Science > Physics > The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime
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Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Perspicacious" |
| Date: |
24 Aug 2005 08:31:37 AM |
| Object: |
The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime |
wrote:
Minkowski was the first to present a complete mathematical
formulation of spacetime.
Please define what you mean by "complete."
Spacetime geometry, or any geometry, is "defined by a group of
transformations, and investigates everything that is invariant
under the transformations of this given group." Weyl 1952, p. 133.
http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity/generalized.htm
For example: "The geometry of Minkowski space is defined by
the Poincar=E9 group." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poincar%C3%A9_group
Poincar=E9 was the first to mention the group structure of the
Lorentz transformation and the first to find invariants of that
group. I think it's obvious that not all invariants of the Poincar=E9
group have been found.
I'm fairly certain that the first person to revise Einstein's poor
formulation of special relativity in terms of physics is Eugene
Shubert.
http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity/special.pdf
http://www.everythingimportant.org/viewtopic.php?t=3D1100
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| User: "Bilge" |
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| Title: Re: The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime |
26 Aug 2005 08:34:07 PM |
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Perspicacious:
schoenfeld1@gmail.com wrote:
Minkowski was the first to present a complete mathematical
formulation of spacetime.
Please define what you mean by "complete."
Spacetime geometry, or any geometry, is "defined by a group of
transformations, and investigates everything that is invariant
under the transformations of this given group." Weyl 1952, p. 133.
http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity/generalized.htm
For example: "The geometry of Minkowski space is defined by
the Poincar=E9 group." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poincar%C3%A9_group
Poincar=E9 was the first to mention the group structure of the
Lorentz transformation and the first to find invariants of that
group. I think it's obvious that not all invariants of the Poincar=E9
group have been found.
Try using your browser to search for something other than your own
crackpot website. Finding the invariants of the poincare group is a
standard exercise in lots of different contexts (since obviously there can
be different representations). How do you think relativistic quantum field
theory was developed?
I'm fairly certain that the first person to revise Einstein's poor
formulation of special relativity in terms of physics is Eugene
Shubert.
Obviously, other crackpots in this newsgroup think the same
thing about their nutty ideas.
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| User: "Perspicacious" |
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| Title: Re: The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime |
26 Aug 2005 10:48:12 PM |
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Bilge wrote:
Finding the invariants of the poincare group is a
standard exercise
If you believe that all the invariants of the Poincar=E9 group
have been found, how many Poincar=E9 invariants are there
and who found the very last one?
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| User: "Bilge" |
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| Title: Re: The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime |
26 Aug 2005 10:58:05 PM |
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Perspicacious:
Bilge wrote:
Finding the invariants of the poincare group is a
standard exercise
If you believe that all the invariants of the Poincar=E9 group
have been found, how many Poincar=E9 invariants are there
and who found the very last one?
10 and your second question makes no sense. The 10 you choose
depend upon the represention you choose.
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| User: "Perspicacious" |
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| Title: Re: The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime |
26 Aug 2005 11:03:29 PM |
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Bilge wrote:
Finding the invariants of the poincare group is a
standard exercise
If you believe that all the invariants of the Poincare
group have been found, how many Poincare invariants are
there and who found the very last one?
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| User: "Eugene Shubert" |
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| Title: Re: The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime |
27 Aug 2005 08:07:51 PM |
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Bilge wrote:
Perspicacious wrote:
Bilge wrote:
Finding the invariants of the poincare group is a
standard exercise
If you believe that all the invariants of the Poincar=E9 group
have been found, how many Poincar=E9 invariants are there
and who found the very last one?
10 and your second question makes no sense. The 10 you
choose depend upon the represention you choose.
I don't understand how physicists can be so knowledgeable about
the exact processes that brought the universe into existence out
of nothingness yet know so little of mathematics as to think
that the number of invariants of the Poincar=E9 group somehow
equals the number of parameters of that group.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: The First to Present a Complete Mathematical Formulation of Spacetime |
26 Aug 2005 09:00:03 PM |
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Please define what you mean by "complete."
**********************
Complete, like many other concepts, must be cybernetically tied to a
system. What is complete in one system may not be complete in another.
If a system is incomplete, say due to Godel's construction, then one
must joots to the metasystem to seek completeness. Of couse, at the
highest level, the General System (which includes all space and time
knowledge out to the causal horizon plus all that's beyond it, whether
it be infinite or not), all is complete and consistent. And it all
sits on the back of an infinite regress of turtles.
Darlene, what's that? You want to go to a movie? OK, what do ewe want
to see? "A Beautiful Mind"? OK. Get out of that Lassie costume and
put a dress on.
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