| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"kuttu" |
| Date: |
19 May 2005 08:31:11 AM |
| Object: |
Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
It has generally been belived that no particle can exceed the speed of
the light.this has meant in turn that in formulating the quantum theory
of fields it has been tacitly assumed that all the particless described
by such fields belong to one of two classess
1.Those which have a finite rest mass and travel with speeds less than
the speed of light
2. those which have zero rest mass and hence alwayes travel with the
speed of light
We may also consider a third class of particles those which travel with
speeds greater than the speed of light this is known as Tachyons
The theory is presented by Mr:E.C.G Sudersan Department of phisics,New
york
So Whom will we truest Einsten or Sudersan?
.
|
|
| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
19 May 2005 11:53:31 AM |
|
|
"kuttu" <vysakh@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1116509471.595845.43420@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The theory is presented by Mr:E.C.G Sudersan Department of phisics,New
york
An hypothesis maybe, not a theory. And he isn't the first person to
hypothesize the existence of tachyons.
So Whom will we truest Einsten or Sudersan?
Everything being equal, I'll trust Einstein. You did mean Einstein didn't
you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
19 May 2005 12:09:07 PM |
|
|
there is another person who challenged Eisteins 'curved space time
his name is Y,P
he suggested *instead*
a basic particle that moves naturally in a closed circle
and called it
*The Circlon*
14 years ago i called it something else but that does not matter
........
all the best
Y.Porat
-----------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Al" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
19 May 2005 12:54:55 PM |
|
|
kuttu wrote:
It has generally been belived that no particle can exceed the speed of
the light.this has meant in turn that in formulating the quantum theory
of fields it has been tacitly assumed that all the particless described
by such fields belong to one of two classess
1.Those which have a finite rest mass and travel with speeds less than
the speed of light
2. those which have zero rest mass and hence alwayes travel with the
speed of light
We may also consider a third class of particles those which travel with
speeds greater than the speed of light this is known as Tachyons
[snip]
Idiot. Tachyons are non-physical extraneous mathematical solutions to
an equation. Example,
Given two solid spheres: one of quartz d=2.649 g/cm^3 and the other of
fused silica d=2.203 g/cm^3, plus gold d=19.3 g/cm^3. Construct an
undersized fused silica solid sphere with a uniform thickness surface
layer of gold to have the same overall radius and mass as the quartz
solid sphere.
The solution is a^3 - 3Ra^2 + 3R^2a -0.026086R^3 where "R" is the
radius of the quartz solid sphere and "a" is the thickness of the gold
layer on the (R-a) radiused fused silica solid sphere.
Now then, you horrible jackass, give us the physical interpretation of
the two complex number solutions to the equation. Uncle Al will start
you off with the real number solution: For R=1, a=0.0087722 and "a"
is directly proportional to "R".
Well, stooopid? What do the complex number solutions to the cubic
equation mean in the real world? Cough it up, fool. Tell us to what
they correspond and how to build it. C'mon, jackass - you presume to
overturn all of physics. Start by solving a trivial problem in
mechanics. Idiot.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
19 May 2005 07:49:52 PM |
|
|
Uncle Al wrote:
Idiot. Tachyons are non-physical extraneous mathematical solutions
to
an equation. Example,
Given two solid spheres: one of quartz d=2.649 g/cm^3 and the other
of
fused silica d=2.203 g/cm^3, plus gold d=19.3 g/cm^3. Construct an
undersized fused silica solid sphere with a uniform thickness surface
layer of gold to have the same overall radius and mass as the quartz
solid sphere.
The solution is a^3 - 3Ra^2 + 3R^2a -0.026086R^3 where "R" is the
radius of the quartz solid sphere and "a" is the thickness of the
gold
layer on the (R-a) radiused fused silica solid sphere.
Now then, you horrible jackass, give us the physical interpretation
of
the two complex number solutions to the equation. Uncle Al will
start
you off with the real number solution: For R=1, a=0.0087722 and "a"
is directly proportional to "R".
Well, stooopid? What do the complex number solutions to the cubic
equation mean in the real world? Cough it up, fool. Tell us to what
they correspond and how to build it. C'mon, jackass - you presume to
overturn all of physics. Start by solving a trivial problem in
mechanics. Idiot.
Tachyons can be more than just extraneous in a theory, they can
actually say something about physics, from Tony Smith's website:
Tachyons with imaginary mass, as to which Joseph Polchinski says "...
the negative mass-squared means that the no-string 'vacuum' is actually
unstable ... whether the bosonic string has any stable vacuum ... the
answer is not known. ...". In the interpretation of Closed Unoriented
Bosonic String Theory as the MacroSpace of the Many-Worlds of World
Strings, the instability of a no-string vacuum is natural, because:
if MacroSpace had no World Strings, or just one World String, the other
possible World Strings would automatically be created, so that any
MacroSpace would be "full" of "all" possible World Strings.
John
http://home.comcast.net/~jcgonsowski/psychophysics/index.html
(any loopiness is my fault not the fault of my sources)
.
|
|
|
| User: "cutescience" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
21 May 2005 12:26:41 AM |
|
|
Tachyons are theoretical particles that always travel faster than
light. Tachy meaning "swift."
There is a formula that relates mass to speed in the special theory
of relativity:
m = m0 / SQR(1 - v^2/c^2)
where m = energy divided by c^2 (sometimes called "relativistic mass")
m0 = rest mass
v = velocity of mass relative to you
c = velocity of light (constant in all frames of reference)
So, as you see an object moving faster and faster, its mass
increases. A simple experiment with electrons in a vacuum tube can
convince you that mass increases in this way. So you get something
like:
v/c m/m0
0.0 1.000
.2 1.021
.4 1.091
.6 1.250
.8 1.667
.9 2.294
.95 3.203
.99 7.089
.995 10.013
.999 22.366
1.000 infinity
This led Einstein and others to conclude that it was impossible for
any material object to travel at or beyond the speed of light.
Because as you increase speed mass increases. With increased mass,
there's a requirement for increased energy to accelerate the mass.
In the end, an infinite amount of energy is needed to move any object
*at* the speed of light. Nothing would move you faster than the
speed of light, according to this type of analysis.
But, some researchers noted that light has no trouble moving at the
speed of light. Furthermore, objects with mass have no trouble
converting to light. Light has no trouble converting to objects with
mass. So, you have tardyons and photons. Tardy meaning slow. These
classes of objects can easily be converted into one another.
Now, in terms of the equation given above, if you start out with
*any* mass you are constrained to moving less than the speed of
light. If you start out with zero mass, you stay at zero mass. This
describes the situation with respect to photons. You have zero over
zero, and end up with zero....
But, what if you started out faster than the speed of light? Then
the equation above would give you an imaginary mass, since v^2 / c^2
would be greater than 1 and that would be subtracted from 1 to
produce a negative number. Then you'd take the square root of the
negative number and end up with an imaginary number. So, normal
matter moving faster than the speed of light ends up with imaginary
mass, whatever that may be.
Imaginary mass travelling faster than the speed of light would show
up as regular mass to an observer at rest.
v/c m/m0 (m/m0)*i
infinity 0+0.000i 0.000
1,000 0-0.001i 0.001
100 0-0.010i 0.010
10 0-0.101i 0.101
8 0-0.126i 0.126
6 0-0.169i 0.169
4 0-0.258i 0.258
2 0-0.577i 0.577
1.5 0-1.118i 1.118
1.1 0-2.182i 2.182
1.05 0-3.123i 3.123
1.01 0-7.053i 7.053
1.000 0-inf*i infinity
So, if there was such a thing as imaginary mass, it would look like
normal mass but it would always travel *faster* than c, the speed of
light. When it lost energy it would move faster. When it gained
energy it would move slower. So, in addition to tardyons and
photons, there might exist tachyons.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
21 May 2005 12:55:35 AM |
|
|
who on earth can make yousure that mass 'inflates' with veleociry?
one can clim that th eexperiments you quote show just
*that the energy needed to add acceleration becomes bigger
as velocity increases*!:
E/gama =mC^2
what is mor elogic :
that there are many kinds of mass? or elses
that there are different amount of energy ???!!!
(just emember 'Ocams razor')
even if you take the extended for mula that includes momentun
the gama factor can be extracted to the left side of the formula!!!
all the best
Y.Porat
---------------------
.
|
|
|
| User: "kuttu" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
26 May 2005 04:20:40 AM |
|
|
tks mr portal
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
26 May 2005 09:06:59 AM |
|
|
?????????
some coments ???
Y.Porat
-------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
19 May 2005 02:59:38 PM |
|
|
kuttu wrote:
It has generally been belived that no particle can exceed the speed
of
the light.this has meant in turn that in formulating the quantum
theory
of fields it has been tacitly assumed that all the particless
described
by such fields belong to one of two classess
The Wigner classification of the Poincare' group determines all the
possible fundamental system which are consistent with the (Poincare')
principle of relativity. Tachyons come out of this classification, as
well as other types besides the usual massive and massless particle
classes.
Therefore, they are in accord with the principle of relativity.
The same holds for the Galilei group of Newtonian physics, except here
the analogues of the tachyon are the "synchron" (for lack of a better
name), which has zero mass and non-zero momentum; and a 2nd class of
fundamental systems which have 0 mass and 0 momentum. The synchron
provides a transfer of momentum between two parts of space at a set
time and, as such, can be regarded as the mediator of
action-at-a-distance forces in any quantized theory of the force in
question.
The Euclidean group (for a 4-dimensional space, where there are 4
spacelike dimensions, instead of 3 spacelike and 1 timelike), on the
other hand, has nothing corresponding to tachyons.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bjoern Feuerbacher" |
|
| Title: Re: Tachyons is that breakes Einstein's Theory |
19 May 2005 08:39:44 AM |
|
|
kuttu wrote:
It has generally been belived that no particle can exceed the speed of
the light. this has meant in turn that in formulating the quantum theory
of fields it has been tacitly assumed that all the particless described
by such fields belong to one of two classess
1.Those which have a finite rest mass and travel with speeds less than
the speed of light
2. those which have zero rest mass and hence alwayes travel with the
speed of light
Wrong, that has *not* been assumed in formulating the quantum theory
of fields. In fact, essentially nothing about *particles* has been
assumed in formulating this theory. The only assumptions which went
into it were about *fields*.
We may also consider a third class of particles those which travel with
speeds greater than the speed of light this is known as Tachyons
The theory is presented by Mr:E.C.G Sudersan Department of phisics,New
york
I don't think he is the first one to think about this possibility.
And I see that you don't understand the difference between
"hypothesis" and "theory".
So Whom will we truest Einsten or Sudersan?
Einstein's physics does not contradict the existence of tachyons.
Bye,
Bjoern
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
