The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Eivomiq"
Date: 02 Jun 2004 08:50:24 AM
Object: The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light
The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light
The idea that the velocity of light is the same no matter in what
reference frame it is measured is fundamental to the modern sceince of physics.
The premise started with the confusion resulting from failure of the
Michaelson-Morely experiment to reveal an absolute velocity reference for space
and shortly led to both the unique solution Lorentz Transformation-Aether
Theory and the general case solution (no Aether) equivalent - the Special
Theory of Relativity.
Since the conclusion that the velocity of light was constant in all reference
frames is based on observation, the necessity of understanding the methodology
of measuring the velocity of light should be apparent to all who would deal
with relativistic phenomena.
Velocity is defined as distance travelled (length) per unit time. If one
wishes to measure the velocity of any entity, be it light or bullets, one needs
in principle, a yardstick to measure the distance travelled and a clock to
measure the time required for the entity to travel that distance. It behooves
us then to examine the nature of the instruments which might be used in making
the required observations.
In principle, all measurements of length require the equivalent of a
yardstick. (It is not suitable, for example, to define length in terms a number
of wavelengths of light for our purpose since that would result in measuring
the velocity of light in terms of itself, an obvious absurdity.) That yardstick
is constructed, in effect, of an array of atomic nuclei separated from each
other ahd held in place by electromagnetic fields ("virtual photons" are one
explanation of the operation of those field.) The atomic nuclei contains 99.95%
of the mass(energy) of the atom and are on the order of 10^-15 meters in
diameter. The atoms in the array are separated by about 10^-10 meters. To
provide some perspective, a scale representation would show that if the nuclei
were enlarged to the size of a billiard ball, the nominal distance between
nuclei would be about 3.1 miles. Obviously the length of the yardstick is
determined almost entirely by the characteristics of the electromagnetic forces
acting between its nuclei. Similarly, time is measured by counting the "ticks"
of a clock or their equivalent. The time between clock "ticks" is measured by
the period of some type of resonant system. Such a system could be composed of
the coiled "hairspring" of a watch and a blanace wheel or it could be composed
of the elasticity of the bond between two atoms and the mass of those atoms. In
all cases, the period of the resonant system is determined by the spring
constant acting in the resonant system and the significant mass of that system.
In other words, with regard to relativistic effects, what is true of one type
of clock is true for all types of clocks!
Let us then consider what would happen if the velocity of light in free
space were to change. Since the atomic nuclei of the yardstick control their
separation by electromagnetic means, the nuclei would sense that their
separation was now "wrong" and they would move to correct the error. thus
causing the yardstick to change its length. The stiffness of the clocks
"hairspring" is also determined electromagnetic means and the mass of the
"balance wheel" is determined by the energy represented by that mass and the
velocity of light in accordance with M=E/C^2! The result would be that the
postulated change in the velocity of light should change the calibration of the
clock. If the Principle of Relativity is applicable, as indeed it must be if
the Laws of Physics are to be the same in all velocity and elevation reference
frames, then the length of our yardsticks and the speed of our clocks must
change as a result of the postulated change in the free space velocity of
light. Moreover, that change must be such that a measurement of the velocity of
light would be produce the same value regardless of the reference frame
(velocity, elevation)in which it was measured. This would occur because the
units of measurement by which the velocity of light is measured would change to
conceal any actual change in that velocity.
Any measurement of the velocity of light that we may care to make is actually a
measurement of the velocity of light in terms of the velocity of light. Such a
measurement is clearly meaningless. The quantity we accept as the velocity of
light probably results from the dimensionaless Fine Structure Constant which
reveals the velocity of light in terms of the dielectric constant of space.
To add perspective to the discussion. It is axiomatic that every process
which involves obeying physical laws (including the "constantcy" of the
velocity of light and the length of our "yardsticks" must contain the following
steps.
1:- It must measure the magnitude of the quantity in question.
2:- It must compare the measured quantity with its nominal value.
3:- It must apply the necessary "force" to reduce any error towards zero.
This is not an invention of the writer. It is a requirement of any stable
process.
The framers of relativity theory missed the boat in not digging deeply
enough. It is not enough to accept the Principle of Relativity. The question
they should have asked is why does the Principle of Relativity hold. Such a
question leads to the very obvious answer that it holds because matter uses the
velocity of light to control its parameters. One need only to add the proviso
that information cannot propagate faster than the velocity of light and the
mysteries of SR vanish (providing one is not too lazy to follow the reasoning
through to its conclusion). In the case of gravity, the effects of a change in
the velocity of light between reference frames which differ in elevation is
immediately obvious, it is called gravity. Gravity results because proximity to
energy causes an increase in the "absolute" permeabilty of the Aether. All of
the known gravitational effects cah be shown to follow from this change. Space
is not "curved".
http://www.members.aol.com/einsteinhoax/gravity.htm.
The source material for this posting may be found in "Gravity" (1987),
"The Einstein Hoax" (1997), and "Corrections to Residual Errors in Special
Relativity (1999) located at http://www.members.aol.com/einsteinhoax/site.htm.
EVERYTHING WHICH WE ACCEPT AS TRUE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE WE
HAVE ACCEPTED AS TRUE, IT MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL OBSERVATIONS, AND IT MUST
BE MATHEMATICALLY VIABLE. PRESENT TEACHINGS DO NOT ALWAYS MEET THIS
REQUIREMENT. THE WORLD IS ENTITLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF WORKMANSHIP FROM
THOSE IT HAS GRANTED WORLD CLASS STATUS.
Please make any response via E-mail as Newsgroups are not monitored on a
regular basis. Objective responses will be treated with the same courtesy as
they are presented. To prevent the wastage of time on both of our parts, please
do not raise objections that are not related to material that you have read at
the Website. This posting is merely a summary.
E-mail:-

The material at the Website has been posted continuously for over 5 years.
In that time THERE HAVE BEEN NO OBJECTIVE REBUTTALS OF ANY OF THE MATERIAL
PRESENTED. There have only been hand waving arguments by individuals who have
mindlessly accepted the prevailing wisdom without questioning it. If anyone
provides a significant rebuttal that cannot be objectively answered, the
material at the Website will be withdrawn.


.

User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light 02 Jun 2004 09:27:29 AM
Eivomiq wrote:


The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light


Michelson-Morley Experiment
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Michelson-MorleyExperiment.html
Speed of Light [is now a defined constant]
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/SpeedofLight.html
Actually you would either be measuring distance or time, as the speed of light
is a fundamental constant of nature. One could always make the assumption, as
an academic exercise, that your distance and time measuring devices were "standards"
and confirm the velocity of light. However both of those measures are defined
by the velocity of light. See: http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/current.html
Group Velocity
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/GroupVelocity.html
Phase Velocity
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/PhaseVelocity.html
Crank Information
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Aretiche
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Areticher1
.

User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light 02 Jun 2004 10:39:25 AM
Eivomiq wrote:


The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light

[snip 120 lines of ignorant crap]
Lightspeed equals 299,792,458 m/s - EXACTLY.
http://www.freefarts.com/farts.html
Move cursor over blinkers to hear Retic's lecture.
Psychotic ineducable boring spammer retic (Ernest Wittke),
You see yourself this way,
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete6.jpg
The entire remainder of the planet sees you this way,
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete3.png
http://b5.sdvc.uwyo.edu/bab5/snds/argcstpd.wav
http://w0rli.home.att.net/youare.swf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg
http://www.you-moron.com/
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=group%3Asci.physics+author%3Awittke
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete0.jpg
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete1.png
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete2.png
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete3.png
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete4.png
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/effete5.jpg
http://www.apa.org/journals/psp/psp7761121.html
http://insti.physics.sunysb.edu/~siegel/quack.html
<http://www.firehead.org/~jessh/film/kubrick/Kubrick-Psycho.html>
<http://www.naturalchild.com/elliott_barker/prisons.html>

The source material for this posting may be found in "Gravity" (1987),
"The Einstein Hoax" (1997), and "Corrections to Residual Errors in Special
Relativity (1999)

[snip]
Hey, stooopid spammer Ernest Wittke - Do you want EVIDENCE? Each of
the 24 GPS satellites carries either four cesium atomic clocks or
three rubidum atomic clocks in orbit, with full relativistic
corrections being applied. NAVSTAR Block II GPS satellites (currently
being launched as replacements) have two rubidium and two cesium
atomic clocks.
<http://optoelectronics.perkinelmer.com/content/Datasheets/rfs2f.pdf>
<http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/RelWWW/tests.html>
Mathematics of gravitation
http://arXiv.org/abs/hep-th/0111236
Geometric structure of reality
http://arXiv.org/abs/hep-th/0307140
GR structure, especially Part 4/p. 7
<http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume4/2001-4will/index.html>
http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0311039
Experimental constraints on General Relativity.
<http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti2002/paper20.pdf>
Nature 425 374 (2003)
<http://rattler.cameron.edu/EMIS/journals/LRG/Articles/Volume6/2003-1ashby/index.html>
http://www.eftaylor.com/pub/projecta.pdf
Relativity in the GPS system
http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9909014
Phys. Rev. Lett. 92 (2004) 121101
falling light
http://www.hawaii.edu/suremath/SRtwinParadox.html
<http://physics.syr.edu/courses/modules/LIGHTCONE/twins.html>
Twin Paradox
Science 303(5661) 1143;1153 (2004)
http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0401086
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0312071
Deeply relativistic neutron star binaries
http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/0405160
Black hole evaporation
<http://www.npl.washington.edu/eotwash/pdf/prl83-3585.pdf>
http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0301024
Nordtvedt Effect
http://arXiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0310723
WMAP + Sloane Digital Sky Survey
http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0404175
Dark matter candidates
<http://nedwww.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/March01/Carroll/frames.html>
Carroll on what it all means.
Special Relativity is physics on a topologically trivial Lorentzian
manifold with a metric whose curvature tensor is zero. This is a
perfectly diffeomorphism-invariant condition and does not require
any particular coordinate choice. It is invariant under
the full group of diffeomorphisms. The Poincare group is
the group of *isometries* of the metric in special relativity.
The Special Relativity metric is *non-dynamical* (unlike GR). It
defines the coupling *constants* of your theory. If you change the
metric in any nontrivial way you are changing your theory. An
operation can only be called a "symmetry" of a special-relativistic
(non-gravitational) theory if it preserves the metric, and therefore
the symmetry of special-relativistic theories is the Poincare group
only. General Relativity (gravitation) has a dynamic metric.
NIM A 355 537 (1995)
Physics Letters B 328 103 (1994)
Physical Review Letters 64 1697 (1990)
Physical Review Letters 39 1051 (1977)
Physical Review 135 B1071 (1964)
Physics Letters 12 260 (1964)
Europhysics Letters 56(2) 170-174 (2001)
General Relativity and Gravitation 34(9) 1371 (2002)
http://fourmilab.to/etexts/einstein/specrel/specrel.pdf
<http://www.geocities.com/physics_world/sr/ae_1905_error.htm>
<http://www.physics.gatech.edu/people/faculty/finkelstein/relativity.pdf>
Longitudinal and transverse mass
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0306076.pdf
<http://www.metaresearch.org/solar%20system/gps/absolute-gps-1meter-3.ASP>
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/gpsuser/gpsuser.pdf
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/default.htm
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/icd200/default.htm
http://www.trimble.com/gps/index.html
http://sirius.chinalake.navy.mil/satpred/
http://www.phys.lsu.edu/mog/mog9/node9.html
http://egtphysics.net/GPS/RelGPS.htm
http://www.schriever.af.mil/gps/Current/current.oa1
http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_books.html
<http://www-astronomy.mps.ohio-state.edu/~pogge/Ast162/Unit5/gps.html>

If anyone
provides a significant rebuttal that cannot be objectively answered, the
material at the Website will be withdrawn.

Right, like your head has ever been withdrawn from your ***** - even
when you *****.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
.

User: "John Smith"

Title: Re: The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light 02 Jun 2004 08:03:43 PM
Learn how to spell, you ignorant *****-tard. Then never post here again.
"Eivomiq" <eivomiq@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040602095024.15734.00000206@mb-m24.aol.com...

The Impossibility of Measuring the Velocity of Light

The idea that the velocity of light is the same no matter in what
reference frame it is measured is fundamental to the modern sceince of

physics.

The premise started with the confusion resulting from failure of the
Michaelson-Morely experiment to reveal an absolute velocity reference for

space

and shortly led to both the unique solution Lorentz Transformation-Aether
Theory and the general case solution (no Aether) equivalent - the Special
Theory of Relativity.
Since the conclusion that the velocity of light was constant in all

reference

frames is based on observation, the necessity of understanding the

methodology

of measuring the velocity of light should be apparent to all who would

deal

with relativistic phenomena.

Velocity is defined as distance travelled (length) per unit time. If

one

wishes to measure the velocity of any entity, be it light or bullets, one

needs

in principle, a yardstick to measure the distance travelled and a clock to
measure the time required for the entity to travel that distance. It

behooves

us then to examine the nature of the instruments which might be used in

making

the required observations.

In principle, all measurements of length require the equivalent of a
yardstick. (It is not suitable, for example, to define length in terms a

number

of wavelengths of light for our purpose since that would result in

measuring

the velocity of light in terms of itself, an obvious absurdity.) That

yardstick

is constructed, in effect, of an array of atomic nuclei separated from

each

other ahd held in place by electromagnetic fields ("virtual photons" are

one

explanation of the operation of those field.) The atomic nuclei contains

99.95%

of the mass(energy) of the atom and are on the order of 10^-15 meters in
diameter. The atoms in the array are separated by about 10^-10 meters. To
provide some perspective, a scale representation would show that if the

nuclei

were enlarged to the size of a billiard ball, the nominal distance between
nuclei would be about 3.1 miles. Obviously the length of the yardstick is
determined almost entirely by the characteristics of the electromagnetic

forces

acting between its nuclei. Similarly, time is measured by counting the

"ticks"

of a clock or their equivalent. The time between clock "ticks" is measured

by

the period of some type of resonant system. Such a system could be

composed of

the coiled "hairspring" of a watch and a blanace wheel or it could be

composed

of the elasticity of the bond between two atoms and the mass of those

atoms. In

all cases, the period of the resonant system is determined by the spring
constant acting in the resonant system and the significant mass of that

system.

In other words, with regard to relativistic effects, what is true of one

type

of clock is true for all types of clocks!

Let us then consider what would happen if the velocity of light in

free

space were to change. Since the atomic nuclei of the yardstick control

their

separation by electromagnetic means, the nuclei would sense that their
separation was now "wrong" and they would move to correct the error. thus
causing the yardstick to change its length. The stiffness of the clocks
"hairspring" is also determined electromagnetic means and the mass of the
"balance wheel" is determined by the energy represented by that mass and

the

velocity of light in accordance with M=E/C^2! The result would be that the
postulated change in the velocity of light should change the calibration

of the

clock. If the Principle of Relativity is applicable, as indeed it must be

if

the Laws of Physics are to be the same in all velocity and elevation

reference

frames, then the length of our yardsticks and the speed of our clocks must
change as a result of the postulated change in the free space velocity of
light. Moreover, that change must be such that a measurement of the

velocity of

light would be produce the same value regardless of the reference frame
(velocity, elevation)in which it was measured. This would occur because

the

units of measurement by which the velocity of light is measured would

change to

conceal any actual change in that velocity.
Any measurement of the velocity of light that we may care to make is

actually a

measurement of the velocity of light in terms of the velocity of light.

Such a

measurement is clearly meaningless. The quantity we accept as the velocity

of

light probably results from the dimensionaless Fine Structure Constant

which

reveals the velocity of light in terms of the dielectric constant of

space.


To add perspective to the discussion. It is axiomatic that every

process

which involves obeying physical laws (including the "constantcy" of the
velocity of light and the length of our "yardsticks" must contain the

following

steps.

1:- It must measure the magnitude of the quantity in question.

2:- It must compare the measured quantity with its nominal value.

3:- It must apply the necessary "force" to reduce any error towards zero.

This is not an invention of the writer. It is a requirement of any stable
process.

The framers of relativity theory missed the boat in not digging

deeply

enough. It is not enough to accept the Principle of Relativity. The

question

they should have asked is why does the Principle of Relativity hold. Such

a

question leads to the very obvious answer that it holds because matter

uses the

velocity of light to control its parameters. One need only to add the

proviso

that information cannot propagate faster than the velocity of light and

the

mysteries of SR vanish (providing one is not too lazy to follow the

reasoning

through to its conclusion). In the case of gravity, the effects of a

change in

the velocity of light between reference frames which differ in elevation

is

immediately obvious, it is called gravity. Gravity results because

proximity to

energy causes an increase in the "absolute" permeabilty of the Aether. All

of

the known gravitational effects cah be shown to follow from this change.

Space

is not "curved".
http://www.members.aol.com/einsteinhoax/gravity.htm.


The source material for this posting may be found in "Gravity"

(1987),

"The Einstein Hoax" (1997), and "Corrections to Residual Errors in Special
Relativity (1999) located at

http://www.members.aol.com/einsteinhoax/site.htm.

EVERYTHING WHICH WE ACCEPT AS TRUE MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH EVERYTHING ELSE

WE

HAVE ACCEPTED AS TRUE, IT MUST BE CONSISTENT WITH ALL OBSERVATIONS, AND IT

MUST

BE MATHEMATICALLY VIABLE. PRESENT TEACHINGS DO NOT ALWAYS MEET THIS
REQUIREMENT. THE WORLD IS ENTITLED TO A HIGHER STANDARD OF WORKMANSHIP

FROM

THOSE IT HAS GRANTED WORLD CLASS STATUS.

Please make any response via E-mail as Newsgroups are not monitored

on a

regular basis. Objective responses will be treated with the same courtesy

as

they are presented. To prevent the wastage of time on both of our parts,

please

do not raise objections that are not related to material that you have

read at

the Website. This posting is merely a summary.

E-mail:-



The material at the Website has been posted continuously for over 5

years.

In that time THERE HAVE BEEN NO OBJECTIVE REBUTTALS OF ANY OF THE MATERIAL
PRESENTED. There have only been hand waving arguments by individuals who

have

mindlessly accepted the prevailing wisdom without questioning it. If

anyone

provides a significant rebuttal that cannot be objectively answered, the
material at the Website will be withdrawn.


.


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