| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"blackboab" |
| Date: |
09 May 2007 04:09:17 AM |
| Object: |
Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
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| User: "Oat Mikey" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 01:18:23 PM |
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"blackboab" <blackboab@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1178701756.992063.222310@h2g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
95% of stuff on TV is *****, they do not bother to take the time to do
real research, they put up rumor as fact, etc.
Invest in the space elevator now!
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| User: "Ian Parker" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 11:17:36 AM |
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On 9 May, 10:09, blackboab <blackb...@gmail.com> wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
This depends on whether you believe in String Theory or not. If you do
gravity follows an inverse 8th power low at short distances. This
means that it might be possible to produce a BH in an accelerator.
Do they continue to swallow? Emphatically not! A BH can be viewed as
simply another sub atomic particle. One thing that interests me about
the ST presentation of BH is that a (large) BH has spin and an axis.
Do sub atomic BHs have complex Tensor spins? and if so can these be
related to their properties as particles? This is wild stuff I know.
- Ian Parker
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 11:24:25 AM |
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Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 May, 10:09, blackboab <blackb...@gmail.com> wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
This depends on whether you believe in String Theory or not. If you do
gravity follows an inverse 8th power low at short distances. This
means that it might be possible to produce a BH in an accelerator.
A testable prediction of string theory?
Do they continue to swallow? Emphatically not! A BH can be viewed as
simply another sub atomic particle. One thing that interests me about
the ST presentation of BH is that a (large) BH has spin and an axis.
Do sub atomic BHs have complex Tensor spins? and if so can these be
related to their properties as particles? This is wild stuff I know.
- Ian Parker
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| User: "Ian Parker" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
16 May 2007 05:55:43 AM |
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On 9 May, 17:24, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
This depends on whether you believe in String Theory or not. If you do
gravity follows an inverse 8th power low at short distances. This
means that it might be possible to produce a BH in an accelerator.
A testable prediction of string theory?
Yes indeed. ST depends on having a large number of dimensions. If
accelerators cannot produce this ST is dead. I suppose they will
simply shift the higher dimensions to higher and higher energy.
- Ian Parker
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
16 May 2007 08:34:18 AM |
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Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 May, 17:24, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
This depends on whether you believe in String Theory or not. If you do
gravity follows an inverse 8th power low at short distances. This
means that it might be possible to produce a BH in an accelerator.
A testable prediction of string theory?
Yes indeed. ST depends on having a large number of dimensions. If
accelerators cannot produce this ST is dead. I suppose they will
simply shift the higher dimensions to higher and higher energy.
- Ian Parker
Cosmic ray energies are five orders of magnitude greater than what
is achieved with accelerators.
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| User: "Ian Parker" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
16 May 2007 10:18:35 AM |
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On 16 May, 14:34, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 May, 17:24, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
This depends on whether you believe in String Theory or not. If you do
gravity follows an inverse 8th power low at short distances. This
means that it might be possible to produce a BH in an accelerator.
A testable prediction of string theory?
Yes indeed. ST depends on having a large number of dimensions. If
accelerators cannot produce this ST is dead. I suppose they will
simply shift the higher dimensions to higher and higher energy.
- Ian Parker
Cosmic ray energies are five orders of magnitude greater than what
is achieved with accelerators.
True, but you need a large current to be able to see effects such as
10 dimensions. Interesting events can be quite rare. Cosmic rays do
have this relevance though. Existenial risk. An accelerator cannot be
dangerous (except of course for local accidents) if cosmic ray
energies are higher.
- Ian Parker
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
16 May 2007 10:36:20 AM |
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Ian Parker wrote:
On 16 May, 14:34, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Cosmic ray energies are five orders of magnitude greater than what
is achieved with accelerators.
True, but you need a large current to be able to see effects such as
10 dimensions. Interesting events can be quite rare. Cosmic rays do
have this relevance though. Existenial risk. An accelerator cannot be
dangerous (except of course for local accidents) if cosmic ray
energies are higher.
- Ian Parker
Any idea how those extra dimensions would show up?
Scientists Predict How to Detect a Fourth Dimension of Space
http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/05/braneworld.html
doesn't seem very promising to me.
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| User: "Ian Parker" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
16 May 2007 11:32:41 AM |
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On 16 May, 16:36, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Any idea how those extra dimensions would show up?
Scientists Predict How to Detect a Fourth Dimension of Space
http://www.dukenews.duke.edu/2006/05/braneworld.html
doesn't seem very promising to me.
I think we are confusing two thing. The brane world is cosmological in
size. The dimensions of string theory are microscopic. They show up in
terms of laws of attraction and quantum electrdynamics.
I mentioned that Gravity obeyed an inverse 8th power law. Of course it
is inverse square macroscopically. So the way dimensions will show up
(if indeed they are there) is:-
1) Via laws of force,
2) Spin axes - this was my fist query about microscopic black holes.
- Ian Parker
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| User: "boson boss" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 04:14:26 PM |
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On May 9, 6:24 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
Ian Parker wrote:
On 9 May, 10:09, blackboab <blackb...@gmail.com> wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
This depends on whether you believe in String Theory or not. If you do
gravity follows an inverse 8th power low at short distances. This
means that it might be possible to produce a BH in an accelerator.
A testable prediction of string theory?
Do they continue to swallow? Emphatically not! A BH can be viewed as
simply another sub atomic particle. One thing that interests me about
the ST presentation of BH is that a (large) BH has spin and an axis.
Do sub atomic BHs have complex Tensor spins? and if so can these be
related to their properties as particles? This is wild stuff I know.
- Ian Parker
Ultimately the next Big Collision will create a Blow As Wide as moon
becoming a cabbage.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
11 May 2007 10:00:39 PM |
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On May 9, 2:09 am, blackboab <blackb...@gmail.com> wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
Here's a link for you. If they exist, any black holes with a mass
of less than
10^11 grams would have evaporated by now.- A. McIntire
http://casa.colorado.edu/~ajsh/hawk.html
"Evaporation of a mini black hole
Black holes get the energy to radiate Hawking radiation from their
rest mass energy. So if a black hole is not accreting mass from
outside, it will lose mass by Hawking radiation, and will eventually
evaporate. For astronomical black holes, the evaporation time is
prodigiously long - about 10^61 times the age of the Universe for a 30
solar mass black hole. However, the evaporation time is shorter for
smaller black holes (evaporation time t is proportional to M^3), and
black holes with masses less than about 10^11 kg (the mass of a small
mountain) can evaporate in less than the age of the Universe. The
Hawking temperature of such mini black holes is high: a 10^11 kg black
hole has a temperature of about 10^12 Kelvin, equivalent to the rest
mass energy of a proton. The gravitational pull of such a mini black
hole would be about 1 g at a distance of 1 meter. "
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
13 May 2007 01:47:27 AM |
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On May 9, 2:09 am, blackboab <blackb...@gmail.com> wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
Hawkings what?
There are no relativistic black holes, onely classic grey bodies/
holes.
http://google.com/groups?q=Autymn+doubt+deathblows
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| User: "aasigma" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 09:19:38 AM |
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On May 9, 2:09 pm, blackboab <blackb...@gmail.com> wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
Hawkings is right in saying that tiny black holes exist around
us.Probably they do not follow the law of addition to form a large
blackhole to swallow objects.The forces between them is balanced by
forces of nature.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 10:24:03 AM |
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blackboab wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
Google the lifetime of a small back hole vs. mass.
Angular momentum is conserved. A microscopic black hole cannot
swallow anything during its lifetime - stuff would orbit like crazy
but not make it down the drain. If the black hole did manage to get
born without spin and something did manage to zoom in on a perfect
trajectory thereby possible, the resulting blast
[(mass)(height)(gravitational acceleration) = energy)] would push
anything else away.
UNKNWON HAZARDS! = *****
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 11:02:37 AM |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message =
news:4641E793.D9D12B8D@hate.spam.net...
[snip wet fart]
UNKNWON HAZARDS! =3D *****
=20
--=20
Uncle Al=20
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/=20
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)=20
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--->>>> UNKNWON HAZARDS! =3D ***** <<<<<<---
Learn to spell, illiterate fuckwit.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
11 May 2007 11:46:58 PM |
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blackboab wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
For a tiny black hole to exist for a second, it would have to
have a mass of about 2.3 x 10^5 kg. So the would have to be a
lot more massive to hang around.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
12 May 2007 12:00:58 AM |
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On May 11, 9:46 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
blackboab wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
For a tiny black hole to exist for a second, it would have to
have a mass of about 2.3 x 10^5 kg. So the would have to be a
lot more massive to hang around.
How about pairs of high-spin Kerr-Newmann black holes co-orbiting
closely enough that their ergospheres merge? Would they experience
enough time dilation to extend their lives to any noticeable degree?
Mark L. Fergerson
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
12 May 2007 12:07:20 AM |
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wrote:
On May 11, 9:46 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
For a tiny black hole to exist for a second, it would have to
have a mass of about 2.3 x 10^5 kg. So the would have to be a
lot more massive to hang around.
How about pairs of high-spin Kerr-Newmann black holes co-orbiting
closely enough that their ergospheres merge? Would they experience
enough time dilation to extend their lives to any noticeable degree?
Mark L. Fergerson
Time dilation with respect to what observer?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
12 May 2007 02:50:24 AM |
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On May 11, 10:07 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
n...@bid.nes wrote:
On May 11, 9:46 pm, Sam Wormley <sworml...@mchsi.com> wrote:
For a tiny black hole to exist for a second, it would have to
have a mass of about 2.3 x 10^5 kg. So the would have to be a
lot more massive to hang around.
How about pairs of high-spin Kerr-Newmann black holes co-orbiting
closely enough that their ergospheres merge? Would they experience
enough time dilation to extend their lives to any noticeable degree?
Time dilation with respect to what observer?
Is angular momentum (and hence their angular velocity) not
"absolute"?
Remember, this is orbital angular momentum, not spin angular
momentum.
FTM, would their orbital angular momentum be quantized?
(OK, not serious about that last one.)
Mark L. Fergerson
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| User: "G=EMC^2 Glazier" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
12 May 2007 07:36:13 AM |
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Sam To find tiny black holes you have to go into the micro realm of the
string theory. Schwarz,and Scherk did a well received paper on their
force Bert
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
12 May 2007 12:53:07 PM |
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G=EMC^2 Glazier wrote:
Sam To find tiny black holes you have to go into the micro realm of the
string theory. Schwarz,and Scherk did a well received paper on their
force Bert
Really?
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| User: "Ben Rudiak-Gould" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
09 May 2007 11:04:05 AM |
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blackboab wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
He/she was probably talking about primordial black holes. None have ever
been detected, but there are plausible theoretical reasons to think that
they might exist, and if they do, they wouldn't necessarily be very easy to
find.
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
I think these things are about the size of a proton (but vastly more
massive). I don't know whether they're dangerous.
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
No, if they exist at all, they're all left over from the early universe.
-- Ben
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| User: "malibu" |
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| Title: Re: Tiny Black Holes: do they exist ? |
10 May 2007 08:00:37 AM |
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On May 9, 10:04 am, Ben Rudiak-Gould <br276delet...@cam.ac.uk> wrote:
blackboab wrote:
I watched a TV documentary on Hawkings and one physicist suggested
that tiny black holes could be all around us .
He/she was probably talking about primordial black holes. None have ever
been detected, but there are plausible theoretical reasons to think that
they might exist, and if they do, they wouldn't necessarily be very easy to
find.
If they are would they be large enough to swallow objects ?
I think these things are about the size of a proton (but vastly more
massive). I don't know whether they're dangerous.
Do they pop in and out of existence ?
No, if they exist at all, they're all left over from the early universe.
-- Ben
They certainly don't pop in and out.
Tiny black holes *are* protons.
You can watch them forever and they'll never 'pop out'.
What they probably *will* do, however, is blatantly
steal an electron from somewhere.
Large black holes at galaxies' centers are also protons. They are
standing waves in space whose rapid rotation causes all the
virtual pairs within their
'event horizon' to split into electrons and
protons at the next level down- that which forms our matter-
and ejects these excited particles out the jets
at the galaxy's center.
As the galactic disc sweeps around, these excited
clouds are swept up and recombine into stars,
which eventually radiate away all their acquired spin
as photons and all the electrons and protons recombine
to form a neutron star which eventually falls back into the
'black hole'. Where it is promptly ripped apart into
excited electrons and protons and shot out again
by the galactic jets and the cycle continues.
A galaxy's stars are thus continuously renewed.
John
Galaxy Model for the Atom
http://users.accesscomm.ca/john
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