| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"galathaea" |
| Date: |
11 Apr 2007 02:25:45 PM |
| Object: |
the male alpha problem in math and the sciences |
i have regularly found
that men tend to disbelieve me
if i discuss something they are unfamiliar with
when i was younger
i was often ashamed by their accusations
and would keep quiet after any "incident" where i was ridiculed
later
as i learned more and often found more credence in whatever it was
discussed
i realised my initial reactions were not constructive
and i needed to be more forceful about what i knew
the way men and women handle such situations is very different
and i suspect that this is one of the larger selection criteria
that keeps women out of math and sciences
the problem with these fields
in opposition to others
is that there seems to be some tradition of certainty here
math is considered true absolutely by a large segment of practitoners
( in whatever definition of truth they have rationalised )
science is considered to reveal the truth of nature
whether foundationally justified or not
these fields seem to attract the type that seek certainty
so when something is presented outside their knowledge
when they are confronted with a different approach or view
they regularly and immediately assume it is invalid
i have seen this regularly in my life
and it seems to have an added twist for women
for women
the assumption of wrongness seems accompanied with a
" she's alright, she's just a little confused, i'll come and correct
her "
attitude
almost an embarassment followed by rescuer fantasy
and then when source material is presented to provide a foundation for
the claims
others who may be aware of some of the source come in
_and_will_try_to_mediate_by_supporting_the_male_attacks_!
" well she's got some points here
but she's still wrong xyz "
and i find i haven't made any progress because the points are then
ignored
and the original assertion must still be defended
grigory perelman took exception to this behavior
by his peers in russia
who often mocked him for believing (correctly) to have proven
poincare's conjecture
but of course the prototypical example is rosalind franklin
whose ideas were mocked
whose appearance was mocked
by watson and crick after stealing her data and claiming her results
on the structure of DNA
do other women in these fields find the same behavior?
did it almost turn you away from the fields?
i've had professors tell me i was mistaken for thinking there was such
a thing as
noncommutative geometry
( " all spaces have commutative function spaces! " )
mocked for considering bohmian mechanics by a physics professor
who would regularly show me the new advances they were making
in extending aspect's results
berated for suggesting quantum logic solutions to homework problems
once
when i mentioned to an ex professor
that i had hypergeometric results which might be new
the professor told me
" I am sure you have worked hard on your little theorem. But the
literature
is vast, and even on the off chance you haven't any obvious
errors, the
result is probably known. You should find a professor doing
original
research and they can help you get started if that's what you
want. "
this was a professor who
was the putnam coach the year i scored highest in my state
worked in combinatorial sums and could easily have understood
refused to even look at my work
lately on these newgroups
steve carlip
whom i had always thought provided well-thought out responses
wrote:
" If you want to work on Bohmian mechanics as a program that
*might* eventually lead to a deterministic alternative to QFT,
that's fine (though be careful of your citations -- a number of
the QFT models you've referred to are explicitly *not*
deterministic).
But don't confuse your hopes with what has actually been shown
to be possible. "
did carlip know enough of bohmian mechanics to make this assertion?
of course not
like most posters in the thread
he only started reading the literature after i posted links to it
and his negativity carried the assumption that i
_who_had_posted_the_links_and_responses_that_introduced_him_to_it_
had no clue what i was talking about
i've been called crazy
because i discussed artemov's logic of proofs
as a resolution to the bhk semantics of constructivism
by people who had not read the papers
do other women find they continually have to justify themselves to
men?
is this a truly sexually dimorphic problem?
or am i not able to generalise this because of "special" circumstances
in my cases?
i am just wondering how others deal with this
( the guys can answer too
if they promise to take a shower and brush their teeth )
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
.
|
|
| User: "galathaea" |
|
| Title: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
13 Apr 2007 09:32:52 AM |
|
|
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
and this article is a much better resource
than may be indicated by that fragment
throughout it quotes correlation studies
showing not only measurable dimorphism test values
but also the trends those values are headed
it explores a number of tests
they explore how representative sampling
show no differences in
mathematical computation ability
and mathematical concept understand
but that there were differences in problem solving
which had been steadily decreasing
( and other more recent articles continue this trend )
the biggest differences in these abilities
are in seen in the more self-selective tests
where representative sampling is replaced with voluntary selection
so where psat mathematical differences were -.15
(weighted mean correlation)
high school problem solving tests showed -.29
college -.32
and the most selective tests -.54
with all trends decreasing
but maintaining the selection bias
and of course gender differences are not homogeneous
aggression
on the other hand
showed strong dimorphism in children (-.64)
which weakened into adulthood (-.29)
the data on whether this trend is decreasing is unclear
with some test showing mild improvement
and other surveys keeping fairly stable
..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in other words
this is very real
this is not made up *****
you can ignore as whining
real selective pressure is placed on women
because of male aggression
if you are a professor
and you participate in this behavior
you are not an earnest teacher
you are merely collecting paychecks
and maintaining the status quo
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
.
|
|
|
| User: "Larry Hammick" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
13 Apr 2007 10:12:10 AM |
|
|
"galathaea"
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
That last sentence smacks of propaganda.
I have another theory re women in math at university level. Say a girl does
well in math at high school, likes the subject, and goes to university fully
intending to major in math. After a year or two of watching all these guys
busting their asses to be the alpha-male, she gets PO'ed and changes her
major. I don't blame her. Anybody can see how much vanity there is in this
game, at least in academia -- all those medals 'n prizes 'n festschrifts 'n
*****. No woman wants to be the alpha-virago, at least if she has any brains.
So the social setup is what my theory is about -- not the subject and not
the people, which is what the (alas) academic studies prefer to address. No
academic paper will steer for the conclusion that there is something wrong
with academic motives. Hell no.
Has anybody studied males versus females in areas where personal publicity
is not stake? Maybe in military crypto, which is never publicized? How many
women were at Bletchley Park, and how did they do?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
14 Apr 2007 05:34:38 AM |
|
|
In article <e5NTh.66739$__3.8847@edtnps90>,
"Larry Hammick" <larryhammick@telus.net> wrote:
"galathaea"
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
That last sentence smacks of propaganda.
I have another theory re women in math at university level. Say a girl does
well in math at high school, likes the subject, and goes to university fully
intending to major in math. After a year or two of watching all these guys
busting their asses to be the alpha-male, she gets PO'ed and changes her
major. I don't blame her. Anybody can see how much vanity there is in this
game, at least in academia -- all those medals 'n prizes 'n festschrifts 'n
*****. No woman wants to be the alpha-virago, at least if she has any brains.
So the social setup is what my theory is about -- not the subject and not
the people, which is what the (alas) academic studies prefer to address. No
academic paper will steer for the conclusion that there is something wrong
with academic motives. Hell no.
Has anybody studied males versus females in areas where personal publicity
is not stake? Maybe in military crypto, which is never publicized? How many
women were at Bletchley Park, and how did they do?
Your analysis is a bit wrong. I will make the point that the
women who are in those fields and busy doing real work, don't
waste their time filling out ***** questionaires. I will
also point out that the parts this galenta cut and pasted smelled
of slanting stats to prove a NOW point but I can't figure out
which sentence gave that odour.
What really pisses me off, is that all these "studies" are
really trying to undermine the women who are doing that
kind of work. I've run into this during my working life.
"If you're successful in the technical areas, then
males must have done the work."
/BAH
.
|
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|
| User: "galathaea" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
13 Apr 2007 02:28:55 PM |
|
|
On Apr 13, 8:12 am, "Larry Hammick" <larryhamm...@telus.net> wrote:
"galathaea"
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
That last sentence smacks of propaganda.
I have another theory re women in math at university level.
Say a girl does well in math at high school, likes the
subject, and goes to university fully intending to major
in math. After a year or two of watching all these guys
busting their asses to be the alpha-male, she gets PO'ed
and changes her major. I don't blame her. Anybody can see
how much vanity there is in this game, at least in academia
-- all those medals 'n prizes 'n festschrifts 'n *****. No
woman wants to be the alpha-virago, at least if she has
any brains. So the social setup is what my theory is about
-- not the subject and not the people, which is what the
(alas) academic studies prefer to address. No academic paper
will steer for the conclusion that there is something wrong
with academic motives. Hell no.
you may have hit the technological issue
although i do think there is sufficient evidence
to indicate confidence level differences
and its relation here
the system does seem to be the thing to fix here
motives are what perelman attacked
and i much admire sartre and tesla
for their aversion of the nobel prize
recently in a thread entitled "education of the children"
i mentioned that an online education
paced individually to the needs of the student
and with the freedom to explore topics
in much longer stretches of time
may be necessary to break up some of the constraints
of modern group-based education
of course
herman rubin has been saying similar things for years
and has a much more formalised picture of what he feels is needed
i think
technologically
if we can break up the dynamics of group-based education
many of these socially-institutionalised problems
can be solved
Has anybody studied males versus females in areas where
personal publicity is not stake? Maybe in military crypto,
which is never publicized? How many women were at
Bletchley Park, and how did they do?
" stereotype threat "
has been explored in a number of studies
here it has been shown that
when women knew they were being tested for gender differences
they did substantially worse than
when women thought the test was gender anonymous
genevieve grotjan is a fascinating woman
whose work in cryptography
helped the us decipher japanese communiques
i did a search for her to see if i could find a good summary
and instead found this page:
http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00014.cfm
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "galathaea" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
13 Apr 2007 02:31:07 PM |
|
|
On Apr 13, 8:12 am, "Larry Hammick" <larryhamm...@telus.net> wrote:
"galathaea"
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
That last sentence smacks of propaganda.
I have another theory re women in math at university level.
Say a girl does well in math at high school, likes the
subject, and goes to university fully intending to major
in math. After a year or two of watching all these guys
busting their asses to be the alpha-male, she gets PO'ed
and changes her major. I don't blame her. Anybody can see
how much vanity there is in this game, at least in academia
-- all those medals 'n prizes 'n festschrifts 'n *****. No
woman wants to be the alpha-virago, at least if she has
any brains. So the social setup is what my theory is about
-- not the subject and not the people, which is what the
(alas) academic studies prefer to address. No academic paper
will steer for the conclusion that there is something wrong
with academic motives. Hell no.
you may have hit the technological issue
although i do think there is sufficient evidence
to indicate confidence level differences
and its relation here
the system does seem to be the thing to fix here
motives are what perelman attacked
and i much admire sartre and tesla
for their aversion of the nobel prize
recently in a thread entitled "education of the children"
i mentioned that an online education
paced individually to the needs of the student
and with the freedom to explore topics
in much longer stretches of time
may be necessary to break up some of the constraints
of modern group-based education
of course
herman rubin has been saying similar things for years
and has a much more formalised picture of what he feels is needed
i think
technologically
if we can break up the dynamics of group-based education
many of these socially-institutionalised problems
can be solved
Has anybody studied males versus females in areas where
personal publicity is not stake? Maybe in military crypto,
which is never publicized? How many women were at
Bletchley Park, and how did they do?
" stereotype threat "
has been explored in a number of studies
here it has been shown that
when women knew they were being tested for gender differences
they did substantially worse than
when women thought the test was gender anonymous
genevieve grotjan is a fascinating woman
whose work in cryptography
helped the us decipher japanese communiques
i did a search for her to see if i could find a good summary
and instead found this page:
http://www.nsa.gov/publications/publi00014.cfm
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
.
|
|
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| User: "quasi" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
13 Apr 2007 03:02:07 PM |
|
|
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:12:10 GMT, "Larry Hammick"
<larryhammick@telus.net> wrote:
"galathaea"
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
That last sentence smacks of propaganda.
I have another theory re women in math at university level. Say a girl does
well in math at high school, likes the subject, and goes to university fully
intending to major in math. After a year or two of watching all these guys
busting their asses to be the alpha-male, she gets PO'ed and changes her
major. I don't blame her. Anybody can see how much vanity there is in this
game, at least in academia -- all those medals 'n prizes 'n festschrifts 'n
*****. No woman wants to be the alpha-virago, at least if she has any brains.
So the social setup is what my theory is about -- not the subject and not
the people, which is what the (alas) academic studies prefer to address. No
academic paper will steer for the conclusion that there is something wrong
with academic motives. Hell no.
Has anybody studied males versus females in areas where personal publicity
is not stake? Maybe in military crypto, which is never publicized? How many
women were at Bletchley Park, and how did they do?
I disagree. I think it _is_ the subject, together with gender-based
personality pre-conditioning.
Math is a "macho" sport.
When working against a problem, you devise "attacks". The problem is
the adversary. This causes instinctive responses characteristic of
intense competition (adrenalin driven mental speedups, no need for
sleep, etc). The enjoyment of this kind of "fight" is less typical for
females.
There might be a biological explanation, but even if there is, I think
it's primarily a culturally induced bias. Gender oriented brainwashing
of young children by what they see on TV, the types of toys they are
steered towards, parental pressure to suppress aggressive tendencies
in girls while allowing it and even encouraging it in boys, and
eventually, peer pressure from their friends.
The women who do manage to break through in math are usually just as
macho as their male counterparts.
quasi
.
|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
14 Apr 2007 05:38:23 AM |
|
|
In article <bskv1315us9vg8m2morgj2hqb1v83ek9ic@4ax.com>,
quasi <quasi@null.set> wrote:
On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 15:12:10 GMT, "Larry Hammick"
<larryhammick@telus.net> wrote:
"galathaea"
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
That last sentence smacks of propaganda.
I have another theory re women in math at university level. Say a girl does
well in math at high school, likes the subject, and goes to university fully
intending to major in math. After a year or two of watching all these guys
busting their asses to be the alpha-male, she gets PO'ed and changes her
major. I don't blame her. Anybody can see how much vanity there is in this
game, at least in academia -- all those medals 'n prizes 'n festschrifts 'n
*****. No woman wants to be the alpha-virago, at least if she has any brains.
So the social setup is what my theory is about -- not the subject and not
the people, which is what the (alas) academic studies prefer to address. No
academic paper will steer for the conclusion that there is something wrong
with academic motives. Hell no.
Has anybody studied males versus females in areas where personal publicity
is not stake? Maybe in military crypto, which is never publicized? How many
women were at Bletchley Park, and how did they do?
I disagree. I think it _is_ the subject, together with gender-based
personality pre-conditioning.
Math is a "macho" sport.
When working against a problem, you devise "attacks". The problem is
the adversary. This causes instinctive responses characteristic of
intense competition (adrenalin driven mental speedups, no need for
sleep, etc). The enjoyment of this kind of "fight" is less typical for
females.
There might be a biological explanation, but even if there is, I think
it's primarily a culturally induced bias. Gender oriented brainwashing
of young children by what they see on TV, the types of toys they are
steered towards, parental pressure to suppress aggressive tendencies
in girls while allowing it and even encouraging it in boys, and
eventually, peer pressure from their friends.
The women who do manage to break through in math are usually just as
macho as their male counterparts.
You need to work three years on a farm.
/BAH
.
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|
|
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|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
13 Apr 2007 04:06:39 PM |
|
|
On Apr 13, 7:32 am, "galathaea" <galath...@gmail.com> wrote:
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
and this article is a much better resource
than may be indicated by that fragment
throughout it quotes correlation studies
showing not only measurable dimorphism test values
but also the trends those values are headed
it explores a number of tests
they explore how representative sampling
show no differences in
mathematical computation ability
and mathematical concept understand
but that there were differences in problem solving
which had been steadily decreasing
( and other more recent articles continue this trend )
the biggest differences in these abilities
are in seen in the more self-selective tests
where representative sampling is replaced with voluntary selection
so where psat mathematical differences were -.15
(weighted mean correlation)
high school problem solving tests showed -.29
college -.32
and the most selective tests -.54
with all trends decreasing
but maintaining the selection bias
and of course gender differences are not homogeneous
aggression
on the other hand
showed strong dimorphism in children (-.64)
which weakened into adulthood (-.29)
the data on whether this trend is decreasing is unclear
with some test showing mild improvement
and other surveys keeping fairly stable
..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in other words
this is very real
this is not made up *****
you can ignore as whining
real selective pressure is placed on women
because of male aggression
if you are a professor
and you participate in this behavior
you are not an earnest teacher
you are merely collecting paychecks
and maintaining the status quo
Um, ISTM what you're pursuing is generally called a "polemic". IOW
you assume a conclusion and seek data that support it while discarding
data that don't.
I wrote a long (for me) post suggesting some actual strategies for
dealing with the difficulties you perceive but you appear to have
decided to ignore it. Why, because it does not support your foregone
conclusion? Was I not adequately aggressive?
Or do you not want any solutions and merely wish to bash men in
general?
Mark L. Fergerson
.
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| User: "galathaea" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
14 Apr 2007 12:04:05 PM |
|
|
wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:32 am, "galathaea" <galath...@gmail.com> wrote:
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
and this article is a much better resource
than may be indicated by that fragment
throughout it quotes correlation studies
showing not only measurable dimorphism test values
but also the trends those values are headed
it explores a number of tests
they explore how representative sampling
show no differences in
mathematical computation ability
and mathematical concept understand
but that there were differences in problem solving
which had been steadily decreasing
( and other more recent articles continue this trend )
the biggest differences in these abilities
are in seen in the more self-selective tests
where representative sampling is replaced with voluntary selection
so where psat mathematical differences were -.15
(weighted mean correlation)
high school problem solving tests showed -.29
college -.32
and the most selective tests -.54
with all trends decreasing
but maintaining the selection bias
and of course gender differences are not homogeneous
aggression
on the other hand
showed strong dimorphism in children (-.64)
which weakened into adulthood (-.29)
the data on whether this trend is decreasing is unclear
with some test showing mild improvement
and other surveys keeping fairly stable
..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in other words
this is very real
this is not made up *****
you can ignore as whining
real selective pressure is placed on women
because of male aggression
if you are a professor
and you participate in this behavior
you are not an earnest teacher
you are merely collecting paychecks
and maintaining the status quo
Um, ISTM what you're pursuing is generally called a "polemic". IOW
you assume a conclusion and seek data that support it while discarding
data that don't.
i am not discarding data
i am pointing to data
that one paper
despite its age
references a good crossesection of available studies
another good piece is:
" stereotype threat and women's math performance"
by steven j spencer, claude m steele, and diane m quinn
references are an important part of scientific investigation
i am quite willing to look at any you may have on the topic
most tests i am aware of
though
do note the behavioral tendencies mentioned
and there does seem to be evidence
that they combine to contribute to the also observed
differences in frequency of scientific and mathematical participation
I wrote a long (for me) post suggesting some actual strategies for
dealing with the difficulties you perceive but you appear to have
decided to ignore it. Why, because it does not support your foregone
conclusion? Was I not adequately aggressive?
no
i have planned on answering
i work for a living
and can only contribute so much time out of my day for answering
so sometimes my answers are delayed
you may notice that several people have accused me of ignoring them
despite my having answered a number of posts already
most trolls with their minds made up
post and leave
Or do you not want any solutions and merely wish to bash men in
general?
i very much want you to challenge my thinking with well supported
ideas
when i am wrong
and it happens very frequently
i need to find out so i don't wander around foolishly
making incorrect statements
sometimes
though
it can be fun to bash men
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
.
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
15 Apr 2007 05:57:47 AM |
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Don't c=F2l=F2niz runons.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
14 Apr 2007 05:56:00 PM |
|
|
On Apr 14, 10:04 am, "galathaea" <galath...@gmail.com> wrote:
n...@bid.ness wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:32 am, "galathaea" <galath...@gmail.com> wrote:
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
and this article is a much better resource
than may be indicated by that fragment
throughout it quotes correlation studies
showing not only measurable dimorphism test values
but also the trends those values are headed
it explores a number of tests
they explore how representative sampling
show no differences in
mathematical computation ability
and mathematical concept understand
but that there were differences in problem solving
which had been steadily decreasing
( and other more recent articles continue this trend )
the biggest differences in these abilities
are in seen in the more self-selective tests
where representative sampling is replaced with voluntary selection
so where psat mathematical differences were -.15
(weighted mean correlation)
high school problem solving tests showed -.29
college -.32
and the most selective tests -.54
with all trends decreasing
but maintaining the selection bias
and of course gender differences are not homogeneous
aggression
on the other hand
showed strong dimorphism in children (-.64)
which weakened into adulthood (-.29)
the data on whether this trend is decreasing is unclear
with some test showing mild improvement
and other surveys keeping fairly stable
..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in other words
this is very real
this is not made up *****
you can ignore as whining
real selective pressure is placed on women
because of male aggression
if you are a professor
and you participate in this behavior
you are not an earnest teacher
you are merely collecting paychecks
and maintaining the status quo
Um, ISTM what you're pursuing is generally called a "polemic". IOW
you assume a conclusion and seek data that support it while discarding
data that don't.
i am not discarding data
i am pointing to data
that one paper
despite its age
references a good crossesection of available studies
another good piece is:
" stereotype threat and women's math performance"
by steven j spencer, claude m steele, and diane m quinn
That right there points up the main focus of my participation in
this thread; if you don't want to be stereotyped, then don't! It is in
your power to be what you want (or at least to arrange your behaviors
so that others perceive you as you wish to be perceived).
references are an important part of scientific investigation
i am quite willing to look at any you may have on the topic
I am less interested in scholarly references written by persons with
unknown biases than I am in empirical data (unfortunately that's
dismissed as "anecdotal").
most tests i am aware of
though
do note the behavioral tendencies mentioned
and there does seem to be evidence
that they combine to contribute to the also observed
differences in frequency of scientific and mathematical participation
The reason you included the word "seems" is because you honestly
doubt all this, right?
I wrote a long (for me) post suggesting some actual strategies for
dealing with the difficulties you perceive but you appear to have
decided to ignore it. Why, because it does not support your foregone
conclusion? Was I not adequately aggressive?
no
i have planned on answering
i work for a living
and can only contribute so much time out of my day for answering
so sometimes my answers are delayed
Yeah, I know.
you may notice that several people have accused me of ignoring them
despite my having answered a number of posts already
Position-defending is a survival strategy. Unfortunately all of us
have the bad habit of forgetting that the terrain can shift under our
feet.
most trolls with their minds made up
post and leave
You already know what to do about trolls, yes? Look for the post I
made "OT Public Service Message" about the killfile addon for Gmail
(AFAIK only for Firefox). I suggest you use it sparingly though;
occasionally the worst loons blurt out useful gems.
Or do you not want any solutions and merely wish to bash men in
general?
i very much want you to challenge my thinking with well supported
ideas
The best support is reality. Are you old enough to have accrued
enough of your own experiences to challenge the polemicists on both
"sides" of the gender debate?
when i am wrong
and it happens very frequently
i need to find out so i don't wander around foolishly
making incorrect statements
That's a Good Thing.
sometimes
though
it can be fun to bash men
No, that's self-pity. Take up Aikido instead.
Mark L. Fergerson
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
14 Apr 2007 05:40:59 AM |
|
|
In article <1176498399.035709.156050@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
"nuny@bid.ness" <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote:
On Apr 13, 7:32 am, "galathaea" <galath...@gmail.com> wrote:
" gender, mathematics, and science "
by marcia c linn and janet s hyde
( educational researcher v 18 n 8 pp 17-27 )
states:
" Gender differences in aggression are generally
larger than gender differences in the cognitive
domain and may contribute to male success in
careers and in earning power. Teachers may pay
attention to male students because they aggressively
seek information, providing these students with
additional feedback, encouragement, and
opportunities for practice (Dweck, 1986).
Furthermore, in some fields, aggressive argumentation
is taken as a sign of intelligence rather than a
gender-related behavior. Finally, aggressive
behavior on the part of males may interact with
gender differences in confidence to deter females
from pursuing scientific careers and thus securing
increased salaries. "
and this article is a much better resource
than may be indicated by that fragment
throughout it quotes correlation studies
showing not only measurable dimorphism test values
but also the trends those values are headed
it explores a number of tests
they explore how representative sampling
show no differences in
mathematical computation ability
and mathematical concept understand
but that there were differences in problem solving
which had been steadily decreasing
( and other more recent articles continue this trend )
the biggest differences in these abilities
are in seen in the more self-selective tests
where representative sampling is replaced with voluntary selection
so where psat mathematical differences were -.15
(weighted mean correlation)
high school problem solving tests showed -.29
college -.32
and the most selective tests -.54
with all trends decreasing
but maintaining the selection bias
and of course gender differences are not homogeneous
aggression
on the other hand
showed strong dimorphism in children (-.64)
which weakened into adulthood (-.29)
the data on whether this trend is decreasing is unclear
with some test showing mild improvement
and other surveys keeping fairly stable
..~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
in other words
this is very real
this is not made up *****
you can ignore as whining
real selective pressure is placed on women
because of male aggression
if you are a professor
and you participate in this behavior
you are not an earnest teacher
you are merely collecting paychecks
and maintaining the status quo
Um, ISTM what you're pursuing is generally called a "polemic".
Is that the word for it? Is there a word for using this as
a social strategy to dumb down the general population?
IOW
you assume a conclusion and seek data that support it while discarding
data that don't.
I wrote a long (for me) post suggesting some actual strategies for
dealing with the difficulties you perceive but you appear to have
decided to ignore it. Why, because it does not support your foregone
conclusion? Was I not adequately aggressive?
Or do you not want any solutions and merely wish to bash men in
general?
In this thread, s/he/it appears to be targeting Carlip for
some reason I haven't figured out yet.
/BAH
.
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| User: "Day Brown" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
13 Apr 2007 10:01:33 PM |
|
|
Primate field studies give us the term "alpha male". Bloodwork shows
that the alphas have higher adrenalin (speeds reflexes, but also
creates impulsive aggression) and lower seratonin (which sharpens
senses, but makes for restless sleep. Its the alphas who are alert
enough at nite to warn everyone of prowling predators, but- "dont
bother your father, he just woke up" - grouchy.)
Its the alphas how man the line of battle defending the tribe. What
are the betas good for? Well, it turns out, that like the females,
they intuitively read body language so as to pick up on when an alpha
will impulsively strike out, and routinely place themselves between
the females and young. They are the same size as the alphas and can
take the blows without damage.
It turns out that the daughters of the alphas are similarly, but not
as aggressive. They also often abandon and abuse the young. It is the
betas and the daughters of the betas who adopt the orphans. Without
enough betas child mortaltity is too high to maintain the group.
Thus in hominid history we see that the alphas are terrific at winning
empires, but then cant maintain them. Their sons grow up with the same
instinct to want to dominate, and internal power struggles destroy the
nation. Thus it is that the next sultan is he who successfully murders
all his brothers.
Nowadays, the competition takes other forms, as in scientific and
economic competition. They dont seek to murder so much as simply
destroy a man's reputation. Ruin him.
Hominid evolution created very different pressures for the females.
They were stolen and traded to other tribes, and needed the emotional
flexibility to adapt to whatever the social values were. Men, OTOH,
were always known as steadfast, firm in their convictions. Shakespeare
has Casear say:"You will have to forgive the man Mercutio; he is a
barbarian who thinks the customs of his tribe are the laws of Nature."
And in scientific endeavor, we see tribal customs evolve. And get
defended fiercely. As women enter these fields, there is an instinct
to seek common ground and cooperate as they've always done with
whatever heirarchy they found themselves in.
Nature has clipped the extremes of the bell curve for women so as to
ensure some degree of sanity and competency to nurture kids. Which is
why most geniuses are men, but also, if you visit a mental
institution, so are the severe retards and psychotics. And sometimes,
we see a man move from genius into psychosis, or even vice versus.
Because females developed the instuitive body language skill so as to
avoid being the target of alpha aggression, they've also applied that
instinct to whatever organization they are in, and innately seek to
defuse situations lest they become an "ancillary casualty".
But both men and women are subject to group think. We did, after all,
evolve in small gene pools. And while it is most often a man who will
challenge the group think, it is the women who sort out who are the
trolls and who the innovators.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Androcles" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
15 Apr 2007 11:27:39 AM |
|
|
"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote in message =
news:1176519693.471143.178750@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
[no physics content to respond to]
Go away, woolly woofter.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences (references) |
14 Apr 2007 05:44:52 AM |
|
|
In article <1176519693.471143.178750@y5g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>,
"Day Brown" <daybrown@hughes.net> wrote:
Primate field studies give us the term "alpha male".
And you seem to have explicitly ignored the alpha female.
Bloodwork shows
that the alphas have higher adrenalin (speeds reflexes, but also
creates impulsive aggression) and lower seratonin (which sharpens
senses, but makes for restless sleep. Its the alphas who are alert
enough at nite to warn everyone of prowling predators, but- "dont
bother your father, he just woke up" - grouchy.)
Its the alphas how man the line of battle defending the tribe. What
are the betas good for? Well, it turns out, that like the females,
they intuitively read body language so as to pick up on when an alpha
will impulsively strike out, and routinely place themselves between
the females and young. They are the same size as the alphas and can
take the blows without damage.
It turns out that the daughters of the alphas are similarly, but not
as aggressive. They also often abandon and abuse the young. It is the
betas and the daughters of the betas who adopt the orphans. Without
enough betas child mortaltity is too high to maintain the group.
Thus in hominid history we see that the alphas are terrific at winning
empires, but then cant maintain them. Their sons grow up with the same
instinct to want to dominate, and internal power struggles destroy the
nation. Thus it is that the next sultan is he who successfully murders
all his brothers.
Nowadays, the competition takes other forms, as in scientific and
economic competition. They dont seek to murder so much as simply
destroy a man's reputation. Ruin him.
Hominid evolution created very different pressures for the females.
They were stolen and traded to other tribes, and needed the emotional
flexibility to adapt to whatever the social values were. Men, OTOH,
were always known as steadfast, firm in their convictions. Shakespeare
has Casear say:"You will have to forgive the man Mercutio; he is a
barbarian who thinks the customs of his tribe are the laws of Nature."
I think you've watched too many Hollywood movies.
And in scientific endeavor, we see tribal customs evolve. And get
defended fiercely. As women enter these fields, there is an instinct
to seek common ground and cooperate as they've always done with
whatever heirarchy they found themselves in.
Nature has clipped the extremes of the bell curve for women so as to
ensure some degree of sanity and competency to nurture kids. Which is
why most geniuses are men,
Huh?
but also, if you visit a mental
institution, so are the severe retards and psychotics. And sometimes,
we see a man move from genius into psychosis, or even vice versus.
Because females developed the instuitive body language skill so as to
avoid being the target of alpha aggression, they've also applied that
instinct to whatever organization they are in, and innately seek to
defuse situations lest they become an "ancillary casualty".
But both men and women are subject to group think. We did, after all,
evolve in small gene pools. And while it is most often a man who will
challenge the group think, it is the women who sort out who are the
trolls and who the innovators.
I'm going to assume you are a troll and don't really believe all
of this.
/BAH
.
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
|
| Title: Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man. |
14 Apr 2007 05:12:59 AM |
|
|
You've dismissed me, Galathaea, because I'm old and seldom bath/brush;
but you should realize that the ancient game of " king of the hill "
selects only a _ Few _ males, excluding the majority.
Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man.
Bill Gates' net worth is 56 gigadollars, but he can't buy youth.
Girls love the boys, not the old farts, no matter how rich.
Your life, my life, our lives, are our only true fortunes.
All wisdom, information and wealth pales compared to that.
_ Nothing _ reveses the hands of time.
I do not have a loving wife like this:
" www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Jeffs_Loving_Wife.JPG ",
....nor even a nasty ***** like this:
" www.KwasOnline.COM/images/mange%20skin%20infection%206.JPG ",
....I live alone.
I pay 430 U.S. dollars rent per month ( near the U.W. in Seattle );
no pets ( bye Wimpels ! ) and, effectively, no friends ( bye Duckie ! )
are allowed.
Coding for printers and developing courseware
are how I earn my living, so I live near campus in Seattle.
.
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| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man. |
14 Apr 2007 05:01:31 PM |
|
|
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_14_3_@Cotse.NET...
You've dismissed me, Galathaea, because I'm old and seldom bath/brush;
They are the *least* of your selling points.
Abject idiocy, a lack of understanding on pretty much every topic and the
social skills of a leech are much more significant.
Most people don't even know about your absent personal hygiene rituals.
but you should realize that the ancient game of " king of the hill "
selects only a _ Few _ males, excluding the majority.
Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man.
Bill Gates' net worth is 56 gigadollars, but he can't buy youth.
Girls love the boys, not the old farts, no matter how rich.
Your life, my life, our lives, are our only true fortunes.
All wisdom, information and wealth pales compared to that.
_ Nothing _ reveses the hands of time.
I do not have a loving wife like this:
" www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Jeffs_Loving_Wife.JPG ",
...nor even a nasty ***** like this:
" www.KwasOnline.COM/images/mange%20skin%20infection%206.JPG ",
...I live alone.
I pay 430 U.S. dollars rent per month ( near the U.W. in Seattle );
no pets ( bye Wimpels ! ) and, effectively, no friends ( bye Duckie ! )
are allowed.
Coding for printers and developing courseware
are how I earn my living, so I live near campus in Seattle.
It is how you earn your living. The fact you live on the breadline is a
testament to your skill.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Art Deco" |
|
| Title: Re: Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man. |
14 Apr 2007 05:31:31 PM |
|
|
T Wake <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_14_3_@Cotse.NET...
You've dismissed me, Galathaea, because I'm old and seldom bath/brush;
They are the *least* of your selling points.
Abject idiocy, a lack of understanding on pretty much every topic and the
social skills of a leech are much more significant.
Most people don't even know about your absent personal hygiene rituals.
but you should realize that the ancient game of " king of the hill "
selects only a _ Few _ males, excluding the majority.
Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man.
Bill Gates' net worth is 56 gigadollars, but he can't buy youth.
Girls love the boys, not the old farts, no matter how rich.
Your life, my life, our lives, are our only true fortunes.
All wisdom, information and wealth pales compared to that.
_ Nothing _ reveses the hands of time.
I do not have a loving wife like this:
" www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Jeffs_Loving_Wife.JPG ",
...nor even a nasty ***** like this:
" www.KwasOnline.COM/images/mange%20skin%20infection%206.JPG ",
...I live alone.
I pay 430 U.S. dollars rent per month ( near the U.W. in Seattle );
no pets ( bye Wimpels ! ) and, effectively, no friends ( bye Duckie ! )
are allowed.
Coding for printers and developing courseware
are how I earn my living, so I live near campus in Seattle.
It is how you earn your living. The fact you live on the breadline is a
testament to your skill.
<blink>
Did he really post this?
<boggle>
--
Supreme Leader of the Brainwashed Followers of Art Deco
"Still suffering from reading comprehension problems, Deco?
The section is clearly attributed to Art Deco, not to you, Deco."
-- Dr. David Tholen
"Who is "David Tholen", Daedalus? Still suffering from
attribution problems?"
-- Dr. David Tholen
.
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| User: "John \C" |
|
| Title: Re: Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man. |
14 Apr 2007 05:38:12 PM |
|
|
"Art Deco" <erfc@caballista.org> wrote in message
news:140420071631316251%erfc@caballista.org...
T Wake <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_14_3_@Cotse.NET...
You've dismissed me, Galathaea, because I'm old and seldom bath/brush;
They are the *least* of your selling points.
Abject idiocy, a lack of understanding on pretty much every topic and the
social skills of a leech are much more significant.
Most people don't even know about your absent personal hygiene rituals.
but you should realize that the ancient game of " king of the hill "
selects only a _ Few _ males, excluding the majority.
Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man.
Bill Gates' net worth is 56 gigadollars, but he can't buy youth.
Girls love the boys, not the old farts, no matter how rich.
Your life, my life, our lives, are our only true fortunes.
All wisdom, information and wealth pales compared to that.
_ Nothing _ reveses the hands of time.
I do not have a loving wife like this:
" www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Jeffs_Loving_Wife.JPG ",
...nor even a nasty ***** like this:
" www.KwasOnline.COM/images/mange%20skin%20infection%206.JPG ",
...I live alone.
I pay 430 U.S. dollars rent per month ( near the U.W. in Seattle );
no pets ( bye Wimpels ! ) and, effectively, no friends ( bye Duckie ! )
are allowed.
Coding for printers and developing courseware
are how I earn my living, so I live near campus in Seattle.
It is how you earn your living. The fact you live on the breadline is a
testament to your skill.
<blink>
Did he really post this?
<boggle>
Don't take much to boggle the mind of an Old fart with "Hardening Of The
Brain" disease.
HJ
.
|
|
|
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| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man. |
14 Apr 2007 07:03:24 PM |
|
|
"Art Deco" <erfc@caballista.org> wrote in message
news:140420071631316251%erfc@caballista.org...
T Wake <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_14_3_@Cotse.NET...
You've dismissed me, Galathaea, because I'm old and seldom bath/brush;
They are the *least* of your selling points.
Abject idiocy, a lack of understanding on pretty much every topic and the
social skills of a leech are much more significant.
Most people don't even know about your absent personal hygiene rituals.
but you should realize that the ancient game of " king of the hill "
selects only a _ Few _ males, excluding the majority.
Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man.
Bill Gates' net worth is 56 gigadollars, but he can't buy youth.
Girls love the boys, not the old farts, no matter how rich.
Your life, my life, our lives, are our only true fortunes.
All wisdom, information and wealth pales compared to that.
_ Nothing _ reveses the hands of time.
I do not have a loving wife like this:
" www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Jeffs_Loving_Wife.JPG ",
...nor even a nasty ***** like this:
" www.KwasOnline.COM/images/mange%20skin%20infection%206.JPG ",
...I live alone.
I pay 430 U.S. dollars rent per month ( near the U.W. in Seattle );
no pets ( bye Wimpels ! ) and, effectively, no friends ( bye Duckie ! )
are allowed.
Coding for printers and developing courseware
are how I earn my living, so I live near campus in Seattle.
It is how you earn your living. The fact you live on the breadline is a
testament to your skill.
<blink>
Did he really post this?
<boggle>
Sadly (or entertainingly, depends on your mindset), yes. Jeff did indeed
post this.
I think this is what Jeff calls a chat up line...
.
|
|
|
| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
|
| Title: Re: Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man. |
14 Apr 2007 07:08:26 PM |
|
|
In article <JO-dnR8R2PPd8bzbnZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
Sadly (or entertainingly, depends on your mindset), yes. Jeff did indeed
post this.
I think this is what Jeff calls a chat up line...
BWAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
--
Got mail? I did ;-) Three and counting.
Got proof? Not yet, still waiting.
.
|
|
|
| User: "John \C" |
|
| Title: Re: Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man. |
14 Apr 2007 07:17:40 PM |
|
|
"Phineas T Puddleduck" <phineaspuddleduck@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:phineaspuddleduck-E52884.01082615042007@news.octanews.com...
In article <JO-dnR8R2PPd8bzbnZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@pipex.net>,
"T Wake" <usenet.es7at@gishpuppy.com> wrote:
Sadly (or entertainingly, depends on your mindset), yes. Jeff did indeed
post this.
I think this is what Jeff calls a chat up line...
BWAHAHHAHAHHAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAH
Is that what you say when you give your "Luv" Art Deco a Hummer?
HJ
.
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| User: "galathaea" |
|
| Title: if i were to create the next google |
14 Apr 2007 04:34:43 PM |
|
|
On Apr 14, 3:12 am, Jeff...Relf <Jeff_R...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
You've dismissed me, Galathaea, because I'm old and seldom bath/brush;
but you should realize that the ancient game of " king of the hill "
selects only a _ Few _ males, excluding the majority.
Yeah, Bill Gates is rich, but he's only one man.
Bill Gates' net worth is 56 gigadollars, but he can't buy youth.
Girls love the boys, not the old farts, no matter how rich.
Your life, my life, our lives, are our only true fortunes.
All wisdom, information and wealth pales compared to that.
_ Nothing _ reveses the hands of time.
I do not have a loving wife like this:
"www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Jeffs_Loving_Wife.JPG",
...nor even a nasty ***** like this:
"www.KwasOnline.COM/images/mange%20skin%20infection%206.JPG",
...I live alone.
I pay 430 U.S. dollars rent per month ( near the U.W. in Seattle );
no pets ( bye Wimpels ! ) and, effectively, no friends ( bye Duckie ! )
are allowed.
Coding for printers and developing courseware
are how I earn my living, so I live near campus in Seattle.
if i were to build the next
multibillionaire making technology company
i too would make a search engine like google
but i would sell secret control to the american cia
for a few billions of those "black funds" per annum
then they could control access to all information
by building the corporation into the largest archival company
and forcing competition into bankruptcy
( and forfeiture of archival )
they could keep china's restrictions on for most of the continent
but for small bands of resistance
the could identify ip addresses and allow
( through clever cia programming trickery )
the resistance access to sensitive information
without being caught by their major internet sniffing routes
i would use the initial landfall of money
to start up weapons companies
and with my new cia connections i would
instigate small conflicts for fun and profit
then
when i reached 50
i would try to find a cure for syphilis
to ease my worried soul over my murderous life
then i'd go live somewhere in southeast asia
..
but money is not my goal
so i will " do no evil "
( in the famous phrase )
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: Screenshots of ( ad-free ) Google. |
15 Apr 2007 12:48:08 AM |
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When you need to look up a post you made 10 years ago, Galathaea,
which search engine do you use ? Yahoo ? with its flashy ads ?
Who, other than Google, can calculate
" 3.7 million * 2.95 km in AU = " ?
Why do people shovel 11 gigadollars to Google every year ?
Speaking of Google... Here's some screenshots,
including what ( ad-free ) Google looks like to me:
Images show full-size, not scaled down:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Full_Size.PNG
www.Stat.OregonState.EDU/people/qu
Dictionary.COM, Thee best Spell Checker I know of:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Dictionary.PNG
http://Dictionary.Reference.COM/browse/Relf
Answers.COM, Google's reference " book ":
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Answers.PNG
www.Answers.COM/big+bang
A Google Groups search:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Google_Groups_Search.PNG
http://Google.COM/groups/search?q=Jeff%E2%80%A6Relf
Using Google to Find a Message-ID:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Google_Groups_MID.PNG
http://Google.COM/advanced_group_search
Viewing a Usenet post in Google:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Google_Groups_Post.PNG
http://Google.COM/group/sci.physics/msg/4864b8516b2d5b57
Browsing a Usenet thread using Google:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Google_Groups_Browse.PNG
http://Google.COM/group/sci.physics/browse_thread/thread/deaea9878a587665/792a0c107c0bf39c?lnk=st&q=%22Frazir%22
Translator for Portuguese, Russian, French, Spanish, Italian, German:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/ParaLink.PNG
http://Translation.ParaLink.COM
Google Images:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Google_Images.PNG
http://Google.COM/images?imgsz=xxlarge&q=%22Big+Bang%22
userChrome.CSS and userContent.CSS:
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/userContent.CSS
www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/userChrome.CSS
My " Desktop --> Properties --> Themes " settings for Windows-XP,
" www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Jeff_Relf.Theme "
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Screenshots of ( ad-free ) Google. |
15 Apr 2007 06:14:15 AM |
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On Apr 14, 10:48 pm, Jeff...Relf <Jeff_R...@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
When you need to look up a post you made 10 years ago, Galathaea,
which search engine do you use ? Yahoo ? with its flashy ads ?
Who, other than Google, can calculate
" 3.7 million * 2.95 km in AU = " ?
Why do people shovel 11 gigadollars to Google every year ?
Speaking of Google... Here's some screenshots,
including what ( ad-free ) Google looks like to me:
Images show full-size, not scaled down:www.Cotse.NET/users/jeffrelf/Full_Size.PNGwww.Stat.OregonState.EDU/people/qu
http://google.com/groups?q=Autymn+acronum+OR+punctuation
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences |
14 Apr 2007 05:50:07 PM |
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Both/All folks are nescient dolts.
R^2 != 2^R
One can bring up the female alfa problem in faketh and the societies.
Hate everyone and everything. Dash them, thrash them, burn them.
Then onely the truthe can livvan.
-Aut
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: They censored Don Imus, but they can't censor me. |
13 Apr 2007 06:57:45 AM |
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Hi Galathaea,
Uncle Al recently told me he was sending reports to my I.S.P.
People constantly tell me to stop posting. But I'm still here.
Today, in " news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_12_9_@Cotse.NET ",
I told Randy Poe to take it to " Alt.Randy-Poe-is-King ".
They censored Don Imus, but they can't censor me.
So who cares what the wannabe consors say ? not me.
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| User: "T Wake" |
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| Title: Re: They censored Don Imus, but they can't censor me. |
13 Apr 2007 07:31:45 AM |
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"Jeff.Relf" <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote in message
news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_13_3_@Cotse.NET...
Hi Galathaea,
Uncle Al recently told me he was sending reports to my I.S.P.
People constantly tell me to stop posting. But I'm still here.
What does that tell you about you?
Today, in " news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_12_9_@Cotse.NET ",
I told Randy Poe to take it to " Alt.Randy-Poe-is-King ".
And you thought that lame was so funny, you cant stop going on about it.
Well done jeff.
They censored Don Imus, but they can't censor me.
So who cares what the wannabe consors say ? not me.
Jeff, you are priceless.
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: They censored Don Imus, but they can't censor me. |
13 Apr 2007 07:01:19 AM |
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In article <Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_13_3_@Cotse.NET>,
JeffRelf <Jeff_Relf@Yahoo.COM> wrote:
Hi Galathaea,
Uncle Al recently told me he was sending reports to my I.S.P.
People constantly tell me to stop posting. But I'm still here.
Today, in " news:Jeff_Relf_2007_Apr_12_9_@Cotse.NET ",
I told Randy Poe to take it to " Alt.Randy-Poe-is-King ".
They censored Don Imus, but they can't censor me.
So who cares what the wannabe consors say ? not me.
So you admit you're a troll?
We don't need to worry much more anyway. Once you're panhandling on the
street, usenet will be the least of your worries.
--
Got mail? I did ;-) Three and counting.
Got proof? Not yet, still waiting.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: the male alpha problem in math and the sciences |
12 Apr 2007 11:32:40 AM |
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In sci.physics galathaea <galathaea@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
lately on these newgroups
steve carlip
whom i had always thought provided well-thought out responses
wrote:
" If you want to work on Bohmian mechanics as a program that
*might* eventually lead to a deterministic alternative to QFT,
that's fine (though be careful of your citations -- a number of
the QFT models you've referred to are explicitly *not* deterministic).
But don't confuse your hopes with what has actually been shown
to be possible. "
did carlip know enough of bohmian mechanics to make this assertion?
of course not
like most posters in the thread
he only started reading the literature after i posted links to it
And how, exactly, did you reach this conclusion? Was it because I cited
a paper by Nikolic, which I knew about because I had been following his
work and heard several of his talks (most recently at the DICE conference
last fall)? Or because I was unenthusiastic about some Bohmian papers
in my field, quantum gravity (which, if you want specifics, were based on
"minisuperspace models," models that throw out almost all of the physical
degrees of freedom and thereby avoid most of the difficult issues in quantum
gravity)? Or maybe because you think that no one who is familiar with the
literature could possibly question your optimism?
For your information, I have been interested in the de Broglie-Bohm approach
since reading de Broglie's _Non-linear wave mechanics: A causal interpretation_
as an undergraduate, and a bit later Bell's famous essay on de Broglie and Bohm.
I have not followed the whole field very closely, but have read some papers in
detail -- for example, Nikolic's attempts to find a covariant formulation, and
most of the recent work on Bohmian quantum gravity (the Shojais', but also
Horiguchi, Kenmoku et al., and de Barros et al.).
I apologize if my post seemed too dismissive. But I *do* object to you -- or
anyone else -- writing, in a forum aimed at nonexperts, in a way that implies
that crucial questions are settled when in fact they are not.
Steve Carlip
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