Science > Physics > The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons.
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Tom Potter" |
| Date: |
30 Mar 2007 11:43:07 PM |
| Object: |
The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
the small gang that profits from General Relativity
is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
the costs to society of General Relativity.
No doubt, General Relativity is the model of choice,
if one wants to design a time travel machine,
or warp through space machine,
or create worm holes,
or speculate on things beyond man's
capacity to ever experience in time and space,
BUT
if one wants to design things like computers, bridges, mechanisms,
engines,
communications systems and *** GPS Systems ***,
General Relativity is an enormous waste of time, money and resources.
Although any competent systems engineer KNOWS that
General Relativity is not, and was not, essential to the GPS system,
the same small gang that profits
in reputation and income from General Relativity
constantly make such a claim.
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/HTML/wrong.html
"GTR isn't working in the GPS": this simply isn't so; see these
papers.
http://www.arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0507121
Introducing Relativity in Global Navigation Satellite Systems
Authors: J.-F. Pascual-Sanchez
(Submitted on 28 Jul 2005 (v1), last revised 13 Dec 2006 (this
version, v3))
Abstract: Today, the Global Navigation Satellite Systems, used as
global positioning systems, are the GPS and the GLONASS. They are
based on a Newtonian model and hence they are only operative when
several relativistic effects are taken into account. The most
important relativistic effects (to order 1/c^2) are: the Einstein
gravitational blue shift effect of the satellite clock frequency
(Equivalence Principle of General Relativity) and the Doppler red
shift of second order,
due to the motion of the satellite (Special Relativity).
http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/index.html
The Global Positioning System (GPS) uses accurate, stable atomic
clocks in satellites and on the ground to provide world-wide position
and time determination. These clocks have gravitational and motional
frequency shifts which are so large that, without carefully accounting
for numerous relativistic effects, the system would not work.
Note that the GTR charlatans constantly try to con the masses into
thinking
that the effects of distance (Hubble Effect),
velocity (Doppler Effect),
and acceleration (Galileo Effect)
on the frequency of oscillating systems,
are General Relativity effects.
So far, I haven't seen any effort on their part
to claim the GTR must be used to compensate for
temperature, humidity, jerk, snap, crackle and pop effects.
As can be see from reading Chris Hillman's web site,
he aggressively attacks General Relative critics PERSONALLY,
rather than simply demonstrate a few cost effective uses of GTR.
One would think that if the GTR promoters possessed
such powerful, esoteric knowledge, that they would use their
knowledge to make a few billion dollars in the free market,
and they would not have be on the taxpayer's dole.
Note that in trying to discredit GTR critics,
Chris Hillman used the word "crank" more than thirty times,
and used the Web site of an unemployed computer programmer,
who took some data processing classes at a third rate California
college,
as his main reference.
Regarding Chris Hillman's statement:
========================
"The Politics of Anti-Science
In my view, antiscientific activity by organized political pressure
groups has nothing to do with science or reason.
Rather, such activity is motivated by power and fear.
Fear:
On the one hand, some people fear (sometimes correctly, often not)
that science is somehow directly "contradicting"
the validity of their religious or philosophical convictions, and this
has led some religious groups
to condemn such cornerstones of modern science as the theory of
evolution
and the standard Hot Big Bang model of cosmology,
preferring to stick to the literal truth of the creation story told in
the Bible,
or in more subtle ways to dispute the role of science as an arbiter of
"natural truth".
Power:
Science is universally respected, even by those who fear it, and with
good reason:
almost every citizen of the "developed world" recognizes
that nowadays common citizens live better than kings of old
because of the benefits of technology which grew out of basic
scientific research.
Scientists (and mathematicians) have almost become secular demigods,
and it should be no surprise that those religious and political
groups
which are hostile to science but which do not dare to condemn
scientific activity altogether,
have tried to co-opt scientific theories by claiming that these
theories
somehow "prove" the validity of their religious or political beliefs.
=============
As can be seen by the logical fallacies used by Chris Hillman
in his efforts to discredit GTR critics,
the GTR gang is motivated by "power and fear"
(And the taxpayer's money),
and although "Science is universally respected",
charlatans who pretend to possess powerful, esoteric knowledge
and cannot demonstrate this in the free market,
ARE NOT.
After Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
.
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| User: "Don Stockbauer" |
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| Title: Re: Hallmark cards we'll never see. |
05 Apr 2007 05:37:20 AM |
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On Apr 4, 8:42 pm, Jeff...Relf <Jeff_R...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
Hi Don_Stockbauer, Thanks for the fortune cookie.
I don't think Endless Discussion (ED syndrome) makes a very good FC.
They usually say something like "You will drive off the highway going
home from this restaurant, wind up in a creek and get eaten by rats"
How's Duckie? Still porkin' her? We haven't talked in so long.
Don't be a stranger, Jeff!
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: For a gram of dope. |
05 Apr 2007 06:04:34 AM |
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Hi Don_Stockbauer, As you well know, I never " porked " Duckie.
I spent 800 U.S. dollars on her puppy, Wimpels,
and she made my rent soar from 250 a month to 430 !
Don't forget the cost of moving and the eviction.
In short, I got fucked. I may yet wind up homeless.
As I told T.J... Billionaires care for the cute ones... Wonderful.
But who cares for the bloody dope fiend who steals
and couldn't rent even if he had the money ?
People like that will take your 30 thousand dollar car
or 4 thousand dollar bike and sell it for a gram of dope.
James ( the homeless dude ) only got $ 5.25 an hour for operating
a fork lift in Nevada... yet he paid his child support for years !
He got his vasectomy when he was just 20 years old !
They took his beloved driver's license ( and kids ) away,
assigned him automatic, never expiring leins,
and are charging him 12 percent per year in " penalties and interest ".
He weeps outloud for his kids... No wonder he injects.
My neighbor who called the landlord after seeing the bloody needle
in the fuckin' _ shared _ bathroom is more insane than James ever was !
The landlord who who told me I had 10 days to
" Comply, Vacate or be Evicted. " is also more insane than James !
When I got evicted last year, I got _ Zero _ days notice,
the lease was simply up and she _ Almost _ took my check.
I had been renting from her ( with no rental agreement ) for 5 years,
I thought we were friends. Then came the _ 2 _ month lease.
But she balked after one of my _ Insane _ neighbors came out
to *****, fight and moan. Where's the tolerance ? I don't see it.
The judge simply said,
" The lease is up, you're evicted, pay the court costs, etc. ".
I can't afford to move...
so, from now on, I'm not letting _ Anyone _ into my room.
If Jesus were alive today he'd be nailed to the cross again
by the same gang of law-obsessed, inhumane government stooges.
So I stay " judgement proof ".
.
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| User: "T Wake" |
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| Title: Re: For a gram of dope. |
05 Apr 2007 06:29:52 AM |
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"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_5_3_@Cotse.NET...
Hi Don_Stockbauer, As you well know, I never " porked " Duckie.
I spent 800 U.S. dollars on her puppy, Wimpels,
and she made my rent soar from 250 a month to 430 !
Don't forget the cost of moving and the eviction.
In short, I got fucked. I may yet wind up homeless.
As I told T.J... Billionaires care for the cute ones... Wonderful.
But who cares for the bloody dope fiend who steals
and couldn't rent even if he had the money ?
People like that will take your 30 thousand dollar car
or 4 thousand dollar bike and sell it for a gram of dope.
James ( the homeless dude ) only got $ 5.25 an hour for operating
a fork lift in Nevada... yet he paid his child support for years !
He got his vasectomy when he was just 20 years old !
They took his beloved driver's license ( and kids ) away,
assigned him automatic, never expiring leins,
and are charging him 12 percent per year in " penalties and interest ".
He weeps outloud for his kids... No wonder he injects.
My neighbor who called the landlord after seeing the bloody needle
in the fuckin' _ shared _ bathroom is more insane than James ever was !
The landlord who who told me I had 10 days to
" Comply, Vacate or be Evicted. " is also more insane than James !
When I got evicted last year, I got _ Zero _ days notice,
the lease was simply up and she _ Almost _ took my check.
I had been renting from her ( with no rental agreement ) for 5 years,
I thought we were friends. Then came the _ 2 _ month lease.
But she balked after one of my _ Insane _ neighbors came out
to *****, fight and moan. Where's the tolerance ? I don't see it.
The judge simply said,
" The lease is up, you're evicted, pay the court costs, etc. ".
I can't afford to move...
so, from now on, I'm not letting _ Anyone _ into my room.
If Jesus were alive today he'd be nailed to the cross again
by the same gang of law-obsessed, inhumane government stooges.
So I stay " judgement proof ".
It is quite sad, the lengths you will go to in order that you can justify
your pitiful lifestyle "choices."
.
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: For a gram of dope. |
05 Apr 2007 07:12:34 AM |
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In article <Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_5_3_@Cotse.NET>,
JeffRelf <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
When I got evicted last year, I got _ Zero _ days notice,
the lease was simply up and she _ Almost _ took my check.
I had been renting from her ( with no rental agreement ) for 5 years,
I thought we were friends. Then came the _ 2 _ month lease.
But she balked after one of my _ Insane _ neighbors came out
to *****, fight and moan. Where's the tolerance ? I don't see it.
Stop being such a deadbeat leech.
--
Painius admits he cannot answer a single question to NB:
"Yes, you're right of course, NB. And they get very useless very quickly.
I shall do my best to ignore them, as you wish."
.
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| User: "Don Stockbauer" |
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| Title: Re: For a gram of dope. |
05 Apr 2007 06:33:11 AM |
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On Apr 5, 5:04 am, Jeff...Relf <Jeff_R...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
Hi Don_Stockbauer, As you well know, I never " porked " Duckie.
I spent 800 U.S. dollars on her puppy, Wimpels,
and she made my rent soar from 250 a month to 430 !
Don't forget the cost of moving and the eviction.
In short, I got fucked. I may yet wind up homeless.
As I told T.J... Billionaires care for the cute ones... Wonderful.
But who cares for the bloody dope fiend who steals
and couldn't rent even if he had the money ?
People like that will take your 30 thousand dollar car
or 4 thousand dollar bike and sell it for a gram of dope.
James ( the homeless dude ) only got $ 5.25 an hour for operating
a fork lift in Nevada... yet he paid his child support for years !
He got his vasectomy when he was just 20 years old !
They took his beloved driver's license ( and kids ) away,
assigned him automatic, never expiring leins,
and are charging him 12 percent per year in " penalties and interest ".
He weeps outloud for his kids... No wonder he injects.
My neighbor who called the landlord after seeing the bloody needle
in the fuckin' _ shared _ bathroom is more insane than James ever was !
The landlord who who told me I had 10 days to
" Comply, Vacate or be Evicted. " is also more insane than James !
When I got evicted last year, I got _ Zero _ days notice,
the lease was simply up and she _ Almost _ took my check.
I had been renting from her ( with no rental agreement ) for 5 years,
I thought we were friends. Then came the _ 2 _ month lease.
But she balked after one of my _ Insane _ neighbors came out
to *****, fight and moan. Where's the tolerance ? I don't see it.
The judge simply said,
" The lease is up, you're evicted, pay the court costs, etc. ".
I can't afford to move...
so, from now on, I'm not letting _ Anyone _ into my room.
If Jesus were alive today he'd be nailed to the cross again
by the same gang of law-obsessed, inhumane government stooges.
So I stay " judgement proof ".
One wonders how many such stories are possible. Must be just shy of
infinity. And of what import are they except as cheap fiction
material? I've seen the Star Avengers attack near the tail of the
Scorpion. Alvin, in the year 1,000,000,000 AD - How's it going, bud?
.
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: For a gram of dope. |
05 Apr 2007 09:50:04 PM |
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would you move for $ 100 month rent ?
its a house , all utilites paid included.
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: Sure, T.J., I'll try it. |
06 Apr 2007 12:50:10 AM |
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Hi T.J., You asked me, " Would you move for $ 100 month rent ?
it's a house , all utilites paid included. ".
Sure, T.J., I'll try it.
But all I know is printers and courseware, not ships.
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Sure, T.J., I'll try it. |
06 Apr 2007 11:53:25 AM |
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In article <Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_5_17_@Cotse.NET>,
JeffRelf <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
Hi T.J., You asked me, " Would you move for $ 100 month rent ?
it's a house , all utilites paid included. ".
Sure, T.J., I'll try it.
But all I know is printers and courseware, not ships.
Its ok, you'll earn money alright. Just wash and bathe...
--
Painius admits he cannot answer a single question to NB:
"Yes, you're right of course, NB. And they get very useless very quickly.
I shall do my best to ignore them, as you wish."
.
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: Sure, T.J., I'll try it. |
06 Apr 2007 01:18:51 PM |
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thats on dry land.
in ohio.
the ghost town i just bought.
You get 100 month rent ,,
cable , own bath shower kitchen ,,no junk its a nice place ,,electric
gas water all paid ,
The owner smokes pot , plows the dirt ,,its on the lake at the edge of
town where 2 million people go ,,bars , cars , bike paths ,,
I own the entrie ghost town .
Id care less what you do.. pay 100 bucks month
spend all day on net no one gives a *****.
your rent pays the taxes.
I own the power plant and just biult it.
I got the town so cheep my hand swet when I wrote the check.
You get the best place in town beside the lake.
a bus from seattle to his town is about $ 130
first month is free then.
it furnished ,,new evrything ,,washer dyer ,fridge water heater all
still tag.
next to lake eire
10 mile from cleveland
no one else lives in this town.
2 million people pay to see it but not directly they just spend money
there.
300,000 get drunk and stoned in the 4 bars all summer long.
it was the price of a ship 45 mil so I paid cash for the entire town.
You could open a store or dont do *****.
Ill never see it.
I saw it ,its real nice place.
Its a cape cod styal house with allot of white railings . The siding is
gold with white trim.
it has air , new carpet ,,
.
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: I love seaside mountains and clouds, Ohio is flat and sunny. |
06 Apr 2007 07:09:03 PM |
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Hi T.J., I have 95 dollars cash, total.
Unless this " Ghost Town " has a Grayhound station,
I'd need a ride.
I love seaside mountains and clouds, Ohio is flat and sunny.
I'm not so sure I could live there.
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| User: "T Wake" |
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| Title: Re: I love seaside mountains and clouds, Ohio is flat and sunny. |
07 Apr 2007 04:42:02 PM |
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"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_6_2_@Cotse.NET...
Hi T.J., I have 95 dollars cash, total.
Well that is $100 more than you deserve.
Unless this " Ghost Town " has a Grayhound station,
I'd need a ride.
Why dont you ask Frazir to pay for your journey. He can easily do this
without revealing who he is...
I love seaside mountains and clouds, Ohio is flat and sunny.
I'm not so sure I could live there.
Yeah, all that sunlight and air...
.
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Sure, T.J., I'll try it. |
06 Apr 2007 01:27:57 PM |
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In article <5554-46168F0B-14@storefull-3215.bay.webtv.net>,
(tj Frazir) wrote:
Id care less what you do.. pay 100 bucks month
You don't get that in pocket money...
--
Painius admits he cannot answer a single question to NB:
"Yes, you're right of course, NB. And they get very useless very quickly.
I shall do my best to ignore them, as you wish."
.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
01 Apr 2007 11:30:35 PM |
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Tom Potter wrote:
As a guy who thinks that the time and money spent on projects
should be determine by the free market,
I hate to see the taxpayer's money wasted
on trying to rationalize a 100 year old model
that generates more hype and heat
than light and advances.
Yes--you go on and on with your boiler plate responses every time.
Why, Potter, do you give a *****? You don't understand GTR... Why do
you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
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| User: "Tom Potter" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
02 Apr 2007 05:55:46 AM |
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"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:LF%Ph.
25697$oV.25105@attbi_s21...
Tom Potter wrote:
As a guy who thinks that the time and money spent on projects
should be determine by the free market,
I hate to see the taxpayer's money wasted
on trying to rationalize a 100 year old model
that generates more hype and heat
than light and advances.
Yes--you go on and on with your boiler plate responses every time.
Why, Potter, do you give a *****? You don't understand GTR... Why do
you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
I was disappointed to see that "Sam Wormley" used his
"boiler plate response" of attacking the messenger,
rather than addressing the message
in a rational, intelligent, MORAL way,
and his crazy notion that folks
who have not wasted a lot of time, money, energy and resources
studying astrology, voodoo, feng shai, cold fusion, etc.
should not care about, nor "condemn something <they>don't understand".
I, for one, think that things of value
can stand alone in a free and open market,
and I will be looking for the day
that the General Relativity Charlatans
(Who make all kinds of claims about GTR,
and personally attack critics of GTR.)
get off the taxpayers dole
and make a few billion bucks in the free market.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
02 Apr 2007 09:53:25 AM |
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Tom Potter wrote:
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:LF%Ph.
25697$oV.25105@attbi_s21...
Yes--you go on and on with your boiler plate responses every time.
Why, Potter, do you give a *****? You don't understand GTR... Why do
you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
I was disappointed to see that "Sam Wormley" used his
"boiler plate response" of attacking the messenger,
rather than addressing the message
in a rational, intelligent, MORAL way,
I'm asking you a question, Potter: Why, Potter, do you give a
*****? Especially since you have no understanding of GTR! Why do
you care? How can you condemn something you don't understand?
.
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| User: "Tom Potter" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
31 Mar 2007 10:24:57 AM |
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"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:M8nPh.
18564$_c5.5824@attbi_s22...
Tom Potter wrote:
As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
the small gang that profits from General Relativity
is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
the costs to society of General Relativity.
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
Sam, I just hate to see time, money and minds
WASTED on a lousy model.
For example, after Newton's model,
there were immediate and rapid advances
in mechanics, astronomy, etc.
After Maxwell's model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in chemistry, electricity, etc.
After Watson's and Crick's DNA model
there were immediate and rapid advances
in medicine, genetics, animal husbandry,
the history of the Earth and Mankind, etc.
I just noticed in the news today that the DNA model
was recently used to create a new form of rice,
that will keep hundreds of thousands of kids
from going blind.
Here we are, 100 years after General Relativity
and it continues to generate more hype and heat
than light and advances.
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
One would think that if the GTR Charlatans
possessed such powerful knowledge,
that they would enter the free market
like the guys from Microsoft, Google, Yahoo, Intel,
Texas Instruments, Apple, etc. and make billions of dollars,
rather than sucking up billions of dollars from the taxpayers.
A mind (Or an eye) is a terrible thing to waste.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp/
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter/
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
.
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
31 Mar 2007 04:23:43 PM |
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On Mar 31, 7:24 am, "Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
"Sam Wormley" <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:M8nPh.
18564$_c5.5824@attbi_s22...
Tom Potter wrote:
As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
the small gang that profits from General Relativity
is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
the costs to society of General Relativity.
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
Sam, I just hate to see time, money and minds
WASTED on a lousy model.
In what way is it lousy, Tom?
[snip boring diatribe]
Yes Tom, we know. As a salesman, you don't like or even understand
basic science unless it generates a product. As a result, you think
all research is a waste of time. You don't have to keep reminding us
of your ignorance every fucking time you post.
.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
31 Mar 2007 04:34:09 PM |
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Tom Potter wrote:
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message news:M8nPh.
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
Sam, I just hate to see time, money and minds
WASTED on a lousy model.
In what way is GTR a lousy model? How is it pinching your balls?
.
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| User: "OsherD" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
31 Mar 2007 02:55:54 AM |
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On Mar 30, 10:24 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
From Osher Doctorow: Potter is presumably in a different time zone or
away on some chore, but I'll be glad to reply to your post which makes
trolls look innocent (that's a new one - the "Innocent Troll,"
presented by Jane Fonda and George Soros whose youth was spent in the
Nazi SS). If you understand General Relativity so well, why do you
keep posting full articles by other people with no or minimal
comment? Do you want people to give you attention? No? Gee, the
first case of a "really humanitarian physicist" in history! If
you're doing it for humanity, how is it that you classify as a troll
somebody who merely presents a theory of his own (like me) that
doesn't agree with the "Mainstream" theory? Is your definition of
humanity the "Mainstream" or "majority," and if so, where do you plan
to hide when the Minorities overrun you?
Osher
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
31 Mar 2007 11:07:11 PM |
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Kosher "OsherD" <mdoctorow@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1175327754.008720.243420@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
"Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
Tom Potter
Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
Kosher "OsherD" <mdoctorow@comcast.net> wrote
I agree with Tom Potter. Apparently they've even got Sam Wormley
From Osher Doctorow to Sam Wormley:
Potter is presumably in a different time zone or away
on some chore, but I'll be glad to reply to your post :...
George Soros whose youth was spent in the Nazi SS
[hanson to Osher]
..... ahaha... AHAHAHA...Osher, you too seem to be in different
time zone, for several reasons. What does Soros have to do with
GR?... Most of the 400'000 web-sites say that Soros is Jewish,
born as George Schwartz . So, since when were there Jews
in the Nazi SS?... ahahahaha... But, OTOH, Soros maybe an
in-law to Alan Schwartz, your bosom buddy Uncle Al... ahaha...
Uncle Al ought to hit on his bro-in-kin George for some $MM to
finance his, Al's fabulous inventions, like his organic cockroach
poison, his Kg-sized Diamonds, the Eotvoes thing, and now the
chiro-caloric Benzil experiment... ahahahaha....
[Osher to Sam]
If you [Sam] understand General Relativity so well, why do you
keep posting full articles by other people with no or minimal
comment? Do you want people to give you attention? No?
Gee, the first case of a "really humanitarian physicist" in history!
If you're doing it for humanity, how is it that you classify as a troll
somebody who merely presents a theory of his own (like me) that
doesn't agree with the "Mainstream" theory? Is your definition of
humanity the "Mainstream" or "majority," and if so, where do you
plan to hide when the Minorities overrun you?
Osher
[hanson to Osher]
..... ahahahaha... Osher your complaints against Sam may have
some foundation for you are the only one amongst the posters
with a teacher background who doesn't proselytize status quo PC
*****. Kudos to you for that. However, your "Minorities overrun"
notion, that is a real long shot when it comes to GR. You might as
well hope that Jews become Moslems and visa versa... GR is a
religion, a belief system, that strayed away from the empirical and
real world physics, as shown in
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wabnigga_saga.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/96c1fde68777bc9f
wherein it says
GR is even worse of a con then is SR, because it is nothing but circular
dance and playing around with Newton's revered G. As long as Einstein
uses Newton's G in his equations he carries with him , unavoidably, all the
baggage, the short comings and defects attributed to Newton's G that
REL is trying to get (unsuccessfully) rid of.
..... ....
So, GR = BFD... and it doesn't change that fact no matter how much
they twist and convolute the situation with frame dragging, matrices or
barks & repeats of "GPS works", like loudmouthed fanatic-Al does.
Nor does it matter how many Einstein Dinglerry-come-latelies do write
lengthy Ashby type treatises decades later in the hope to garnish some
irrational fame with/from REL. All of them will remain by definition under
the towering influence and governing hand of Newton and his G from
which they so far have tried to escape in absolute, not relative, vain...
So the only truly positive fact is that they TRY to ESCAPE. That's good.
.....
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wabnigga_saga.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/96c1fde68777bc9f
# =3= of =8= official reasons in the above links show that even the
mastser himself has doubts. Einstein said close to the end of his life
in 1954 to Besso:
"I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based
on the field concept, i. e., on continuous structures. In that
case nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation
theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics." -- A.E.
ahahaha... ahahaha... ahahahanson
.
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
31 Mar 2007 11:33:56 PM |
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Get this :
As promised, Sagnac is now released in its updated version:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/Sagnac.htm
"Tom Roberts" <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message =
news:IvuPh.4272$u03.3256@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
ca314159 wrote:
Does a classical analysis of the Michelson-Morley Experiment=20
suffice to explain its outcome?=20
=20
No.
What a fuckin' ignorant liar Roberts is!
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message =
news:PdGPh.1647$_43.1604@trnddc02...
Kosher "OsherD" <mdoctorow@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1175327754.008720.243420@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
"Tom Potter" <tdp1...@gmail.com> wrote:
General Relativity is a Tower of Babel
that wastes time, money and minds on such
pursuits as time travel, worm holes, gravity waves,
rubber rulers and clocks, etc.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste."
Tom Potter
Roberts's mind is a terrible thing that *should* be wasted. Well,
it is anyway, Lucent Technologies dumped the moron.
Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
Kosher "OsherD" <mdoctorow@comcast.net> wrote
I agree with Tom Potter. Apparently they've even got Sam Wormley
From Osher Doctorow to Sam Wormley:
Potter is presumably in a different time zone or away
on some chore, but I'll be glad to reply to your post :...
George Soros whose youth was spent in the Nazi SS
[hanson to Osher]
.... ahaha... AHAHAHA...Osher, you too seem to be in different
time zone, for several reasons. What does Soros have to do with
GR?... Most of the 400'000 web-sites say that Soros is Jewish,
born as George Schwartz . So, since when were there Jews
in the Nazi SS?... ahahahaha... But, OTOH, Soros maybe an
in-law to Alan Schwartz, your bosom buddy Uncle Al... ahaha...
Uncle Al ought to hit on his bro-in-kin George for some $MM to
finance his, Al's fabulous inventions, like his organic cockroach
poison, his Kg-sized Diamonds, the Eotvoes thing, and now the
chiro-caloric Benzil experiment... ahahahaha....
[Osher to Sam]
If you [Sam] understand General Relativity so well, why do you
keep posting full articles by other people with no or minimal
comment? Do you want people to give you attention? No?
Gee, the first case of a "really humanitarian physicist" in history!
If you're doing it for humanity, how is it that you classify as a =
troll
somebody who merely presents a theory of his own (like me) that
doesn't agree with the "Mainstream" theory? Is your definition of
humanity the "Mainstream" or "majority," and if so, where do you
plan to hide when the Minorities overrun you?
Osher
[hanson to Osher]
.... ahahahaha... Osher your complaints against Sam may have
some foundation for you are the only one amongst the posters
with a teacher background who doesn't proselytize status quo PC
*****. Kudos to you for that. However, your "Minorities overrun"
notion, that is a real long shot when it comes to GR. You might as
well hope that Jews become Moslems and visa versa... GR is a
religion, a belief system, that strayed away from the empirical and
real world physics, as shown in
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wabnigga_saga.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/96c1fde68777bc9f
wherein it says
GR is even worse of a con then is SR, because it is nothing but =
circular
dance and playing around with Newton's revered G. As long as Einstein
uses Newton's G in his equations he carries with him , unavoidably, =
all the
baggage, the short comings and defects attributed to Newton's G that
REL is trying to get (unsuccessfully) rid of.
.... ....
So, GR =3D BFD... and it doesn't change that fact no matter how much
they twist and convolute the situation with frame dragging, matrices =
or
barks & repeats of "GPS works", like loudmouthed fanatic-Al does.
Nor does it matter how many Einstein Dinglerry-come-latelies do write
lengthy Ashby type treatises decades later in the hope to garnish some
irrational fame with/from REL. All of them will remain by definition =
under
the towering influence and governing hand of Newton and his G from
which they so far have tried to escape in absolute, not relative, =
vain...
So the only truly positive fact is that they TRY to ESCAPE. That's =
good.
....
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/wabnigga_saga.htm
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.physics/msg/96c1fde68777bc9f
# =3D3=3D of =3D8=3D official reasons in the above links show that =
even the
mastser himself has doubts. Einstein said close to the end of his life
in 1954 to Besso:
"I consider it quite possible that physics cannot be based
on the field concept, i. e., on continuous structures. In that
case nothing remains of my entire castle in the air, gravitation
theory included, [and of] the rest of modern physics." -- A.E.
ahahaha... ahahaha... ahahahanson
.
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
31 Mar 2007 11:44:31 AM |
|
|
On Mar 31, 9:24 am, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Tom Potter wrote:
As can be seen by their intensity and their methods,
the small gang that profits from General Relativity
is very concerned that the public is becoming aware of
the costs to society of General Relativity.
Hey, Potter, why do you knock General Relativity, when you don't even
understand it? What's it done to you personally to warrant your scorn?
--------------
the notion that space is curved
is one of Einstein s biggest flops
though special relativity is right and works
space is nothing and cant have any properties exept
hosting matter
time ios nothing but
motion or translation comparison so some chosen
motion refference object
the fact is that curved movement is inly
associated with mass near by existance
points that it is not sapce that makes the job
it ismass and wahtisin that mass
i suggested the circlon
a basic aprticle that moves naturally in closed circles
and it is pnly those particles that do it
not all particles
big aprticles move as newton said
in straght lines!!
i wonswer if there is any experiantal evidence
that a big aprticle moves anturally
in curved lines (if not actioned by any force
time travel abckin tiome is of course
anotherphysics stupidity!!
provided you understand my definition of time
(you cant draw back the motionof all the universe
!!
it is a mad and physics nonsense
of literatire writers of science fiction idea !!!
and Potter is right
there are a lot of people who make money
on SR unjustified !!
ATB
Y.Porat
--------------------
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| User: "BradGuth" |
|
| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
06 May 2007 06:03:21 PM |
|
|
What an absolutely sorry mindfield or gauntlet of mainstream status
quo or bust, of such horrific flak over protecting their precious all-
or-nothing GR butts.
Even "tj Frazir" offers a few too many truthful words of wisdom.
If we gave GR an extra trillion in tax free loot per year, they'd
spend every cent and they still would not be happy campers, nor would
we have accomplished clean fusion energy to burn (sort of speak).
-
Brad Guth
.
|
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|
| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
|
| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
06 May 2007 09:28:07 PM |
|
|
In sci.physics, BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com>
wrote
on 6 May 2007 16:03:21 -0700
<1178492601.374717.153370@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
What an absolutely sorry mindfield or gauntlet of mainstream status
quo or bust, of such horrific flak over protecting their precious all-
or-nothing GR butts.
Even "tj Frazir" offers a few too many truthful words of wisdom.
If we gave GR an extra trillion in tax free loot per year, they'd
spend every cent and they still would not be happy campers, nor would
we have accomplished clean fusion energy to burn (sort of speak).
-
Brad Guth
Yes, of course! That must be it! Science is so corrupt
and such that they cannot see the "obvious truth" that
it's turtles all the way down...
(Or was it elephants? Anyway, Discworld splits the difference.)
--
#191,
Linux. Because vaporware only goes so far.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "BradGuth" |
|
| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
06 May 2007 10:50:30 PM |
|
|
On 6 May, 19:28, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth
<bradg...@gmail.com>
wrote
on 6 May 2007 16:03:21 -0700
<1178492601.374717.153...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
What an absolutely sorry mindfield or gauntlet of mainstream status
quo or bust, of such horrific flak over protecting their precious all-
or-nothing GR butts.
Even "tj Frazir" offers a few too many truthful words of wisdom.
If we gave GR an extra trillion in tax free loot per year, they'd
spend every cent and they still would not be happy campers, nor would
we have accomplished clean fusion energy to burn (sort of speak).
-
BradGuth
Yes, of course! That must be it! Science is so corrupt
and such that they cannot see the "obvious truth" that
it's turtles all the way down...
(Or was it elephants? Anyway, Discworld splits the difference.)
Of course, whenever GR gets a spare trillion to blow, then obviously
if you just happen to be somewhere within the top 10% of the top 0.1%
of humanity, such as being one of those pretty much in charge of most
everything that counts, then obviously it's all perfectly good loot
that's well enough spent among such close friends, and of their
offshore bank accounts.
Science is only as skewed or corrupt as others of their own kind allow
and/or encourage it get. It's a brotherly love sort of thing, even
better if those were incest cloned brothers.
-
Brad Guth
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
|
| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
07 May 2007 12:44:05 AM |
|
|
In sci.physics, BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com>
wrote
on 6 May 2007 20:50:30 -0700
<1178509830.226338.94390@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
On 6 May, 19:28, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth
<bradg...@gmail.com>
wrote
on 6 May 2007 16:03:21 -0700
<1178492601.374717.153...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
What an absolutely sorry mindfield or gauntlet of mainstream status
quo or bust, of such horrific flak over protecting their precious all-
or-nothing GR butts.
Even "tj Frazir" offers a few too many truthful words of wisdom.
If we gave GR an extra trillion in tax free loot per year, they'd
spend every cent and they still would not be happy campers, nor would
we have accomplished clean fusion energy to burn (sort of speak).
-
BradGuth
Yes, of course! That must be it! Science is so corrupt
and such that they cannot see the "obvious truth" that
it's turtles all the way down...
(Or was it elephants? Anyway, Discworld splits the difference.)
Of course, whenever GR gets a spare trillion to blow, then obviously
if you just happen to be somewhere within the top 10% of the top 0.1%
of humanity, such as being one of those pretty much in charge of most
everything that counts, then obviously it's all perfectly good loot
that's well enough spent among such close friends, and of their
offshore bank accounts.
Science is only as skewed or corrupt as others of their own kind allow
and/or encourage it get. It's a brotherly love sort of thing, even
better if those were incest cloned brothers.
-
Brad Guth
Naturally. So how do we fix it?
--
#191,
Linux. Because vaporware only goes so far.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Tom Potter" |
|
| Title: Re: The General Relativity gang are circling the wagons. |
07 May 2007 04:47:45 AM |
|
|
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in
message
news:5uq2h4-1va.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
In sci.physics, BradGuth
<bradguth@gmail.com>
wrote
on 6 May 2007 20:50:30 -0700
<1178509830.226338.94390@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>:
On 6 May, 19:28, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
In sci.physics, BradGuth
<bradg...@gmail.com>
wrote
on 6 May 2007 16:03:21 -0700
<1178492601.374717.153...@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
What an absolutely sorry mindfield or gauntlet of mainstream status
quo or bust, of such horrific flak over protecting their precious all-
or-nothing GR butts.
Even "tj Frazir" offers a few too many truthful words of wisdom.
If we gave GR an extra trillion in tax free loot per year, they'd
spend every cent and they still would not be happy campers, nor would
we have accomplished clean fusion energy to burn (sort of speak).
-
BradGuth
Yes, of course! That must be it! Science is so corrupt
and such that they cannot see the "obvious truth" that
it's turtles all the way down...
(Or was it elephants? Anyway, Discworld splits the difference.)
Of course, whenever GR gets a spare trillion to blow, then obviously
if you just happen to be somewhere within the top 10% of the top 0.1%
of humanity, such as being one of those pretty much in charge of most
everything that counts, then obviously it's all perfectly good loot
that's well enough spent among such close friends, and of their
offshore bank accounts.
Science is only as skewed or corrupt as others of their own kind allow
and/or encourage it get. It's a brotherly love sort of thing, even
better if those were incest cloned brothers.
-
Brad Guth
Naturally. So how do we fix it?
The same way we fixed the Super Conducting Collider;
use the Internet to call stupidity
to the attention of the masses,
and eventually it will feedback to the lawmakers.
Also promote the idea,
that man should NOT serve science,
as the science Charlatans and Cultists promote,
but that science should serve man.
The government should NOT fund specific people or groups,
but should grant cash awards for solutions to specific problems,
like England granted an award for a better clock
that could be used by England's ships to navigate with.
As it is, the taxpayers money is doled out
based on payoff, paybacks, race, religion, credentials,
PAST glories, media hype, etc.
rather than on the basis of purchasing solutions to problems.
It is insanity to waste billions of the taxpayers dollars
rationalizing models that model things beyond man's
capacity to ever experience in time and space,
when there are numerous problems within the times and
spaces that we will traverse,
that need to be solved.
This smacks more of religion than science.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
.
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: The G.P.S. system and lunar landings. |
07 May 2007 05:44:52 AM |
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General Relativity fine tunes our instruments.
You can't achieve 20 digits of precision, for example,
if you don't have an ultra-precise model like G.R.
Many wonderful achievements
( e.g. the G.P.S. system and lunar landings )
can only be done via Nasa and the like.
I like being poor, but I want to live in a rich society.
.
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| User: "Tom Potter" |
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| Title: Re: The G.P.S. system and lunar landings. |
07 May 2007 09:35:47 AM |
|
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"Jeff...Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_May_7_3_@Cotse.NET...
General Relativity fine tunes our instruments.
You can't achieve 20 digits of precision, for example,
if you don't have an ultra-precise model like G.R.
Jeff, would you provide a reference to
where someone achieved 20 digits of precision
with an instrument?
I bet H-P would like to find out how they do that.
I might mention that one could compute
and get twenty digits of output
for any model, if they used a twenty digit
calculator/computer.
And I might point out that I instrumented
a General Relativity experiment around 1960,
where they had computed that they would be able to
detect gravitational radiation at the 12th decimal place.
They used a radio frequency generator to spin a
sturdy ball bearing up to high angular velocities (RPM)
in a high vacuum.
They painted the bearing black and white,
and used a photo pickup to measure the RPM.
In those days one could measure to about
one part in 10^10 fairly precisely,
and could detect about one part 10^12 short term variations.
In other words the last place on the counter fluttered all over the
place
due to instabilities in the counter gate.
After the excitation was turned off,
the RPM of the bearing decayed exponentially,
due to a large laundry list of reasons,
windage, magnetic and electric affects,
metal creepage, light pressure, heat radiation, etc.
Now it was hard to isolate, measure and account for
all of the things that affected the decay in RPM,
but you know how they computed what caused the various decays?
They did like the people in the GPS system,
and on the Gravity Probe B experiment did,
the used Maxwell's and Newton's equations.
The question is,
do you believe in General Relativity
"Because the Bible tells you so."
or because you understand it,
and can use it?
If you believe in it
because you understand and can use it,
why not make a few rough computations using General Relativity
to estimate what the windage loss, magnetic and electric losses,
and the gravitation loss would be?
I, for one, would sure like to see a breakdown
of the losses in a spinning body,
just using General Relativity,
and I'd like to know how they would measure
the computed values to 20 decimal places.
--
Tom Potter
*** Time Magazine Person of the Year 2006 ***
http://home.earthlink.net/~tdp
http://tdp1001.googlepages.com/home
http://no-turtles.com
http://www.frappr.com/tompotter
http://photos.yahoo.com/tdp1001
http://spaces.msn.com/tdp1001
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tom-potter
http://tom-potter.blogspot.com
.
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: The less money you need, the less the government will worry you. |
08 May 2007 05:43:33 AM |
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|
My belly is full ( and too fat ), Tom Potter;
so, naturally, my mind turns to thoughts like:
" Why isn't the kilogram defined in terms of fundamental constants ? ".
You can't do that without Einstein's equations.
Google " atom laser quantum gravimeter ".
Your wallet is fat, but it's just never enough for you;
so you don't have time to gaze up at the Milky Way,
no time to ask " What is life ? ".
Nasa, the G.P.S. system, etc. enrich my life, our lives;
but all you care about is the money it's taking from your wallet.
The less money you need, the less the government will worry you.
Quoting a page from my local campus,
" www.NPL.Washington.EDU/eotwash/experiments/bigG/bigG.html ":
" If the Earth's diameter were known as poorly as its mass,
it would be uncertain by one mile.
This should be compared to the 3 cm uncertainty in
the distance between the Earth and Moon,
which is determined using laser ranging
and the well-known speed of light ! ".
...
" The Russian group found a curious space and time variation of G of
up to .7 percent. The collection of these new results suggests that
the uncertainty in G could be much larger than originally thought. ".
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