| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
29 May 2005 06:07:49 PM |
| Object: |
What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
Nick:
Show me where General Relativity says that
light can't be *emitted* inside a black hole Twake.
It just says if they are they can't escape.
That's all.
Twake:
Ok, you express choice of words may be apt. Light can not escape a
black hole. Therefore we have no way of knowing if it is emitted or
not.
Nick:
It doesn't matter whether we could see it or not.
The GTR predicts it.
GR predicts matter radiating energyless light
in a black hole. starting at the event horizon.
How do you like that Twake?
.
|
|
| User: "Bilge" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 12:11:45 AM |
|
|
macromitch@internetCDS.com:
Nick:
Show me where General Relativity says that
Show me where it doesn't.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
29 May 2005 06:10:16 PM |
|
|
<macromitch@internetCDS.com> wrote in message
news:1117408069.890303.86200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Nick:
Show me where General Relativity says that
light can't be *emitted* inside a black hole Twake.
It just says if they are they can't escape.
That's all.
Twake:
Ok, you express choice of words may be apt. Light can not escape a
black hole. Therefore we have no way of knowing if it is emitted or
not.
Nick:
It doesn't matter whether we could see it or not.
The GTR predicts it.
GR predicts matter radiating energyless light
in a black hole. starting at the event horizon.
How do you like that Twake?
How do I like you starting a new thread? Fine thanks nick. Why do you do
that?
Can you show me where general relativity shows energyless light being
emitted at the event horizon please.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 02:13:56 AM |
|
|
"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:UvadnRrmjIxA1gffRVnyjA@pipex.net...
How do I like you starting a new thread? Fine thanks nick. Why do you do
that?
It's in his nature to run away from people winning by logic over faith as a
creationist.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "yt56erd" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
29 May 2005 07:01:36 PM |
|
|
T Wake wrote:
<macromitch@internetCDS.com> wrote in message
news:1117408069.890303.86200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Nick:
Show me where General Relativity says that
light can't be *emitted* inside a black hole Twake.
It just says if they are they can't escape.
That's all.
Twake:
Ok, you express choice of words may be apt. Light can not escape a
black hole. Therefore we have no way of knowing if it is emitted or
not.
Nick:
It doesn't matter whether we could see it or not.
The GTR predicts it.
GR predicts matter radiating energyless light
in a black hole. starting at the event horizon.
How do you like that Twake?
How do I like you starting a new thread? Fine thanks nick. Why do you do
that?
Can you show me where general relativity shows energyless light being
emitted at the event horizon please.
***** couldnt work out how to show you his underpants..............
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Baugh" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 12:30:28 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Nick:
Show me where General Relativity says that
light can't be *emitted* inside a black hole Twake.
It just says if they are they can't escape.
That's all.
Twake:
Ok, you express choice of words may be apt. Light can not escape a
black hole. Therefore we have no way of knowing if it is emitted or
not.
Nick:
It doesn't matter whether we could see it or not.
The GTR predicts it.
GR predicts matter radiating energyless light
in a black hole. starting at the event horizon.
How do you like that Twake?
With regard to light emissions inside a black hole. The predictions
of the theory only speak of what an observer inside the black hole would
see. Compare this the non-black-hole case of a prediction of what a
future observer will see for a future light emission.
The point is that the event horizion of a black hole is no different
in character than say the future light cone of some event point.
No signals originating inside that light cone can escape it, nonetheless
our theory extrapolates to the future including the future of a traveler
infalling into a black hole.
The fact is that if we are dedicated enough to knowing what he saw we
can follow him into the black hole and check. The prediction of what
will occur past the event horizion is still "valid" just as we assume
the laws of physics won't suddenly change in some dramatic fashion as we
cross some coordinate sheet defining a boundary between before and after
next sunday. We can't know this unless we are willing to cross that
threshold by judicious exercise of patience.
That's why we call it a prediction and not a fact.
--
Regards,
James Baugh
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 02:52:19 PM |
|
|
GR predicts an infinite redshift to light at the event horizon
of a black hole. This is well known. But is it reasonable?
The answer is no.
There would be a light wave emitted of an infinite size.
It would be energyless light.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 03:22:29 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117482739.441311.101130@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
GR predicts an infinite redshift to light at the event horizon
of a black hole. This is well known. But is it reasonable?
The answer is no.
There would be a light wave emitted of an infinite size.
It would be energyless light.
It is not well known.
Can you show me the formula you have used for this assumption or a citation
where I can check it out. There is no mileage in simply saying "everyone
knows" because, obviously I don't.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 03:33:01 PM |
|
|
It is well known.
Maybe you are not that educated?
Read Hawking.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 03:38:43 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117485181.748563.191520@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
It is well known.
Maybe you are not that educated?
Read Hawking.
That isn't an answer. If it is so well known then repost the formula used
here. I have both read Hawking's books and worked with him in person. I
don't see how that is relevant.
Maybe I am not that educated; if you are, you can educate me.
Show me the formula that you plugged the numbers in to get either an
infinite wavelength of photons with zero energy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 04:11:36 PM |
|
|
Educate yourself. That's what I do!
You don't know the cause of the Einstein shift?
No wonder.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 04:16:59 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117487496.371328.186700@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Educate yourself. That's what I do!
You don't know the cause of the Einstein shift?
No wonder.
No, Nick. You are failing to educate yourself. My education says you are
wrong and you don't agree with me. I have stated my position and provided
any required theoretical information to you - now its your turn.
You show me the theoretical data you are using.and convince me I am wrong.
If you cant do this, well, it shows you either:
A - have no idea what you are talking about and are making things up as you
go along
B - are repeating something your catamite has told you as pillow talk and
you are too shy to ask for clarification.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 04:23:01 PM |
|
|
T Wake wrote:
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117487496.371328.186700@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Educate yourself. That's what I do!
You don't know the cause of the Einstein shift?
No wonder.
No, Nick. You are failing to educate yourself. My education says you are
wrong
half of what you have learned is wrong. The other half right.
The problem is you don't know which is which.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 04:24:42 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117488181.606196.94100@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
half of what you have learned is wrong. The other half right.
The problem is you don't know which is which.
Another outstanding philosophical insight from you Nick.
I will give you the benefit of the doubt and agree with your sentence.
However, the difference between you and I, is that at least half of what I
have learned is right. You have learned little, and what you have learned is
wrong.
This is a shame.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 04:28:10 PM |
|
|
I am not a learner. I am a discoverer.
Books can only take you so far. After that something
else must happen.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 04:35:56 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117488490.519858.94550@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I am not a learner. I am a discoverer.
Books can only take you so far. After that something
else must happen.
You have the partly correct. You are not a learner.
To discover something new, you must first fully understand all that has gone
before. If not, you are the same as the 10 year old child who looks into
space and things they "understand" how the universe ticks.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 05:04:59 PM |
|
|
You don't have an original thought in your head
You haven't went beyond your education.
Show me where I am wrong.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 05:20:04 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117490699.509535.300020@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
You don't have an original thought in your head
You haven't went beyond your education.
Show me where I am wrong.
You don't have a thought in your head, much less an original one.
You want to know where you are wrong? Try this for starters:
"You haven't went beyond your education."
^^^^
Should read "gone."
However, games like that aside, I have gone beyond my education. I spent
three years doing a research degree.
Now, that is twice I have shown you where you are wrong and still, not once,
have you answered a question. Very poor show Nick.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 05:27:08 PM |
|
|
I can show you an original thought.
Show me one.
Back it up wake. I will.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 05:33:03 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117492028.341216.202200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I can show you an original thought.
Show me one.
Back it up wake. I will.
I have done several times. You wont ever support your arguments because you
have none. It is beyond the point where I need to justify anything to you.
However, I am not planning to go to bed anytime soon (tomorrow being a day
off) so here goes:
Before a pride of lions sets off on a night hunt, they all gather together
and the lion makes fairly quiet growling noises to the lionesses. General
wisdom is that this is to reassure them. However, I think it is the lion
letting them know the plan of attack for the night - after the growls
finish, the lions get up and do a hunt, in the dark, silently.
Is that original enough for you? I have lots more. For example, I think it
is possible to educate you. That is pretty original.
Your turn Nick. Show me where the orthodoxy of science is wrong, and you,
the self taught genius, is right. Show me your wonderful theory that
combines everything that went before and makes testable predictions for the
future.
Bring it on Nick. I am waiting.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 05:46:03 PM |
|
|
T Wake wrote:
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117492028.341216.202200@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I can show you an original thought.
Show me one.
Back it up wake. I will.
I have done several times.
Can you show me another? Apparently you have more than enough. I will
show you mine.
Show me your wonderful theory that
combines everything that went before and makes testable predictions for the
future.
Bring it on Nick. I am waiting.
Its limited gravity theory.
I don't have to argue my theory. All I have to do
is show that GR's predictions are wrong.
My theory follows from there.
Is that enough for you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 05:49:31 PM |
|
|
<macromitch@internetCDS.com> wrote in message
news:1117493163.064694.147240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Can you show me another? Apparently you have more than enough. I will
show you mine.
I showed you two then. This reminds me of being back at infants school. Are
you really 6 years old?
Its limited gravity theory.
I don't have to argue my theory. All I have to do
is show that GR's predictions are wrong.
My theory follows from there.
Is that enough for you?
No, it isn't. And you do have to argue your theory. Showing GRs predictions
are wrong will require experimental evidence you are never going to be able
to produce. As that is the case, you need to explain your theory and why it
is better ("more elegant" is the current phrase of the month).
Can you at least show me your predictions? Can you show me how your theory
covers all the currently observed experimental data?
If you can do this Nick, I promise you I will take a 180 degree about face
on my opinions of you.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 05:57:52 PM |
|
|
The principle behind my predictions is that
time never ends. Like Hawking said GR predicts
its own downfall by predicting singularities.
Singularities are an end to time -- infinite space-time
curvature.
What Hawking missed is that in GR there is
another place time ends. That is where there
is an infinite Einstein shift.
There are no event horizons. That's my prediction.
No event horizons.
Do you want more?
I'll bring it on.
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 06:11:40 PM |
|
|
<macromitch@internetCDS.com> wrote in message
news:1117493872.181471.161140@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The principle behind my predictions is that
time never ends. Like Hawking said GR predicts
its own downfall by predicting singularities.
Singularities are an end to time -- infinite space-time
curvature.
What Hawking missed is that in GR there is
another place time ends. That is where there
is an infinite Einstein shift.
There are no event horizons. That's my prediction.
No event horizons.
Do you want more?
I'll bring it on.
OK, now we are getting on much better. I am not doubting your theory and
will give you the benefit of it being true and accurate, however we need to
see about getting it from "idea" status to "theory" status. I am good at
mathematics so if you wish I will convert any formula you need to use into
real values or vice versa.
First off, we need to set it up so it is scientific. This means it needs to
be testable. Saying there are "no event horizons" is not ever testable. Can
you come up with something more specific? Without a testable prediction, the
theory is dead in the water and consigned to the world of "beliefs."
Also, I am still lost on the "infinite Einstein Shift" bit. Can you give me
a cast iron reference to it and I will show you how to model it for your new
theory of gravity?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 07:01:41 PM |
|
|
If you are lost on the Einstein shift. Just look at
the other prediction. Matter falling at light speed.
These predictions go hand in hand.
Freefall has to be limited.
Also I believe weight; the other guage of gravity's strength
will be limited. This is accomplished by removing the Rate
from Einstein's Equivalence principle.
I know I am not going to be the one
to put the theory into mathematics.
Seeing what others haven't is enough for me.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 07:04:26 PM |
|
|
Its not science's job to prove a theory. It can only disprove it.
Seeing the faulty predictions of GR in the case of black holes comes
first.
Can you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 07:26:24 PM |
|
|
<macromitch@internetCDS.com> wrote in message
news:1117497866.599598.22070@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Its not science's job to prove a theory. It can only disprove it.
Seeing the faulty predictions of GR in the case of black holes comes
first.
Can you?
Not at the moment. I have never seen an experiment based on a GR prediction
fail to support GR. I am open minded though. Can you prove me wrong?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
30 May 2005 07:33:34 PM |
|
|
Yes, that is because our principle place for observing whether its
predictions are right is in the weak field of the
solar system.
The predictions I am talking about are in stronger gravity.
And most notably show up at the very extreme.
Addition of velocties in freefall is an example.
.
|
|
|
| User: "yt56erd" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
31 May 2005 05:44:31 AM |
|
|
wrote:
Yes, that is because our principle place for observing whether its
predictions are right is in the weak field of the
solar system.
The predictions I am talking about are in stronger gravity.
And most notably show up at the very extreme.
Addition of velocties in freefall is an example.
weak field? crackpot.
so your predictions are untestable until we can survive in a black hole
then? crank. if your theory is valid, it is valid at all points. show
your math.
T Wake dont encourage the crank.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
31 May 2005 07:56:41 PM |
|
|
We need to look for the strongest field we can find.
But it doesn't matter the GR theory already predicts
its downfall. We know its wrong. Its only an approximation
to a better theory.
You can't argue with now can you?
.
|
|
|
| User: "T Wake" |
|
| Title: Re: What does the theory say? What does it predict? |
01 Jun 2005 01:59:13 PM |
|
|
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1117587400.955599.110290@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
We need to look for the strongest field we can find.
But it doesn't matter the GR theory already predicts
its downfall. We know its wrong. Its only an approximation
to a better theory.
You can't argue with now can you?
Are you trying to talk about the strong force here? Or do you have a
superunification theory?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
