| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
| Date: |
11 Oct 2004 05:09:07 PM |
| Object: |
SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
Our Bureau
The Hindu
Thursday, September 2, 2004
THERE HAS been a development that could lead to cleaner
and more efficient hydrogen production for powering
automobile fuel cells as well as homes, factories and
offices. Researchers in England have found a promising
method for producing hydrogen from sunflower oil. The
development was described at the 228th national meeting
of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest
scientific society.
Fuel cell drawbacks
For supplying the energy needs of the future, fuel cells
show much promise, and their demand is growing with
increasing use of the technology. However one of their
drawbacks, experts say, is that the hydrogen required to
run them generally comes from the burning of fossil
fuels, which generate greenhouse gases like carbon
dioxide and methane and pollutants such as carbon
monoxide.
"Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could provide a
more environmentally-friendly alternative by reducing
these pollutants while offering an abundant, low-cost and
renewable resource that reduces dependence on foreign
oil," says the study's lead researcher Valerie Dupont, an
energy engineer with the University of Leeds in England.
Dupont and her collaborators developed an experimental
hydrogen generator that uses only sunflower oil, air and
water vapour along with two highly-specialized catalysts
— one nickel-based, the other carbon-based — that are
alternatively used to store and then release oxygen or
carbon dioxide while producing hydrogen intermittently.
The new process does not involve the burning of any
fossil fuels, they say.
The sunflower oil used is the same type found on grocery
shelves. "We would happily toss our salad with it," says
the researcher, who adds that the process can also work
with other types of vegetable oils.
In the prototype device, which can fit on a standard lab
bench, water and oil are pumped into the unit and passed
through a pre-heater to vaporize them. The mixture is
broken down in the presence of heat to generate carbon
dioxide, hydrogen, methane and carbon monoxide through a
process called steam reforming.
Chemical manoeuvres
The catalysts, which are key to the process, orchestrate
a series of chemical manoeuvres that ultimately result in
an increased hydrogen yield. First, one of the catalysts
(the nickel-based unit) absorbs the oxygen from the air
and this interaction heats up the reactor bed of the
device. Simultaneously, in the presence of heat, another
catalyst (a carbon-based adsorbent) releases any carbon
dioxide previously trapped in the device.
Once the reactor bed is hot enough and all the carbon
dioxide has been released and expelled from the reactor,
the mixture of vaporized oil and water are then fed into
the reactor chamber. The heat from the reactor bed breaks
down the carbon-hydrogen bonds in the vaporized oil.
Water (steam) binds its oxygen to the carbon, releasing
its hydrogen and yielding carbon monoxide. Carbon
monoxide and water vapour tend to form carbon dioxide and
hydrogen when in the presence of each other. This overall
process results in a cyclical production of hydrogen,
Dupont says, adding that the process can be modified to
allow continuous hydrogen production.
High purity
The researchers achieved a hydrogen purity of 90 per
cent, which is more efficient than current hydrogen
generators that only achieve a hydrogen purity of about
70 per cent in laboratory studies. Carbon dioxide and
methane, the by-products of the sunflower oil
transformation are generated in roughly equal
proportions, the researchers say. "Currently the
generator is heated electrically, but in the near future
all the heat necessary to carry out the reaction of steam
with oil vapour will come from the intake of oxygen on
the nickel catalyst," Dupont says.
The experimental generator has not been used to supply
hydrogen to any fuel cells yet, but a similar device
could be refined to equip fuel stations with large-scale
hydrogen supplies, which consumers can ultimately feed
into the tanks of vehicles containing fuel cells, the
researchers say.
Hydrogen is a key component of fuel cells, where it
reacts with oxygen to generate electricity, with water as
the main emission. Major automobile manufacturers are
quickly developing fuel cell technology, but mass
production of such vehicles is expected to be many years
away, experts say.
More at:
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2004/09/02/stories/2004090200201400.htm
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
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"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the
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"And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
- Matthew 10:34-36.
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| User: "ivan" |
|
| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 06:22:34 PM |
|
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"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:Vfd6D44cNlM0@cP611z0NHUAHxP...
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
What's all this hydrogen fuel cell nonsense?.. up to Asda (Wal Mart), a
trolley full of sunflower cooking oil, straight into the tank of my old
Vauxhall diesel and I'm away!
.
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
|
| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 06:29:25 PM |
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In article <2t0itqF1p24t8U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
What's all this hydrogen fuel cell nonsense?.. up to Asda (Wal Mart), a
trolley full of sunflower cooking oil, straight into the tank of my old
Vauxhall diesel and I'm away!
Don't try that in your Mercedes (it will run like a Yugo).
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "ivan" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 06:36:18 PM |
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"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:SRw2Y80GNvt3@CG174W2vlaAsKV...
In article <2t0itqF1p24t8U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
What's all this hydrogen fuel cell nonsense?.. up to Asda (Wal Mart), a
trolley full of sunflower cooking oil, straight into the tank of my old
Vauxhall diesel and I'm away!
Don't try that in your Mercedes (it will run like a Yugo).
Nah, they run just as well as any other diesel.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,878122,00.html
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "chubawamba" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 10:16:19 PM |
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"ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:2t0jniF1ogonuU1@uni-berlin.de...
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:SRw2Y80GNvt3@CG174W2vlaAsKV...
In article <2t0itqF1p24t8U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
What's all this hydrogen fuel cell nonsense?.. up to Asda (Wal Mart),
a
trolley full of sunflower cooking oil, straight into the tank of my
old
Vauxhall diesel and I'm away!
Don't try that in your Mercedes (it will run like a Yugo).
Nah, they run just as well as any other diesel.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,878122,00.html
That is Not Organic Enough!
I want Sunflower Seeds in My Tank!
The engine will spit out the shells fertilizing where ever I go.
.
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| User: "ivan" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 06:42:39 PM |
|
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"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:SRw2Y80GNvt3@CG174W2vlaAsKV...
In article <2t0itqF1p24t8U1@uni-berlin.de>,
"ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj posted:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
What's all this hydrogen fuel cell nonsense?.. up to Asda (Wal Mart), a
trolley full of sunflower cooking oil, straight into the tank of my old
Vauxhall diesel and I'm away!
Don't try that in your Mercedes (it will run like a Yugo).
"He discovered that they have been doing this sort of thing in Germany for
years - not simply because it is cheaper, but because of the environmentally
beneficial effects of using sustainable fuels made from rape and sunflower
seeds rather than fossil fuels. Over there it is a sizeable industry,
supported by tax breaks; it is no coincidence that Mercedes and Volkswagen
engines are the most cooking-oil tolerant on the market. Indeed Mercedes
motors are so accommodating that they will, apparently, run on lard."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,878122,00.html
Jai Maharaj
http://www.mantra.com/jai
Om Shanti
.
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| User: "Bob Eldred" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 07:37:31 PM |
|
|
"Dr. Jai Maharaj" <usenet@mantra.com> wrote in message
news:Vfd6D44cNlM0@cP611z0NHUAHxP...
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
Our Bureau
The Hindu
Thursday, September 2, 2004
THERE HAS been a development that could lead to cleaner
and more efficient hydrogen production for powering
automobile fuel cells as well as homes, factories and
offices. Researchers in England have found a promising
method for producing hydrogen from sunflower oil. The
development was described at the 228th national meeting
of the American Chemical Society, the world's largest
scientific society.
Fuel cell drawbacks
For supplying the energy needs of the future, fuel cells
show much promise, and their demand is growing with
increasing use of the technology. However one of their
drawbacks, experts say, is that the hydrogen required to
run them generally comes from the burning of fossil
fuels, which generate greenhouse gases like carbon
dioxide and methane and pollutants such as carbon
monoxide.
"Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could provide a
more environmentally-friendly alternative by reducing
these pollutants while offering an abundant, low-cost and
renewable resource that reduces dependence on foreign
oil," says the study's lead researcher Valerie Dupont, an
energy engineer with the University of Leeds in England.
Dupont and her collaborators developed an experimental
hydrogen generator that uses only sunflower oil, air and
water vapour along with two highly-specialized catalysts
- one nickel-based, the other carbon-based - that are
alternatively used to store and then release oxygen or
carbon dioxide while producing hydrogen intermittently.
The new process does not involve the burning of any
fossil fuels, they say.
The sunflower oil used is the same type found on grocery
shelves. "We would happily toss our salad with it," says
the researcher, who adds that the process can also work
with other types of vegetable oils.
In the prototype device, which can fit on a standard lab
bench, water and oil are pumped into the unit and passed
through a pre-heater to vaporize them. The mixture is
broken down in the presence of heat to generate carbon
dioxide, hydrogen, methane and carbon monoxide through a
process called steam reforming.
Chemical manoeuvres
The catalysts, which are key to the process, orchestrate
a series of chemical manoeuvres that ultimately result in
an increased hydrogen yield. First, one of the catalysts
(the nickel-based unit) absorbs the oxygen from the air
and this interaction heats up the reactor bed of the
device. Simultaneously, in the presence of heat, another
catalyst (a carbon-based adsorbent) releases any carbon
dioxide previously trapped in the device.
Once the reactor bed is hot enough and all the carbon
dioxide has been released and expelled from the reactor,
the mixture of vaporized oil and water are then fed into
the reactor chamber. The heat from the reactor bed breaks
down the carbon-hydrogen bonds in the vaporized oil.
Water (steam) binds its oxygen to the carbon, releasing
its hydrogen and yielding carbon monoxide. Carbon
monoxide and water vapour tend to form carbon dioxide and
hydrogen when in the presence of each other. This overall
process results in a cyclical production of hydrogen,
Dupont says, adding that the process can be modified to
allow continuous hydrogen production.
High purity
The researchers achieved a hydrogen purity of 90 per
cent, which is more efficient than current hydrogen
generators that only achieve a hydrogen purity of about
70 per cent in laboratory studies. Carbon dioxide and
methane, the by-products of the sunflower oil
transformation are generated in roughly equal
proportions, the researchers say. "Currently the
generator is heated electrically, but in the near future
all the heat necessary to carry out the reaction of steam
with oil vapour will come from the intake of oxygen on
the nickel catalyst," Dupont says.
The experimental generator has not been used to supply
hydrogen to any fuel cells yet, but a similar device
could be refined to equip fuel stations with large-scale
hydrogen supplies, which consumers can ultimately feed
into the tanks of vehicles containing fuel cells, the
researchers say.
Hydrogen is a key component of fuel cells, where it
reacts with oxygen to generate electricity, with water as
the main emission. Major automobile manufacturers are
quickly developing fuel cell technology, but mass
production of such vehicles is expected to be many years
away, experts say.
More at:
http://www.hindu.com/seta/2004/09/02/stories/2004090200201400.htm
Jai Maharaj
If you have a bio-oil why the hell would you want to make hydrogen? The main
advantage of hydrogen, if there is one, is it's potential reduction in CO2
emissions. Bio fuels are CO2 neutral because the gas is cycled through the
growing plants which negates one of the main reasons for hydrogen.
Furthermore, hydrogen has a horrible volumetric energy density implying that
the above refroming process should be onboard the vehicle, oil being the the
stuff that is storred and transported. That being the case, other polutants
from the reforming process are released locally and must be delt with just
as they are from an IC engine. So, why not just run the oil directy in a
diesel. It's simpler, cheaper and more efficient, overall.
Bob
Bob
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 07:16:54 PM |
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Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Figure this out before the loss of conversion to hydrogen. 1 acre of
sunflowers yields 1.5 barrels of oil a year. Current world demand for
oil, 3E10 barrels a year. World landmass, Antarctica included, 58E3
square miles. So, if you yield 1E3 barrels per square miles and plant
_all_ the earth with sunflowers you would meet .2% of world demand for
oil. That is gross, before you consider inputs such as processing and
fertilizer.
One could call this meaningful, but not much more than one.
Best, Dan.
--
http://lakeweb.net
http://ReserveAnalyst.com
No EXTRA stuff for email.
.
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| User: "Zenobia" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
01 Nov 2004 09:27:25 AM |
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:16:54 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
<EXTRApublic21@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Figure this out before the loss of conversion to hydrogen. 1 acre of
sunflowers yields 1.5 barrels of oil a year. Current world demand for
oil, 3E10 barrels a year. World landmass, Antarctica included, 58E3
square miles. So, if you yield 1E3 barrels per square miles and plant
_all_ the earth with sunflowers you would meet .2% of world demand for
oil. That is gross, before you consider inputs such as processing and
fertilizer.
One could call this meaningful, but not much more than one.
Best, Dan.
Excuse me for nitpicking but ...
Sunflower oil - Yield per harvested acre = 1,300 pounds
1 barrel of oil = 159 litres
Sunflower oil (20 C) 920 kg / litre
1 barrel = 159 Litre
= 159 * 0.92 kg
= 146.28 kg
= 146.28 * 2.2 pounds
= 322 pounds
1 acre yields ~ 4 barrels of sunflower oil per year.
1 square mile = 640 acres
1 square mile = 2.58998811 square kilometers
Surface area of Earth (Land) = 148,647,000 sq km
= 5.7 * 10^7 sq miles
= 3.67 * 10^10 acres
= 1.47 * 10^11 barrels of sunflower oil per year.
= 147 billion barrels of sunflower oil per year.
( I appreciate that this is nothing like the
possible yield but it is the fictional yield based
on your assumptions)
I haven't bothered to give the world consumption of petroleum
oil as I couldn't google it very easily.
However I feel that if we (population Earth) want to go down
this renewable route we should remember that biological systems
are notoriously inefficient at converting the sun's light to
biomass. It seems to me that we would be better off applying
genetic research methods to radically increase the efficiency of
plants in producing biomass. But ..., I forget for a moment, GM
is anti-Green, according to current dogma.
.
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| User: "Zenobia" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
01 Nov 2004 09:37:58 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 15:27:25 +0000, Zenobia
<8.20.zenobia@spamgourmet.com> wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:16:54 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
<EXTRApublic21@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Figure this out before the loss of conversion to hydrogen. 1 acre of
sunflowers yields 1.5 barrels of oil a year. Current world demand for
oil, 3E10 barrels a year. World landmass, Antarctica included, 58E3
square miles. So, if you yield 1E3 barrels per square miles and plant
_all_ the earth with sunflowers you would meet .2% of world demand for
oil. That is gross, before you consider inputs such as processing and
fertilizer.
One could call this meaningful, but not much more than one.
Best, Dan.
Excuse me for nitpicking but ...
Sunflower oil - Yield per harvested acre = 1,300 pounds
1 barrel of oil = 159 litres
Sunflower oil (20 C) 920 kg / litre
1 barrel = 159 Litre
= 159 * 0.92 kg
= 146.28 kg
= 146.28 * 2.2 pounds
= 322 pounds
1 acre yields ~ 4 barrels of sunflower oil per year.
1 square mile = 640 acres
1 square mile = 2.58998811 square kilometers
Surface area of Earth (Land) = 148,647,000 sq km
= 5.7 * 10^7 sq miles
= 3.67 * 10^10 acres
= 1.47 * 10^11 barrels of sunflower oil per year.
= 147 billion barrels of sunflower oil per year.
( I appreciate that this is nothing like the
possible yield but it is the fictional yield based
on your assumptions)
I haven't bothered to give the world consumption of petroleum
oil as I couldn't google it very easily.
Ha found it.
Petroleum consumption = 8 * 10^7 barrels / day
= 2.9 * 10^10 barrels / year
Ratio of Possible Sunflower oil : Actual Petroleum
1.7 10^11 / (2.9 * 10^10) = 5.86
So sunflower oil can supply 586 % of current hydrocarbon
oil demand if the entire land-mass of the Earth was given over
to growing Sunflowers and assuming optimal efficiency
(exceedingly unlikely).
I'm not posting this to have a go at anyone in particular - just
to show the dangers of making unwarranted assumptions.
.
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
01 Nov 2004 04:53:10 PM |
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Zenobia wrote:
So sunflower oil can supply 586 % of current hydrocarbon
oil demand if the entire land-mass of the Earth was given over
to growing Sunflowers and assuming optimal efficiency
(exceedingly unlikely).
I'm not posting this to have a go at anyone in particular - just
to show the dangers of making unwarranted assumptions.
There was a mistake in my math but I made no assumptions. On the other
hand, you are assuming seed is 100% oil.
Best, Dan.
--
http://lakeweb.net
http://ReserveAnalyst.com
No EXTRA stuff for email.
What can you see if you can't see it all...
.
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| User: "Romanise" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
02 Nov 2004 03:08:10 AM |
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Zenobia wrote:
So sunflower oil can supply 586 % of current hydrocarbon
oil demand if the entire land-mass of the Earth was given over
to growing Sunflowers and assuming optimal efficiency
(exceedingly unlikely).
Dan Bloomquist <EXTRApublic21@lakeweb.com> wrote
There was a mistake in my math but I made no assumptions. On the other
hand, you are assuming seed is 100% oil.
In UK I heard 3% of rapeseed oil is getting mixed with disel. I
believe US produces it the cheapest.
In India there is an effort to use 'jojoba' oil. I believe it is not
native to India. Neem oil is another inedible oil.
India being dependent on imports for its cooking oil demands one
wonders if oils like sunflower will ever get used in cars even for a
small percent.
Indians mix paraffin in petrol to make fast buck, paraffin being more
subcidised than petrol.
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| User: "Zenobia" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
04 Nov 2004 04:50:57 AM |
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On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:53:10 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
<EXTRApublic21@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Zenobia wrote:
So sunflower oil can supply 586 % of current hydrocarbon
oil demand if the entire land-mass of the Earth was given over
to growing Sunflowers and assuming optimal efficiency
(exceedingly unlikely).
I'm not posting this to have a go at anyone in particular - just
to show the dangers of making unwarranted assumptions.
There was a mistake in my math but I made no assumptions. On the other
hand, you are assuming seed is 100% oil.
Best, Dan.
This reference (on page 9) gives the oil yield as about 1200 -
1300 pounds of oil per acre.
<http://www.agmrc.org/sunflowers/profile/sunflowerprofile.pdf>
I just took this off the web and I'm no expert. If my references
are wrong then I'll accept your figures. Perhaps my figures are
based on high yield US production using large amounts of
fertilizer?
.
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
04 Nov 2004 09:07:19 AM |
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Zenobia wrote:
On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 22:53:10 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
<EXTRApublic21@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Zenobia wrote:
So sunflower oil can supply 586 % of current hydrocarbon
oil demand if the entire land-mass of the Earth was given over
to growing Sunflowers and assuming optimal efficiency
(exceedingly unlikely).
I'm not posting this to have a go at anyone in particular - just
to show the dangers of making unwarranted assumptions.
There was a mistake in my math but I made no assumptions. On the other
hand, you are assuming seed is 100% oil.
Best, Dan.
This reference (on page 9) gives the oil yield as about 1200 -
1300 pounds of oil per acre.
It does not say that. It says, 'U.S. Non-oil and Oil Sunflower yields
per acre'. These are 'crop' yields.
<http://www.agmrc.org/sunflowers/profile/sunflowerprofile.pdf>
I just took this off the web and I'm no expert. If my references
are wrong then I'll accept your figures. Perhaps my figures are
based on high yield US production using large amounts of
fertilizer?
This pdf is consistent with what I've read:
'Sunflowers for oil had an average yield of 1206 pounds per acre in 2003.'
'For every 100 pounds of seed, about 40 pounds of oil...'
Best, Dan.
--
http://lakeweb.net
http://ReserveAnalyst.com
No EXTRA stuff for email.
What can you see if you can't see it all...
.
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
01 Nov 2004 04:49:30 PM |
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Zenobia wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 00:16:54 GMT, Dan Bloomquist
<EXTRApublic21@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Figure this out before the loss of conversion to hydrogen. 1 acre of
sunflowers yields 1.5 barrels of oil a year. Current world demand for
oil, 3E10 barrels a year. World landmass, Antarctica included, 58E3
square miles. So, if you yield 1E3 barrels per square miles and plant
_all_ the earth with sunflowers you would meet .2% of world demand for
oil. That is gross, before you consider inputs such as processing and
fertilizer.
One could call this meaningful, but not much more than one.
Best, Dan.
Excuse me for nitpicking but ...
Sunflower oil - Yield per harvested acre = 1,300 pounds
I don't know where you got this number. From what I've seen, in the US
and Canada, yields are about 1200 lb.. _of seed_ per acre, 40% of which
is oil. I'm not going to hunt the pages but several edu sites reflected
the pretty much the same yield, 1.5 barrels/acre.
1 barrel of oil = 159 litres
Sunflower oil (20 C) 920 kg / litre
1 barrel = 159 Litre
= 159 * 0.92 kg
= 146.28 kg
= 146.28 * 2.2 pounds
= 322 pounds
1 acre yields ~ 4 barrels of sunflower oil per year.
I used 7 lbs/gallon, 46 gallons/barrel.
1200 * .4 / 7 / 46 = 1.5 barrels/acre.
1 square mile = 640 acres
1 square mile = 2.58998811 square kilometers
How about rounding to 1000 barrels/mile^2 ?
( 640 * 1.5 )
Surface area of Earth (Land) = 148,647,000 sq km
I did make a mistake. If you'll notice I wrote 58E3 where I should have
written 57E6
= 5.7 * 10^7 sq miles
= 3.67 * 10^10 acres
= 1.47 * 10^11 barrels of sunflower oil per year.
= 147 billion barrels of sunflower oil per year.
( I appreciate that this is nothing like the
possible yield but it is the fictional yield based
on your assumptions)
I haven't bothered to give the world consumption of petroleum
oil as I couldn't google it very easily.
80 million barrels a day is current world production. Round to 3E10
barrels a year. sunflower 57E6 * 1000 is 5.7E10. So it looks like my
error checks, 200%
However I feel that if we (population Earth) want to go down
this renewable route we should remember that biological systems
are notoriously inefficient at converting the sun's light to
biomass. It seems to me that we would be better off applying
genetic research methods to radically increase the efficiency of
plants in producing biomass. But ..., I forget for a moment, GM
is anti-Green, according to current dogma.
It should not matter who's dogma. It is only about crunching numbers.
But now that we get 200% it is worth looking farther into this.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/geography/continents/Land.shtml
Say you wanted 10% of world oil demand, 5% of the world land mass for a
gross output of sunflower oil. That's an area the size of Australia.
This is the _gross_ output from that area. That area has to be planted,
watered, fertilized, managed, harvested and processed.
Best, Dan.
--
http://lakeweb.net
http://ReserveAnalyst.com
No EXTRA stuff for email.
What can you see if you can't see it all...
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| User: "Dr. Jai Maharaj" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
11 Oct 2004 06:26:05 PM |
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In article <416B138C.873333BE@hate.spam.net>,
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> posted:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Unwanted idiot troll. Go to Hell - or infest your own blighted idiot
newsgroups. Same difference.
Uncle Al is not in an institution already ?
In article <_Jeff_Relf_2004_Sep_16_8pv8@Cotse.NET>,
Jeff Relf <Usenet_2_@JeffRelf.Cotse.NET> posted:
Hi Ha Ha Hanson,
You noted: <<
Eliminating cranks would drive Al into the nut house.
Be kind ! >>
Uncle Al is not in an institution already ?
P.S. Control is the Goal. You can't be too poor or too thin.
PROFILE OF ABUSER ALAN SCHWARTZ aka 'Uncle Al' <uncleal0@ix.netcom.com>
There's more information about Alan Schwartz
in the public archives at:
http://tinyurl.com/5qjmw
[ Subject: Profile: Schwartz, Alan
[ From:
[ Newsgroups: sci.physics
[ Date: 21 Mar 2004 13:34:46 -0800
[ Message-ID: <b31a8173.0403211334.25f9abc5@posting.google.com>
[ NNTP-Posting-Host: 61.11.26.150
[ X-Trace: posting.google.com 1079904887 30505 127.0.0.1
[ (21 Mar 2004 21:34:47 GMT)
[ NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 21:34:47 +0000 (UTC)
[
[
[ Name: Schwartz, Alan
[ Country: USA
[ Residential Address: SANTA ANA, CA 92705
[ Map: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=250&addtohistory=&address=&city=SANTA+ANA&state=CA&zipcode=92705&submit=Get+Map
[ Postal Address:
[ Alan Schwartz
[ 49 Fabriano
[ P.O. Box 005
[ Irvine, CA 92620-2525
[ E-mail(s): uncleal0@ix.netcom.com,
[ Tel: 714-771-2526 (+1 714 771 2526 for international callers)
[ Spouse: Jackie Schwartz
[ Spouse Occupation: Para-legal
[ Spouse workplace: <pending disclosure>
[
[ ISP: http://www.earthlink.net
[ Email: http://support.earthlink.net/support/MYACCT/forms/csform.jsp
End of forwarded message from
http://tinyurl.com/5qjmw
Or,
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=b31a8173.0403211334.25f9abc5%40posting.google.com&output=gplain
In article <43d9f575.0408101155.15fe136e@posting.google.com>,
posted:
EXPOSED - Lying scum and stalker 'Uncle Al' aka "Alan Schwartz"
<uncleal0@ix.netcom.com>
How to handle stalkers and
'Uncle Al' aka "Alan Schwartz" <uncleal0@ix.netcom.com>
[ Subject: How to handle stalkers and Uncle Al
[ From: Archimedes Plutonium <plutoniu@willinet.net>
[ Newsgroups: sci.chem,sci.physics,sci.archaeology
[ Message-ID: <3A6128B1.7ED158B6@willinet.net>
[ Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2001
[
[
[ Ryan Doherty wrote:
[
[ > Uncle Al (24.16.181.181),
[ >
[ > I am consider this message of yours SPAM, so please
[ > keep your childish postings to yourself!
[ > By the way, Grow up.. you are wasting more bandwidth
[ > with your repeated responces that Archimedes and his
[ > questions!
[ >
[ > Ryan
[
[ > Ryan, you are talking to a fence post when you talk to
[ > Uncle Al. He and his motley crew of cohorts have stalked
[ > me for years. In fact they have stalked me nonstop for 7
[ > years now.
[ >
[ > Uncle Al feels he is a police cop of sci.chem and
[ > sci.physics and wants to chase out any poster he does not
[ > like. Many chemistry professors have put Al Schwartz into
[ > their killfile. That is about the only real solution.
[ >
[ > Some say Al Schwartz is a failed chemistry professor of
[ > 80s in age living in Tallahassee Florida or Denton Texas.
[ > He is old, cranky with nothing to do but post to the
[ > Internet. He feels a righteous duty to stalk me. No
[ > matter if I post pure chemistry to sci. chem or pure
[ > physics to sci.physics, Uncle Al feels that none of my
[ > posts belongs to those newsgroups.
[ >
[ > He has set himself up as a self righteous self imposed
[ > police cop of sci.chem.
[ >
[ > Many other people have complained about Uncle Al in sci.
[ > chem.
[ >
[ > SOLUTION: the only solution that I can see is to killfile
[ > Uncle Al and all Al supporters. And to add sci.chem and
[ > sci.physics to all of your posts to the Internet. Let
[ > Uncle Al stalk you everywhere, not just sci. chem or sci
[ > physics. Make it so that everyday Uncle Al wakes up, his
[ > chores and work are to stalk people on the Internet. Make
[ > it such that the essence of life for Uncle Al will now be
[ > to stalk 1 or 3 or 20 or 117 people every day.
[ >
[ > So, I am asking of all those people on the Internet who
[ > have been attacked by Uncle Al, to give Uncle Al what he
[ > craves. Add sci.chem and sci.physics to all of your
[ > Internet posts. And killfile Uncle Al.
[ >
[ > Uncle Al is already a crackpot and is insane, but drive
[ > him wildly insane.
[ >
[ > Force him to waste minutes and hours every day of his
[ > life stalking you.
[ >
[ > And you just sit back and laugh at how the idiot Uncle Al
[ > is making himself a monkey idiot.
[ >
[ > Last year someone emailed me saying that sci.chem was
[ > back to normal and that Uncle Al had been put under
[ > sedation and it was safe to post to sci.chem again.
[ > Sci.chem was flooded by outsiders because Uncle Al had
[ > pissed them off.
[ >
[ > Well, that is not the way to handle the self imposed
[ > sci.chem police dog of Uncle Al. The way to handle Uncle
[ > Al and other stalkers like him is to "killfile them" and
[ > then force them to stalk you all over the Internet. Let
[ > everyone see what a fool he is, not just sci.chem folk.
[ >
[ > I wish that someone is archiving all of the Uncle Al
[ > stalks of Archimedes Plutonium. I have him killfiled and
[ > so I have zero. But I would imagine that Uncle Al has
[ > about 500 posts per year of attacks.
[ >
[ > So, I ask everyone who knows Uncle Al, to add sci. chem
[ > to their Internet posts and to killfile Uncle Al. Let the
[ > fool make himself a larger fool.
[ >
[ > And it takes little energy for me or for you to add
[ > "sci.chem" but think of how much energy and how much rage
[ > it gives Uncle Al. Why, I just burst out into laughter at
[ > all the energy spent by Uncle Al in stalking this and
[ > other posts of mine. Uncle Al is too stupid to realize he
[ > has been defeated and that the world laughs at his cop
[ > enforcement. That method (if they have a newsgroup
[ > hangout) will deal with all stalkers of the Internet, not
[ > just Uncle Al.
End of copy
[ Subject: Re: How to handle stalker Alan 'Uncle Al' Schwartz
[ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004
In article <ZcednUDSG4Zb5NPdRVn-jg@comcast.com>,
Bill Vajk <bill9north@hotmailDITCHTHIS.com> posted:
Arindam Banerjee wrote:
Dr. Jai Maharaj wrote in message
news:<Stalker-Uncle-Al-27hf3.20040308@news.mantra.com>...
In article <404D34BE.30087280@hate.spam.net>,
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> posted:
[... reference to lies and defamation...]
How to handle stalkers and "Uncle Al"
- snip -
Thanks, Jai, looks like this fellow was not worth my attention. It is
depressing to think, that those in power in the field of modern
physics are what chaps like these want to be.
Al is a chemist wannabe physicist.
Alan Schwartz has published his contact information:
Alan Schwartz
49 Fabriano
P.O. Box 005
Irvine, CA 92620-2525
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Nu16TComWkEJ:www.mazepath.com/uncleal/advert.htm+%22Schwartz%22+%22Uncle+Al%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
and e-mail addresses:
"Alan Schwartz" <uncleal0@ix.netcom.com>
"Alan Schwartz" < >
- - - - -
Thanks for the warning about the modern sceintist who defends
science all the time. Uncle Al is ignored. He is the
flip side of the open thinking philosopher scinetist.
Meaning he requires litterally a falsified predicate thinking.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
14 Oct 2004 12:00:09 AM |
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In sci.physics, Dr. Jai Maharaj
<usenet@mantra.com>
wrote
on Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:09:07 GMT
<Vfd6D44cNlM0@cP611z0NHUAHxP>:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
And the reason we want to produce the hydrogen from
the oil as opposed to merely refining the oil into
some variant of diesel is precisely why...?
[rest snipped]
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "Jim Greenfield" |
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| Title: Re: SUNFLOWER OIL TO POWER FUTURE CARS (Repost) |
02 Nov 2004 06:44:54 PM |
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The Ghost In The Machine <ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote in message news:<8kd142-ig5.ln1@sirius.athghost7038suus.net>...
In sci.physics, Dr. Jai Maharaj
<usenet@mantra.com>
wrote
on Mon, 11 Oct 2004 22:09:07 GMT
<Vfd6D44cNlM0@cP611z0NHUAHxP>:
Sunflower oil to power future cars
Producing hydrogen from sunflower oil could
provide a more environmentally friendly alternative
by reducing pollutants while offering an abundant,
low-cost and renewable resource.
And the reason we want to produce the hydrogen from
the oil as opposed to merely refining the oil into
some variant of diesel is precisely why...?
It doesn't smell too flash from the exhaust!
The sunflower plant itself is very "hungry". Even after one crop, the
soil exhibits an alarming drop in fertility. The amount of fertiliser
needed to build it up again would outweigh (out cost) the advantages.
Vegetable oil in general, yes, but NOT sunflowers.
Jim G
[rest snipped]
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