| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
17 Jan 2005 05:07:57 PM |
| Object: |
What if the Nazis had kindness? |
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
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| User: "Thomas Nordhaus" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
17 Jan 2005 05:24:03 PM |
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Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> schrieb:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
Mhmm - Sorry, I don't think that equation can be solved analytically.
Best approach would be to use some sort of numerical algorithm.
Thomas
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| User: "Bob Stephens" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 09:41:00 AM |
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:24:03 +0100, Thomas Nordhaus wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> schrieb:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
Mhmm - Sorry, I don't think that equation can be solved analytically.
Best approach would be to use some sort of numerical algorithm.
Thomas
either that or (T)roll another joint...
Bob
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| User: "Thomas Nordhaus" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 11:00:16 AM |
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Bob Stephens <stephensyomamadigital@earthlink.net> schrieb:
On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 00:24:03 +0100, Thomas Nordhaus wrote:
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> schrieb:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
Mhmm - Sorry, I don't think that equation can be solved analytically.
Best approach would be to use some sort of numerical algorithm.
Thomas
either that or (T)roll another joint...
Hey, come on - why so hostile? This was posted to a math-NG, so a
mathematical answer should be in order (Question is what the question
was - but that's another problem).
Thomas
Bob
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| User: "Ari" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
20 Jan 2005 06:51:30 PM |
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"Gactimus" <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote in message news:hzXGd.29025$Xs6.19305@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Were you a writer for "Seinfeld"?
Aristotle Polonium
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
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| User: "Michael Mendelsohn" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
17 Jan 2005 06:19:52 PM |
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Gactimus schrieb:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
What if noone replied to trolling crossposts?
Cheers
Michael
--
Still an attentive ear he lent Her speech hath caused this pain
But could not fathom what she meant Easier I count it to explain
She was not deep, nor eloquent. The jargon of the howling main
-- from Lewis Carroll: The Three Usenet Trolls
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 01:49:44 AM |
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Gactimus the idiot wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Kind nazis wouldn't have built the bomb.
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
You misspelled heroic resistance of the Russians and British you
revisionistic imbecile.
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they
would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
What kindnes do you mean? Kindness as in telling those about to be
gassed that they were getting a licing shower? What is your fucking
problem with the defeat of the nazis anyway idiot?
p.s. Can anybody tell me, is this thread subject to Godwin's law?
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
17 Jan 2005 07:05:30 PM |
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Gactimus wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb.
No, smart Nazis would have had two classes of Jews - privileged
Reichjuden and furnace feed. After the war, economy of consolidation
could have proceeded. Letting Houdry (and Houdry catalyst) out of
France into America was a terrible strategic error. Ditto Fermi,
Szilard, von Neumann... most of the Manhattan Project slipped through
their fingers.
If Japan had kept it in its pants for anther year, Europe would have
fallen and been united. England would have sued for peace. Russia
would have been corked. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. would have brokered an
American/German peace agreement. We would have had Homeland Severity
50 years earlier and a whole lot fewer niggers bottom line.
[snip crap]
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Tonico" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 12:29:42 AM |
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Aha...and if my grandma had two wheels she'd probably be a
bicycle...but she hasn't, Japan attacked, Germany declared war on USA,
the good ones won, the bad ones got screwed and THAT was
happened...*sigh*...so simple.
Tonico
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| User: "Richard the Dreaded Libertarian" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
19 Jan 2005 10:33:33 AM |
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:29:42 -0800, Tonico wrote:
Aha...and if my grandma had two wheels she'd probably be a
bicycle...but she hasn't, Japan attacked, Germany declared war on USA,
the good ones won, the bad ones got screwed and THAT was
happened...*sigh*...so simple.
Tonico
Except that the bad ones reincarnated as the neocons.
In answer to your question, if they had had kindness, they wouldn't have
been nazis, simple as that.
Thanks,
Rich
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| User: "Prai Jei" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 01:05:55 PM |
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Tonico (or somebody else of the same name) wrote thusly in message
<1106029782.944315.119850@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>:
Aha...and if my grandma had two wheels she'd probably be a
bicycle...but she hasn't, Japan attacked, Germany declared war on USA,
the good ones won, the bad ones got screwed and THAT was
happened...*sigh*...so simple.
Tonico
Suppose Germany had declared war on Japan and the USA became Germany's ally?
--
Paul Townsend
Pair them off into threes
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 09:43:31 AM |
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The swiss would have been first with a nuke then. Einstein would have
not went east .
If not fo a few near misshaps , nazis would have had the deadwater to
make a bomb.
now fear the smasher.
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| User: "Mark Fergerson" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 10:30:37 AM |
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Uncle Al wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb.
No, smart Nazis would have had two classes of Jews - privileged
Reichjuden and furnace feed. After the war, economy of consolidation
could have proceeded. Letting Houdry (and Houdry catalyst) out of
France into America was a terrible strategic error. Ditto Fermi,
Szilard, von Neumann... most of the Manhattan Project slipped through
their fingers.
Hitler was too arrogant (or stupid) to follow the Roman model's
details. Specifically, in according levels of citizenship with
concomittant levels of privileges. Top-down government works if you keep
the brutality down.
If Japan had kept it in its pants for anther year, Europe would have
fallen and been united. England would have sued for peace. Russia
would have been corked. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. would have brokered an
American/German peace agreement. We would have had Homeland Severity
50 years earlier and a whole lot fewer niggers bottom line.
Hitler should have detailed Japan to "pacify" Asia and Italy to
"pacifying" the Mediterranean, while "pacifying" us with cheap iron,
oil, etc.
But then, while the Cold War wouldn't have happened, WWIII would have
about thirty years ago. I strongly suspect we'd have lost.
<wipes forehead> Whew!
Mark L. Fergerson
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 01:18:44 AM |
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Uncle Al wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb.
No, smart Nazis would have had two classes of Jews - privileged
Reichjuden and furnace feed. After the war, economy of consolidation
could have proceeded. Letting Houdry (and Houdry catalyst) out of
France into America was a terrible strategic error. Ditto Fermi,
Szilard, von Neumann... most of the Manhattan Project slipped through
their fingers.
If Japan had kept it in its pants for anther year, Europe would have
fallen and been united. England would have sued for peace. Russia
would have been corked. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. would have brokered an
American/German peace agreement. We would have had Homeland Severity
50 years earlier and a whole lot fewer niggers bottom line.
I remember you telling proudly how your father was among the liberators
of europe, I sometimes find your lack of disgust at everything nazi
very disconcerting. Anyway you seem to read too much Harris, keep to
the sciences at which you excel, your history isn't really that good.
"Zapatero a tus zapatos", (ask your gardner if you don't understand) or
try the German Wersion in case he has got his day off "Schuster bleib
bei deinen Leisten".
Regards
p.s. I take much delight in your "history of french warfare" though.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 03:36:50 PM |
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"guenther.vonKnakspott@gmx.de" wrote:
Uncle Al wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb.
No, smart Nazis would have had two classes of Jews - privileged
Reichjuden and furnace feed. After the war, economy of consolidation
could have proceeded. Letting Houdry (and Houdry catalyst) out of
France into America was a terrible strategic error. Ditto Fermi,
Szilard, von Neumann... most of the Manhattan Project slipped through
their fingers.
If Japan had kept it in its pants for anther year, Europe would have
fallen and been united. England would have sued for peace. Russia
would have been corked. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. would have brokered an
American/German peace agreement. We would have had Homeland Severity
50 years earlier and a whole lot fewer niggers bottom line.
I remember you telling proudly how your father was among the liberators
of europe, I sometimes find your lack of disgust at everything nazi
very disconcerting. Anyway you seem to read too much Harris, keep to
the sciences at which you excel, your history isn't really that good.
"Zapatero a tus zapatos", (ask your gardner if you don't understand) or
try the German Wersion in case he has got his day off "Schuster bleib
bei deinen Leisten".
Regards
p.s. I take much delight in your "history of french warfare" though.
Nuremberg was inevitable. Who sat in the docket and who on the bench
was arbitrary. The hisotric outcome is not displeasing to me. More
to the point, US occupation forces went absolutely apeshit tracing
down German industrial and military scientists and confiscating patent
rights. WWII was hardly about social issues. It was about economics
- Gemany held all the cards as the US was nationally industrializing.
We went in and took it all. Russia in Eastern Europe made it
political again. That end of the world was a giant FUBAR.
Is Iraq's outcome of consequence? Of course not. It plays well
either and all ways. Absolute political conquest, absolute economic
scorched Earth, and then colonial abandonment is the US way to go. It
can be done at gunpoint or it can be done with democracy, mortgages,
and nylons (re the Marhsall Plan after WWII). The Japanese were
tractable to consumerist luxury. Even the French were tolerably in on
the game if distasteful in their grudging acquiescence. Muslims are
culturally fucking stupid. Kill them all and get on with it.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "John Schoenfeld" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
19 Jan 2005 12:09:10 PM |
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Uncle Al wrote:
"guenther.vonKnakspott@gmx.de" wrote:
Uncle Al wrote:
Gactimus wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb.
No, smart Nazis would have had two classes of Jews - privileged
Reichjuden and furnace feed. After the war, economy of
consolidation
could have proceeded. Letting Houdry (and Houdry catalyst) out
of
France into America was a terrible strategic error. Ditto Fermi,
Szilard, von Neumann... most of the Manhattan Project slipped
through
their fingers.
If Japan had kept it in its pants for anther year, Europe would
have
fallen and been united. England would have sued for peace.
Russia
would have been corked. Joseph P. Kennedy Sr. would have
brokered an
American/German peace agreement. We would have had Homeland
Severity
50 years earlier and a whole lot fewer niggers bottom line.
I remember you telling proudly how your father was among the
liberators
of europe, I sometimes find your lack of disgust at everything nazi
very disconcerting. Anyway you seem to read too much Harris, keep
to
the sciences at which you excel, your history isn't really that
good.
"Zapatero a tus zapatos", (ask your gardner if you don't
understand) or
try the German Wersion in case he has got his day off "Schuster
bleib
bei deinen Leisten".
Regards
p.s. I take much delight in your "history of french warfare"
though.
Nuremberg was inevitable. Who sat in the docket and who on the bench
was arbitrary. The hisotric outcome is not displeasing to me. More
to the point, US occupation forces went absolutely apeshit tracing
down German industrial and military scientists and confiscating
patent
rights. WWII was hardly about social issues. It was about economics
- Gemany held all the cards as the US was nationally industrializing.
We went in and took it all. Russia in Eastern Europe made it
political again. That end of the world was a giant FUBAR.
Is Iraq's outcome of consequence? Of course not. It plays well
either and all ways. Absolute political conquest, absolute economic
scorched Earth, and then colonial abandonment is the US way to go.
It
can be done at gunpoint or it can be done with democracy, mortgages,
and nylons (re the Marhsall Plan after WWII). The Japanese were
tractable to consumerist luxury. Even the French were tolerably in
on
the game if distasteful in their grudging acquiescence. Muslims are
culturally fucking stupid. Kill them all and get on with it.
Is it coincidence that the philosophy of determinism was being
abandoned in favour of a non-deterministic one simultaneously as Hitler
and his war marchine churned on?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Scott Stephens" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 03:26:15 AM |
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Gactimus wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
You want to know? Look at Joey Stalin. Hitler was a totalitarian
dictator, as was Joe Stalin. From what I've heard, some Jews assisted
Stalin (NKVD) in persecuting other ethnic minorities and rounding up
10's of millions to slave and die in the gulag. But other Jews were
persecuted by other communists.
When Stalin was just about to purge Jews in the 50's, he got sick and
died. No doubt his Jewish doctor was overjoyed, if not implicated =)
The moral of the story is, it ain't about labels, its about gang warfare
for the political power to dominate, degrade, tax and enslave others.
Nevermind what letters are assigned to the variable (gang) names,
examine the relationship between them when analyzing a social plasma.
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| User: "Jim Ward" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
19 Jan 2005 09:34:08 PM |
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If the Nazis had kindness, they would've invented the KareBear.
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| User: "John Fields" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
17 Jan 2005 05:17:02 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:07:57 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the British
in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And while they would
not have won they would have concluded a beneficial peace treaty.
---
Kind Nazis would never have started their ***** in the first place.
--
John Fields
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| User: "David Kastrup" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
17 Jan 2005 05:30:07 PM |
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John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> writes:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:07:57 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb. Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the
British in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And
while they would not have won they would have concluded a beneficial
peace treaty.
---
Kind Nazis would never have started their ***** in the first place.
Oh, they didn't start fascism or antisemitism or racism or
warmongering or nationalism. Europe was full of all of that,
everywhere (remember the Dreifuss affair in France?). But they
definitely took them to unprecedented heights.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
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| User: "David Ames" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
19 Jan 2005 07:08:32 PM |
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David Kastrup wrote:
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> writes:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 23:07:57 GMT, Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net>
wrote:
Kind Nazis could have got the Jews to help them with the bomb.
Kind
Nazis would have got far more Russian collaborators and perhaps not
have inspired the stubborn resistance of the Russians and the
British in WWII. "Kindness" might have made the difference. And
while they would not have won they would have concluded a
beneficial
peace treaty.
---
Kind Nazis would never have started their ***** in the first place.
Oh, they didn't start fascism or antisemitism or racism or
warmongering or nationalism. Europe was full of all of that,
everywhere (remember the Dreifuss affair in France?). But they
definitely took them to unprecedented heights.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
What tbe Nazis started was anti-Bolshevism (as the Germans called it)
or anti-Communism. To that purpose they enlisted anti-Semitism (or
racism, by defining not only the Slavs but also the Jews as a race) and
nationalism by asserting their racial and national interests against
other nations' interests. I believe fascism is properly defined in
economic terms, but if you want to define it in political terms, that
is fine with me too.
Kind family Nazis did not start this political rumpus. It was unkind
political Nazis, at the top of the food chain, who did.
David Ames
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| User: "David Kastrup" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
20 Jan 2005 02:33:28 AM |
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"David Ames" <worldrecord@juno.com> writes:
David Kastrup wrote:
John Fields <jfields@austininstruments.com> writes:
Kind Nazis would never have started their ***** in the first place.
Oh, they didn't start fascism or antisemitism or racism or
warmongering or nationalism. Europe was full of all of that,
everywhere (remember the Dreifuss affair in France?). But they
definitely took them to unprecedented heights.
What tbe Nazis started was anti-Bolshevism (as the Germans called
it) or anti-Communism. To that purpose they enlisted anti-Semitism
(or racism, by defining not only the Slavs but also the Jews as a
race) and nationalism by asserting their racial and national
interests against other nations' interests. I believe fascism is
properly defined in economic terms, but if you want to define it in
political terms, that is fine with me too.
Kind family Nazis did not start this political rumpus. It was
unkind political Nazis, at the top of the food chain, who did.
There is no top of the food chain without a supporting bottom. If a
megalomaniac Austrian that would not get taken seriously in his own
country is able to get into the position of head of state by playing
the strong man with the iron fist... good thing people don't fall for
stuff like that any more.
--
David Kastrup, Kriemhildstr. 15, 44793 Bochum
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| User: "Reg Edwards" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
17 Jan 2005 08:41:43 PM |
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Nazi soldiers were kind, considerate, loving sons, husbands and fathers,
just like other nationalities.
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| User: "Paul Burridge" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 06:32:54 AM |
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On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 02:41:43 +0000 (UTC), "Reg Edwards"
<g4fgq.regp@ZZZbtinternet.com> wrote:
Nazi soldiers were kind, considerate, loving sons, husbands and fathers,
just like other nationalities.
Indeed. It's a pity the term has attained such pejorative connotations
over the years. A Nazi was simply a German National Socialist. Being
nasty wasn't a requirement to join the party. The Liberal bigots who
cast it around as a term of abuse could use some education on the
subject!
--
"What is now proved was once only imagin'd." - William Blake, 1793.
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| User: "John Savard" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 12:20:23 PM |
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On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:17:02 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote, in part:
Kind Nazis would never have started their ***** in the first place.
Well, the Kaiser went and started a war against the rest of Europe
without persecuting Jews.
John Savard
http://home.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/index.html
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| User: "John Woodgate" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
18 Jan 2005 12:29:15 PM |
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I read in sci.electronics.design that John Savard <jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAM
b.cdn.invalid> wrote (in <41ed5348.1504015@news.ecn.ab.ca>) about 'What
if the Nazis had kindness?', on Tue, 18 Jan 2005:
On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 17:17:02 -0600, John Fields
<jfields@austininstruments.com> wrote, in part:
Kind Nazis would never have started their ***** in the first place.
Well, the Kaiser went and started a war against the rest of Europe
without persecuting Jews.
....any more than they were being persecuted in other European countries
at that time.
--
Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
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| User: "Shmuel Seymour J. Metz" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
20 Jan 2005 01:39:59 PM |
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In <41ed5348.1504015@news.ecn.ab.ca>, on 01/18/2005
at 06:20 PM, jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) said:
Well, the Kaiser went and started a war against the rest of Europe
without persecuting Jews.
I'd hardly call WW I kind, nor is it clear that he started it. Wasn't
the root cause a series of mutual-defense treaties that left no room
for maneuver? "Diplomacy is too important to be left to the
diplomats."
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT <http://patriot.net/~shmuel>
Unsolicited bulk E-mail subject to legal action. I reserve the
right to publicly post or ridicule any abusive E-mail. Reply to
domain Patriot dot net user shmuel+news to contact me. Do not
reply to
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
20 Jan 2005 06:13:49 PM |
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In article <41f00910$16$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>, "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
In <41ed5348.1504015@news.ecn.ab.ca>, on 01/18/2005
at 06:20 PM, jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) said:
Well, the Kaiser went and started a war against the rest of Europe
without persecuting Jews.
I'd hardly call WW I kind, nor is it clear that he started it. Wasn't
the root cause a series of mutual-defense treaties that left no room
for maneuver? "Diplomacy is too important to be left to the
diplomats."
heck, no. The idea that just because you've signed a treaty stating
that in situation X you'll do Y, then, if situation X arises, you
actually have to do Y, is a naive belief having little to do with
historical evidence. France had a mutual defense treaty with
Chechoslovakia, in 1938. So? European histroy of the past few
centuries is full of examples of treaties made, then disregarded when
not convenient.
The root cause of WWI was the fact that nearly everybody wanted it,
for various reasons. Germany felt that its standing in European and
world affairs is not quite commensurate with its population, economic
and military might and was determined to "correct the balance" (and,
it was worried that once the Russian modernization process which was
already underway will get into high gear, the combination of France
and Russia will be too much for Germany to handle). France wanted
Alsace and Lorraigne (sp?) back. Both Russia and the Austro-Hungarian
Empire though that war may distract the attention of their populace
from internal problems. Italy (which wasn't really obliged to
anything) had some territorial accounts to settle with Austria. With
the possible exception of britain, the European powers not only didn't
wish to avoid a war but were actively courting one, viewing it not as
a grim necessity but as a glorious opportunity.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Dirk Bruere at Neopax" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
30 Jan 2005 12:44:38 PM |
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wrote:
In article <41f00910$16$fuzhry+tra$mr2ice@news.patriot.net>, "Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz" <spamtrap@library.lspace.org.invalid> writes:
In <41ed5348.1504015@news.ecn.ab.ca>, on 01/18/2005
at 06:20 PM, jsavard@excxn.aNOSPAMb.cdn.invalid (John Savard) said:
Well, the Kaiser went and started a war against the rest of Europe
without persecuting Jews.
I'd hardly call WW I kind, nor is it clear that he started it. Wasn't
the root cause a series of mutual-defense treaties that left no room
for maneuver? "Diplomacy is too important to be left to the
diplomats."
heck, no. The idea that just because you've signed a treaty stating
that in situation X you'll do Y, then, if situation X arises, you
actually have to do Y, is a naive belief having little to do with
historical evidence. France had a mutual defense treaty with
Chechoslovakia, in 1938. So? European histroy of the past few
centuries is full of examples of treaties made, then disregarded when
not convenient.
The root cause of WWI was the fact that nearly everybody wanted it,
for various reasons. Germany felt that its standing in European and
world affairs is not quite commensurate with its population, economic
and military might and was determined to "correct the balance" (and,
it was worried that once the Russian modernization process which was
already underway will get into high gear, the combination of France
and Russia will be too much for Germany to handle). France wanted
Alsace and Lorraigne (sp?) back. Both Russia and the Austro-Hungarian
Empire though that war may distract the attention of their populace
from internal problems. Italy (which wasn't really obliged to
anything) had some territorial accounts to settle with Austria. With
the possible exception of britain, the European powers not only didn't
wish to avoid a war but were actively courting one, viewing it not as
a grim necessity but as a glorious opportunity.
Then there is the railway timetable theory.
Namely, that once mobilisation commenced it could not be stopped because of the
logistical problems of restarting it if things went wrong again.
--
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
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| User: "vonroach" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
30 Jan 2005 08:41:03 PM |
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On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:44:38 +0000, Dirk Bruere at Neopax
<dirk@neopax.com> wrote:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
..
You guys kidding? A `kind' German? That's an oxymoron.
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: What if the Nazis had kindness? |
30 Jan 2005 08:40:47 PM |
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vonroach wrote:
On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 18:44:38 +0000, Dirk Bruere at Neopax
<dirk@neopax.com> wrote:
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
..
You guys kidding? A `kind' German? That's an oxymoron.
There were actually 11 kind and decent Germans in Nazi Germany during
the war. I don't know if any of them survived, however.
Bob Kolker
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