The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional!



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Nick"
Date: 23 Jun 2005 09:17:12 PM
Object: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional!
The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.
But its motion isn't relative. If its mass comes
from its kinetic energy or speed then all light
particles would have the same mass.
Not a valid argument you see.
If you are to argue light's relativistic mass
then you must argue it comes from its wave and
would be quantified/measured by its wavelength.
The relativity of the energy of a light wave
though is directional. The Doppler shift on
light can make the wavelength grow(lower energy)
if you are moving away from the light source; or
it can make the wavelength shrink (higher energy)
by moving toward it.
This is only energy. It's not mass.
It is interesting to note that for accelerated
matter relativistic mass goes up regardless of
direction of motion. It is only relative to
speed not direction.
So you can see relativistic mass for light is
a totally different beast than relativistic mass
for matter in motion!
How can the mass of light depend upon direction?
Its nonsense
Light is massless.
.

User: "Bilge"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:19:17 AM
Nick:

The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.


Here in physics land, we call that momentum because the
word mass already means something else.


But its motion isn't relative. If its mass comes


Go drown yourself.
.
User: "Nick"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 03:02:12 AM
Bilge wrote:

Nick:

The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.


Here in physics land, we call that momentum because the
word mass already means something else.


But its motion isn't relative. If its mass comes


Go drown yourself.

Its mass is in the wave!!!
.
User: "T Wake"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:42:38 PM
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119596532.297124.73240@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...



Bilge wrote:

Nick:

The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.


Here in physics land, we call that momentum because the
word mass already means something else.


But its motion isn't relative. If its mass comes


Go drown yourself.


Its mass is in the wave!!!

Why cant you just wave good bye.
.



User: "T Wake"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:42:24 PM
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119579432.596269.195880@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.

Is this an argument the voices in your head have?
.

User: "Morituri-|-Max"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:11:00 AM
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119579432.596269.195880@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.

Quiet, child.
.

User: "sue jahn"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 23 Jun 2005 10:02:42 PM
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1119579432.596269.195880@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.

Who would make that argument ?


But its motion isn't relative. If its mass comes
from its kinetic energy or speed then all light
particles would have the same mass.
Not a valid argument you see.
If you are to argue light's relativistic mass
then you must argue it comes from its wave and
would be quantified/measured by its wavelength.

The relativity of the energy of a light wave
though is directional. The Doppler shift on
light can make the wavelength grow(lower energy)
if you are moving away from the light source; or
it can make the wavelength shrink (higher energy)
by moving toward it.

This is only energy. It's not mass.

It is interesting to note that for accelerated
matter relativistic mass goes up regardless of
direction of motion. It is only relative to
speed not direction.

So you can see relativistic mass for light is
a totally different beast than relativistic mass
for matter in motion!

How can the mass of light depend upon direction?
Its nonsense

Light is massless.

Indeed!
<< Since electromagnetic radiation possesses
momentum then it must exert a force on bodies
which absorb (or emit) radiation. Suppose that a
body is placed in a beam of perfectly collimated
radiation, which it absorbs completely. The amount
of momentum absorbed per unit time, per unit cross-
sectional area, is simply the amount of momentum
contained in a volume of length and unit cross-sectional
area; i.e., times the momentum density . An absorbed
momentum per unit time, per unit area, is equivalent to
a pressure. In other words, the radiation exerts a pressure
on the body. Thus, the ``radiation pressure'' is given by
equation (807)
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/em1/lectures/node63.html
Sue...


.

User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 10:58:51 AM
Nick wrote:


The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.

[snip]
Momentum, idiot.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.

User: "Bjoern Feuerbacher"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 05:27:08 AM
Nick wrote:

The argument is that light has no rest mass but
has mass by virtue of its motion.

Vaguely right.

But its motion isn't relative.

It is.

If its mass comes
from its kinetic energy or speed then all light
particles would have the same mass.

Non sequitur, since "same speed" does not imply "same
kinetic energy" automatically.

Not a valid argument you see.

Indeed, what you presented was not a valid argument.
Great that you see that even yourself.
[snip more nonsense]
Bye,
Bjoern
.

User: "Y.Porat"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 10:03:29 AM
you are massless
the photon has mass rest mass
not relativistic and not shmelativistic!!
Y.Porat
--------------------------
.
User: "T Wake"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:43:14 PM
"Y.Porat" <maporat@012.net.il> wrote in message
news:1119625409.752351.76380@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

you are massless

the photon has mass rest mass
not relativistic and not shmelativistic!!

Y.Porat
--------------------------

In all your posts that has the least accidental spelling mistakes and is
almost coherent. You are slipping.
.

User: "tadchem"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 10:30:11 AM
How do you weigh a resting photon?
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
.
User: "T Wake"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:43:39 PM
"tadchem" <thomas.davidson@dla.mil> wrote in message
news:1119627011.109593.122870@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

How do you weigh a resting photon?

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

At the whale weigh station.
Oh.
Damn.
Wrong joke.
.
User: "tadchem"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:49:22 PM
Make that 'the wight twack"...
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
.

User: "tadchem"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 01:48:25 PM
You are on the right track, though.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
.


User: "Nick"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 03:57:58 PM
Tadchem, its not that the rest mass of light is zero.
Its that it doesn't even exist(the null set) You can't bring
light to rest. Such a beast doesn't exist.
This is what is wrong with black hole singularities.
If light fell into one; as it always would; then
light's energy would immendiately become zero.
It wouldnolonger be moving.
Singlarities are a violation of the law of conservation
of energy.
.
User: "T Wake"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 24 Jun 2005 05:57:55 PM
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119646678.320160.188720@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Tadchem, its not that the rest mass of light is zero.
Its that it doesn't even exist(the null set) You can't bring
light to rest. Such a beast doesn't exist.

Can you explain your logic in this, step by step please.

This is what is wrong with black hole singularities.
If light fell into one; as it always would; then
light's energy would immendiately become zero.
It wouldnolonger be moving.

Same again.

Singlarities are a violation of the law of conservation
of energy.

And one last time please.
.
User: "Nick"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 25 Jun 2005 08:05:07 PM
Tag along twake!
.
User: "T Wake"

Title: Re: The relativistic mass of light? It would be directional! 26 Jun 2005 05:22:24 AM
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119747907.479005.312980@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Tag along twake!

Tag along with what Nick?
.







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