| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
01 Mar 2006 10:01:35 AM |
| Object: |
trombone and physics |
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 10:10:17 AM |
|
|
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sam Wormley" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 12:08:37 PM |
|
|
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
.
|
|
|
| User: "SCW" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 04:17:14 PM |
|
|
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
SCW
.
|
|
|
| User: "Spaceman" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 04:25:42 PM |
|
|
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
.
|
|
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| User: "SCW" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 09:49:14 AM |
|
|
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
Having said that, your web does include the line:
"Physics that include zeros doing things or having energy are bologna.
such as Zero Point Energy [...]"
Do you know what zero point energy is?
SCW
.
|
|
|
| User: "Spaceman" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 10:01:12 AM |
|
|
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141314554.551658.22400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused
as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than
a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it
left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the
air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
Having said that, your web does include the line:
"Physics that include zeros doing things or having energy are bologna.
such as Zero Point Energy [...]"
Do you know what zero point energy is?
Yes, It is a bogus theory that belongs in the trash bin
along with photons that have 0 mass but have momentum
Saying there is a limit to "small" and calling such small a 0
instead of what it actually is shows a big lack of "physics" in physics.
It is like the same as calling germs not there because we could
not detect them yet.
It is a repetition of history only and such repetition is a joke.
:)
.
|
|
|
| User: "SCW" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 10:20:21 AM |
|
|
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141314554.551658.22400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused
as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than
a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it
left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the
air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
Having said that, your web does include the line:
"Physics that include zeros doing things or having energy are bologna.
such as Zero Point Energy [...]"
Do you know what zero point energy is?
Yes, It is a bogus theory that belongs in the trash bin
along with photons that have 0 mass but have momentum
Saying there is a limit to "small" and calling such small a 0
instead of what it actually is shows a big lack of "physics" in physics.
It is like the same as calling germs not there because we could
not detect them yet.
It is a repetition of history only and such repetition is a joke.
:)
No, it's lowest energy point in s system. It doesn't mean it has zero
energy - which in a bizarre sort of way, seems to be what you are
saying.
See http://www.casimir.rl.ac.uk/zero_point_energy.htm
& http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/questions/vacuum_energy.html
SCW
.
|
|
|
| User: "Spaceman" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 10:29:56 AM |
|
|
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141316421.394138.36510@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141314554.551658.22400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm
confused
as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play
than
a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it
left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in
the
air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
Having said that, your web does include the line:
"Physics that include zeros doing things or having energy are bologna.
such as Zero Point Energy [...]"
Do you know what zero point energy is?
Yes, It is a bogus theory that belongs in the trash bin
along with photons that have 0 mass but have momentum
Saying there is a limit to "small" and calling such small a 0
instead of what it actually is shows a big lack of "physics" in physics.
It is like the same as calling germs not there because we could
not detect them yet.
It is a repetition of history only and such repetition is a joke.
:)
No, it's lowest energy point in s system. It doesn't mean it has zero
energy - which in a bizarre sort of way, seems to be what you are
saying.
Yes, basically.
:)
See http://www.casimir.rl.ac.uk/zero_point_energy.htm
& http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/questions/vacuum_energy.html
An electron is simply a gathering of "even smaller" stuff.
As we increase technology, we may even be able to find
even smaller parts of this stuff.
Just as with germs long ago, just because we can not
measure something there, does not mean there is nothing there (zero)
and when we see things occur from this nothing there (zero) is it not
proof there is something there?
:)
As I stated zero point energy is bologna.
It is a bad name and the term zero is like removing
the physics of what is actually there.
Might have well called germs long ago,
zero point sickness.
:)
.
|
|
|
| User: "SCW" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 10:45:41 AM |
|
|
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141316421.394138.36510@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141314554.551658.22400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm
confused
as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play
than
a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it
left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in
the
air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
Having said that, your web does include the line:
"Physics that include zeros doing things or having energy are bologna.
such as Zero Point Energy [...]"
Do you know what zero point energy is?
Yes, It is a bogus theory that belongs in the trash bin
along with photons that have 0 mass but have momentum
Saying there is a limit to "small" and calling such small a 0
instead of what it actually is shows a big lack of "physics" in physics.
It is like the same as calling germs not there because we could
not detect them yet.
It is a repetition of history only and such repetition is a joke.
:)
No, it's lowest energy point in s system. It doesn't mean it has zero
energy - which in a bizarre sort of way, seems to be what you are
saying.
Yes, basically.
:)
See http://www.casimir.rl.ac.uk/zero_point_energy.htm
& http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/questions/vacuum_energy.html
An electron is simply a gathering of "even smaller" stuff.
As we increase technology, we may even be able to find
even smaller parts of this stuff.
Just as with germs long ago, just because we can not
measure something there, does not mean there is nothing there (zero)
and when we see things occur from this nothing there (zero) is it not
proof there is something there?
:)
Actually I wondered, coming from a colloid background, how the Casimir
effect compares to Ostwald Ripening or the Gibbs-Thomson effect.
As I stated zero point energy is bologna.
It is a bad name and the term zero is like removing
the physics of what is actually there.
Might have well called germs long ago,
zero point sickness.
:)
Well, it's just a name - what would you call it considering that all
matter has been removed to form a vaccum? Vacuum Energy?
SCW
.
|
|
|
| User: "Spaceman" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 12:21:33 PM |
|
|
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141317941.286582.92520@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141316421.394138.36510@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141314554.551658.22400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm
confused
as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to
play
than
a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before
it
left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves
in
the
air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is
what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same
speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the
little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
Having said that, your web does include the line:
"Physics that include zeros doing things or having energy are
bologna.
such as Zero Point Energy [...]"
Do you know what zero point energy is?
Yes, It is a bogus theory that belongs in the trash bin
along with photons that have 0 mass but have momentum
Saying there is a limit to "small" and calling such small a 0
instead of what it actually is shows a big lack of "physics" in
physics.
It is like the same as calling germs not there because we could
not detect them yet.
It is a repetition of history only and such repetition is a joke.
:)
No, it's lowest energy point in s system. It doesn't mean it has zero
energy - which in a bizarre sort of way, seems to be what you are
saying.
Yes, basically.
:)
See http://www.casimir.rl.ac.uk/zero_point_energy.htm
& http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/questions/vacuum_energy.html
An electron is simply a gathering of "even smaller" stuff.
As we increase technology, we may even be able to find
even smaller parts of this stuff.
Just as with germs long ago, just because we can not
measure something there, does not mean there is nothing there (zero)
and when we see things occur from this nothing there (zero) is it not
proof there is something there?
:)
Actually I wondered, coming from a colloid background, how the Casimir
effect compares to Ostwald Ripening or the Gibbs-Thomson effect.
Again it comes down to the "smaller than we can see (detect)" stuff.
If we can only detect an electron when is it doing something,
how can we detect an electron that is "not doing anything" until
it does something and of course, the same goes for the "even smaller" stuff.
As I stated zero point energy is bologna.
It is a bad name and the term zero is like removing
the physics of what is actually there.
Might have well called germs long ago,
zero point sickness.
:)
Well, it's just a name - what would you call it considering that all
matter has been removed to form a vaccum? Vacuum Energy?
If the energy is coming from radio waves or gamma rays or etc..
It should be called wave energy.
A vacuum can not shield itself at all.
So even vacuums must have waves passing through them
especially for such stuff like light passing through.
Wave energy makes more sense and would stop the
sometimes thoughts of a zero point energy impossiblity.
after all if E = 0 truly, you have no energy at all and
the point itself would not even be a mass nor an energy.
:)
:)
.
|
|
|
| User: "SCW" |
|
| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
03 Mar 2006 01:33:29 AM |
|
|
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141317941.286582.92520@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141316421.394138.36510@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141314554.551658.22400@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141251434.226756.290170@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm
confused
as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to
play
than
a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before
it
left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves
in
the
air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is
what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same
speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the
little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's a little over the top?
Sam can not attack my post. so he attacks me as usual.
The website (www.crank.net) is just an anti-anti-relativist site.
:)
Having said that, your web does include the line:
"Physics that include zeros doing things or having energy are
bologna.
such as Zero Point Energy [...]"
Do you know what zero point energy is?
Yes, It is a bogus theory that belongs in the trash bin
along with photons that have 0 mass but have momentum
Saying there is a limit to "small" and calling such small a 0
instead of what it actually is shows a big lack of "physics" in
physics.
It is like the same as calling germs not there because we could
not detect them yet.
It is a repetition of history only and such repetition is a joke.
:)
No, it's lowest energy point in s system. It doesn't mean it has zero
energy - which in a bizarre sort of way, seems to be what you are
saying.
Yes, basically.
:)
See http://www.casimir.rl.ac.uk/zero_point_energy.htm
& http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/questions/vacuum_energy.html
An electron is simply a gathering of "even smaller" stuff.
As we increase technology, we may even be able to find
even smaller parts of this stuff.
Just as with germs long ago, just because we can not
measure something there, does not mean there is nothing there (zero)
and when we see things occur from this nothing there (zero) is it not
proof there is something there?
:)
Actually I wondered, coming from a colloid background, how the Casimir
effect compares to Ostwald Ripening or the Gibbs-Thomson effect.
Again it comes down to the "smaller than we can see (detect)" stuff.
If we can only detect an electron when is it doing something,
how can we detect an electron that is "not doing anything" until
it does something and of course, the same goes for the "even smaller" stuff.
It's difficult to argue with that - it doesn't answer the question
though!
As I stated zero point energy is bologna.
It is a bad name and the term zero is like removing
the physics of what is actually there.
Might have well called germs long ago,
zero point sickness.
:)
Well, it's just a name - what would you call it considering that all
matter has been removed to form a vaccum? Vacuum Energy?
If the energy is coming from radio waves or gamma rays or etc..
It should be called wave energy.
A vacuum can not shield itself at all.
So even vacuums must have waves passing through them
especially for such stuff like light passing through.
Wave energy makes more sense and would stop the
sometimes thoughts of a zero point energy impossiblity.
after all if E = 0 truly, you have no energy at all and
the point itself would not even be a mass nor an energy.
:)
Again difficult to argue with.
SCW
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
03 Mar 2006 08:32:28 AM |
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"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141371209.125604.172290@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
Actually I wondered, coming from a colloid background, how the Casimir
effect compares to Ostwald Ripening or the Gibbs-Thomson effect.
Again it comes down to the "smaller than we can see (detect)" stuff.
If we can only detect an electron when is it doing something,
how can we detect an electron that is "not doing anything" until
it does something and of course, the same goes for the "even smaller"
stuff.
It's difficult to argue with that - it doesn't answer the question
though!
Think of the smallest stuff still having a physical pressure,
(too small for us to measure as a pressure but still there)
(and it's effects being shown also)
where there is lack of the "pressure" the rest of the smaller stuff
will try and equal such out (just like air would).
Where there is too much of such pressure with no where to escape
simply because the area surrrounding it even though less pressure
has enough force to hold the higher pressure through shear volume
(area) difference.
Lets think of a cube of 10 pressure units per square inch.
and a super high density. (large mass in small space)
At the surface of the cube there is this 10 pressure
as you move away from the cube the area away from it
increases if you are 1 cube away all around it, it is like having
26 cubes surrounding the 1 cube, at this 1 cube distance
the pressure will be lower but have more area pushing
on a smaller area.
The higher pressure areas act like simple bouyancy would,
(and like gravity does also if you really think about it)
If you have something more bouyant and close enough to the
center cube it will "fall" to the center cube.
If you have something less bouyant it will not "fall" to the center
and may even be pushed to a neutral position.
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| User: "SCW" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
03 Mar 2006 10:35:53 AM |
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Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141371209.125604.172290@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
Actually I wondered, coming from a colloid background, how the Casimir
effect compares to Ostwald Ripening or the Gibbs-Thomson effect.
Again it comes down to the "smaller than we can see (detect)" stuff.
If we can only detect an electron when is it doing something,
how can we detect an electron that is "not doing anything" until
it does something and of course, the same goes for the "even smaller"
stuff.
It's difficult to argue with that - it doesn't answer the question
though!
Think of the smallest stuff still having a physical pressure,
(too small for us to measure as a pressure but still there)
(and it's effects being shown also)
where there is lack of the "pressure" the rest of the smaller stuff
will try and equal such out (just like air would).
Where there is too much of such pressure with no where to escape
simply because the area surrrounding it even though less pressure
has enough force to hold the higher pressure through shear volume
(area) difference.
Lets think of a cube of 10 pressure units per square inch.
and a super high density. (large mass in small space)
At the surface of the cube there is this 10 pressure
as you move away from the cube the area away from it
increases if you are 1 cube away all around it, it is like having
26 cubes surrounding the 1 cube, at this 1 cube distance
the pressure will be lower but have more area pushing
on a smaller area.
Sorry mate, you completely lost me there.
In the previous post you talked of detection as being a prerequisite to
the confirmation of the validity of theory (at least I think that's
what you meant). This is, of course, empirical evidence, which is the
raison d'etre for performing physical experiments.
If you're talking about pressure (such as in an ideal gas) then PV =
nRT. If you change the volume it will affect the pressure - is this
what you mean?
The higher pressure areas act like simple bouyancy would,
(and like gravity does also if you really think about it)
If you have something more bouyant and close enough to the
center cube it will "fall" to the center cube.
If you have something less bouyant it will not "fall" to the center
and may even be pushed to a neutral position.
I don't mean to be rude, but I really am struggling to understand what
you mean - sorry!
SCW
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
03 Mar 2006 11:02:49 AM |
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"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141403753.180283.212020@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141371209.125604.172290@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman wrote:
Actually I wondered, coming from a colloid background, how the
Casimir
effect compares to Ostwald Ripening or the Gibbs-Thomson effect.
Again it comes down to the "smaller than we can see (detect)" stuff.
If we can only detect an electron when is it doing something,
how can we detect an electron that is "not doing anything" until
it does something and of course, the same goes for the "even smaller"
stuff.
It's difficult to argue with that - it doesn't answer the question
though!
Think of the smallest stuff still having a physical pressure,
(too small for us to measure as a pressure but still there)
(and it's effects being shown also)
where there is lack of the "pressure" the rest of the smaller stuff
will try and equal such out (just like air would).
Where there is too much of such pressure with no where to escape
simply because the area surrrounding it even though less pressure
has enough force to hold the higher pressure through shear volume
(area) difference.
Lets think of a cube of 10 pressure units per square inch.
and a super high density. (large mass in small space)
At the surface of the cube there is this 10 pressure
as you move away from the cube the area away from it
increases if you are 1 cube away all around it, it is like having
26 cubes surrounding the 1 cube, at this 1 cube distance
the pressure will be lower but have more area pushing
on a smaller area.
Sorry mate, you completely lost me there.
In the previous post you talked of detection as being a prerequisite to
the confirmation of the validity of theory (at least I think that's
what you meant). This is, of course, empirical evidence, which is the
raison d'etre for performing physical experiments.
If you're talking about pressure (such as in an ideal gas) then PV =
nRT. If you change the volume it will affect the pressure - is this
what you mean?
I am not talking about changing the volume itself.
I am talking about the differentials between a large
mass of pressure and the pressure of the mass surrounding it.
Lets remove air,
Since we have removed air,
the only thing left is gravity.
If we have gravity without air occuring there has to be a
cause of the gravity of course.
If we remove the "smallest particle limit" that has been created
with no real physical reason...
we get pressures occuring from the tiniest stuff also.
the further you move away from a gravitational source,
the less pressure is going to be occuring to this "smaller" stuff.
(sort of like the reason a ballon does not burst, is the equalling
pressure outside it ... remove that pressure and the balloon explands
even further and may even burst to release the pressure.)
If you think of an orbiting electrons and protons as a weather system
of the atom, you could actually start making new predictions of the
electrons and protons motions etc..
(yes.. it would be crazy just like weather patterns of a planet,
but that is what is happening when they start getting down to all this
probablity etc..)
We know the electron is not a solid.
This "non solid" acts like cloud system that are stuck in a pattern
around the atom.
(all be driven by surrounding particles and surrounding atoms etc..)
the pressure outside this "tiny planet" (other tiny planets) keeps the
atmosphere
from escaping until a large enough disturbance of the
"tiny pressures" occurs.
I know it does sound all crazy,
but think about no such thing as 0 pressure.
and it all starts to "fall" into place.
Basically I am stating there is no such thing as a perfect
0 vacuum and if there was, any pressure near it would want
to cancel it out.
so space is full of a tiny amount of differentials of pressure (even though
we
call it a vacuum)
The higher pressure areas act like simple bouyancy would,
(and like gravity does also if you really think about it)
If you have something more bouyant and close enough to the
center cube it will "fall" to the center cube.
If you have something less bouyant it will not "fall" to the center
and may even be pushed to a neutral position.
I don't mean to be rude, but I really am struggling to understand what
you mean - sorry!
No prob,
I know it is not worded perfectally and you actually have to
think about it a lot while also understanding the basics
of area and pressure differentials.
:)
We know that air actually has more pressure, the closer
you get to the ground and less pressure the further up you
get, so.. extend this "pressure differential" to electrons
and atoms atc... (much smaller numbers but still has
to be a differential)
and once this differential allows an "electron" or such
to expand to a certain degree, you won't even see it
as an electron anymore,, but it will still be there.
If you take a group of dots that normally you can not
see with the human eye, and gather them all
closer.. you end up seeing them as an "electron"
if you spread these dots aprat again, you can't
see them again.
So, if the electron is not a solid,
(like it seems to show us)
Why would it stay the same size in outerspace
as it would near Earth or near a gravitational enviroment.
and once we get to a certain pressure no longer surrounding
an electron, how can we still detect them if they are
spread out to far to see the "gathering" anymore.
:)
anyways..
the pressure differential of "even the smallest" stuff
can cause motion of larger stuff.
:)
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| User: "SCW" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 04:16:56 PM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's abit over the top?
SCW
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 01:21:19 PM |
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SCW wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
Spaceman wrote:
<judamd@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
The speed the air passes the object that make the "noise" is what
is needed.
A larger bore would need more air flow to produce the same speed.
Spitshit, Spaceshit, Spaceman, or whatever you call the little
troll has quite the track record and is a registered crank at
crank dot net.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Spaceman+site%3Awww.crank.net
For a few laughs try the Spaceman [spaceshit] Emulator
http://www.hyperdeath.co.uk/spaceman/
Sam? That's abit over the top?
SCW
You'll see!
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 10:38:33 PM |
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wrote:
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
My guess is that the minimum air flow necessary to sound the instrument
is related to the size of the embouchure, and to a lesser extent the
bore of the remaining tube. A larger embouchure will in general have a
larger average aperature than a smaller one, hence a larger air flow
for a given pressure differential across the lips.
I believe it was correctly pointed out that the acoustic energy
radiated must come from PV work of blowing, but incorrectly inferred
that we have to blow harder on a larger bore instrument because we are
radiating more energy. Who said we have to radiate more energy just
because the brass envelope is larger? That's like saying a larger
light bulb must be a higher wattage: it generally works that way by
design, but is not a physical requirement. I also wonder about the
relation of energy to frequency for a given loudness. Are tubas
designed to force us to blow more air than a trumpet because we need
more acoustic energy radiated at those frequencies to achieve the same
subjective loudness?
The French Horn is a special case: soprano mouthpiece mated to baritone
horn bore. The usual mid-pitch playing range is an octave higher in
overtones of the tube than for a trumpet. The lower overtones are
accessible, but have a blatting quality. So apparently to produce a
pleasant, or at least powerful, sound in a bass-baritone range with a
brass tube into which we spit -- incidently buzzing our lips -- it's
necessary to have some substantial are of lip flapping, which in turn
means more are will blow by, but perhaps also results in higher
amplitude flaps, which nicely compensates for the (I am assuming)
increased energetic requirements of low notes of a given loudness.
So a bass-brass instrument is like a political convention: lots of high
amplitude lip flapping, a lot of buzz, and some spit.
(Ok, I have to polish that joke some).
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
02 Mar 2006 06:31:19 AM |
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In article <1141274313.626245.9530@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote:
judamd@aol.com wrote:
<snip>
So a bass-brass instrument is like a political convention: lots of high
amplitude lip flapping, a lot of buzz, and some spit.
(Ok, I have to polish that joke some).
<GRIN> Reverse it?
/BAH
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 11:27:05 AM |
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wrote:
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
You blow air at all to do two things:
1. Get your lips to vibrate.
2. Provide the energy of the vibration.
With more air participating in the standing wave, you need to provide
more energy for that vibration. Note that the energy leaking out the
bell is also proportional to the area of the bore.
PD
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
01 Mar 2006 11:15:40 PM |
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In article <1141228895.920302.239910@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<judamd@aol.com> wrote:
As a retired physics teacher and a new trombone player I'm confused as
to why a larger bore trombone requires so much more air to play than a
smaller bore trombone. Isn't the horn full of air even before it left
the case? Isn't the player simply setting up standing waves in the air
column? Where does the extra air go?
Does the mouthpeice of the larger trombone have the same inside diameter
as the moutpeice of the smaller one?
--
"When the fool walks through the street, in his lack of understanding he
calls everything foolish." -- Ecclesiastes 10:3, New American Bible
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: trombone and physics |
08 Mar 2006 03:44:51 PM |
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Larger trombones usually have larger inside diameter mouthpieces but
there is more air required on the larger 'bone even with identical
mouthpieces. Another point: Moving the slide out results in a need
for more air since there is now a larger volume to fill. However, even
keeping the slide in one position and using the same mouthpiece, the
bigger bore horn requires more air.
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