| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Edward Green" |
| Date: |
02 Jul 2003 01:57:06 PM |
| Object: |
The Peculiar Peripatetic Electric Field |
Consider the life of the electron. All it knows, significantly, is
the electric field. If it's pushed this way, it is the electric
field. If something opposes its motion, that's the electric field
again.
And yet there seems to be field, and then field. If an electron is
driven around a wire by a battery, that's because a field is set up
between the poles of the battery. The movement of the electron is
opposed by resistance -- which is mediated by ... the electric field.
In fact, given that the electron has a constant drift velocity, the
time average electric field around a circuit of the circuit must be --
zero. Peculiar. And equally peculiar is what is going on inside the
battery [ignoring the identity of charge carriers now]. Here, by
courtesy, we label electric field acting against the the nominal
"electric field" the "electromotive force". And just how is the
electromotive force communicated to the carrier? That's right -- by
the only game in town: the electric field!
Peculiar.
In fact, it seems like no matter what we do, the electron sees almost
all the time the same damn thing: a time-averaged electric field of
zero. Obviously, this somehow doesn't capture the whole story. I have
some pieces of a resolution of this quasi-paradox (of course I am not
suggesting any real paradox). But first I'd like to open to floor.
Be careful of the hole. :-)
Your thoughts?
.
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| User: "Mathew Orman" |
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| Title: Re: The Peculiar Peripatetic Electric Field |
03 Jul 2003 01:01:56 AM |
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"Edward Green" <nulldev00@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2a0cceff.0307021057.3b452459@posting.google.com...
Consider the life of the electron. All it knows, significantly, is
the electric field. If it's pushed this way, it is the electric
field. If something opposes its motion, that's the electric field
again.
And yet there seems to be field, and then field. If an electron is
driven around a wire by a battery, that's because a field is set up
between the poles of the battery. The movement of the electron is
opposed by resistance -- which is mediated by ... the electric field.
In fact, given that the electron has a constant drift velocity, the
time average electric field around a circuit of the circuit must be --
zero. Peculiar. And equally peculiar is what is going on inside the
battery [ignoring the identity of charge carriers now]. Here, by
courtesy, we label electric field acting against the the nominal
"electric field" the "electromotive force". And just how is the
electromotive force communicated to the carrier? That's right -- by
the only game in town: the electric field!
Peculiar.
In fact, it seems like no matter what we do, the electron sees almost
all the time the same damn thing: a time-averaged electric field of
zero. Obviously, this somehow doesn't capture the whole story. I have
some pieces of a resolution of this quasi-paradox (of course I am not
suggesting any real paradox). But first I'd like to open to floor.
Be careful of the hole. :-)
Your thoughts?
Who gave you the Idea that electron has a constant drift velocity!
There isn't an electron in entire universe that moves in constant velocity!
Sincerely,
Mathew Orman
www.ultra-faster-than-light.com
www.radio-fasterthan-light.com
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: The Peculiar Peripatetic Electric Field |
03 Jul 2003 10:20:58 AM |
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"Mathew Orman" <orman@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<be0gpb$im9$1@news.onet.pl>...
Who gave you the Idea that electron has a constant drift velocity!
There isn't an electron in entire universe that moves in constant velocity!
I used "drift velocity" as a term of art: meaning the time averaged
velocity. Since the suitably time-averaged velocities of electrons in
a resistive wire is constant, it follows that the detailed
time-average electric field is zero, however they are bumped along on
the way.
Please carry on with your suggestions as to my defects.
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| User: "Paul Cardinale" |
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| Title: Re: The Peculiar Peripatetic Electric Field |
02 Jul 2003 05:40:00 PM |
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(Edward Green) wrote in message news:<2a0cceff.0307021057.3b452459@posting.google.com>...
Consider the life of the electron. All it knows, significantly, is
the electric field. If it's pushed this way, it is the electric
field. If something opposes its motion, that's the electric field
again.
And yet there seems to be field, and then field. If an electron is
driven around a wire by a battery, that's because a field is set up
between the poles of the battery. The movement of the electron is
opposed by resistance -- which is mediated by ... the electric field.
In fact, given that the electron has a constant drift velocity, the
time average electric field around a circuit of the circuit must be --
zero. Peculiar. And equally peculiar is what is going on inside the
battery [ignoring the identity of charge carriers now]. Here, by
courtesy, we label electric field acting against the the nominal
"electric field" the "electromotive force". And just how is the
electromotive force communicated to the carrier? That's right -- by
the only game in town: the electric field!
Peculiar.
In fact, it seems like no matter what we do, the electron sees almost
all the time the same damn thing: a time-averaged electric field of
zero. Obviously, this somehow doesn't capture the whole story. I have
some pieces of a resolution of this quasi-paradox (of course I am not
suggesting any real paradox). But first I'd like to open to floor.
Be careful of the hole. :-)
Your thoughts?
Study QED.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: The Peculiar Peripatetic Electric Field |
02 Jul 2003 11:47:43 PM |
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Edward Green wrote:
Consider the life of the electron. All it knows, significantly, is
the electric field. If it's pushed this way, it is the electric
field. If something opposes its motion, that's the electric field
again.
And yet there seems to be field, and then field. If an electron is
driven around a wire by a battery, that's because a field is set up
between the poles of the battery. The movement of the electron is
opposed by resistance -- which is mediated by ... the electric field.
In fact, given that the electron has a constant drift velocity, the
time average electric field around a circuit of the circuit must be --
zero. Peculiar. And equally peculiar is what is going on inside the
battery [ignoring the identity of charge carriers now]. Here, by
courtesy, we label electric field acting against the the nominal
"electric field" the "electromotive force". And just how is the
electromotive force communicated to the carrier? That's right -- by
the only game in town: the electric field!
Peculiar.
In fact, it seems like no matter what we do, the electron sees almost
all the time the same damn thing: a time-averaged electric field of
zero. Obviously, this somehow doesn't capture the whole story. I have
some pieces of a resolution of this quasi-paradox (of course I am not
suggesting any real paradox). But first I'd like to open to floor.
Be careful of the hole. :-)
Try: http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/QuantumElectrodynamics.html
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| User: "Richard" |
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| Title: Re: The Peculiar Peripatetic Electric Field |
02 Jul 2003 06:04:52 PM |
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Edward Green wrote:
Consider the life of the electron. All it knows, significantly, is
the electric field. If it's pushed this way, it is the electric
field. If something opposes its motion, that's the electric field
again.
And yet there seems to be field, and then field. If an electron is
driven around a wire by a battery, that's because a field is set up
between the poles of the battery. The movement of the electron is
opposed by resistance -- which is mediated by ... the electric field.
In fact, given that the electron has a constant drift velocity, the
time average electric field around a circuit of the circuit must be --
zero. Peculiar. And equally peculiar is what is going on inside the
battery [ignoring the identity of charge carriers now]. Here, by
courtesy, we label electric field acting against the the nominal
"electric field" the "electromotive force". And just how is the
electromotive force communicated to the carrier? That's right -- by
the only game in town: the electric field!
Peculiar.
In fact, it seems like no matter what we do, the electron sees almost
all the time the same damn thing: a time-averaged electric field of
zero. Obviously, this somehow doesn't capture the whole story. I have
some pieces of a resolution of this quasi-paradox (of course I am not
suggesting any real paradox). But first I'd like to open to floor.
Be careful of the hole. :-)
Your thoughts?
You have included 'several' faulty premises in your argument. Vector
fields (or if you prefer, 'bosons') mediate the interactions of the
charges, the electric field is only a superficial description of a much
more complex series of interactions. Try accounting for emf within the
battery in terms of static electric fields alone. No arrangement of
static charges within a closed volume, of itself, can provide a net
voltage across the outer edges of that volume.
--
Richard Perry
http://www.cswnet.com/~rper/Electromagnetism.pdf
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