| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
30 Mar 2006 09:34:16 PM |
| Object: |
Wave Particle Duality |
I've constructed an expirement in wave particle duality that proves
that through observation light changes from a wave to a particle!
I used a laser pointer and a mirror to duplicate the double slit
expirement. I scratched two small slits just a mm appart in the back
of the mirror, and glued it to the tip of the laser pointer. Now, when
I turn the laser on I can see a clear interference pattern in the laser
that looks like:
| | | || | | |
I also read that if you can observe light comming through just one of
the slips the wavefunction collapse in quantum physics causes the light
to behave as a particle instead of as a wave. You see the reason light
behaves as a wave is because it exists in a superposition as both a
wave and a particle, and when there is no observation of the individual
photons each particle goes through both slits in the expiriment.
In order to observe just one of the slits I have taken a small octogon
prism and have used it to cover the slits. The prisim is about the
size of a dime and has a thin edge, so when I cover one of the slits I
can see a clear line of light without the interference pattern.
However when I cover both slits with the prism the origonal wave
re-appears.
This expiriment proves wave can be a particle and a wave, because using
the prism I am able to observe the light through both slits as
different. The prism changes the light through one slit, but when it
covers both slits then the light from both slits is changed and
observed the same. This expirement is very much like setting up two
single slit laser pointer expiriments side by side except with the same
photons.
Proof that the wave particle collapse of the superposition of light is
due to our own observations! Albert Einstein won the nobel prize for
proving light was a particle, but I bet you none of the people on
sci.physics or sci.optics will even believe me, so I cross posted this
to sci.magick.
.
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| User: "Hexenmeister" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 03:58:54 AM |
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<CoreyWhite@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1143776056.718514.311050@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...
| I've constructed an expirement in wave particle duality that proves
| that through observation light changes from a wave to a particle!
|
| I used a laser pointer and a mirror to duplicate the double slit
| expirement. I scratched two small slits just a mm appart in the back
| of the mirror, and glued it to the tip of the laser pointer. Now, when
| I turn the laser on I can see a clear interference pattern in the laser
| that looks like:
|| | | || | | |
|
| I also read that if you can observe light comming through just one of
| the slips the wavefunction collapse in quantum physics causes the light
| to behave as a particle instead of as a wave. You see the reason light
| behaves as a wave is because it exists in a superposition as both a
| wave and a particle, and when there is no observation of the individual
| photons each particle goes through both slits in the expiriment.
|
| In order to observe just one of the slits I have taken a small octogon
| prism and have used it to cover the slits. The prisim is about the
| size of a dime and has a thin edge, so when I cover one of the slits I
| can see a clear line of light without the interference pattern.
| However when I cover both slits with the prism the origonal wave
| re-appears.
|
| This expiriment proves wave can be a particle and a wave, because using
| the prism I am able to observe the light through both slits as
| different. The prism changes the light through one slit, but when it
| covers both slits then the light from both slits is changed and
| observed the same. This expirement is very much like setting up two
| single slit laser pointer expiriments side by side except with the same
| photons.
|
| Proof that the wave particle collapse of the superposition of light is
| due to our own observations! Albert Einstein won the nobel prize for
| proving light was a particle, but I bet you none of the people on
| sci.physics or sci.optics will even believe me, so I cross posted this
| to sci.magick.
Guud for u, it is worthwhile expirementalating. When does
your ixpiriment in slips expire? :-)
Androcles.
.
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 03:02:22 PM |
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I'm really appreciative of your comment because I'm not a physicist and
other opinions matter a whole lot to me. If you think about it using a
crystal prism to observe the photons comming through one slit makes
since, because prisms brake light up according to what sort of particle
they are. When a prism creates a rainbow they are dividing up light
according to the energy levels of each of the photons, which can't
really happen if light were a wave. Lasers themselves use quantum
physics to produce a stream of photons with a crystal to focus the
light into a point. I've been working on designing a more
professional version of this expirement and am going to test out
different kinds of lenses and prisms to see how well they work to show
the particle nature of light. I have a friend who is a physics
engineer so he should be able to help me build a working model. If
everything goes as planned we will see these things in stores by
Christmass. :\
.
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| User: "Helpful person" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
30 Mar 2006 11:18:35 PM |
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I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
wave nor a particle. It has properties of both. Wave and particle
descriptions are used so that our limited minds can begin to understand
how elementary particles behave.
What a waste of time.
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
.
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| User: "Hexenmeister" |
|
| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 03:58:54 AM |
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|
"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143782315.504640.213010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com...
|I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
| wave nor a particle. It has properties of both. Wave and particle
| descriptions are used so that our limited minds can begin to understand
| how elementary particles behave.
|
| What a waste of time.
|
| Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
Not too helpful... mostly bragging and touting for business.
I wish people would stop and be honest for a change.
What a waste of time.
Please visit my web site at
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AC/AC.htm
Androcles.
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| User: "redbelly" |
|
| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 08:56:30 AM |
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|
Helpful person wrote:
I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
wave nor a particle. It has properties of both.
I always think of it as: light is both a particle and a wave. (As
opposed to being neither.)
I'm reminded of a cartoon I saw about a year and half ago. A reporter
is asking John Kerry whether he believes that light is made of
particles or waves. "Stop flip-flopping on the issue and take a stand,
Mr. Kerry!" LOL.
Mark
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| User: "Bob May" |
|
| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 02:47:55 PM |
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When you start thinking of a photon as a particle, you have to remember that
it expands as it travels like a wave. If light was indeed a particle then
the two slit question would never happen! Since it does happen, then it
must be a wave.
--
Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?
.
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| User: "Al Smith" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 04:17:52 PM |
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Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?
Exercise?
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| User: "Salmon Egg" |
|
| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 08:15:43 PM |
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On 4/1/06 12:47 PM, in article 3vadnQtiwsZMe7PZRVn-tw@nethere.com, "Bob May"
<bobmay@nethere.com> wrote:
When you start thinking of a photon as a particle, you have to remember that
it expands as it travels like a wave. If light was indeed a particle then
the two slit question would never happen! Since it does happen, then it
must be a wave.
It is an is not a this or that. The laws of photons as verified by
experiment were presented Feynman a number of times. These are laws suitable
for certain kinds of calculations--not an explanation.
Others have done similar things but I find the Feynman presentation most in
tune with my way of thinking.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
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| User: "Helpful person" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 09:14:10 AM |
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redbelly wrote:
nor a particle. It has properties of both.
I always think of it as: light is both a particle and a wave. (As
opposed to being neither.)
Mark
A good way to wrap one's mind arround the "problem", as long as one
hangs on to reality (whatever that is).
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
.
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| User: "Sam Goldwasser" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 10:11:15 AM |
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"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> writes:
redbelly wrote:
nor a particle. It has properties of both.
I always think of it as: light is both a particle and a wave. (As
opposed to being neither.)
Mark
A good way to wrap one's mind arround the "problem", as long as one
hangs on to reality (whatever that is).
Prove that what we experience is real. :)
--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
.
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| User: "redbelly" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
02 Apr 2006 08:09:22 AM |
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redbelly wrote:
I always think of it as: light is both a particle and a wave. (As
opposed to being neither.)
"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> writes:
A good way to wrap one's mind arround the "problem", as long as one
hangs on to reality (whatever that is).
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Prove that what we experience is real. :)
Define reality. :-)
.
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| User: "Sam Goldwasser" |
|
| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
02 Apr 2006 08:54:46 AM |
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"redbelly" <redbelly98@yahoo.com> writes:
redbelly wrote:
I always think of it as: light is both a particle and a wave. (As
opposed to being neither.)
"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> writes:
A good way to wrap one's mind arround the "problem", as long as one
hangs on to reality (whatever that is).
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Prove that what we experience is real. :)
Define reality. :-)
Now there's the problem. :)
--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html
Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is
ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the
subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs.
.
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| User: "Joseph Littleshoes" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 09:26:26 AM |
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|
Helpful person wrote:
I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
wave nor a particle. It has properties of both. Wave and particle
descriptions are used so that our limited minds can begin to understand
how elementary particles behave.
What a waste of time.
Houston we have a particle!
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 11:18:21 AM |
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|
Joseph Littleshoes wrote:
Helpful person wrote:
I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
wave nor a particle. It has properties of both. Wave and particle
descriptions are used so that our limited minds can begin to understand
how elementary particles behave.
What a waste of time.
Houston we have a particle!
NASA is too dumb, to say those things.
The only thing they everr say, is
Houston, we have a German.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
30 Mar 2006 11:27:07 PM |
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Helpful person wrote:
I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
wave nor a particle. It has properties of both. Wave and particle
descriptions are used so that our limited minds can begin to understand
how elementary particles behave.
What a waste of time.
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
What is your largest diameter Apochromatic Objective?
.
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| User: "Helpful person" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 03:01:10 PM |
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As large as you need. The one on my web site is a paper design. There
are tricks to create apochromatic designs using the anomolous glass
further back in the system so that it is small.
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 03:15:16 PM |
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Helpful person wrote:
As large as you need. The one on my web site is a paper design. There
are tricks to create apochromatic designs using the anomolous glass
further back in the system so that it is small.
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
Have you never made one of your apochromatic lenses?
.
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| User: "Salmon Egg" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 12:39:46 AM |
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On 3/30/06 9:18 PM, in article
1143782315.504640.213010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com, "Helpful person"
<rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote:
I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
wave nor a particle. It has properties of both. Wave and particle
descriptions are used so that our limited minds can begin to understand
how elementary particles behave.
What a waste of time.
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
Before his death, Richard Feynman gave some lectures at the University of
Auckland. See http://www.vega.org.uk/video/subseries/8.
In these lectures, Feynman declares that photons are particles. Of course,
mere declaration even by someone as eminent as Feynman does not make it so.
Nevertheless, Feynman explains how to calculate the probability of a photon
getting to a detector. He says that his method explains what is known about
the propagation of photons but not not why the method actually works. To
understand why it works is beyond the scope of his lectures and he claims he
does not understand it anyway. As for me, his methods give results that
agree with my limited experimental knowledge of photons.
In short, photons are particles but there paths are determined by wavelike
properties.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 10:03:48 AM |
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Salmon Egg wrote:
On 3/30/06 9:18 PM, in article
1143782315.504640.213010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com, "Helpful person"
<rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote:
I wish people would stop and think for a change. Light is neither a
wave nor a particle. It has properties of both. Wave and particle
descriptions are used so that our limited minds can begin to understand
how elementary particles behave.
What a waste of time.
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
Before his death, Richard Feynman gave some lectures at the University of
Auckland. See http://www.vega.org.uk/video/subseries/8.
In these lectures, Feynman declares that photons are particles. Of course,
mere declaration even by someone as eminent as Feynman does not make it so.
Nevertheless, Feynman explains how to calculate the probability of a photon
getting to a detector. He says that his method explains what is known about
the propagation of photons but not not why the method actually works. To
understand why it works is beyond the scope of his lectures and he claims he
does not understand it anyway. As for me, his methods give results that
agree with my limited experimental knowledge of photons.
In short, photons are particles but there paths are determined by wavelike
properties.
In long though, Feynmann is anti-wrong about photons.
Since his photons only hit their targets because of the wave
properties
of the detector, not the particle properties of the light.
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
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| User: "Helpful person" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 02:54:56 PM |
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Salmon Egg wrote:
On 3/30/06 9:18 PM, in article
1143782315.504640.213010@u72g2000cwu.googlegroups.com, "Helpful person"
Before his death, Richard Feynman gave some lectures at the University of
Auckland. See http://www.vega.org.uk/video/subseries/8.
In these lectures, Feynman declares that photons are particles. Of course,
mere declaration even by someone as eminent as Feynman does not make it so.
Nevertheless, Feynman explains how to calculate the probability of a photon
getting to a detector. He says that his method explains what is known about
the propagation of photons but not not why the method actually works. To
understand why it works is beyond the scope of his lectures and he claims he
does not understand it anyway. As for me, his methods give results that
agree with my limited experimental knowledge of photons.
In short, photons are particles but there paths are determined by wavelike
properties.
Bill
Here we go again! Quoting other people instead of using a modicum of
thought.
If they are particles with wave like properties they are obviously
neither particles nor waves!
Please visit my web site at www.richardfisher.com
.
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 02:56:36 PM |
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"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143838496.161813.78750@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If they are particles with wave like properties they are obviously
neither particles nor waves!
Obviously then they must be wavicles.
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 03:27:47 PM |
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:zIgXf.3200$u15.500083@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143838496.161813.78750@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If they are particles with wave like properties they are obviously
neither particles nor waves!
Obviously then they must be wavicles.
No way,
wavicles are are frozen waves..
:)
.
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| User: "Archangel" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 03:51:38 AM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:HtSdnekKQcVUA7DZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:zIgXf.3200$u15.500083@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143838496.161813.78750@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If they are particles with wave like properties they are obviously
neither particles nor waves!
Obviously then they must be wavicles.
No way,
wavicles are are frozen waves..
:)
and testicles are?
A
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 11:12:20 AM |
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"Archangel" <Archangel@nulldev.com> wrote in message
news:K2sXf.343686$vi2.221465@fe03.news.easynews.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:HtSdnekKQcVUA7DZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:zIgXf.3200$u15.500083@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143838496.161813.78750@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If they are particles with wave like properties they are obviously
neither particles nor waves!
Obviously then they must be wavicles.
No way,
wavicles are are frozen waves..
:)
and testicles are?
frozen school tests..
LOL
.
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| User: "Meltdarok" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 11:45:49 AM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:ZcudnX_9TozpKbPZRVn-tg@comcast.com...
"Archangel" <Archangel@nulldev.com> wrote in message
news:K2sXf.343686$vi2.221465@fe03.news.easynews.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:HtSdnekKQcVUA7DZnZ2dnUVZ_v6dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:zIgXf.3200$u15.500083@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Helpful person" <rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1143838496.161813.78750@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
If they are particles with wave like properties they are obviously
neither particles nor waves!
Obviously then they must be wavicles.
No way,
wavicles are are frozen waves..
:)
and testicles are?
frozen school tests..
LOL
Shhhh!
--
meltdarok
http://hometown.aol.com/meltdarok/
.
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| User: "=?UTF-8?Q?Jeff=E2=80=A6Relf?=" |
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| Title: Photons are like little bullets. |
31 Mar 2006 06:13:28 PM |
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Hi Helpful_person and Salmon_Parr ( Dictionary.COM/search?q=Parr ),
While the spin of the earth and it's path around the sun are well known,
a priori, the spin of a photon and its path are _Never_ fully known,
even after it's, ahem, measured.
So... The key to understanding cosmology is noting that
nothing is intrinsically random; instead, some things are simply unknown,
given _Today_'s best observations/theories.
Lasers and Atom_Lasers are Bose-Einstein condensates,
which means that they are _Very_ cold.
So the destructive power of a laser comes only from its Relativistic_Mass.
For example, some Cosmic_Rays, although just a proton or two,
sometimes have energies approaching that of a speeding bullet.
So... Photons are like little bullets,
imparting momentum to solar sails, for example.
.
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| User: "Salmon Egg" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 03:13:32 PM |
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On 3/31/06 12:54 PM, in article
1143838496.161813.78750@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "Helpful person"
<rrllff@yahoo.com> wrote:
Here we go again! Quoting other people instead of using a modicum of
thought.
If they are particles with wave like properties they are obviously
neither particles nor waves!
You are beginning to get it!
Bill
-- Ferme le Bush
.
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| User: "Bob May" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
31 Mar 2006 04:36:15 PM |
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Light is not a particle! It is a wave.
Here's my reasoning. Light has been proven to be an electomagnetic wave in
some experiments. It responds to all of the operations done on it that also
work for the lower frequencies of electromagnetic waves in the same manner.
It also is capable of being polarized just like other electromagnetic waves.
Now, the question is: How does it attain some of the actions of particles?
Try that it is of such a high energy level that you start seeing the effects
of the energy on things. Remember that E = MC^2? Way back when, it was
found that as the light from a star passes near the sun (optical path
guys!), it is bent a bit by the gravity of the Sun. This proves that there
is mass to the star's light. I'll also note that we use electromagnetic
wave formulas for determining the intensity/distance of other stars rather
than some other formula.
I'll also note that as the frequency goes up (x rays, for example), the mass
actions of the light become more pronounced which is quite understandable as
the energy level goes up with the frequency.
--
Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?
.
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| User: "Archangel" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 03:54:40 AM |
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"Bob May" <bobmay@nethere.com> wrote in message
news:VOmdnVUkgNAqM7DZnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@nethere.com...
Light is not a particle! It is a wave.
Here are a few questions you could ask yourself.
Is a photon a discrete waveform package?
Does light have a velocity?
Does light have energy?
Does light have a mass equivalent?
Does a photon have momentum?
A
.
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| User: "Bob May" |
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| Title: Re: Wave Particle Duality |
01 Apr 2006 02:43:45 PM |
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Archangel <Archangel@nulldev.com> wrote in message
news:A5sXf.92429$vq2.40578@fe05.news.easynews.com...
"Bob May" <bobmay@nethere.com> wrote in message
news:VOmdnVUkgNAqM7DZnZ2dnUVZ_v-dnZ2d@nethere.com...
Light is not a particle! It is a wave.
Here are a few questions you could ask yourself.
Is a photon a discrete waveform package?
Just like lower frequencies, it is a waveform package. Look to the actions
of a radar system for an example. Pulses are easily generated and send to a
target and reflected back to the source. Lasers also are quite capable of
doing the same thing. Do remember that the size of the wavelength is much
shorter so the generation of single wave is a lot more difficult.
Does light have a velocity?
Of course! All electromagnetic waves have the same velocity through a
particular medium, aside from any modifiers that the medium may give the
frequency as happens in glass with light frequencies.
Does light have energy?
Yep, light does heat up materials that it impinges on!
Does light have a mass equivalent?
Light is energy so it most definitely does have a mass equivalent. Dark
mass may just be the light from the stars still travelling through the
"ether" of the universe.
Does a photon have momentum?
Momentum is a property of mass itself rather than energy so I'd more say not
but due to the mass/energy laws, momentum is implied. The light sails that
people are talking about need to have the implication of momentum to produce
the effects of motion to work.
Remember that light frequencies are very short and are getting to the point
where the energy carried by them is becoming large compared to that
necessary to move particles when the light impinges on the mass.
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Why do penguins walk so far to get to their nesting grounds?
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