Science > Physics > Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"hi@anony habshi" |
| Date: |
18 Dec 2006 06:25:23 PM |
| Object: |
Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
excerpt
12-17) 04:00 PST Los Angeles -- All right, no beating around the
high-voltage bush: What is the Tesla Roadster, the dead-sexy,
six-figure, all-electric sports car prototype like to drive?
It's hard to be definitive, since the company could only allow me a
45-minute romp around Marina del Rey, on the west side of Los Angeles,
earlier this month and also because the prototype I drove has been
loved half to death since the car was unveiled at the Santa Monica
Airport in July.
The first gear of the two-speed Xtrac gearbox was closed for business,
bits and pieces of the interior were worn, and the car's maroon
carbon-fiber body panels had to be retouched recently -- I suspect
because of all the suction mounts of all the cameras of all the news
crews that have made the magi-like pilgrimage to Silicon Valley to
adore this revolutionary machine. Simply put, the Tesla Roadster has
been a media sensation. Among its honors, the Roadster was named one
of Time magazine's best inventions of 2006 in the transportation
category.
But I can tell you, even from my brief spin in this dog-eared
prototype, the Tesla Roadster delivers on its promise, which might be
summarized as "stupid fun for smart people." I think the Latin
translation of same should appear on the company crest.
It takes a slight leg hoist and wriggle to get into the car and strap
yourself into the thin carbon shell of a seat -- a holdover from the
Lotus Elise on which the car is based. The seat will change in the
production car since its narrow width doesn't exactly accommodate
"American butts," according Mike Harrigan, Tesla vice president of
marketing.
The cabin is tight and narrow, with driver and passenger as
shoulder-to-shoulder as striking Teamsters. But the view over the hood
is good and the sightlines from the rear mirrors are adequate. I turn
the key. The instrument indicators wink, the bar-graph display by my
left knee scales up and there's a gentle clunk in the rear of the car,
somewhere in the neighborhood of its climate-controlled 50
kilowatt-hour battery pack and the 248-hp electric motor.
I slot the gearshift into the aluminum shift gate and pull away from
the curb, as smooth as Astaire's exit, stage left. Because the car is
based on the capering sport-sprite Elise (and assembled at the Lotus
factory in Hethel, England), the initial sensation, sans engine noise,
is that of being towed off-track after an engine failure. The
impression fades, replaced by the weird feeling of sports-car agility
and thrust, only with severe hearing loss. You never appreciate how
much sound plays a part in performance driving gestalt until you drive
in the Tesla. The only aural clues are the rising and falling whine
and the variable insistence of the wind's buffeting. I suppose you
could download a soundtrack of popping and gargling Lake pipes to play
loudly on the stereo.
Once the transmission is warmed up a bit (by the way, Tesla will use a
dual-clutch gearbox instead of the Xtrac-supplied unit, which has
proved balky), I nail the throttle. It's not the violent,
near-breakaway acceleration of a Porsche 911 or Ferrari F430. It is,
instead, an instant, fluid, irresistible surge that doesn't hesitate
for mechanical housekeeping like gear changes. The oft-quoted number
of 0-60 in 4 seconds is impressive but unfairly limited, since the
real heart-flutters begin after that. The motor torque (about 205
pound-feet) stays constant until about 6,000 rpm then gradually falls
off until about 13,500 rpm, which is dentist-drill territory.
I only dared a few short bursts up to 85 mph before having to choke
off the electrons, but clearly, this car will sling itself up to
three-digit territory like a ride at Six Flags Over Hell.
It's over too soon.
When last we met the Tesla Roadster, it was at a Santa Monica Airport
hangar, where Tesla Chief Executive Martin Eberhard and Chairman Elon
Musk, the deep pockets, threw a party to unveil the prototype -- and
pre-sell the first 100 cars for $100,000 a crack. The plan was to sell
these "Signature" edition cars, then offer the rest of the 2007 model
year cars at $89,000. But not everything went according to plan. In
short order, Tesla had pre-sold 220 cars with the $100,000 price tag.
"Nobody wanted the base model," said Tesla's Harrigan.
Showroom fever lit up the crowd like St. Elmo's fire. Even Chris
Paine, director of this summer's sleeper-hit doc "Who Killed the
Electric Car?" ponied up. "I don't even own my house," says Paine, who
is a familiar figure driving his Toyota RAV4 EV around Santa Monica.
"Now I'll have
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| User: "hi@anony habshi" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 05:40:25 PM |
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Wait till the Koreans start mass producing this car , it will
be cheaper to make than any gas powered one.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 06:35:03 PM |
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In sci.physics habshi <hi@anony> wrote:
Wait till the Koreans start mass producing this car , it will
be cheaper to make than any gas powered one.
Since bonded aluminum parts are not all that amenable to automated
production and assembly, it is hard to see how it could be produced
cheaper than a steel car.
If you make it out of spot welded steel, the weight goes up and the
performance goes down.
Also the motor spins in excess of 13,000 RPM, which will require
greater attention to manufacturing precision than a gas engine
which redlines at a third of that.
Nowhere in all the buzz do I see any numbers for the range when the
temperature gets to 100 and the AC is on continuously.
This car is an expensive toy just like the Hummer.
--
Jim Pennino
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 06:38:01 PM |
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In article <n1dm54-a8f.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Nowhere in all the buzz do I see any numbers for the range when the
temperature gets to 100 and the AC is on continuously.
This car is an expensive toy just like the Hummer.
Where I will disagree with you Jim is because of Lotus. For a small
specialty car maker like Lotus to have pulled this off is pretty
remarkable, and I think it will be interesting to see what is possible
should you decrease performance (after all, not all of us need 0-60 in 4
secs) and pile it onto miles-before-charge.
--
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 07:45:02 PM |
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In sci.physics Phineas T Puddleduck <phineaspuddleduck@googlemail.com> wrote:
In article <n1dm54-a8f.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Nowhere in all the buzz do I see any numbers for the range when the
temperature gets to 100 and the AC is on continuously.
This car is an expensive toy just like the Hummer.
Where I will disagree with you Jim is because of Lotus. For a small
specialty car maker like Lotus to have pulled this off is pretty
remarkable, and I think it will be interesting to see what is possible
should you decrease performance (after all, not all of us need 0-60 in 4
secs) and pile it onto miles-before-charge.
I don't follow you.
The Lotus is also an expensive toy.
--
Jim Pennino
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 07:47:39 PM |
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In article <8vgm54-qao.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Where I will disagree with you Jim is because of Lotus. For a small
specialty car maker like Lotus to have pulled this off is pretty
remarkable, and I think it will be interesting to see what is possible
should you decrease performance (after all, not all of us need 0-60 in 4
secs) and pile it onto miles-before-charge.
I don't follow you.
The Lotus is also an expensive toy.
Perhaps so, but they have produced a performance electric car, something
which other manufacturers have not done.
Like as with most things, the initial efforts are toys. The first
computers and so on. But I think the importance of this is not only it
has been done, but a firm like Lotus (who have a pretty illustrous
history in producing sports cars) managed it.
I hope its successful because that will drive competition, it will drive
people to examine how to increase miles-per-charge. I live in a
reasonably rural area in the UK and fuel charges here are bloody
horrendous.
--
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stupidity here!
http://groups.google.gr/group/sci.physics/msg/f9488b70976a3a4b?&hl=en
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:15:02 PM |
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In sci.physics Phineas T Puddleduck <phineaspuddleduck@googlemail.com> wrote:
In article <8vgm54-qao.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Where I will disagree with you Jim is because of Lotus. For a small
specialty car maker like Lotus to have pulled this off is pretty
remarkable, and I think it will be interesting to see what is possible
should you decrease performance (after all, not all of us need 0-60 in 4
secs) and pile it onto miles-before-charge.
I don't follow you.
The Lotus is also an expensive toy.
Perhaps so, but they have produced a performance electric car, something
which other manufacturers have not done.
Like as with most things, the initial efforts are toys. The first
computers and so on. But I think the importance of this is not only it
has been done, but a firm like Lotus (who have a pretty illustrous
history in producing sports cars) managed it.
I hope its successful because that will drive competition, it will drive
people to examine how to increase miles-per-charge. I live in a
reasonably rural area in the UK and fuel charges here are bloody
horrendous.
They are all too expensive to be successful as Toyota is successful,
and that's not likely to change.
About the only hope for relief in fuel prices in the UK is a revolution.
--
Jim Pennino
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:17:24 PM |
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In article <ciim54-r4s.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Like as with most things, the initial efforts are toys. The first
computers and so on. But I think the importance of this is not only it
has been done, but a firm like Lotus (who have a pretty illustrous
history in producing sports cars) managed it.
I hope its successful because that will drive competition, it will drive
people to examine how to increase miles-per-charge. I live in a
reasonably rural area in the UK and fuel charges here are bloody
horrendous.
They are all too expensive to be successful as Toyota is successful,
and that's not likely to change.
About the only hope for relief in fuel prices in the UK is a revolution.
Lotus have a pretty long track record, and they're no one-trick
ponies.... I'm hoping time will prove you wrong, but I won't hold my
breath! ;-)
--
You know you've arrived when you've annoyed the cranks! Crank Hater proves his
stupidity here!
http://groups.google.gr/group/sci.physics/msg/f9488b70976a3a4b?&hl=en
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:35:02 PM |
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In sci.physics Phineas T Puddleduck <phineaspuddleduck@googlemail.com> wrote:
In article <ciim54-r4s.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Like as with most things, the initial efforts are toys. The first
computers and so on. But I think the importance of this is not only it
has been done, but a firm like Lotus (who have a pretty illustrous
history in producing sports cars) managed it.
I hope its successful because that will drive competition, it will drive
people to examine how to increase miles-per-charge. I live in a
reasonably rural area in the UK and fuel charges here are bloody
horrendous.
They are all too expensive to be successful as Toyota is successful,
and that's not likely to change.
About the only hope for relief in fuel prices in the UK is a revolution.
Lotus have a pretty long track record, and they're no one-trick
ponies.... I'm hoping time will prove you wrong, but I won't hold my
breath! ;-)
Morgan has a pretty long track record too, but how many of them do you
see parked at Wal-Mart, or whatever the UK equivalent is?
--
Jim Pennino
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:36:40 PM |
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In article <21km54-mb3.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Lotus have a pretty long track record, and they're no one-trick
ponies.... I'm hoping time will prove you wrong, but I won't hold my
breath! ;-)
Morgan has a pretty long track record too, but how many of them do you
see parked at Wal-Mart, or whatever the UK equivalent is?
As I said, the point is perhaps they can be the catalyst to get the
technology developed by others...
And funny you mention Morgan. I honest saw one in Asda's car park a few
days ago. Some temporal anomaly perhaps ;-)
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche andrecharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:39:02 PM |
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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
I don't follow you.
The Lotus is also an expensive toy.
Perhaps so, but they have produced a performance electric car, something
which other manufacturers have not done.
Like as with most things, the initial efforts are toys.
Often.
The first
computers and so on. But I think the importance of this is not only it
has been done, but a firm like Lotus (who have a pretty illustrous
history in producing sports cars) managed it.
I reckon PML's hybrid Mini is far more impressive. And practical.
Graham
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:39:39 PM |
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In article <4588A246.D6A35DEB@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
The first
computers and so on. But I think the importance of this is not only it
has been done, but a firm like Lotus (who have a pretty illustrous
history in producing sports cars) managed it.
I reckon PML's hybrid Mini is far more impressive. And practical.
Graham
Got a link to that so I can have a nose at it?
--
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche andrecharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:58:48 PM |
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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
In article <4588A246.D6A35DEB@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
The first
computers and so on. But I think the importance of this is not only it
has been done, but a firm like Lotus (who have a pretty illustrous
history in producing sports cars) managed it.
I reckon PML's hybrid Mini is far more impressive. And practical.
Graham
Got a link to that so I can have a nose at it?
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/08/pmls_inwheel_mo.html
Note the very small 250cc ICE engine to recharge the battery on long runs.
Graham
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:59:46 PM |
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In article <4588A6E8.F75A187A@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/08/pmls_inwheel_mo.html
Note the very small 250cc ICE engine to recharge the battery on long runs.
Graham
Thanks very much! I shall be having a nose at that tomorrow morning.....
--
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| User: "mkbath" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
24 Dec 2006 06:14:47 PM |
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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
In article <n1dm54-a8f.ln1@mail.specsol.com>,
wrote:
Nowhere in all the buzz do I see any numbers for the range when the
temperature gets to 100 and the AC is on continuously.
This car is an expensive toy just like the Hummer.
Where I will disagree with you Jim is because of Lotus. For a small
specialty car maker like Lotus to have pulled this off is pretty
remarkable, and I think it will be interesting to see what is possible
should you decrease performance (after all, not all of us need 0-60 in 4
secs) and pile it onto miles-before-charge.
Lotus didn't build it. It is BASED on a Lotus shell, probably for
weight and aerodynamics, but it is a small start up company that built
the thing. Maybe that is more impressive. Tesla motors or something.
--
You know you've arrived when you've annoyed the cranks! Crank Hater proves his
stupidity here!
http://groups.google.gr/group/sci.physics/msg/f9488b70976a3a4b?&hl=en
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
24 Dec 2006 06:17:21 PM |
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On 2006-12-25 00:14:47 +0000, "mkbath" <kennykabuki@yahoo.com> said:
Lotus didn't build it. It is BASED on a Lotus shell, probably for
weight and aerodynamics, but it is a small start up company that built
the thing. Maybe that is more impressive. Tesla motors or something.
But Lotus were involved with it. The Elise shell (I believe it is an
Elise) was probaby because IIRC Lotus are quite keen on using different
materials for the bodywork etc...
I am no car nut though...!
--
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persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
Carl Sagan
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche andrecharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:37:41 PM |
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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com wrote:
Nowhere in all the buzz do I see any numbers for the range when the
temperature gets to 100 and the AC is on continuously.
This car is an expensive toy just like the Hummer.
Where I will disagree with you Jim is because of Lotus. For a small
specialty car maker like Lotus to have pulled this off is pretty
remarkable
Why remarkable ?
They've ( Lotus ) made F1 cars too. They are consultants to the auto industry, not
some back yard outfit !
Graham
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:38:57 PM |
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In article <4588A1F5.A2AB62F0@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Why remarkable ?
They've ( Lotus ) made F1 cars too. They are consultants to the auto
industry, not
some back yard outfit !
Graham
Because they're comparatively a small player in the auto market... ;-)
--
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stupidity here!
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche andrecharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:46:32 PM |
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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
In article <4588A1F5.A2AB62F0@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
Why remarkable ?
They've ( Lotus ) made F1 cars too. They are consultants to the auto
industry, not some back yard outfit !
Graham
Because they're comparatively a small player in the auto market... ;-)
They're not small in consultancy. Many auto makers have used them over the years
for high performance advice. The first example that comes to mind was Ford's Lotus
Cortina in the 60's.
Graham
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:49:17 PM |
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In article <4588A408.FABC4BBB@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
They're not small in consultancy. Many auto makers have used them over the
years
for high performance advice. The first example that comes to mind was Ford's
Lotus
Cortina in the 60's.
Graham
Oh yeah - and wasn't it an Lotus Talbot as well?
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche andrecharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 09:05:23 PM |
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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
They're not small in consultancy. Many auto makers have used them over the
years
for high performance advice. The first example that comes to mind was Ford's
Lotus Cortina in the 60's.
Graham
Oh yeah - and wasn't it an Lotus Talbot as well?
They did that one too and the Lotus Carlton / Omega for Vauhall-Opel, then the
fastest ( 176mph ) saloon car.
Graham
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 09:07:58 PM |
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In article <4588A873.291332E9@hotmail.com>,
Eeyore <rabbitsfriendsandrelations@hotmail.com> wrote:
They did that one too and the Lotus Carlton / Omega for Vauhall-Opel, then the
fastest ( 176mph ) saloon car.
Graham
I remember the Carlton.... fwooarrrr and I am no car nut either ;-)
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche andrecharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 08:35:45 PM |
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habshi wrote:
Wait till the Koreans start mass producing this car , it will
be cheaper to make than any gas powered one.
No it won't.
The batteries are too expensive.
Besides, do you want it to catch fire like a Dell laptop with you inside ?
Graham
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| User: "hi@anony habshi" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
23 Dec 2006 07:46:23 AM |
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What about an ethanol slow burning engine much like a wick
which recharges a battery ? You have to get the energy from somewhere
and ethanol might be ideal as biostuff can be turned into it.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
23 Dec 2006 10:55:03 AM |
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In sci.physics habshi <hi@anony> wrote:
What about an ethanol slow burning engine much like a wick
which recharges a battery ? You have to get the energy from somewhere
and ethanol might be ideal as biostuff can be turned into it.
What about it?
The efficiency would be in the single digits.
If you are going to use ethanol as a fuel, you are better off using it
to run a conventional engine.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "Eeyore" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche andrecharges in hours |
23 Dec 2006 08:03:10 AM |
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habshi wrote:
What about an ethanol slow burning engine much like a wick
which recharges a battery ? You have to get the energy from somewhere
and ethanol might be ideal as biostuff can be turned into it.
Explain what a 'slow burning engine much like wick' is will you hash-for-brains
?
Graham
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| User: "DmitryKovtun" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
18 Dec 2006 08:46:18 PM |
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"habshi" <hi@anony> wrote in message news:45873087.1381156@news.clara.net...
Once the transmission is warmed up a bit (by the way, Tesla will use a
dual-clutch gearbox instead of the Xtrac-supplied unit, which has
proved balky),
Why have a transmission in an electric car ???
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
18 Dec 2006 09:45:26 PM |
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DmitryKovtun wrote:
"habshi" <hi@anony> wrote in message news:45873087.1381156@news.clara.net...
Once the transmission is warmed up a bit (by the way, Tesla will use a
dual-clutch gearbox instead of the Xtrac-supplied unit, which has
proved balky),
Why have a transmission in an electric car ???
Torque multiplication. Most electric motors have constant torque at
low rpm. Horsepower is torque*rpm/5252. Double the rpm by gearing it
down 2:1 and you have doubled the hp available at that speed. But the
low gearing limits top speed, so you add a higher gear. Just because
an electric car can get along without a transmission doesn't mean it is
the best way to do things.
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
19 Dec 2006 03:37:44 AM |
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<bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message =
news:1166499926.600154.91190@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
|=20
| DmitryKovtun wrote:
| > "habshi" <hi@anony> wrote in message =
news:45873087.1381156@news.clara.net...
| >
| >
| > > Once the transmission is warmed up a bit (by the way, Tesla will =
use a
| > > dual-clutch gearbox instead of the Xtrac-supplied unit, which has
| > > proved balky),
| >
| >
| > Why have a transmission in an electric car ???
|=20
| Torque multiplication. Most electric motors have constant torque at
| low rpm. Horsepower is torque*rpm/5252. Double the rpm by gearing it
| down 2:1 and you have doubled the hp available at that speed. But the
| low gearing limits top speed, so you add a higher gear. Just because
| an electric car can get along without a transmission doesn't mean it =
is
| the best way to do things.
Also used on electric trains, but you cannot multiply horsepower,=20
only torque.=20
Horsepower is defined as work done over time.=20
The exact definition of one horsepower is 33,000 lb.ft./minute.=20
Change the gear 1:2 and you get 16,500 lb. ft. for 2 minutes
Change the gear 1:3 and you get 11,000 lb. ft. for 3 minutes
Change the gear 1:4 and you get 8,250 lb. ft. for 4 minutes
Each case is 1 hp.=20
A man can develop one hp for a few seconds, a horse all day.
A man weighs 220 lb, the stair climb is 10 feet.=20
220 lb * 10 feet is 2200 lb ft.=20
60 seconds in a minute, 550 lb. ft/sec
2200/550 =3D 4 seconds.
How high can the man climb?
Obviously as high as he likes, but it would take me all day.
Your electricity is measured in kilowatt-hours whether 220 Volt
at 0.5 amps or 110 Volts at 1 amp.
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I =
shall move the world. "
--Archimedes
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
23 Dec 2006 12:10:04 PM |
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Sorcerer wrote:
<bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:1166499926.600154.91190@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
|
| DmitryKovtun wrote:
| > "habshi" <hi@anony> wrote in message news:45873087.1381156@news.clara.net...
| >
| >
| > > Once the transmission is warmed up a bit (by the way, Tesla will use a
| > > dual-clutch gearbox instead of the Xtrac-supplied unit, which has
| > > proved balky),
| >
| >
| > Why have a transmission in an electric car ???
|
| Torque multiplication. Most electric motors have constant torque at
| low rpm. Horsepower is torque*rpm/5252. Double the rpm by gearing it
| down 2:1 and you have doubled the hp available at that speed. But the
| low gearing limits top speed, so you add a higher gear. Just because
| an electric car can get along without a transmission doesn't mean it is
| the best way to do things.
Also used on electric trains, but you cannot multiply horsepower,
only torque.
Horsepower is defined as work done over time.
The exact definition of one horsepower is 33,000 lb.ft./minute.
Change the gear 1:2 and you get 16,500 lb. ft. for 2 minutes
Change the gear 1:3 and you get 11,000 lb. ft. for 3 minutes
Change the gear 1:4 and you get 8,250 lb. ft. for 4 minutes
Each case is 1 hp.
The torque produced by an electric motor is proportional to the
current.
The resistance heating in the motor is proportional to the square of
the current.
The rpm is proportional to the voltage.
Volts*amps=watts
If you double the voltage and run twice the rpm the torque and heating
will be the same but it will be making twice the power. The gearing
allows the higher rpm at the same road speed. The gearing does not
make the power. It just allows the motor to operate at a speed where
it can make more power.
In the case where you do not need max power, at higher rpm the same
power is made with less torque. Electrically that is you get the same
power with higher volts and less amps. With less amps there is less
heating. So the motor doesn't get so hot and you can use that energy
to go further.
A man can develop one hp for a few seconds, a horse all day.
A man weighs 220 lb, the stair climb is 10 feet.
220 lb * 10 feet is 2200 lb ft.
60 seconds in a minute, 550 lb. ft/sec
2200/550 = 4 seconds.
How high can the man climb?
Obviously as high as he likes, but it would take me all day.
Your electricity is measured in kilowatt-hours whether 220 Volt
at 0.5 amps or 110 Volts at 1 amp.
"Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world. "
--Archimedes
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: Tesla - electric car does 250miles , is speedier than a Porsche and recharges in hours |
23 Dec 2006 05:10:47 PM |
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|
<bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message =
news:1166897404.606508.221330@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
|=20
| Sorcerer wrote:
| > <bsr3997@my-deja.com> wrote in message =
news:1166499926.600154.91190@t46g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| > |
| > | DmitryKovtun wrote:
| > | > "habshi" <hi@anony> wrote in message =
news:45873087.1381156@news.clara.net...
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > > Once the transmission is warmed up a bit (by the way, Tesla =
will use a
| > | > > dual-clutch gearbox instead of the Xtrac-supplied unit, which =
has
| > | > > proved balky),
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > Why have a transmission in an electric car ???
| > |
| > | Torque multiplication. Most electric motors have constant torque =
at
| > | low rpm. Horsepower is torque*rpm/5252. Double the rpm by =
gearing it
| > | down 2:1 and you have doubled the hp available at that speed. But =
the
| > | low gearing limits top speed, so you add a higher gear. Just =
because
| > | an electric car can get along without a transmission doesn't mean =
it is
| > | the best way to do things.
| >
| > Also used on electric trains, but you cannot multiply horsepower,
| > only torque.
| > Horsepower is defined as work done over time.
| > The exact definition of one horsepower is 33,000 lb.ft./minute.
| > Change the gear 1:2 and you get 16,500 lb. ft. for 2 minutes
| > Change the gear 1:3 and you get 11,000 lb. ft. for 3 minutes
| > Change the gear 1:4 and you get 8,250 lb. ft. for 4 minutes
| >
| > Each case is 1 hp.
|=20
| The torque produced by an electric motor is proportional to the
| current.
Up to magnetic saturation of the iron, after that the windings cook.
Stalled electric motors stink.=20
|=20
| The resistance heating in the motor is proportional to the square of
| the current.
E =3D IR (Ohm's law)
Watts =3D I^2R
What temperature will a 1 ohm resistor reach in a microsecond
if 1 megavolt is applied and the initial temperature is 0 C?
=20
| The rpm is proportional to the voltage.
No way, Jose.
=
http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/5/5d/180px-Shaded_pol=
e_motor.jpg
http://www.tigoe.net/pcomp/img/stepper-wiring.jpg
http://www.vimms.org/stepper.jpg
=20
| Volts*amps=3Dwatts
Only if in phase.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/powfac.html
A power factor of one or "unity power factor" is the goal of any =
electric utility company since if the power factor is less than one, =
they have to supply more current to the user for a given amount of power =
use. In so doing, they incur more line losses. They also must have =
larger capacity equipment in place than would be otherwise necessary. As =
a result, an industrial facility will be charged a penalty if its power =
factor is much different from 1.=20
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AC/AC.htm
=20
| If you double the voltage and run twice the rpm the torque and heating
| will be the same but it will be making twice the power.=20
Give me 100 hp out of this:=20
http://www.pageantofpeace.org/images/2005/dec01/train.jpg
746 volts * 100 amps should do it.
This one you might manage it with 25 kV to play with.
http://frontiernet.net/~arblog/london/mini-DSC02141.JPG
You are not ready to play with 25 kV yet,=20
http://www.railway-technical.com/ohl001.gif
better use the third rail.
http://www.nia.org/general/images/3rd_r2.jpg
=20
| The gearing
| allows the higher rpm at the same road speed. The gearing does not
| make the power. It just allows the motor to operate at a speed where
| it can make more power.
You cannot "make more power". Try it and you'll make a fire.
A buddy of mine was a train driver. He told me (and I have no
reason to doubt him) that hauling out of Dover he was carefully
watching the ammeter creep up to 3000 amps with the train
barely moving, it's a steep climb. Go over and the breaker will=20
trip, causing delays.
http://tinyurl.com/yesxts
Note the 3000 amp 1000 V disconnect.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/6182155.stm
"Kevin Craswell used the track as a pillow and had his feet inches from =
the live rail at Epsom, Surrey. "
Now that is an IDIOT. :-)
Anyway, train drivers are supplied with a shorting bar for such =
emergencies.
My buddy was skeered to use it, and so would I be.
http://www.tmeltd.co.uk/pickaxe.jpg
| In the case where you do not need max power, at higher rpm the same
| power is made with less torque. =20
False, by definition of power.=20
http://www.web-cars.com/math/horsepower.html
| Electrically that is you get the same
| power with higher volts and less amps. With less amps there is less
| heating. So the motor doesn't get so hot and you can use that energy
| to go further.
You've a lot to learn, son, and the first thing to learn is not to
try to teach grandpa how to suck eggs.
There is no teacher like experience, I gave you the definition
of power below and before you posted.=20
|=20
| > A man can develop one hp for a few seconds, a horse all day.
| >
| > A man weighs 220 lb, the stair climb is 10 feet.
| > 220 lb * 10 feet is 2200 lb ft.
| > 60 seconds in a minute, 550 lb. ft/sec
| > 2200/550 =3D 4 seconds.
| > How high can the man climb?
| > Obviously as high as he likes, but it would take me all day.
| >
| > Your electricity is measured in kilowatt-hours whether 220 Volt
| > at 0.5 amps or 110 Volts at 1 amp.
| >
| > "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and =
I shall move the world. "
| > --Archimedes
|
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