| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"galsaba" |
| Date: |
01 Dec 2005 12:53:31 PM |
| Object: |
What are the units to measure belt tension |
1. What are the units to measure a tension of a belt? are they pound?
or pound x inch (force x distance)?
2. Is distance a vector?
galsaba
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 01:07:48 PM |
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galsaba wrote:
1. What are the units to measure a tension of a belt? are they pound?
or pound x inch (force x distance)?
Strictly speaking, the tension has units of force. However, when
applied to a pulley of some known radius, the *torque* that this
tension applies would have units force x distance.
2. Is distance a vector?
No, but it is the scalar *magnitude* of a vector with a slightly
different name.
Did you win the bet?
PD
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| User: "galsaba" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 01:27:35 PM |
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You are quick, smart, and knowledgable.
I talked with some engineers, and I feel comfortable now.
As for the bet...I will not tell him what I found out..
Actually, I agreed with him that distance is not a vector, and I
knocked my had how I thought it was a vector...
Although i was not specific, you gave me really what I needed as for
the two aspects - where to use force, and where to use torque.
Really excellent answers!
Thanks you!!
(if I have more in the future, should I post it here?
who are you?)
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 01:48:58 PM |
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galsaba wrote:
Really excellent answers!
Thanks you!!
Glad to be of help.
(if I have more in the future, should I post it here?
who are you?)
Yes, you can post future questions here. There are a good number of
knowledgable people who frequent this group who will provide answers.
There are also a larger number of pretenders, some of whom you'll be
able to discern immediately, but also others who know just enough to
sound plausible but not enough to get it right.
I'll leave it as an exercise for you to judge which of these categories
my answer fits into. :>)
PD
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 07:51:18 PM |
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"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133466538.311143.162090@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
galsaba wrote:
Really excellent answers!
Thanks you!!
Glad to be of help.
(if I have more in the future, should I post it here?
who are you?)
Yes, you can post future questions here. There are a good number of
knowledgable people who frequent this group who will provide answers.
There are also a larger number of pretenders, some of whom you'll be
able to discern immediately, but also others who know just enough to
sound plausible but not enough to get it right.
I'll leave it as an exercise for you to judge which of these categories
my answer fits into. :>)
PD
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133428326.622627.173990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Androcles wrote:
But I never once claimed 0.5 s = 0.5 Hz, Phuckwit Duck. There was no
error
to acknowledge, you've fucked up.
and refused to remove the erroneous statement
from further discussion. Shake your stinkbait in front of someone who
notices you.
You are a *****, Phuckwit Duck. Cite where I said what you LIED I said.
Sure. It's recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq2.html
which of course followed an earlier post, echoing what you once said on
your ill-fated website, also recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq.html
I don't lie, Androcles. You do. Now go away.
PD
Let a clock emit a frequency of 1 Hz be moving relative to
an observer with velocity 0.866c
Comment:
Such a clock is supposed to tick at a lower rate as a result of it s
velocity.
The velocity chosen is such that gamma = 2.
Therefore the clock ticks 1 second for every 2 seconds of the "stationary"
reference clock.
Einstein's FUMBLE:
t-vx/c^2
t' = _______________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
ref (Electrodynamics, section 3)
Calculation:
= t * sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
= 1 * 0.5
= 0.5 seconds
= 1 tick per 2 seconds
Comment:
One second measured by the "moving" clock has duration two seconds
measured by the "stationary" clock. The "moving" clock is (supposedly)
running slow.
You lie, moortel lies.
0.5 seconds (measured by the "moving" clock)
is 0.5 Hz (measured by the "stationary" clock)
You are as stupid as they come, a totally ignorant phuckwit.
I will not go away, I will hound you for the ***** you are.
Androcles.
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| User: "galsaba" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 02:14:15 PM |
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Thanks!
I hear that there are people arguing now here (next office) about the
following:
"Which has higher torque the first gear on the car, or the fifth gear".
May be i can play smart...(if u give me the answer)
galsaba
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 03:43:48 PM |
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"galsaba" <galsaba@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133468055.488510.320140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Thanks!
I hear that there are people arguing now here (next office) about the
following:
"Which has higher torque the first gear on the car, or the fifth gear".
It's a false argument. Plot the curve of an engines torque vs rpm and you
find it has a peak. It's possible for the engine to operate at that peak in
_any_ gear if the speed is right. It's also possible for it to be operating
away from the peak in any gear if the speed is "wrong".
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 07:40:11 PM |
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CWatters wrote:
"galsaba" <galsaba@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133468055.488510.320140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Thanks!
I hear that there are people arguing now here (next office) about the
following:
"Which has higher torque the first gear on the car, or the fifth gear".
It's a false argument. Plot the curve of an engines torque vs rpm and you
find it has a peak. It's possible for the engine to operate at that peak in
_any_ gear if the speed is right. It's also possible for it to be operating
away from the peak in any gear if the speed is "wrong".
Torque is usually measured at the transmission box *before* the
gearing. This is what makes the torque peak at a particular rpm, more
or less independently of what gear the transmission is in (each of
which would correspond to a different cruising road speed at that rpm).
I believe the OP was asking about torque at the wheels, however, and
there the transmission does need to be taken into account.
PD
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
02 Dec 2005 03:28:53 AM |
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"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133487611.010186.296520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Torque is usually measured at the transmission box *before* the
gearing. This is what makes the torque peak at a particular rpm, more
or less independently of what gear the transmission is in (each of
which would correspond to a different cruising road speed at that rpm).
I believe the OP was asking about torque at the wheels, however, and
there the transmission does need to be taken into account.
Isn't that too obvious?
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
02 Dec 2005 06:55:02 AM |
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"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133487611.010186.296520@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
CWatters wrote:
"galsaba" <galsaba@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1133468055.488510.320140@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Thanks!
I hear that there are people arguing now here (next office) about the
following:
"Which has higher torque the first gear on the car, or the fifth gear".
It's a false argument. Plot the curve of an engines torque vs rpm and you
find it has a peak. It's possible for the engine to operate at that peak
in
_any_ gear if the speed is right. It's also possible for it to be
operating
away from the peak in any gear if the speed is "wrong".
Torque is usually measured at the transmission box *before* the
gearing. This is what makes the torque peak at a particular rpm, more
or less independently of what gear the transmission is in (each of
which would correspond to a different cruising road speed at that rpm).
I believe the OP was asking about torque at the wheels, however, and
there the transmission does need to be taken into account.
PD
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133428326.622627.173990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Androcles wrote:
But I never once claimed 0.5 s = 0.5 Hz, Phuckwit Duck. There was no
error
to acknowledge, you've fucked up.
and refused to remove the erroneous statement
from further discussion. Shake your stinkbait in front of someone who
notices you.
You are a *****, Phuckwit Duck. Cite where I said what you LIED I said.
Sure. It's recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq2.html
which of course followed an earlier post, echoing what you once said on
your ill-fated website, also recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq.html
I don't lie, Androcles. You do. Now go away.
PD
Let a clock emit a frequency of 1 Hz be moving relative to
an observer with velocity 0.866c
Comment:
Such a clock is supposed to tick at a lower rate as a result of it s
velocity.
The velocity chosen is such that gamma = 2.
Therefore the clock ticks 1 second for every 2 seconds of the "stationary"
reference clock.
Einstein's FUMBLE:
t-vx/c^2
t' = _______________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
ref (Electrodynamics, section 3)
Calculation:
= t * sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
= 1 * 0.5
= 0.5 seconds
= 1 tick per 2 seconds
Comment:
One second measured by the "moving" clock has duration two seconds
measured by the "stationary" clock. The "moving" clock is (supposedly)
running slow.
You lie, moortel lies.
0.5 seconds (measured by the "moving" clock)
is 0.5 Hz (measured by the "stationary" clock)
You are as stupid as they come, a totally ignorant phuckwit.
I will not go away, I will hound you for the cretin you are.
Androcles.
.
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 02:26:59 PM |
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galsaba wrote:
Thanks!
I hear that there are people arguing now here (next office) about the
following:
"Which has higher torque the first gear on the car, or the fifth gear".
May be i can play smart...(if u give me the answer)
galsaba
Well, why don't you put it to an experimental test?
The torque applied to the wheels makes them turn and this accelerates
the car.
So try accelerating the car from a stop in 1st gear, and then try
accelerating the car from a stop in 5th gear. If your friends find it
unfair (for some reason) to accelerate from a stop in 5th gear, then
ask them to time how long it takes to accelerate from 0 mph to 20 mph
in 1st gear, and from 50 mph to 70 mph in 5th gear.
Now, to cement the idea in, it is known that a chimpanzee has about
four times the arm strength of a human, even though it has about 1/3
the muscle mass of a human. So who can throw a baseball faster: a human
or a chimpanzee, and why?
PD
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 07:51:55 PM |
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"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133468819.678741.253100@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
galsaba wrote:
Thanks!
I hear that there are people arguing now here (next office) about the
following:
"Which has higher torque the first gear on the car, or the fifth gear".
May be i can play smart...(if u give me the answer)
galsaba
Well, why don't you put it to an experimental test?
The torque applied to the wheels makes them turn and this accelerates
the car.
So try accelerating the car from a stop in 1st gear, and then try
accelerating the car from a stop in 5th gear. If your friends find it
unfair (for some reason) to accelerate from a stop in 5th gear, then
ask them to time how long it takes to accelerate from 0 mph to 20 mph
in 1st gear, and from 50 mph to 70 mph in 5th gear.
Now, to cement the idea in, it is known that a chimpanzee has about
four times the arm strength of a human, even though it has about 1/3
the muscle mass of a human. So who can throw a baseball faster: a human
or a chimpanzee, and why?
PD
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133428326.622627.173990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Androcles wrote:
But I never once claimed 0.5 s = 0.5 Hz, Phuckwit Duck. There was no
error
to acknowledge, you've fucked up.
and refused to remove the erroneous statement
from further discussion. Shake your stinkbait in front of someone who
notices you.
You are a *****, Phuckwit Duck. Cite where I said what you LIED I said.
Sure. It's recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq2.html
which of course followed an earlier post, echoing what you once said on
your ill-fated website, also recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq.html
I don't lie, Androcles. You do. Now go away.
PD
Let a clock emit a frequency of 1 Hz be moving relative to
an observer with velocity 0.866c
Comment:
Such a clock is supposed to tick at a lower rate as a result of it s
velocity.
The velocity chosen is such that gamma = 2.
Therefore the clock ticks 1 second for every 2 seconds of the "stationary"
reference clock.
Einstein's FUMBLE:
t-vx/c^2
t' = _______________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
ref (Electrodynamics, section 3)
Calculation:
= t * sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
= 1 * 0.5
= 0.5 seconds
= 1 tick per 2 seconds
Comment:
One second measured by the "moving" clock has duration two seconds
measured by the "stationary" clock. The "moving" clock is (supposedly)
running slow.
You lie, moortel lies.
0.5 seconds (measured by the "moving" clock)
is 0.5 Hz (measured by the "stationary" clock)
You are as stupid as they come, a totally ignorant phuckwit.
I will not go away, I will hound you for the chimpanzee you are.
Androcles.
.
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| User: "galsaba" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 02:39:09 PM |
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Chimpanzee. The moment (length x force) is bigger. Right?
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 02:51:03 PM |
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galsaba wrote:
Chimpanzee. The moment (length x force) is bigger. Right?
Human. Which is why you don't see chimps recruited to pitch for the
White Sox.
Think of your car jack. The power you put in equals the power the jack
exerts lifting the car. The power is the force x speed. At your end of
the jack, you don't supply much force, but your arm moves like crazy.
At the car end of the jack, the force is large, but the movement is
slow.
Same thing applies to bicycles. You shift into a lower gear to climb a
hill. Your legs don't have to push so hard, but they have to move like
crazy. At the other end of the chain, the wheel doesn't turn very fast,
but it supplies a lot of torque.
Same thing applies to chimp arms. The attachment point of the muscle is
further down on the forearm bone and so the chimp has a greater lever
arm, which for about the same arm muscle force can apply a greater
torque. But greater torque comes at the expense of lower speed, and so
the chimp can't move its arm as fast as we can.
And now you should be able to answer the question about car
transmissions. (Look at both ends of the transmission the same way you
look at both ends of the car jack and both ends of the bike chain.)
PD
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 07:52:35 PM |
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"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133470263.711197.190110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
galsaba wrote:
Chimpanzee. The moment (length x force) is bigger. Right?
Human. Which is why you don't see chimps recruited to pitch for the
White Sox.
Think of your car jack. The power you put in equals the power the jack
exerts lifting the car. The power is the force x speed. At your end of
the jack, you don't supply much force, but your arm moves like crazy.
At the car end of the jack, the force is large, but the movement is
slow.
Same thing applies to bicycles. You shift into a lower gear to climb a
hill. Your legs don't have to push so hard, but they have to move like
crazy. At the other end of the chain, the wheel doesn't turn very fast,
but it supplies a lot of torque.
Same thing applies to chimp arms. The attachment point of the muscle is
further down on the forearm bone and so the chimp has a greater lever
arm, which for about the same arm muscle force can apply a greater
torque. But greater torque comes at the expense of lower speed, and so
the chimp can't move its arm as fast as we can.
And now you should be able to answer the question about car
transmissions. (Look at both ends of the transmission the same way you
look at both ends of the car jack and both ends of the bike chain.)
PD
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133428326.622627.173990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Androcles wrote:
But I never once claimed 0.5 s = 0.5 Hz, Phuckwit Duck. There was no
error
to acknowledge, you've fucked up.
and refused to remove the erroneous statement
from further discussion. Shake your stinkbait in front of someone who
notices you.
You are a *****, Phuckwit Duck. Cite where I said what you LIED I said.
Sure. It's recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq2.html
which of course followed an earlier post, echoing what you once said on
your ill-fated website, also recorded for posterity:
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/TimeIsFreq.html
I don't lie, Androcles. You do. Now go away.
PD
Let a clock emit a frequency of 1 Hz be moving relative to
an observer with velocity 0.866c
Comment:
Such a clock is supposed to tick at a lower rate as a result of it s
velocity.
The velocity chosen is such that gamma = 2.
Therefore the clock ticks 1 second for every 2 seconds of the "stationary"
reference clock.
Einstein's FUMBLE:
t-vx/c^2
t' = _______________
sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
ref (Electrodynamics, section 3)
Calculation:
= t * sqrt(1-v^2/c^2)
= 1 * 0.5
= 0.5 seconds
= 1 tick per 2 seconds
Comment:
One second measured by the "moving" clock has duration two seconds
measured by the "stationary" clock. The "moving" clock is (supposedly)
running slow.
You lie, moortel lies.
0.5 seconds (measured by the "moving" clock)
is 0.5 Hz (measured by the "stationary" clock)
You are as stupid as they come, a totally ignorant phuckwit.
I will not go away, I will hound you for the lying ***** you are.
Androcles.
.
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 08:48:03 PM |
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Androcles wrote:
[snip]
You are as stupid as they come, a totally ignorant phuckwit.
I will not go away, I will hound you for the lying ***** you are.
Androcles.
You are so convinced you are correct, it is a conviction that borders
on fanatical. Complete with the belief you can do no wrong, and that
the end justify the means.
.
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| User: "Puppet_Sock" |
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| Title: Re: What are the units to measure belt tension |
01 Dec 2005 04:10:54 PM |
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galsaba wrote:
1. What are the units to measure a tension of a belt? are they pound?
or pound x inch (force x distance)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tension
Wikipedia is your friend.
Socks
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