| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Potte" |
| Date: |
01 Apr 2005 04:13:10 PM |
| Object: |
Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
Nuclei are said to be created in the sun and supernova
explosions because it requires high temperature. To
fuse two hydrogen. Isn't it that the electrostatic
repulsion has to be overcome. Why does this need super
high temperature? Something to do with symmetry breaking?
Care elaborate in details.
If you can overcome electrostatic repulsion, and the
two hydrogens got close to each other. Would their gluons
just combine, or do you need to create new gluons too.
Is this how you create helium?
Suppose we can cancel the electrostatic forces of particles
by shielding it. Can we just let two hydrogens be near
one another and expecting helium to come out or putting
79 of them and creating gold for example? What parameters
beside electrostatic repulsion must you overcome to
create tabletop nucleosynthesis of any element at will?
Potte
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| User: "Old Man" |
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| Title: Re: Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
01 Apr 2005 06:53:58 PM |
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"Potte" <photonmanual@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112393590.650010.294990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Nuclei are said to be created in the sun and supernova
explosions because it requires high temperature. To
fuse two hydrogen. Isn't it that the electrostatic
repulsion has to be overcome.
Yes.
Why does this need super high temperature?
As temperature, T, increases, so does average proton
thermal velocity, v:
< (1 / 2) m v^2 > = (3 / 2) k T
Fusion is enabled when proton kinetic energy exceeds
the energy of Coulomb repulsion:
(1 / 2) m v^2 > e^2 / R_p
where "k" is Boltzmann's constant, "m" is the proton mass,
"e" is the proton charge, and R_p ~ 1 fm is the proton
radius.
Something to do with symmetry breaking?
Silly. No.
Care elaborate in details.
Did that.
If you can overcome electrostatic repulsion, and the
two hydrogens got close to each other. Would their gluons
just combine, or do you need to create new gluons too.
Is this how you create helium?
Silly. The nucleon-nucleon force is mediated by exchange
of pions, not gluons. The fusion reaction,
p + p -> d + leptons
goes via the weak interaction and is mediated by the creation
and decay of a W-boson
Suppose we can cancel the electrostatic forces of particles
by shielding it. Can we just let two hydrogens be near
one another and expecting helium to come out
Canceling the charge of the proton is an audacious idea,
but there's no Coulomb repulsion between two neutrons,
nor is there a repulsion between a neutron and proton.
However, the nucleon-nucleon force between two identical
nucleons (singlet spin state) is insufficient to form a bound
nucleus. In order to induce a weak interaction, whereby
proton <- > neutron, where-after the formation of the
more attractive nuclear triplet spin state is allowed, the two
nucleons must remain close to each other for an extended
length of time.
or putting
79 of them and creating gold for example? What parameters
beside electrostatic repulsion must you overcome to
create tabletop nucleosynthesis of any element at will?
Silly. Because of the nature of the nucleon-nucleon force,
the Pauli exclusion principle prevents identical nucleons
from binding. The weak interaction (neutron <-> proton
or d-quark <-> u-quark) allows non-identical nucleons to
bind in the triplet nuclear spin state.
Potte
[Old Man]
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| User: "David Cross" |
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| Title: Re: Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
02 Apr 2005 01:55:02 AM |
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 18:53:58 -0600, "Old Man" <nomail@nomail.net> wrote:
Silly. The nucleon-nucleon force is mediated by exchange
of pions, not gluons.
Small nitpick. The current model of the strong interaction posits gluon
exchange within nucleonic quarks, along with a "residual" gluon exchange
outside the nucleons which is responsible for binding them together.
It's just that due to the way gluon exchange works between nucleons, they
effectively act as though they were exchanging pi mesons. For nuclear chemists
(myself being one) this distinction is unimportant, but for the physicists, I
do believe I would hear some of them choke indignantly if I were to state that
nucleon interactions were due to virtual pi meson exchange.
---
David Cross
dcross1 AT shaw DOT ca
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| User: "Old Man" |
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| Title: Re: Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
02 Apr 2005 02:47:08 PM |
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"David Cross" <spamdenied@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:4mjs41h5dhrni8qmm8h28oqn96j3f95fs6@4ax.com...
On Fri, 1 Apr 2005 18:53:58 -0600, "Old Man" <nomail@nomail.net> wrote:
Silly. The nucleon-nucleon force is mediated by exchange
of pions, not gluons.
Small nitpick. The current model of the strong interaction posits gluon
exchange within nucleonic quarks, along with a "residual" gluon exchange
outside the nucleons which is responsible for binding them together.
Crackpot *****. Gluon color is a quantum number.
The gluon field is quantized. There's no Feynman
diagram for "residual" gluon exchange between nucleons.
Gluon exchange between nucleons is strictly forbidden.
It's just that due to the way gluon exchange works between nucleons, they
effectively act as though they were exchanging pi mesons. For nuclear
chemists
(myself being one) this distinction is unimportant, but for the
physicists, I
do believe I would hear some of them choke indignantly if I were to state
that
nucleon interactions were due to virtual pi meson exchange.
As a (has-been) nuclear physicist, Old Man chokes on
David's residual *****. David's spew wouldn't pass
peer review in any nuclear physics journal.
David Cross
[Old Man]
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: Re: Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
02 Apr 2005 04:51:33 AM |
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Mr Big thalker
just have a look on my absract about my model
and tell me if your fucken model could come even close to that
whiout your big talking about quarks and hand waving ful of 'gluons'
how far in the periodic table did you go ???
my home made sits is ;
http://www.geocities.com/porat_y/mypage
actually i can guess waht will be the reaction of as assertive hand
waver like you
anyway just have a look how much is your real worth befor opening your
big mouth.
Y.Porat
--------------------------------
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
02 Apr 2005 06:55:11 AM |
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On a sunny day (1 Apr 2005 14:13:10 -0800) it happened "Potte"
<photonmanual@yahoo.com> wrote in
<1112393590.650010.294990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
Nuclei are said to be created in the sun and supernova
explosions because it requires high temperature. To
fuse two hydrogen. Isn't it that the electrostatic
repulsion has to be overcome. Why does this need super
high temperature? Something to do with symmetry breaking?
Care elaborate in details.
If you can overcome electrostatic repulsion, and the
two hydrogens got close to each other. Would their gluons
just combine, or do you need to create new gluons too.
Is this how you create helium?
Suppose we can cancel the electrostatic forces of particles
by shielding it. Can we just let two hydrogens be near
one another and expecting helium to come out or putting
79 of them and creating gold for example? What parameters
beside electrostatic repulsion must you overcome to
create tabletop nucleosynthesis of any element at will?
Potte
Google 'Farnsworth fusor' and build one yourself if you are into it
Many have.
Very good picture here:
http://www.rexresearch.com/farnsworth/fusor.htm#ligon
DIY guide:
http://www.kronjaeger.com/hv-old/fusor/construction/
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
01 Apr 2005 04:37:09 PM |
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Potte wrote:
Nuclei are said to be created in the sun and supernova
explosions because it requires high temperature. To
fuse two hydrogen. Isn't it that the electrostatic
repulsion has to be overcome. Why does this need super
high temperature? Something to do with symmetry breaking?
Care elaborate in details.
Ya gotta smash them together to get over the Coulomb barrier. Your
brainfart is not our problem. Lowest tunneling barrier without
evacuating the neighborhood is for two deuteriums. Alpher, Bethe,
Gamow way back before you were born.
If you can overcome electrostatic repulsion, and the
two hydrogens got close to each other. Would their gluons
just combine, or do you need to create new gluons too.
Is this how you create helium?
Ignorance is a wonderful tool for self-embarssement. We eagerly await
your rediscovery of cold fusion.
Suppose we can cancel the electrostatic forces of particles
by shielding it. Can we just let two hydrogens be near
one another and expecting helium to come out or putting
79 of them and creating gold for example? What parameters
beside electrostatic repulsion must you overcome to
create tabletop nucleosynthesis of any element at will?
You aren't any good at balancing your checkbook, right?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" |
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| Title: Re: Tabletop Nucleosynthesis |
01 Apr 2005 04:44:39 PM |
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Potte wrote:
Nuclei are said to be created in the sun and supernova
explosions because it requires high temperature. To
fuse two hydrogen. Isn't it that the electrostatic
repulsion has to be overcome. Why does this need super
high temperature? Something to do with symmetry breaking?
Care elaborate in details.
If you can overcome electrostatic repulsion, and the
two hydrogens got close to each other. Would their gluons
just combine, or do you need to create new gluons too.
Is this how you create helium?
http://www.belljar.net/634fusor.pdf
--
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
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