| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Tobin Fricke" |
| Date: |
31 Mar 2005 09:29:18 PM |
| Object: |
tensors! |
I am trying to get a handle on tensors. Specifically, 'irreducible
tensors'. 'Spherical irreducible tensors' even.
My understanding is that a tensor is a function from V^p (V*)^q into a
field F, where V is a vector space, V* is the dual space (i.e. the space
of linear maps from V into F), and V^n = VxVxVx...xV, where 'x' is the
tensor product. The tensor product is like the cartesian product except
there are some additional equivalence relations on the resulting space,
such as (0,y) = (x,0) = 0. Assuming that (VxV)* = (V*xV*) then you can
say that a tensor is an element of the space (V^p (V*)^q)* which equals
(V*)^p V^q. How's that?
A tensor T is irreducible if it cannot be written as a sum of tensors of
the same rank. This confuses me very much. Given a rank-n tensor on a
d-dimensional space, you can write it out with respect to a basis as an
array of d^n numbers, much as you can write out a representation of a
linear operator as a d-by-d matrix. Every d-by-d matrix represents a
linear operator on a d-dimensional space; similarly, every array of d^n
numbers represents a tensor in a given basis. So what's to stop me from
decomposing this tensor indefinitely into sums -- I can certainly well
write a matrix as a sum of as many other matrices as I desire. There must
be some invariant property that the summed tensors must have in order for
a reduction to be valid -- but I am not sure what this property is.
Is there such a thing as 'irreducible vectors' or 'irreducible matrices'?
I'm told that "A tensor is a representation of a linearly acting group:
GL(n), O(n), U(n), ... depending on what the basic vector space you're
starting with, and whether you have an inner product defined on it," but
I'm not sure what that means. I know what a group representation is: a
homomorphism from the group into GL(n). I suppose 'linearly acting'
refers to a group action.
The usual demonstration of reducibility of tensors starts by taking a
dyadic tensor T_ij = U_i V_j and showing that it can be written as a sum
of a scalar (U dot V delta_ij/3), an antisymmetric part, and a symmetric
traceless part. The demonstration is clear enough, but I am not certain
what is so special about being traceless or about being symmetric or
anti-symmetric. Sakurai then shows that these components have 1, 3, and 5
degrees of freedom, and then makes the leap: "This suggests that the
dyadic has been decomposed into tensors that can transform like spherical
harmonics with l=0, l=1, and 2." This 'suggestion' leaves me really
unconvinced and dissatisfied.
The demonstration that a 'spherical irreducible tensor' can be written in
terms of Wigner function is clear enough, but I don't see the connection
between 'spherical irreducible tensors' and general tensors.
Another big of confusion I have is in the two viewpoints of a tensor both
as 'data' and as an operator. The stress tensor is something I think of
as 'data', and even, say, angular momentum eigenstates seem like 'data'.
Whereas a matrix I usually consider an 'operator'. I assume this is
related to dual spaces -- i.e. a vector is usually 'data', but its dual
is an operator from the vector space into a field. Eh?
Any insights would be appreciated. (-:
Thanks,
Tobin
.
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| User: "George Jones" |
|
| Title: Re: tensors! |
01 Apr 2005 10:55:15 AM |
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Tobin Fricke wrote:
I am trying to get a handle on tensors. Specifically, 'irreducible
tensors'. 'Spherical irreducible tensors' even.
My understanding is that a tensor is a function from V^p (V*)^q into a
field F, where V is a vector space, V* is the dual space (i.e. the space
of linear maps from V into F), and V^n = VxVxVx...xV, where 'x' is the
tensor product. The tensor product is like the cartesian product except
there are some additional equivalence relations on the resulting space,
such as (0,y) = (x,0) = 0. Assuming that (VxV)* = (V*xV*) then you can
say that a tensor is an element of the space (V^p (V*)^q)* which equals
(V*)^p V^q. How's that?
A tensor T is irreducible if it cannot be written as a sum of tensors of
the same rank. This confuses me very much. Given a rank-n tensor on a
d-dimensional space, you can write it out with respect to a basis as an
array of d^n numbers, much as you can write out a representation of a
linear operator as a d-by-d matrix. Every d-by-d matrix represents a
linear operator on a d-dimensional space; similarly, every array of d^n
numbers represents a tensor in a given basis. So what's to stop me from
decomposing this tensor indefinitely into sums -- I can certainly well
write a matrix as a sum of as many other matrices as I desire. There
must be some invariant property that the summed tensors must have in
order for a reduction to be valid -- but I am not sure what this
property is.
Is there such a thing as 'irreducible vectors' or 'irreducible matrices'?
I'm told that "A tensor is a representation of a linearly acting group:
GL(n), O(n), U(n), ... depending on what the basic vector space you're
starting with, and whether you have an inner product defined on it," but
I'm not sure what that means. I know what a group representation is: a
homomorphism from the group into GL(n). I suppose 'linearly acting'
refers to a group action.
The usual demonstration of reducibility of tensors starts by taking a
dyadic tensor T_ij = U_i V_j and showing that it can be written as a sum
of a scalar (U dot V delta_ij/3), an antisymmetric part, and a symmetric
traceless part. The demonstration is clear enough, but I am not certain
what is so special about being traceless or about being symmetric or
anti-symmetric. Sakurai then shows that these components have 1, 3, and
5 degrees of freedom, and then makes the leap: "This suggests that the
dyadic has been decomposed into tensors that can transform like
spherical harmonics with l=0, l=1, and 2." This 'suggestion' leaves me
really unconvinced and dissatisfied.
The demonstration that a 'spherical irreducible tensor' can be written
in terms of Wigner function is clear enough, but I don't see the
connection between 'spherical irreducible tensors' and general tensors.
Another big of confusion I have is in the two viewpoints of a tensor
both as 'data' and as an operator. The stress tensor is something I
think of as 'data', and even, say, angular momentum eigenstates seem
like 'data'. Whereas a matrix I usually consider an 'operator'. I
assume this is related to dual spaces -- i.e. a vector is usually
'data', but its dual is an operator from the vector space into a field.
Eh?
When I was a student, I was mystified by the relationship, if any,
between the spherical tensors of the quantum theory of angular momentum
and the tensors defined as multilinear maps in modern expositions of
relativity (equivalent for finte dimensional spaces to your definition
above of tensor product as a free vector space modded by an appropriate
subspace).
I finally got the relationship straight after my student days were over,
but I have since forgotten it. :-( I think the book the (very nice, if
one is interested in introductory abstract mathematical physics) book
"Group Theory and Physics" by Sternberg helped.
I also meant to say a few word in response to your question about X + iY
on sci.physics.research. Ladder operators are useful for shifting
between weights of representations of Lie algebras. Quantum angular
momentum theory is really just representation theory of (the
complexification of) the rotation Lie algebra su(3). Other Lie algebras,
for expample su(3) in quark theory, use more than 1 independent ladder
operator.
A note of warning: if you're going to look this stuff up in pure math
books, physicists often deal with complexifications of real Lie algebras
without saying that they're doing so. In particular, C(x)su(2) = sl(2,C)
and C(x)su(3) = sl(3,C), so the chapters on sl(2,C) and sl(3,C) in, say,
Fulton and Harris, look like angular momentum theory of su(2) and quark
theory of su(3).
I sorry for throwing so much jargon around and not being very
expository, but I'm moving (Again!) and in a moment of sheer lunacy, I
put 90% of my books, including ALL my books on group theory and
abstract algebra, into storage.
I might have a look at Sternberg in a library next week.
Regards,
George
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| User: "Tobin Fricke" |
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| Title: Re: tensors! |
06 Apr 2005 03:18:15 PM |
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On Fri, 1 Apr 2005, George Jones wrote:
I finally got the relationship straight after my student days were over,
but I have since forgotten it. :-( I think the book the (very nice, if
one is interested in introductory abstract mathematical physics) book
"Group Theory and Physics" by Sternberg helped.
Thanks for the reference: That book looks useful. I've requested it from
the library...
Tobin
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| User: "Timothy Murphy" |
|
| Title: Re: tensors! |
01 Apr 2005 09:55:19 AM |
|
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Tobin Fricke wrote:
Is there such a thing as 'irreducible vectors' or 'irreducible matrices'?
I'm told that "A tensor is a representation of a linearly acting group:
GL(n), O(n), U(n), ... depending on what the basic vector space you're
starting with, and whether you have an inner product defined on it," but
I'm not sure what that means. I know what a group representation is: a
homomorphism from the group into GL(n). I suppose 'linearly acting'
refers to a group action.
I haven't actually come across this terminology,
but I would assume that the writer is referring to the representation
of G < GL(n) in the space <gT: g in G>
spanned the tensors gT, as g runs through G.
It would make sense then to ask if this representation is irreducible,
and I assume this is what is meant by saying that T is irreducible.
One might say, for example, that the identity matrix I
is irreducible under any group G < GL(n).
On the other hand, a general matrix A,
regarded as a tensor of type (1,1),
is not irreducible under GL(n),
For example, suppose n = 2 and J = (0 -1 / 1 0).
Then -J is similar to J, and so I - J is similar to I + J.
Hence I + J is not irreducible under GL(2,C), with the definition above.
since the space <g(I+J)> contains (I + J) + (I - J) = 2I
and so contains the irreducible space <cI: c in C>.
If r is the natural representation of G < GL(n,C) in C^n
then the representation of G in the space of matrices is r'r ,
where r' is the dual of r;
so the question is how this splits into simple parts.
For example, if G = SO(3) then r = r' = J(1) and so
the representation is J(1)^2 = J(0) + J(1) + J(2),
corresponding to the split of the space of 3x3 matrices
into 3 irreducible parts, of dimensions 1, 3 and 5,
namely ...
A vector is irreducible under GL(n) in this sense,
but it is not necessarily irreducible under every group G < GL(n),
eg if G < GL(n,C) is abelian then any irreducible subspace
has dimension 1, and so a vector v is irreducible
if and only if it is a weight vector of G,
--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
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