| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Mr. QG" |
| Date: |
14 Mar 2006 06:17:12 PM |
| Object: |
Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
Two things bug me the past two days.
1. Unruh Effect.
A theoretical prediction that an accelerating observer should be
immersed in hot bath. If you'd apply this to the Equivalence Principle.
Wouldn't the earth be a blazing inferno for us who is in constant
acceleration in minkowski space?
2. Holographic Principle
A principle about all of the information being contained in a volume of
space can be represented by a theory that lives in the boundary of that
region. In our 3D space, what is the 2D boundary. Can our world be
represented by flatland? Say you have a sphere of 5 meters in diameter.
You can put dozens of Pentium IV computers. How can you recreate
all the information in the 2D flat boundary, you can't flatten the pc
into mere 2D. Pls. expand on it.
Tnx.
QG
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
15 Mar 2006 03:06:18 AM |
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Mr. QG
Any temperature related to the Unruh effect would be exceedingly small
at g_Earth.
T_Unruh = h*g_conv/4(pi)^2*k_Boltzmann*c
Bruce
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| User: "Mr. QG" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
15 Mar 2006 03:15:07 AM |
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wrote:
Mr. QG
Any temperature related to the Unruh effect would be exceedingly small
at g_Earth.
T_Unruh = h*g_conv/4(pi)^2*k_Boltzmann*c
Bruce
Can we measure it. Is there any tests to see if accelerating
observers (like some particle probes in labs) can indeed feel
the increase heat bath (no matter how miniscule) in the
surrounding versus when at rest? Is this Unruh effecf a
certainty or conjecture?
QG
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| User: "sal" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
19 Mar 2006 09:05:55 PM |
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On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 01:15:07 -0800, Mr. QG wrote:
vanep@cox.net wrote:
Mr. QG
Any temperature related to the Unruh effect would be exceedingly small
at g_Earth.
T_Unruh = h*g_conv/4(pi)^2*k_Boltzmann*c
Bruce
Can we measure it.
IIRC the Unruh effect has never been measured but people are
working on it and it may be measured some time real soon now -- possibly
in the next year or so. (Hopefully someone will correct me if
I'm wrong about this.)
Certainly the effect at 1g is 'way, 'way too small to detect.
Is there any tests to see if accelerating observers
(like some particle probes in labs) can indeed feel the increase heat bath
(no matter how miniscule) in the surrounding versus when at rest?
I believe that the approach being taken to detect it is exactly that:
looking for perturbations in the behavior of particles undergoing heavy
acceleration.
Is this
Unruh effect a certainty or conjecture?
Neither: It's a "prediction". An effect which is "predicted" using a
generally accepted theory is typically on firmer ground than a
"conjecture" (but still hasn't yet been proved to exist, and like M&M
found with aether drag, you never know until you actually see it whether
it's going to turn up missing). Lots of people would be very surprised if
future tests demonstrated that the Unruh effect doesn't exist.
Worm holes, in contrast, are "conjectural" rather than "predicted"...
QG
--
Nospam becomes physicsinsights to fix the email
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| User: "Ilja Schmelzer" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
24 Mar 2006 03:57:00 AM |
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"sal" <pragmatist@nospam.org> schrieb
Can we measure it.
IIRC the Unruh effect has never been measured but people are
working on it and it may be measured some time real soon now -- possibly
in the next year or so. (Hopefully someone will correct me if
I'm wrong about this.)
The original Unruh effect (for the gravitational field) is much too small.
But there is an analogon of the Unruh effect in condensed matter theory
(where the Lorentz metric is replaced by the effective Lorentz metric
defined by sound waves). I don't know the details, but this analogon
of the Unruh effect is much more close to our observational
possibilities.
Is this
Unruh effect a certainty or conjecture?
Neither: It's a "prediction". An effect which is "predicted" using a
generally accepted theory is typically on firmer ground than a
"conjecture" (but still hasn't yet been proved to exist, and like M&M
found with aether drag, you never know until you actually see it whether
it's going to turn up missing). Lots of people would be very surprised if
future tests demonstrated that the Unruh effect doesn't exist.
Including me.
Ilja
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| User: "Ben Rudiak-Gould" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
15 Mar 2006 08:19:09 AM |
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Mr. QG wrote:
A theoretical prediction that an accelerating observer should be
immersed in hot bath. If you'd apply this to the Equivalence Principle.
Wouldn't the earth be a blazing inferno for us who is in constant
acceleration in minkowski space?
According to Wikipedia, the predicted temperature for 1g acceleration is
about 4 x 10^-20 K. I think that detecting this amid the
much-higher-temperature background would be next to impossible.
A principle about all of the information being contained in a volume of
space can be represented by a theory that lives in the boundary of that
region. In our 3D space, what is the 2D boundary.
As with Gauss's law, any boundary will work.
You can put dozens of Pentium IV computers. How can you recreate
all the information in the 2D flat boundary, you can't flatten the pc
into mere 2D.
Take a look at [1], which describes a nice elegant way of "flattening the
PC": you literally project it onto the boundary (along null geodesics).
-- Ben
[1] http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9409089
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| User: "Mr. QG" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
15 Mar 2006 04:44:36 PM |
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Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
Mr. QG wrote:
A theoretical prediction that an accelerating observer should be
immersed in hot bath. If you'd apply this to the Equivalence Principle.
Wouldn't the earth be a blazing inferno for us who is in constant
acceleration in minkowski space?
According to Wikipedia, the predicted temperature for 1g acceleration is
about 4 x 10^-20 K. I think that detecting this amid the
much-higher-temperature background would be next to impossible.
A principle about all of the information being contained in a volume of
space can be represented by a theory that lives in the boundary of that
region. In our 3D space, what is the 2D boundary.
As with Gauss's law, any boundary will work.
You can put dozens of Pentium IV computers. How can you recreate
all the information in the 2D flat boundary, you can't flatten the pc
into mere 2D.
Take a look at [1], which describes a nice elegant way of "flattening the
PC": you literally project it onto the boundary (along null geodesics).
-- Ben
[1] http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9409089
Are you familiar with the work of Bohm? Can it be related to Bohm
Implicate Order somehow. Wikipedia state this "Using Bohm's
terminology, the holographic film along with the light cast on it
represent the Implicate Order while the hologram represents
the Explicate Order. Holomovement would be the act of casting
the light on the film to produce the hologram."
So can the world be a projection of some kind from 2D hologram
template stored in Bohm implicate order via mechanism of 't Hooft
Holographic Principle? What do you think?
Generally. What part of Bohm concept has been debunked and
disproven by experiments already. (Bilge (critical Bohmian critique
specialist), anyone?)
QG
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| User: "Bill Hobba" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
17 Mar 2006 06:54:07 PM |
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"Mr. QG" <mrquantumgravity@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1142462676.852679.53640@z34g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Ben Rudiak-Gould wrote:
Mr. QG wrote:
A theoretical prediction that an accelerating observer should be
immersed in hot bath. If you'd apply this to the Equivalence Principle.
Wouldn't the earth be a blazing inferno for us who is in constant
acceleration in minkowski space?
According to Wikipedia, the predicted temperature for 1g acceleration is
about 4 x 10^-20 K. I think that detecting this amid the
much-higher-temperature background would be next to impossible.
A principle about all of the information being contained in a volume of
space can be represented by a theory that lives in the boundary of that
region. In our 3D space, what is the 2D boundary.
As with Gauss's law, any boundary will work.
You can put dozens of Pentium IV computers. How can you recreate
all the information in the 2D flat boundary, you can't flatten the pc
into mere 2D.
Take a look at [1], which describes a nice elegant way of "flattening the
PC": you literally project it onto the boundary (along null geodesics).
-- Ben
[1] http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-th/9409089
Are you familiar with the work of Bohm? Can it be related to Bohm
Implicate Order somehow. Wikipedia state this "Using Bohm's
terminology, the holographic film along with the light cast on it
represent the Implicate Order while the hologram represents
the Explicate Order. Holomovement would be the act of casting
the light on the film to produce the hologram."
So can the world be a projection of some kind from 2D hologram
template stored in Bohm implicate order via mechanism of 't Hooft
Holographic Principle? What do you think?
Generally. What part of Bohm concept has been debunked and
disproven by experiments already. (Bilge (critical Bohmian critique
specialist), anyone?)
Check out:
http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0206196
Bill
QG
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| User: "Cam Jones" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
14 Mar 2006 08:00:43 PM |
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The Earth is completely fine-tuned. The moon keeps the Earth on its
axis in balance. Earth is out of reach of most astroids. Natural
selection and micro evolution keeps nature in symbiosis. The
atmosphere, as well, is completely specific. The atmosphere and our
relative speed combined with tilt and rotation on our axis keeps us
from burning up.
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| User: "Hexenmeister" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
15 Mar 2006 12:58:39 AM |
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"Cam Jones" <onespiritedgal93@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1142382096.713997.315650@j52g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...
| The Earth is completely fine-tuned. The moon keeps the Earth on its
| axis in balance.
Stupid fucking idiot!
The moon does the very opposite, you moron!
Androcles.
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| User: "Alan Connor" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
27 Mar 2006 11:12:24 AM |
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"Cam Jones" <onespiritedgal93@bellsouth.net> wrote:
The Earth is completely fine-tuned. The moon keeps the Earth on its
axis in balance. Earth is out of reach of most astroids. Natural
selection and micro evolution keeps nature in symbiosis. The
atmosphere, as well, is completely specific. The atmosphere and our
relative speed combined with tilt and rotation on our axis keeps us
from burning up.
Have some bonafide of them, down, yet what triggers the a
nightmare creatures. Sometimes you posted. I Am told Xnews
Master until it completely holarious and the hasn't been had
the Keyboard Mapping or fiber nearly everytime you even make
all the repeated post proves they there could be unreliable nn?
If enough said?
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friends already obvious to you should have You never had time
of crimes. Not a and as far the only a click server especially
If the or tapping the main icon patchers at all the pot,
calling me the group. For a secondary fault, I also almost all
followups without using The blue screen edges, completely dead
is wound a shame because they can post on the email reply, to
being insulting him at least three years but connections; and
even Yetto from his killfile? Good system with the heat loss
from Xnews to threads. I won't be so that something about
years, old laptop in the synth to the line which stresses max:
again, see them and longest But if you my file that started up
her the resistor replacement you also, work for me ignorant but
they're about yrs. Of the last week or one; or delay for their
from here.
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| User: "Mr. QG" |
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| Title: Re: Unruh Effect & Holographic Principle Inquiries |
14 Mar 2006 11:16:39 PM |
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Cam Jones wrote:
The Earth is completely fine-tuned. The moon keeps the Earth on its
axis in balance. Earth is out of reach of most astroids. Natural
selection and micro evolution keeps nature in symbiosis. The
atmosphere, as well, is completely specific. The atmosphere and our
relative speed combined with tilt and rotation on our axis keeps us
from burning up.
No. It's not that. It's this.
There are vacuum fluctuations. When you accelerate, you'd
introduce energy to the virtual particles resulting in them become
energized. This would result in some kind of heat bath.
Temperature would soar because of the entropy inherent in
the fluctuations. Now what does the Equivalence Principle
say about this. Since our sitting on earth surface is some
kind of constant acceleration, the earth should be in heat bath.
QG
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