| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Linus Cohen" |
| Date: |
24 Apr 2007 11:30:50 PM |
| Object: |
Universe with different physical laws |
Hi all,
I'm posting here because I need to work out some properties of a
universe I'm creating for some science fiction stories. The new
universe has light speed 10^9 times faster than our universe, and has
no weak nuclear force. I'm looking for the general properties of,
well, stuff, in the universe. If anyone has any ideas, please answer.
Cheers,
Linus
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
25 Apr 2007 09:35:27 AM |
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Linus Cohen wrote:
Hi all,
I'm posting here because I need to work out some properties of a
universe I'm creating for some science fiction stories. The new
universe has light speed 10^9 times faster than our universe, and has
no weak nuclear force. I'm looking for the general properties of,
well, stuff, in the universe. If anyone has any ideas, please answer.
Said universe would be visibly Newtonian with Galilean transforms
rather than relativistic with Lorentz transforms. E=mc^2 would pack
quite the punch: Chemical explosives would be 10^9 times more
powerful than H-bombs if chemistry were otherwise the same.
However...
Consider the permeability and permittivity of free space vs.
lightspeed and the fine structure constant (electromagnetic
interaction strength) from the former and lightspeed.
With no weak nuclear force there would be no nuclear fusion in stars
and no supernovae. The universe would not evolve in composition.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
25 Apr 2007 01:34:12 PM |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message =
news:462F672F.1D1CD725@hate.spam.net...
[snip wet fart]
Fuckin' ignorant bullshitting spammer, sci-fi is just about right for =
you.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
25 Apr 2007 01:36:32 PM |
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In article <462F672F.1D1CD725@hate.spam.net>, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> writes:
Linus Cohen wrote:
Hi all,
I'm posting here because I need to work out some properties of a
universe I'm creating for some science fiction stories. The new
universe has light speed 10^9 times faster than our universe, and has
no weak nuclear force. I'm looking for the general properties of,
well, stuff, in the universe. If anyone has any ideas, please answer.
Said universe would be visibly Newtonian with Galilean transforms
rather than relativistic with Lorentz transforms. E=mc^2 would pack
quite the punch: Chemical explosives would be 10^9 times more
powerful than H-bombs if chemistry were otherwise the same.
No, why. Change in c won't change the energy released, just the mass
deficit.
However...
Consider the permeability and permittivity of free space vs.
lightspeed and the fine structure constant (electromagnetic
interaction strength) from the former and lightspeed.
With no weak nuclear force there would be no nuclear fusion in stars
and no supernovae. The universe would not evolve in composition.
Yep. Will make for a rather uninteresting story.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
25 Apr 2007 12:47:20 AM |
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Linus Cohen wrote:
Hi all,
I'm posting here because I need to work out some properties of a
universe I'm creating for some science fiction stories. The new
universe has light speed 10^9 times faster than our universe, and has
no weak nuclear force. I'm looking for the general properties of,
well, stuff, in the universe. If anyone has any ideas, please answer.
Cheers,
Linus
With light speed 10^9 times faster, folks in your universe might
not stumble onto relativity for a very long time.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
25 Apr 2007 01:34:16 AM |
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In article <IXBXh.75648$_c5.11407@attbi_s22>, Sam Wormley <swormley1@mchsi.com> writes:
Linus Cohen wrote:
Hi all,
I'm posting here because I need to work out some properties of a
universe I'm creating for some science fiction stories. The new
universe has light speed 10^9 times faster than our universe, and has
no weak nuclear force. I'm looking for the general properties of,
well, stuff, in the universe. If anyone has any ideas, please answer.
Cheers,
Linus
With light speed 10^9 times faster, folks in your universe might
not stumble onto relativity for a very long time.
They will manage without it, I guess. The bigger problem will be that
there may not be folks in this universe. The very first step in
stellar fusion, this of fusing hydrogen into deuterium, depends on
weak interaction. So, while the OP cancels the weak force, he may
want to up slightly the strong force, enough to provide for a stable
state of a diproton nucleus.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
25 Apr 2007 09:06:16 AM |
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wrote:
In article <IXBXh.75648$_c5.11407@attbi_s22>, Sam Wormley <swormley1@mchsi.com> writes:
Linus Cohen wrote:
Hi all,
I'm posting here because I need to work out some properties of a
universe I'm creating for some science fiction stories. The new
universe has light speed 10^9 times faster than our universe, and has
no weak nuclear force. I'm looking for the general properties of,
well, stuff, in the universe. If anyone has any ideas, please answer.
Cheers,
Linus
With light speed 10^9 times faster, folks in your universe might
not stumble onto relativity for a very long time.
They will manage without it, I guess. The bigger problem will be that
there may not be folks in this universe. The very first step in
stellar fusion, this of fusing hydrogen into deuterium, depends on
weak interaction. So, while the OP cancels the weak force, he may
want to up slightly the strong force, enough to provide for a stable
state of a diproton nucleus.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
And with no radioactivity, chemistry would certainly be different.
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| User: "Ben Rudiak-Gould" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
26 Apr 2007 09:02:28 AM |
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Linus Cohen wrote:
Hi all,
I'm posting here because I need to work out some properties of a
universe I'm creating for some science fiction stories. The new
universe has light speed 10^9 times faster than our universe, and has
no weak nuclear force. I'm looking for the general properties of,
well, stuff, in the universe. If anyone has any ideas, please answer.
The constant c is just a ratio between our units of distance and time.
Multiplying it by 10^9 is just like choosing different units. Presumably
what you really want is for light to "seem" to go much faster, i.e. for our
thought processes to go much slower (along with everything else, like our
aging processes and stellar evolution and cosmic expansion and whatnot).
It's conceivable that it is possible to make this work by tweaking the
properties of all the fundamental particles, but I think probably it isn't.
Without the weak force I don't think there'd be any stuff of interest in the
universe. Along with what others have said, supernova explosion depends
critically on the weak force, and without supernovas there'd be no heavy
elements in later-generation stars like the sun, or in their planets. The
richness of chemistry is very delicately dependent on the values of various
parameters of the standard model (the so-called fine-tuning problem). In
general you can't multiply things by 10^9, or even by 2, without breaking
the balance and ending up with a boring universe filled with nothing but
hydrogen, or with nothing at all.
For science fiction purposes you're probably better off making high-level
changes without any low-level explanation.
-- Ben
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
26 Apr 2007 02:29:19 PM |
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Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
The constant c is just a ratio between our units of distance and time.
The speed of light is a constant (or appears to be so) in our universe
whether we invent units or not.
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
26 Apr 2007 02:52:30 PM |
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On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:29:19 GMT) it happened Sam Wormley
<swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in <j47Yh.17868$n_.9046@attbi_s21>:
Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
The constant c is just a ratio between our units of distance and time.
The speed of light is a constant (or appears to be so) in our universe
whether we invent units or not.
The one -way speed of light in vacuum has only be measured on earth I think,
and that using equipment that raises questions.
Spacecraft radio reply is always 2 way.
So 'universe' is a bit of an over statement for the experimental environment.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Universe with different physical laws |
04 May 2007 09:51:37 AM |
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Apr 2007 19:29:19 GMT) it happened Sam Wormley
<swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in <j47Yh.17868$n_.9046@attbi_s21>:
Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
The constant c is just a ratio between our units of distance and time.
The speed of light is a constant (or appears to be so) in our universe
whether we invent units or not.
The one -way speed of light in vacuum has only be measured on earth I think,
and that using equipment that raises questions.
Spacecraft radio reply is always 2 way.
So 'universe' is a bit of an over statement for the experimental environment.
Historically there is a body of OWLS experiments
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/experiments.html
3.2 One-Way Tests of Light-Speed Isotropy
Note that while these experiments clearly use a one-way light path
and find isotropy, they are inherently unable to rule out a large
class of theories in which the one-way speed of light is
anisotropic.These theories share the property that the round-trip
speed of light is isotropic in any inertial frame, but the one-way
speed is isotropic only in an ether frame. In all of these theories
the effects of slow clock transport exactly offset the effects of the
anisotropic one-way speed of light (in any inertial frame), and all
are experimentally indistinguishable from SR. All of these theories
predict null results for these experiments. See Test Theories above,
especially Zhang (in which these theories are called "Edwards
frames").
Cialdea, Lett. Nuovo Cimento 4 (1972), p821.
Uses two multi-mode lasers mounted on a rotating table to look for
variations in their interference pattern as the table is rotated.
Places an upper limit on any one-way anisotropy of 0.9 m/s.
Krisher et al., Phys. Rev. D, 42, No. 2, pp. 731-734, (1990).
Uses two hydrogen masers fixed to the earth and separated by a 21 km
fiber-optic link to look for variations in the phase between them.
They put an upper limit on the one-way linear anisotropy of 100 m/s.
Champeny et al, Phys. Lett. 7 (1963), p241.
Champeney, Isaak and Khan, Proc. Physical Soc. 85, p583 (1965).
Isaak et al, Phys. Bull. 21 (1970), p255.
Uses a rotating Moessbauer absorber and fixed detector to place an
upper limit on any one-way anisotropy of 3 m/s. [one part in 10^8]
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