| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Nick" |
| Date: |
25 Mar 2005 08:57:58 PM |
| Object: |
Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
Why would Schindler's attorney be telling her they are going to remove
her feeding tube if they are talking to a vegetable?
It doesn't make any sense. Why would they even do that
unless she could understand?
It's a lie. She knows they are killing her.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
27 Mar 2005 05:13:00 PM |
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RP wrote:
Morituri-|-Max wrote:
"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in message
news:Lyk1e.47131$5r1.4000830@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
"Morituri-|-Max" <newage@sendarico.net> wrote in message
news:Ufi1e.43024$8D.41662@tornado.texas.rr.com...
"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in message
news:yFa1e.46162$TH1.3934253@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
"> Morituri-|-Max wrote:
The kind of man who honors his wifes wishes?
Well said. It's about time her views were considered. I wouldn't
want
to
be
force fed for years either.
Her views ARE being considered. The fact that they don't agree
with what
YOU want them to is just too bad. And as far as being force fed
for
years,
that's her parents fault, not his.
Think you misunderstood. We're on the same side.
It's hard to know what the full picture is from this distance - but
several
court judges seem to have agreed with the husbands view and
hopefully they
have heard all the arguments that matter.
Roge, must have came in on a late thread and missed the context.
I saw a program with Bill O'reilly where he said there would be NO
downside
to letting her live on while they debated everything again for as
long as it
takes.
My thoughts, even though I am not a christian, is that the downside
is that
she is basically a vegetable who's soul is anchored to her body and
for as
long as they pump food in through the tube she is basically locked
out of
Heaven in a state where she is just an unthinking piece of meat.
Gosh darn, but as long as people like Bill can feel good about
themselves,
who cares what she is going through?
On the contrary, this is a very good argument against those Christian
notions. Here's something along the same lines:
Suppose a person lives for very many years as a perfect example of
humanity, and is truly vested in their Christianity. Along comes a
tragic event and the person suffers brain damage but is otherwise
quite able to care for themselves. They have however developed a
personality disorder as a result of the brain injury that makes them
quite
spontaneous in their actions, and completely uncaring about spiritual
matters or other people.
Where did the old soul go?
Reagan's soul was still there.
Reagan was the paragon of a spiritual person. He was still in there as
a spirit but unable to use his broken brain.
There are very many real life examples of exactly this sort of
scenario, for instance the many people who have suffered an aneurysm
of the Circle-of-Willis. Men with this condition are likely to leave
their families, quit their jobs and their churches if they are
members, and take up residence with a prostitute. Now the question is
this: If the old person is permanently gone, are they dead? And if
the
"person" was just his former set of behaviors, then how can we
justify
linking the "soul" in any way to the body, that is, since exactly the
same body was inhabited by these two very different people? OTOH, we
know in this case, that there was no exchange of souls, there was
only
pressure exerted on the portion of the brain central to discretion.
I may be a little over analytical in my views at times, but dammit,
maybe God made me that way :)
Richard Perry
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| User: "RP" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 09:04:21 AM |
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CWatters wrote:
"> Morituri-|-Max wrote:
The kind of man who honors his wifes wishes?
Well said. It's about time her views were considered. I wouldn't want to be
force fed for years either.
It is argued that most people that jump off a cliff change their mind
on the way down. Oops. If a person is seriously committed to
assisted suicide then they should get a living will, and then accept
the consequences when they've changed their mind but can't tell anyone
that they've changed their mind.
If a verbal statement is accepted in lieu of a signed and legally
binding contract in the state of Florida, then all the more reason to
reevaluate their practices down there. I know a lot of people who in
friendly conversation have stated the same, but I doubt that they had
any idea that they were putting a hit on themselves. Brings to mind a
couple of novels based on that theme.
Even written contracts can be gotten out of if the case is made that
it was signed in haste and without full disclosure of the evidence
required for making a sound decision.
I don't see an argument for a case in the parents favor, but I do see
gaping holes in the logical structure of the law.
Richard Perry
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 09:23:39 AM |
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RP wrote:
I don't see an argument for a case in the parents favor, but I do see
gaping holes in the logical structure of the law.
The Florida state legislature did not pass a law requiring written and
witnessed/notarized living wills and durable powers of attorney in
medical situations. They left a hole either through negligence or
intent. By not having a living will both Michael Schiavo and the
Schinders have spent a bloody fortune on legal services. It this an
accident?
Bob Kolker
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| User: "RP" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 09:58:21 AM |
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robert j. kolker wrote:
RP wrote:
I don't see an argument for a case in the parents favor, but I do see
gaping holes in the logical structure of the law.
The Florida state legislature did not pass a law requiring written and
witnessed/notarized living wills and durable powers of attorney in
medical situations. They left a hole either through negligence or
intent. By not having a living will both Michael Schiavo and the
Schinders have spent a bloody fortune on legal services. It this an
accident?
Subconcious selectionism, neither accident nor conscious intent.
People doing what people do. Although I can picture actual plans of
action being set on the table by those who aren't self deluded about
their greed.
Richard Perry
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 12:55:50 PM |
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"RP" <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3akd4bF5olf3hU1@individual.net...
That's pure BS. Sorry guy, but nobody advances the cause of another
You THINK its BS. That doesn't mean it IS BS.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 05:06:52 AM |
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In article <3akd4bF5olf3hU1@individual.net>,
RP <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
Morituri-|-Max wrote:
"Lefty" <Ye@h.Right> wrote in message
news:7YidneXjpIUdctnfRVn-jg@comcast.com...
I am disgusted that a man can say to the parents of his ex-wife, that
she
should die regardless of how they feel in the matter. I am really very
shocked by this. What kind of man can say this to the mother and father
of
this woman - that they are wrong, and she must die ?
The kind of man who honors his wifes wishes?
That's pure BS. Sorry guy, but nobody advances the cause of another
unless it suits to their own desires first.
Now examine the motives of the parents.
That's human nature, and
it's an irrevocable law. It may come down to the lesser of two evils,
but the lesser of two evils in this case, for the husband, was to turn
it over to the family. He thought this not to be the case because he
confused his own misery with that of his wife's, a person who clearly
wouldn't have known that she was miserable even if she was.
The husband would have a better idea about the wife's misery than
the parents.
<snip>
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
25 Mar 2005 11:45:23 PM |
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Lefty <Ye@h.right> wrote:
I am disgusted that a man can say to the parents of his ex-wife, that she
should die regardless of how they feel in the matter. I am really very
shocked by this. What kind of man can say this to the mother and father of
this woman - that they are wrong, and she must die ?
If this ex-husband has any dignity he will reverse himself.
What ex-husband; there is no ex-husband.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove -spam-sux to reply.
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 02:14:46 AM |
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I am disgusted that a man can say to the parents of his ex-wife, that
she
should die regardless of how they feel in the matter. I am really very
shocked by this. What kind of man can say this to the mother and father
of
this woman - that they are wrong, and she must die ?
If this ex-husband has any dignity he will reverse himself.
What ex-husband; there is no ex-husband.
--
Jim Pennino
Looks like they are still married ? I thought that he had remarried for some
reason. Even still - if you have a general agreement in a family I would say
pull the tube. But when both parents and others are all in disagreement - I
think it's a mistake. At least they could give her morophine and let her die
painlessly.
The observed result is a masterpiece in stupidity.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 05:05:15 AM |
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In article <Z66dndPNvfnXYtnfRVn-hw@comcast.com>,
"Lefty" <Ye@h.Right> wrote:
I am disgusted that a man can say to the parents of his ex-wife, that
she
should die regardless of how they feel in the matter. I am really very
shocked by this. What kind of man can say this to the mother and
father
of
this woman - that they are wrong, and she must die ?
If this ex-husband has any dignity he will reverse himself.
What ex-husband; there is no ex-husband.
--
Jim Pennino
Looks like they are still married ? I thought that he had remarried for
some
reason. Even still - if you have a general agreement in a family I would
say
pull the tube. But when both parents and others are all in disagreement -
I
think it's a mistake. At least they could give her morophine and let her
die
painlessly.
Kovorkian fixed it so that isn't an option.
The observed result is a masterpiece in stupidity.
NOt on the husband's part.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 09:35:37 AM |
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Lefty wrote:
I am disgusted that a man can say to the parents of his ex-wife, that she
should die regardless of how they feel in the matter. I am really very
shocked by this. What kind of man can say this to the mother and father of
this woman - that they are wrong, and she must die ?
Yoo hoo! Michael Schiavo and Terri Schiavo are still married. There has
never been a divorce. And he is also the guardian ad litem under Florida
law. Pay attention to the details. The Devil (and God) are in the details.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "RP" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 12:07:44 AM |
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Lefty wrote:
Why would Schindler's attorney be telling her they are going to
remove
her feeding tube if they are talking to a vegetable?
It doesn't make any sense. Why would they even do that
unless she could understand? <<
COMMENT:
For the theater of it, you doofus. He's an ATTORNEY. The one hired by
the side that wants to keep the tube in. He'd treat her like she was
Albert Einstein if it would help his case.
SBH
I am disgusted that a man can say to the parents of his ex-wife, that she
should die regardless of how they feel in the matter. I am really very
shocked by this. What kind of man can say this to the mother and father of
this woman - that they are wrong, and she must die ?
If this ex-husband has any dignity he will reverse himself.
Aside from the legal mumbo-jumbo, I'm inclined to agree. This is the
flesh and blood of the family members, while the husband is just some
***** that she picked up off the street. He should have no say, period
at this point. Their marriage contract ended when she ceased to be
Terri the wife, and became solely Terri the flesh and blood of her
parents. If they were willing to take on the responsibility, then what
harm was Terri doing to anybody else. I feel empathy for the family
because Terri means something to them, quite a bit, and they will
suffer emotionally more so than they have already been suffering. I
don't see how its anybody else's business, much less the courts. As
descent neighbors we ought to ease suffering at ever turn if it
doesn't cause us suffering in return. That's the very minimum that we
can do; it requires zero effort.
We may be bound to each other through the law, striking a balance
between protections and freedoms, but we come into the world as flesh
and blood, a bond that by very genetic design and predisposition
separates us from others, it cannot be legislated away. It's survival
of the fittest, and that sometimes includes banding together against
external forces. In the old days the husband would've likely been
killed for even suggesting that he has more say over her fate than the
family does, and tortured first if he acted without asking permission
first.
OTOH, the taxpayers whose opinions are excluded cannot be justifiably
bound to support them financially in their desires.
Richard Perry
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 04:43:39 AM |
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it's 15 years now and i think the doctors can tell when it is hopeless
already. here cerebral cortex is gone so she won't come back anyhow, no
matter how long you wait. i feel for her and her family, yet what is
the point of going on? sometimes reality is harsh and you have to face
the fact that it's over and it's time to let go.
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| User: "RP" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 09:14:16 AM |
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wrote:
it's 15 years now and i think the doctors can tell when it is hopeless
already. here cerebral cortex is gone so she won't come back anyhow, no
matter how long you wait. i feel for her and her family, yet what is
the point of going on? sometimes reality is harsh and you have to face
the fact that it's over and it's time to let go.
I agree with that wholeheartedly, but understandably it's a tough
decision that they weren't ready to make. The husband made it for
them, and may be a hero in a sense for doing so, but I don't believe
it was his call, that's the sum of my objections. I don't have a
problem with the judicial system in resolving disputes of this or any
nature, my problem is the state of the laws used in resolving those
disputes. I've been involved in a vaguely similar situation, as no
doubt countless others have. Isn't it time for the legislators to get
their asses in gear and actually do something for a change? The
problem with the legal system is that it's full of people that truly
don't give a ***** what's going on, unless it's going to bring them
some immediate reward. Why tackle these things as they arise and gloss
over them, rather than putting on their thinking caps and going to
work at the job that they signed on to do?
Richard Perry
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
27 Mar 2005 05:32:56 AM |
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In article <3alc84F6b9hrmU1@individual.net>,
RP <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com> wrote:
bryant_j_j@yahoo.com wrote:
it's 15 years now and i think the doctors can tell when it is hopeless
already. here cerebral cortex is gone so she won't come back anyhow, no
matter how long you wait. i feel for her and her family, yet what is
the point of going on? sometimes reality is harsh and you have to face
the fact that it's over and it's time to let go.
I agree with that wholeheartedly, but understandably it's a tough
decision that they weren't ready to make. The husband made it for
them, and may be a hero in a sense for doing so, but I don't believe
it was his call, that's the sum of my objections.
It was his call because of the law. IIRC, parents are third on
the list to make decisions for an adult; the spouse and then
eldest adult child are first and second.
<snip>
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 09:37:04 AM |
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RP wrote:
system is that it's full of people that truly don't give a ***** what's
going on, unless it's going to bring them some immediate reward. Why
tackle these things as they arise and gloss over them, rather than
putting on their thinking caps and going to work at the job that they
signed on to do?
How much have lawyers made on the Schiavo Case? Talk about rewards! Even
if they aren't immediate.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Schoenfeld" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 12:57:24 PM |
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Nick wrote:
Why would Schindler's attorney be telling her they are going to
remove
her feeding tube if they are talking to a vegetable?
It doesn't make any sense. Why would they even do that
unless she could understand?
It's a lie. She knows they are killing her.
You bush-voting right-wing wack-jobs are beginning to annoy me. See to
it that you avoid annoying me any further.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 10:39:17 PM |
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Face up slimeball
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: She knows they are killing her!!! |
25 Mar 2005 09:03:17 PM |
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Nick wrote:
Why would Schindler's attorney be telling her they are going to remove
her feeding tube if they are talking to a vegetable?
It doesn't make any sense. Why would they even do that
unless she could understand?
It's a lie. She knows they are killing her.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: She knows they are killing her! |
25 Mar 2005 09:52:38 PM |
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Nick wrote:
Why would Schindler's attorney be telling her they are going to remove
her feeding tube if they are talking to a vegetable?
It doesn't make any sense. Why would they even do that
unless she could understand?
It's a big lie. She knows they are killing her.
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| User: "Physics Cop" |
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| Title: Re: She knows they are killing her! |
25 Mar 2005 10:41:22 PM |
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Post it a fourth time, you fucking idiot.
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: She knows they are killing her! |
26 Mar 2005 09:09:26 AM |
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Physics Cop ..yer a ucking dumbfuck and I hate the fucking pigs
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 04:53:15 AM |
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On a sunny day (25 Mar 2005 18:57:58 -0800) it happened "Nick"
<macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in
<1111805878.061677.17050@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>:
Why would Schindler's attorney be telling her they are going to remove
her feeding tube if they are talking to a vegetable?
It doesn't make any sense. Why would they even do that
unless she could understand?
It's a lie. She knows they are killing her.
This may well be true.
I think decisions like this should be made by the father in this case.
Not by some unrelated persom with a motive to want her dead.
And, Bush could sign a 'executive order' to have that tube re-installed..
Americans have lost sight of reality and replaced it by a 'book of law'
a long time ago.
The politician GWB does not want to risk anything, it brings him no profit.
Anyways, they have a Bible, a Law book, man the confusion the printing press
brings.
It is a disgrace to slowly torture somebody to death.
And not one Amercan has the guts to go there in a 'free the victim' operation.
What an army, busy killing little children all over the world,
may the bombs fall, it is a hard rain that is going to fall.
BOEM
BOEM
BOEM
BOEM
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 10:45:57 AM |
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There should be a national registry somewhere, probably online at the FDA or
WHO, or maybe Federal DOH.
You should be able to log on to this registry and state your wishes, and
this would become a permanent record which is amendable only by you.
You should be able to document whether you would like to be kept alive in
such situations, or not. You should also be able to select how they will
allow you to die. Personally, I would not want to die of thirst - I would
much prefer the morophine. You have the opportunity to resolve these issues
while you are alive so that your fate will not rest in the hands of a
feuding family, technocratic doctors, and complete strangers on usenet.
Setting up such a website would cost very little, and they could also
collect data regarding organ donations so that if you happen to die anywhere
it can be checked very quickly if you are an organ donor.
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 11:10:14 AM |
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A pice of paper a lawyer wrote is not a contract to kill you if this
happens.
50 times you wanted to die,,
who knows what they want day to day ?
Show me 5 head doc's that are not fuckng nutz.
200 million peope are forced to see a judge kill her.
not a good thing .
This ismuch much more a deep deep allmost silence befor a massive
rage.
Like a silence befor the rage.
The rage in the minds of 200 million americans that will sit with a deep
opinion.
Like the cort has taken the first shot agaisnt the deep opinion of 200
million americans.
Like a silence befor the rage.
Some where in the deepest darkest minds.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 11:27:30 AM |
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Lefty <Ye@h.right> wrote:
There should be a national registry somewhere, probably online at the FDA or
WHO, or maybe Federal DOH.
You should be able to log on to this registry and state your wishes, and
this would become a permanent record which is amendable only by you.
You should be able to document whether you would like to be kept alive in
such situations, or not. You should also be able to select how they will
allow you to die. Personally, I would not want to die of thirst - I would
much prefer the morophine. You have the opportunity to resolve these issues
while you are alive so that your fate will not rest in the hands of a
feuding family, technocratic doctors, and complete strangers on usenet.
Setting up such a website would cost very little, and they could also
collect data regarding organ donations so that if you happen to die anywhere
it can be checked very quickly if you are an organ donor.
There already exist lots of web sites where one can generate such a
document for free.
You then pay about $10 to get it notarized, make copies, and give them
to your family and friends.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove -spam-sux to reply.
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 09:21:13 AM |
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Lefty wrote:
You should be able to log on to this registry and state your wishes, and
this would become a permanent record which is amendable only by you.
How do you insure correct identification of the person making the entry
in your register? You wouldn't want a hostile person making a living
will in your name, would you? I second your emotion but the devil is in
the details. It would be just as easy to download a good-in-any-state
living will form, fill in the blanks and have the instrument notarized
or witnessed. There is probably a notary public working in your city hall.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Terri knows they are killing her!!! |
26 Mar 2005 05:57:25 PM |
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Lefty wrote:
You should be able to log on to this registry and state your wishes, and
this would become a permanent record which is amendable only by you.
How do you insure correct identification of the person making the entry
in your register? You wouldn't want a hostile person making a living
will in your name, would you? I second your emotion but the devil is in
the details. It would be just as easy to download a good-in-any-state
living will form, fill in the blanks and have the instrument notarized
or witnessed. There is probably a notary public working in your city hall.
Bob Kolker
How are you doing these days Bob !!
Long time no post.
I'm not sure how such a thing would work, but it sure seems that such a
database would have resolved this mess. Instead, we have fundies out in full
force trying to kill judges and robbing gun shops, it's almost as if she
stole Jesus's "Easter Thunder" this year.
I personally am a big supporter of very carefully applied euthanasia - I
would not want to live like that myself. But I certainly dont want some
schmuck-hack-doctor doing my thinking for me. If I did not explicity state
in writing that I wish to die in such a circumstance, then any doctor who
terminates me of his own volition is a murderer.
What a mess.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: A husband decides to kill his wife! |
26 Mar 2005 05:59:01 PM |
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Lefty wrote:
Lefty wrote:
You should be able to log on to this registry and state your
wishes, and
this would become a permanent record which is amendable only by
you.
How do you insure correct identification of the person making the
entry
in your register? You wouldn't want a hostile person making a
living
will in your name, would you? I second your emotion but the devil
is in
the details. It would be just as easy to download a
good-in-any-state
living will form, fill in the blanks and have the instrument
notarized
or witnessed. There is probably a notary public working in your
city hall.
Bob Kolker
How are you doing these days Bob !!
Long time no post.
I'm not sure how such a thing would work, but it sure seems that such
a
database would have resolved this mess. Instead, we have fundies out
in full
force trying to kill judges and robbing gun shops, it's almost as if
she
stole Jesus's "Easter Thunder" this year.
I personally am a big supporter of very carefully applied euthanasia
- I
would not want to live like that myself. But I certainly dont want
some
schmuck-hack-doctor doing my thinking for me. If I did not explicity
state
in writing that I wish to die in such a circumstance, then any doctor
who
terminates me of his own volition is a murderer.
What a mess.
Lefty, it is the husband that is making the decision.
The judges won't take that choice away from him!!!
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: A husband decides to kill his wife! |
26 Mar 2005 07:42:34 PM |
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Nick wrote:
[snip crap]
Hey idiot, how may ISPs need we kill you at to shut you up?
FOaD
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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