| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Pentcho Valev" |
| Date: |
22 Dec 2006 11:33:15 AM |
| Object: |
THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
If you insert a SOLID dielectric between two opposite charges, the
polarization in the dielectric INCREASES the original force of
attraction between the charges.
However if you insert a LIQUID dielectric (e.g. water) that wets the
charges, the polarization in the dielectric generates a PRESSURE that
pushes the charges apart and so DECREASES the original force of
attraction between them. The decrease "cannot be explained by
electrical forces alone", as Panofsky and Phillips put it in 1962. In
my view, this pressure is the most mysterious force in science - see
more in:
http://www.wbabin.net/valev/valev2.htm
Pentcho Valev
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| User: "Robin" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
09 Jan 2007 10:39:59 PM |
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In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Pentcho Valev wrote:
If you insert a SOLID dielectric between two opposite charges, the
polarization in the dielectric INCREASES the original force of
attraction between the charges.
However if you insert a LIQUID dielectric (e.g. water) that wets the
charges, the polarization in the dielectric generates a PRESSURE that
pushes the charges apart and so DECREASES the original force of
attraction between them. The decrease "cannot be explained by
electrical forces alone", as Panofsky and Phillips put it in 1962. In
my view, this pressure is the most mysterious force in science - see
more in:
http://www.wbabin.net/valev/valev2.htm
Pentcho Valev
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
09 Jan 2007 10:42:57 PM |
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In article <1168403999.575679.71630@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robin" <hoopersare@shaw.ca> writes:
In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Not at all. Mercury and Gallium do the same.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Robert S" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
10 Jan 2007 05:21:01 PM |
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wrote:
In article <1168403999.575679.71630@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robin" <hoopersare@shaw.ca> writes:
In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Not at all. Mercury and Gallium do the same.
Gallium yes, and also Bismuth. Mercury doesn't.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
10 Jan 2007 05:39:04 PM |
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In article <1168471261.335382.171940@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1168403999.575679.71630@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robin" <hoopersare@shaw.ca> writes:
In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Not at all. Mercury and Gallium do the same.
Gallium yes, and also Bismuth. Mercury doesn't.
Hmm, had this memory reading about mercury thermometers shattering
when freezing but perhaps this was an exaggeration.
BTW, silicon and germanium also expand when freezing.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Robert S" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
10 Jan 2007 06:25:35 PM |
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wrote:
In article <1168471261.335382.171940@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
wrote:
In article <1168403999.575679.71630@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robin" <hoopersare@shaw.ca> writes:
In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Not at all. Mercury and Gallium do the same.
Gallium yes, and also Bismuth. Mercury doesn't.
Hmm, had this memory reading about mercury thermometers shattering
when freezing but perhaps this was an exaggeration.
BTW, silicon and germanium also expand when freezing.
At the melting point (-38.87 C) the density of solid Mercury is 14.19
g/cm3, liquid is 13.69 g/cm3, so the shattering must be caused by
something else.
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
11 Jan 2007 07:10:42 AM |
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"Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168475135.533003.27320@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
At the melting point (-38.87 C) the density of solid Mercury is 14.19
g/cm3, liquid is 13.69 g/cm3, so the shattering must be caused by
something else.
Hmmm. What's the difference in coefficients of expansion
between solid mercury and the surrounding container (glass)?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
10 Jan 2007 07:34:10 PM |
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In article <1168475135.533003.27320@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1168471261.335382.171940@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1168403999.575679.71630@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robin" <hoopersare@shaw.ca> writes:
In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Not at all. Mercury and Gallium do the same.
Gallium yes, and also Bismuth. Mercury doesn't.
Hmm, had this memory reading about mercury thermometers shattering
when freezing but perhaps this was an exaggeration.
BTW, silicon and germanium also expand when freezing.
At the melting point (-38.87 C) the density of solid Mercury is 14.19
g/cm3, liquid is 13.69 g/cm3, so the shattering must be caused by
something else.
Might be just an urban legend.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
11 Jan 2007 12:08:43 AM |
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wrote:
In article <1168475135.533003.27320@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
wrote:
In article <1168471261.335382.171940@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
wrote:
In article <1168403999.575679.71630@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robin" <hoopersare@shaw.ca> writes:
In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Not at all. Mercury and Gallium do the same.
Gallium yes, and also Bismuth. Mercury doesn't.
Hmm, had this memory reading about mercury thermometers shattering
when freezing but perhaps this was an exaggeration.
BTW, silicon and germanium also expand when freezing.
At the melting point (-38.87 C) the density of solid Mercury is 14.19
g/cm3, liquid is 13.69 g/cm3, so the shattering must be caused by
something else.
Might be just an urban legend.
Like String Theory ?
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
11 Jan 2007 01:48:34 AM |
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In article <1168495723.351419.145910@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, writes:
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1168475135.533003.27320@i56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1168471261.335382.171940@o58g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>, "Robert S" <roberts218e@gmail.com> writes:
mme...@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <1168403999.575679.71630@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, "Robin" <hoopersare@shaw.ca> writes:
In my experience water an unusual material, its also the only liquid
that expandes when freezing.
Not at all. Mercury and Gallium do the same.
Gallium yes, and also Bismuth. Mercury doesn't.
Hmm, had this memory reading about mercury thermometers shattering
when freezing but perhaps this was an exaggeration.
BTW, silicon and germanium also expand when freezing.
At the melting point (-38.87 C) the density of solid Mercury is 14.19
g/cm3, liquid is 13.69 g/cm3, so the shattering must be caused by
something else.
Might be just an urban legend.
Like String Theory ?
While dignifying String Theory by the term "theory" is somewhat
premature, it certainly cannot be descibed as urban legend. The term
doesn't apply at all.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
.
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| User: "Timothy Golden BandTechnology.com" |
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| Title: Re: THE MOST MYSTERIOUS FORCE IN SCIENCE |
23 Dec 2006 08:03:57 AM |
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Pentcho Valev wrote:
If you insert a SOLID dielectric between two opposite charges, the
polarization in the dielectric INCREASES the original force of
attraction between the charges.
However if you insert a LIQUID dielectric (e.g. water) that wets the
charges, the polarization in the dielectric generates a PRESSURE that
pushes the charges apart and so DECREASES the original force of
attraction between them. The decrease "cannot be explained by
electrical forces alone", as Panofsky and Phillips put it in 1962. In
my view, this pressure is the most mysterious force in science - see
more in:
http://www.wbabin.net/valev/valev2.htm
Pentcho Valev
I have spent little time on dielectric properties but would like to
learn more.
As I review your link above it strikes me that your primary concern is
of a static problem.
The efficiency of the distilled water dielectric may be very poor while
still providing insulation at a static potential. By passing an AC
signal to the watered down capacitor will heat be generated? I am
guilty of not reading your work all the way through so I apologize if
you've already answered this in your link's later stages.
-Tim
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