Science > Physics > Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*?
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Radium" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2006 01:21:20 PM |
| Object: |
Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
<"Burn" Topic Continued from Last Year!>
I hope you all had a happy winter break. For me, work starts on January
3rd on Tuesday.
I hope my persistence on this question about thermal burns is not
annoying anyone.
PD wrote:
Radium wrote:
Bob wrote:
On 16 Dec 2005 22:37:41 -0800, "Radium" <gluceg...@excite.com> wrote:
Okay but what other symptoms would occur? Would the skin texture
change? If so, how?
By the rules you established, who knows.
Why do you say that? Wouldn't denaturing the proteins cause a change in
skin texture? I assume [but DON'T *know*] that the skin would soften
and liquify [given that -- under my rule -- the proteins can't
coagulate].
I answered the melanin question because it is specific. One could
study this in the lab... heat melanin under conditions as desired and
see what happens.
I've seen burn wound look 'scary' white. Sometimes it looks like white
foam. Once, I was burnt by a hot plate. The wound did look white and
foamy for a while. Why does this happen? [NOTE: this is NOT under my
rules!!!]
Skin is part of a complex biological system,
True.
and your groundrules
essentially say to ignore everything we know.
How so? It is possible in injure only one organ system w/out injuring
other systems.
But that's not what you're proposing. An "organ system" is a collection
of tissues. You are proposing damage to a specific *tissue* in an organ
system, not to the organ system.
Okay. Sorry I didn't use the correct terms.
If you scratch your arm, you will see two things happen. The area
around the scratch will first turn whitish, and then it will turn red
and inflamed. Both of these are stages in a highly complex immune
response involving the release of histamines in the area of the wound.
Neither of these changes is particular to the damaged tissue itself,
but illustrates the complexity of the *organ system* that is the skin.
The red is definitely due to the immune response. It is part of the
inflammatory reaction.
Is the 'whiteness' due to the immune response? I doubt it but I could
be wrong. As I said, my burn injury [from touching a hot plate] looked
white. I am not sure why the injured skin looked white. My thinking is
that the heat damaged the dermal pigments in that area. Once again, I
could be wrong.
In answer to your question about what would happen to your burnt
tissues in a week, it would turn black and begin to smell very bad as
bacterial decomposition sets in.
I am aware of this. However, in my rules, infection or microbial
decomposition canNOT occur. So if there was no bacterial [or any
microbial] decay, how would the burn look like?
Under my -- too good to be true in today's technology -- rules,
inflammatory reactions also canNOT occur. So how would the burn look
like?
See "gangrene" and "frostbite" for
what happens to dead tissue as a function of time.
Already know about this. However in my rules, this would not occur. The
injured tissue would either remain a "fresh" wound for life OR it would
spring back to a normal and un-injured state as soon as direct contact
with the open flame is stopped.
PD
Of course, burning the skin would effect the rest of the
body. The nerve endings would be stimulated they would carry info to
the brain. The subject would then feel the pain, obviously. So yes,
affecting the skin can INDIRECTLY affect other organs [like the brain
in the case of tactile perception]. I never said that it wouldn't. I
DID say that it won't *injure* other body systems.
What is the point? Sometimes people actually have a purpose for the
question, then contrive a question that per se makes little sense, and
does not lead to what is wanted anyway.
Well, I am interested in the hypothetical. Its like Sci-Fi sometimes. I
know it sounds crazy I am interested in wierd things.
.
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| User: "Manky Badger" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
01 Jan 2006 02:32:54 PM |
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"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1136143280.750000.71290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
<"Burn" Topic Continued from Last Year!>
I hope you all had a happy winter break. For me, work starts on January
3rd on Tuesday.
I hope my persistence on this question about thermal burns is not
annoying anyone.
Far from it.
I stick with "Green".
If you're going to come up with such a totally fabricated scenario in which
you are making up your own rules, you can probably justify any colour of the
rainbow.
.
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
02 Jan 2006 07:29:35 PM |
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Cold burns appear white, too, as when your finger lingers too long on the
plumbing carrying liquid nitrogen. I don't know the reason, but I would
guess that fluids build up underneath the outer layer of skin and lift it
away from the living layer that contains the blood vessels and so on.
With heat burns, though, I've gotten definite searing, but from a brief
enough exposure that damage to the living skin was minor.
--
"Will we be suturing the *****?"
.
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
02 Jan 2006 11:39:01 PM |
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But my burn was from contact with a hot plate for only a couple of
seconds. It must have been a first-degree burn. But why was it white?
There was *no* blistering or any build up of fluids.
.
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| User: "LEFTY" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
02 Jan 2006 11:53:29 PM |
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Well, you baked the water out of some collagen.
If you burn yourself good enough, you'll hit blood vessels and then it
looks like raw hamburger.
All you did was to bake the water out of collagen. It loses it's
translucent properties, and starts to look more like high-density
poluethylene - and it aint really all that different (generally
speaking) - collagen is just a very amazing living plastic.
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
03 Jan 2006 09:08:03 PM |
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LEFTY wrote:
Well, you baked the water out of some collagen.
If you burn yourself good enough, you'll hit blood vessels and then it
looks like raw hamburger.
All you did was to bake the water out of collagen. It loses it's
translucent properties, and starts to look more like high-density
poluethylene - and it aint really all that different (generally
speaking) - collagen is just a very amazing living plastic.
What do you mean by "bake the water out of"?
There was no dehydration at all.
The temperature of the plate wasn't high enough to dehydrate the skin
in the region it touched.
AFAIK, the water content in the skin of the burn region was no
different from the skin on the rest of my body.
So back to my question: Why did the burn look white?
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
01 Jan 2006 03:09:20 PM |
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Why are you obsessing with this: Do an experiment, dude/ette!
Fry an egg!... Ever heard of egg-white? ...observe, conclude, eat!
Fry a fresh, transparent fish- or shrimp piece. ...observe, conclude, eat.
First the transparent proteins denaturate/coagulate and turn white.
Then keep frying and its glyco/sugar type components caramelize
and turn brown, and upon further frying they "char" into black stuff,
wherein an early stage of it (under certain conditions) makes the
fabeled "Dulce-de-Leche" -- for the palate -- ahhhh... mmmhh...
mmmh... ahhh... generated by the Maillard-Strecker reaction as in
the 97,100 google hits for "Maillard reaction" with the executive recipe
in... http://www.milk.com/recipes/dessert/dulce-de-leche.html
which creates this delectable dessert that contains... (so the enviro-shits
will warn you -- to spoil your fun and joy)... these mutagenic Furanoses,
Pyrazines and Aldehydes and Acrylamide... ahahaha.... but be macho
make yourself a batch of "Dulce-de-Leche" and test whether you have
succumbed to the sick, paranoid and fucked up propaganda of the
enviro turds and whether these green shits have been able to even
ruin your desserts..........ahahahahaha.....AHAHAHA.....
Enjoy chemistry...... but ***** enviros!
ahahahaha.......ahahahanson
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1136143280.750000.71290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
<"Burn" Topic Continued from Last Year!>
Is the 'whiteness' due to the immune response? I doubt it but I could
be wrong. As I said, my burn injury [from touching a hot plate] looked
white. I am not sure why the injured skin looked white. My thinking is
that the heat damaged the dermal pigments in that area. Once again, I
could be wrong.
Under my -- too good to be true in today's technology -- rules,
inflammatory reactions also canNOT occur.
So how would the burn look like?
.
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
01 Jan 2006 02:44:10 PM |
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ahahahaha.... Why are you obsessing with this? Turn it into fun!:
Do an experiment and then obsess enjoying it, getting your answers
first hand:
Fry an egg!... Ever heard of egg-white? ...observe, conclude, eat!
Fry a fresh, transparent fish- or shrimp piece. ...observe, conclude, eat.
First the transparent proteins denaturate/coagulate and turn white.
Then keep frying and its glyco/sugar type components caramelize
and turn brown, and upon further frying they "char" into black stuff,
wherein an early stage of it (under certain conditions) makes the
fabeled "Dulce-de-Leche" -- for the palate -- ahhhh... mmmhh...
mmmh... ahhh... generated by the Maillard-Strecker reaction as in
the 97,100 google hits for "Maillard reaction" with the executive recipe
in http://www.milk.com/recipes/dessert/dulce-de-leche.html which
creates this delectable dessert that contains... (so the enviro-shits
will warn you -- to spoil your fun and joy)... these mutagenic Furanoses,
Pyrazines and Aldehydes and Acrylamide... ahahaha.... but be macho
make yourself a batch of "Dulce-de-Leche" and test whether you have
succumbed to the sick, paranoid and fucked up propaganda of the
enviro turds and whether these green shits have been able to even
ruin your desserts..........ahahahahaha.....AHAHAHA.....
Enjoy chemistry...... but ***** enviros!
ahahahaha.......ahahahanson
"Radium" <glucegen1@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1136143280.750000.71290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
<"Burn" Topic Continued from Last Year!>
Is the 'whiteness' due to the immune response? I doubt it but I could
be wrong. As I said, my burn injury [from touching a hot plate] looked
white. I am not sure why the injured skin looked white. My thinking is
that the heat damaged the dermal pigments in that area. Once again, I
could be wrong.
Under my -- too good to be true in today's technology -- rules,
inflammatory reactions also canNOT occur.
So how would the burn look like?
.
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| User: "Charles" |
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| Title: Re: Thermal Burn Injury -- Why Does it Appear *White*? |
02 Jan 2006 11:59:19 PM |
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the white burns I have gotten were quite superficial, just the outer
layer of dead skin. Usually from something very hot and of short
duration. Not deep enough to affect any melanin layers.
.
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