| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Edward Green" |
| Date: |
07 Jan 2007 07:45:03 AM |
| Object: |
transforming a traceless matrix |
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
I'm guessing a traceless matrix can always be transformed to a
coordinate system where it is purely off-diagonal. My motivation is
decomposing a deformation or stress system to a pure isotropic dilation
or hydrostatic stress, plus something else. It would be nice if the
"something else" turned out to be a linear combination of pure shear
stresses or strains in an appropriate coordinate system, but I can't
quite see it.
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| User: "Robert Israel" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
07 Jan 2007 11:36:32 PM |
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In article <1168177503.819256.189270@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Edward Green <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
I'm guessing a traceless matrix can always be transformed to a
coordinate system where it is purely off-diagonal. My motivation is
decomposing a deformation or stress system to a pure isotropic dilation
or hydrostatic stress, plus something else. It would be nice if the
"something else" turned out to be a linear combination of pure shear
stresses or strains in an appropriate coordinate system, but I can't
quite see it.
I assume you're talking about similarity transformations
A -> P A P^(-1) where P is an invertible matrix, and we're working
with n x n matrices over the real field.
The answer is yes.
Consider any A with trace(A) = 0. First look at the (1,1) entry.
If it is not 0, there is another diagonal entry, say the (i,i)
entry, with the opposite sign. Let S be the matrix with entries
S_{1,1} = S_{i,i} = cos(t), S_{i,1} = sin(t), S_{1,i} = -sin(t),
all other entries the same as the identity matrix. Then
for t = 0, S A S^(-1) = A, while for t = Pi/2, S A S^(-1)
interchanges the (1,1) and (i,i) entries. Therefore there is
some t for which (S A S^(-1))_{1,1} = 0.
Now suppose we have
[ W X ]
S A S^(-1) = [ Y Z ]
in block-matrix form, where all diagonal elements of W are 0,
and thus trace(Z) = 0.
For any (n-k) x (n-k) invertible matrix R, let
[ I 0 ] [ I 0 ]
T = [ 0 R ], so T^(-1) = [ 0 R^(-1) ]
[ W XR^(-1) ]
and note that T S A (T S)^(-1) = [ RY RZR^(-1) ]
As shown above, we can choose R so RZR^(-1) has its top left
entry 0, so T S A (T S)^(-1) has an additional 0 on its
diagonal. Repeating this at most n-1 times, we get a matrix
similar to A with all 0's on the diagonal.
Robert Israel
Department of Mathematics http://www.math.ubc.ca/~israel
University of British Columbia Vancouver, BC, Canada
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
08 Jan 2007 12:38:47 AM |
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In article <ensl90$ead$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, (Robert Israel) writes:
In article <1168177503.819256.189270@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Edward Green <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
I'm guessing a traceless matrix can always be transformed to a
coordinate system where it is purely off-diagonal. My motivation is
decomposing a deformation or stress system to a pure isotropic dilation
or hydrostatic stress, plus something else. It would be nice if the
"something else" turned out to be a linear combination of pure shear
stresses or strains in an appropriate coordinate system, but I can't
quite see it.
I assume you're talking about similarity transformations
A -> P A P^(-1) where P is an invertible matrix, and we're working
with n x n matrices over the real field.
The answer is yes.
Consider any A with trace(A) = 0. First look at the (1,1) entry.
If it is not 0, there is another diagonal entry, say the (i,i)
entry, with the opposite sign. Let S be the matrix with entries
S_{1,1} = S_{i,i} = cos(t), S_{i,1} = sin(t), S_{1,i} = -sin(t),
all other entries the same as the identity matrix. Then
for t = 0, S A S^(-1) = A, while for t = Pi/2, S A S^(-1)
interchanges the (1,1) and (i,i) entries. Therefore there is
some t for which (S A S^(-1))_{1,1} = 0.
Now suppose we have
[ W X ]
S A S^(-1) = [ Y Z ]
in block-matrix form, where all diagonal elements of W are 0,
and thus trace(Z) = 0.
For any (n-k) x (n-k) invertible matrix R, let
[ I 0 ] [ I 0 ]
T = [ 0 R ], so T^(-1) = [ 0 R^(-1) ]
[ W XR^(-1) ]
and note that T S A (T S)^(-1) = [ RY RZR^(-1) ]
As shown above, we can choose R so RZR^(-1) has its top left
entry 0, so T S A (T S)^(-1) has an additional 0 on its
diagonal. Repeating this at most n-1 times, we get a matrix
similar to A with all 0's on the diagonal.
Voila! Thanks. I was just looking into it but got distracted. Well,
Ed, that should be all you need.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Hero" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
08 Jan 2007 04:59:37 AM |
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schrieb:
In article <ensl90$ead$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, (Robert Israel) writes:
In article <1168177503.819256.189270@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Edward Green <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
.....
Every square matrix can be decomposed into a symmetric one,
where a ij = a ji
and a skew one, where
b ij = - b ji.
This might shed some light, i hope.
With friendly greetings
Hero
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
08 Jan 2007 10:56:10 AM |
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Hero wrote:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu schrieb:
In article <ensl90$ead$1@nntp.itservices.ubc.ca>, (Robert Israel) writes:
In article <1168177503.819256.189270@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Edward Green <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
....
Every square matrix can be decomposed into a symmetric one,
where a ij = a ji
and a skew one, where
b ij = - b ji.
This might shed some light, i hope.
I ripped out my envelope, prepared to write, but...
The matrices I was considering (I should have added), representing
physical stress or strain, are already symmetric. So I don't think we
gain anything this way, unfortunately.
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| User: "kunzmilan" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
15 Jan 2007 06:39:13 AM |
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The matrices I was considering (I should have added), representing
physical stress or strain, are already symmetric. So I don't think we
gain anything this way, unfortunately.
Try to add (subtract) to the diagonals of your matrices the row
(column) sum of their elements.
kunzmilan
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
08 Jan 2007 10:47:49 AM |
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Robert Israel wrote:
In article <1168177503.819256.189270@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
Edward Green <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
I'm guessing a traceless matrix can always be transformed to a
coordinate system where it is purely off-diagonal. My motivation is
decomposing a deformation or stress system to a pure isotropic dilation
or hydrostatic stress, plus something else. It would be nice if the
"something else" turned out to be a linear combination of pure shear
stresses or strains in an appropriate coordinate system, but I can't
quite see it.
I assume you're talking about similarity transformations
A -> P A P^(-1) where P is an invertible matrix, and we're working
with n x n matrices over the real field.
Yes. Actually, as Timo Nieminen guessed, I was talking about P
orthogonal.
The answer is yes.
Consider any A with trace(A) = 0. First look at the (1,1) entry.
If it is not 0, there is another diagonal entry, say the (i,i)
entry, with the opposite sign. Let S be the matrix with entries
S_{1,1} = S_{i,i} = cos(t), S_{i,1} = sin(t), S_{1,i} = -sin(t),
all other entries the same as the identity matrix. Then
for t = 0, S A S^(-1) = A, while for t = Pi/2, S A S^(-1)
interchanges the (1,1) and (i,i) entries. Therefore there is
some t for which (S A S^(-1))_{1,1} = 0.
Now suppose we have
[ W X ]
S A S^(-1) = [ Y Z ]
in block-matrix form, where all diagonal elements of W are 0,
and thus trace(Z) = 0.
For any (n-k) x (n-k) invertible matrix R, let
[ I 0 ] [ I 0 ]
T = [ 0 R ], so T^(-1) = [ 0 R^(-1) ]
[ W XR^(-1) ]
and note that T S A (T S)^(-1) = [ RY RZR^(-1) ]
As shown above, we can choose R so RZR^(-1) has its top left
entry 0, so T S A (T S)^(-1) has an additional 0 on its
diagonal. Repeating this at most n-1 times, we get a matrix
similar to A with all 0's on the diagonal.
I was about to ask, what happens when we have possibly one non-zero
diagonal element left? But this can't happen, as the trace never
changes, and this would mean the result had non-zero trace. So at most
you have two non-zero diagonal elements left, and the last
transformation zeroes both.
Thank you for the constructive proof! It's more than I expected.
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| User: "Timo A. Nieminen" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
07 Jan 2007 09:53:58 PM |
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On Sun, 7 Jan 2007, Edward Green wrote:
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
I'm guessing a traceless matrix can always be transformed to a
coordinate system where it is purely off-diagonal. My motivation is
decomposing a deformation or stress system to a pure isotropic dilation
or hydrostatic stress, plus something else. It would be nice if the
"something else" turned out to be a linear combination of pure shear
stresses or strains in an appropriate coordinate system, but I can't
quite see it.
Trace(A) is a scalar, in the sense of being invariant under rotations. So,
given a rotation R, trace(R A inv(R)) = trace(A). For a 3x3 matrix A, R
has 3 parameters. If we have A' = R A inv(A), demanding that A'11 = A'22
= A'33 = 0 would seem to add 3 constraints, implying a unique proper
rotation give off-diagonal A'. There would also be a matching improper
rotation. Well, that's some first thoughts; perhaps they are use to you.
Presumably there is some geometric meaning if A is a tensor. This question
is not unrelated to the "Jackson question" thread on sci.physics, circa
mid-December.
--
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: transforming a traceless matrix |
07 Jan 2007 10:49:06 PM |
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Timo A. Nieminen wrote:
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007, Edward Green wrote:
What can be said transformations of a traceless matrix?
I'm guessing a traceless matrix can always be transformed to a
coordinate system where it is purely off-diagonal. My motivation is
decomposing a deformation or stress system to a pure isotropic dilation
or hydrostatic stress, plus something else. It would be nice if the
"something else" turned out to be a linear combination of pure shear
stresses or strains in an appropriate coordinate system, but I can't
quite see it.
Trace(A) is a scalar, in the sense of being invariant under rotations. So,
given a rotation R, trace(R A inv(R)) = trace(A). For a 3x3 matrix A, R
has 3 parameters. If we have A' = R A inv(A), demanding that A'11 = A'22
= A'33 = 0 would seem to add 3 constraints, implying a unique proper
rotation give off-diagonal A'. There would also be a matching improper
rotation. Well, that's some first thoughts; perhaps they are use to you.
Thank you. That sounds about right -- though the constraints being
homogeneous bothers me for some reason.
So, in three dimensions at least, a stress tensor (for example) can
either be transformed by rotation into three principal normal stresses,
or else a hydrostatic pressure plus three "principal shears"? Hmm...
if that's so, I think I might have heard of it by now.
Presumably there is some geometric meaning if A is a tensor. This question
is not unrelated to the "Jackson question" thread on sci.physics, circa
mid-December.
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