will I hear on the radio?



Ths sound of one hand clapping.

I'm reminded of spaceman. Have you been around long enough to remember
him? (aka James M Driscoll)
Now, he was entertaining....
.


User: "Paul Cardinale"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 08:44:10 PM
Radium wrote:

Hi:

Let's say I am in a space station which has a supercooled 150 KHz DX
analog receiver that receives the magnetic fields [while ignoring the
electric fields] of extremely weak 150 KHz AM analog carrier signals.
In addition, this receiver is so sensitive and powerful that it can
clearly pick up AM carrier waves as weak as 10^-10,000 watt [i.e. 10-
to-the-power-NEGATIVE-10,000 watt].

Which means that you can expect photons to arrive at a rate of about
one every 10^9964 years. Since the universe is only about 10^10 years
old...
Paul Cardinale
.
User: "Tomoko Kanazawa"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 09:46:18 PM
"Paul Cardinale" <pcardinale@volcanomail.com> wrote in message
news:1180489450.464865.284120@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...


Radium wrote:

Hi:

Let's say I am in a space station which has a supercooled 150 KHz DX
analog receiver that receives the magnetic fields [while ignoring the
electric fields] of extremely weak 150 KHz AM analog carrier signals.
In addition, this receiver is so sensitive and powerful that it can
clearly pick up AM carrier waves as weak as 10^-10,000 watt [i.e. 10-
to-the-power-NEGATIVE-10,000 watt].

Radios dont work in space. It's a VACKYOOM.
.
User: "Radium"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 29 May 2007 11:50:16 PM
On May 29, 7:46 pm, "Tomoko Kanazawa"
<T.Kanaz...@eodomo.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:

Radios dont work in space. It's a VACKYOOM.

Yes they do. Sound cannot travel through space, however,
electromagnetic representations of audio signals can. The spaceship
has air in it [duh!, otherwise those onboard wouldn't survive] so
loudspeakers attached to the radio and amplifiers should give out some
sound. Right?
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 30 May 2007 01:31:12 AM
In sci.physics, Radium
<glucegen1@gmail.com>
wrote
on 29 May 2007 21:50:16 -0700
<1180500616.639919.174210@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:

On May 29, 7:46 pm, "Tomoko Kanazawa"
<T.Kanaz...@eodomo.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:

Radios dont work in space. It's a VACKYOOM.


Yes they do. Sound cannot travel through space, however,
electromagnetic representations of audio signals can. The spaceship
has air in it [duh!, otherwise those onboard wouldn't survive] so
loudspeakers attached to the radio and amplifiers should give out some
sound. Right?

Well, congrats on knowing the basics, though you forgot three additional
possibilities.
[1] The electromagnetic waves could be converted to light pulses, which
would then feed a video receiver.
[2] The E/M waves could be fed directly into one's brain. This
admittedly slightly farfetched notion is presumably in the far future,
but it is theoretically possible.
[3] The E/M waves could be fed into piezoelectric crystals -- earphones
or earbuds.
There is also the possibility that the ship has no air but those aboard
it are using space suits.
--
#191,

Linux. Because it's there and it works.
Windows. It's there, but does it work?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
User: "Radium"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 30 May 2007 07:49:21 AM
On May 29, 11:31 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, Radium
<gluceg...@gmail.com>
wrote
on 29 May 2007 21:50:16 -0700
<1180500616.639919.174...@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:

On May 29, 7:46 pm, "Tomoko Kanazawa"
<T.Kanaz...@eodomo.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:

Radios dont work in space. It's a VACKYOOM.

Yes they do. Sound cannot travel through space, however,
electromagnetic representations of audio signals can. The spaceship
has air in it [duh!, otherwise those onboard wouldn't survive] so
loudspeakers attached to the radio and amplifiers should give out some
sound. Right?

Well, congrats on knowing the basics, though you forgot three additional
possibilities.

Thanks.

[1] The electromagnetic waves could be converted to light pulses, which
would then feed a video receiver.

In which case, I wonder what would be seen on the screen.

[2] The E/M waves could be fed directly into one's brain. This
admittedly slightly farfetched notion is presumably in the far future,
but it is theoretically possible.

Extremely unlikely. The brain is too poor of a conductor to process
any electromagnetic signals. Mostly the brain uses proteins to
transmit, receive, record, playback, store, and process signals. There
is a long list of what determines those signals. This includes - but
is clearly not limited to - the types of proteins, the amounts of
proteins, the rate at which the proteins move, whether they move at
all, and a many other variables regarding proteins. Most CNS signals
are based on proteins, though many sci-fi thrillers tend to spread the
myth that the brain is purely-electric.

[3] The E/M waves could be fed into piezoelectric crystals -- earphones
or earbuds.

Yes.

There is also the possibility that the ship has no air but those aboard
it are using space suits.

Yes but even in this case, the space suit contains air, which is
necessary for the astronaut to survive. This air is what conducts the
sound produced by the loudspeakers the astronaut is wearing. The
loudspeakers generate the sound based on signals they receive via
radio waves.
Paul Cardinale pointed out that AM carrier waves as weak as 10^-10,000
watt [i.e. 10-to-the-power-NEGATIVE-10,000 watt] would mean "expect
photons to arrive at a rate of about one every 10^9964 years." I am
now aware that my power requirements are way too low to receive
anything in a human lifetime. So let's increase the initial wattage of
the AM carrier wave to where it is equivalent to one 150 KHz photon
per second. Now, I can expect - after super-amplification and
subsequent demodulation -- to hear those terrifying yet enjoyable high-
pitched, heterodyne-like, EAS-resembling tones while on the spacecraft.
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: Spcae Radio Question 31 May 2007 12:59:35 AM
In sci.physics, Radium
<glucegen1@gmail.com>
wrote
on 30 May 2007 05:49:21 -0700
<1180529361.693321.53950@x35g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:

On May 29, 11:31 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, Radium
<gluceg...@gmail.com>
wrote
on 29 May 2007 21:50:16 -0700
<1180500616.639919.174...@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com>:


On May 29, 7:46 pm, "Tomoko Kanazawa"
<T.Kanaz...@eodomo.gsfc.nasa.gov> wrote:


Radios dont work in space. It's a VACKYOOM.


Yes they do. Sound cannot travel through space, however,
electromagnetic representations of audio signals can. The spaceship
has air in it [duh!, otherwise those onboard wouldn't survive] so
loudspeakers attached to the radio and amplifiers should give out some
sound. Right?


Well, congrats on knowing the basics, though you forgot three additional
possibilities.


Thanks.

[1] The electromagnetic waves could be converted to light pulses, which
would then feed a video receiver.


In which case, I wonder what would be seen on the screen.

Slow-scan TV is routinely used in space missions. I'd have
to look but it's probably 5-10 minutes a picture.
A standard 60 fps NTSC picture uses almost 6 MHz of bandwidth,
and that's with one sideband being mostly cut off. I'm not
up on the new HDTV stuff.


[2] The E/M waves could be fed directly into one's brain. This
admittedly slightly farfetched notion is presumably in the far future,
but it is theoretically possible.


Extremely unlikely. The brain is too poor of a conductor to process
any electromagnetic signals.

The brain is *already* processing electromagnetic signals,
though they're usually represented as electrochemical in
nature in most of the lay literature I've seen. But for
every flowing current there's a magnetic field -- a minute
and probably generally irrelevant one, to be sure, in the
case of brain signals.

Mostly the brain uses proteins to
transmit, receive, record, playback, store, and process signals.

Not up on neurology, are you? Well, I'm not either, but the
transmissions are rather complex, and affected in a general way
by many chemicals (L-dopamine being the most well-known), as the
impulse jumps the synapses. I know that sodium and potassium
are intimately involved. I doubt proteins are doing the moving,
though.

There
is a long list of what determines those signals. This includes - but
is clearly not limited to - the types of proteins, the amounts of
proteins, the rate at which the proteins move, whether they move at
all, and a many other variables regarding proteins. Most CNS signals
are based on proteins, though many sci-fi thrillers tend to spread the
myth that the brain is purely-electric.

The brain is electrochemical; this is readily demonstrable.


[3] The E/M waves could be fed into piezoelectric crystals -- earphones
or earbuds.


Yes.

There is also the possibility that the ship has no air but those aboard
it are using space suits.


Yes but even in this case, the space suit contains air, which is
necessary for the astronaut to survive. This air is what conducts the
sound produced by the loudspeakers the astronaut is wearing. The
loudspeakers generate the sound based on signals they receive via
radio waves.

It's not necessary to use loudspeakers. I've already
mentioned piezoelectric crystals, or one can also use tiny
vibrating coils connected to the teeth. A variant of this
technique -- I'm not quite sure how they do it but suspect
piezoelectric crystals again; they're cheap -- is used in
a certain sweet, which is held by a battery-powered unit.
The music plays through one's teeth, up the jaw, and into
the earbones, if I'm not mistaken.


Paul Cardinale pointed out that AM carrier waves as weak as 10^-10,000
watt [i.e. 10-to-the-power-NEGATIVE-10,000 watt] would mean "expect
photons to arrive at a rate of about one every 10^9964 years."

It's a relatively simple calculation. If one assumes a 1600 khz
carrier, the energy is
E = h*f = 6.626*10^-34 J-s * 1600000 = 1.06016 * 10^-27 J
per photon. If one assumes 10^-10000 J/s for the power source,
one divides
1.06016 * 10^-27 J / 10^-10000 = 1.06016 * 10^9973 s
= about 1 in every 3.3595 * 10^9965 years. He's off, but
not by a lot.

I am
now aware that my power requirements are way too low to receive
anything in a human lifetime. So let's increase the initial wattage of
the AM carrier wave to where it is equivalent to one 150 KHz photon
per second. Now, I can expect - after super-amplification and
subsequent demodulation -- to hear those terrifying yet enjoyable high-
pitched, heterodyne-like, EAS-resembling tones while on the spacecraft.

Even with the FM radio band (88-108 MHz) one will still have to wait
about 5 * 10^9963 years.
--
#191,

Linux makes one use one's mind.
Windows just messes with one's head.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.







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