| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Timothy Law" |
| Date: |
23 Jan 2005 08:16:29 PM |
| Object: |
what is faster than light? |
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
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| User: "Martin Hogbin" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 03:21:10 AM |
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"Timothy Law" <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
There are plenty of things that go faster than light but none
of them involves either matter or information going faster
than light.
Have a look at the physics FAQ:
http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~dkoks/Faq/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.html
Martin Hogbin
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 02:39:05 AM |
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"Timothy Law" <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Schrödingers cat perhaps - eg spooky action at a distance - but does that
count as a "thing".
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 01:43:44 AM |
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"Timothy Law" <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Yes any of very many kinds of phase velocity.
The waves in a waveguide, for instance, have a phase velocity larger
than that of light.
Franz
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| User: "Greysky" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 01:23:35 AM |
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"Timothy Law" <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Check out:
www.allocations.cc
Learn how to build a FTL radio.
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| User: "Old Man" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 01:24:10 AM |
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"Timothy Law" <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
One event follows another because causality runs
no faster than the speed of light. Time and location
are covariant but the order of causally related events
is invariant.
[Old Man]
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 08:17:27 AM |
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"Timothy Law" <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Yes. Light itself, for one thing.
There is nothing to prevent one ray of light passing another. When we
observe this we get confused, but it really happens.
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/actual_data.htm
Androcles
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 04:05:15 PM |
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"Androcles" <dummy@dummy.net> wrote in message
news:Xr7Jd.10080$2b6.9347@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Timothy Law" <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Yes. Light itself, for one thing.
There is nothing to prevent one ray of light passing another. When
we
observe this we get confused, but it really happens.
http://www.androc1es.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/actual_data.htm
The phase speed of light can exceed c in free space only at
wavelengths on the favourable side of an anomalous dispersion region.
That URL of Androclown is pure horse manure and has been discredited
umpteen times in this ng. It is quite unnecesary to do so yet again.
What is this irrepressible urge of Androclown to keep presenting
himself for more ridicule?
Franz
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 08:59:53 AM |
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Androcles wrote:
Yes. Light itself, for one thing.
Cite reproducible data!
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| User: "Pendito" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 11:37:19 AM |
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Depends on whether you believe Relativity theories are correct,
incorrect, or somewhere in between.
Personally I believe there are things that are faster - yet if they are
we can not detect them by any current method. Maybe we should
investigate the ELF and EHF bands.
At what velocity will a photon impact with the singularity of a black
hole? If the photon spirals into the gravity well it should gain
velocity ...
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 04:05:16 PM |
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"Pendito" <rdp2@pnetmail.co.za> wrote in message
news:1106588239.251368.93600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Depends on whether you believe Relativity theories are correct,
incorrect, or somewhere in between.
SR has been subjected to hundreds of thousands of tests in the past
century and had always come out with flying colours, so you may apply
it with reasonable certainty to your next problem, provided that you
stick to the domain of validity of the theory.
Personally I believe there are things that are faster
Your beliefs are of no interest to the rest of the world.
- yet if they are
we can not detect them by any current method.
That is horse dung. The phase speed of an EM wave in a rectangular
waveguide supporting a TE01 wave is routinely measured by RF
engineers. It is larger than c
Maybe we should
investigate the ELF and EHF bands.
At what velocity will a photon impact with the singularity of a
black
hole?
If the photon spirals into the gravity well it should gain
velocity ...
Why should it spiral rather than orbit, and why should its speed
increase?
Franz
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| User: "glbrad01" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
25 Jan 2005 09:43:46 AM |
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"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct3res$87f$5@hercules.btinternet.com...
(snip)
That is horse dung. The phase speed of an EM wave in a rectangular
waveguide supporting a TE01 wave is routinely measured by RF
engineers. It is larger than c
(snip)
Franz
No it isn't. Not unless the engineers and the instrumentation themselves
somehow got out ahead of time itself. The measurement itself is
information...concerning information. Information only exists only as it is
transmitted. If the value is larger than c, and it is not prismed or in some
other manner given an illusion only of faster than light, then we have a new
value for the speed of light and time's leading edge timing. The old value
would have to have somekind of problem concerning interfering medium however
consistent it had appeared to be.
The speed of light zeroes time at it. Though you seem not to (among so
many), you should know what that means. I myself have presented several
times cases of the illusion of faster than light and the specific reason why
the speed of light, c, can never be surpassed (need not be surpassed no
matter if a velocity, v, is indistinguishable from infinite).
Brad
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| User: "glbrad01" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
25 Jan 2005 07:06:47 AM |
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"Pendito" <rdp2@pnetmail.co.za> wrote in message
news:1106588239.251368.93600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Depends on whether you believe Relativity theories are correct,
incorrect, or somewhere in between.
Personally I believe there are things that are faster - yet if they are
we can not detect them by any current method. Maybe we should
investigate the ELF and EHF bands.
At what velocity will a photon impact with the singularity of a black
hole? If the photon spirals into the gravity well it should gain
velocity ...
Nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. The speed of light
relative to an observer that is. One second in time is one second in time,
the same one second whether it is one light second of distance and its
equivalent unit of distance in space or one second of time advancement for
someone sitting in some armchair in their home on Earth. You can start
dealing in such factors as [per seconds per seconds] which starts altering
the picture without ever changing the length of one second in time.
You can drop the speed of light factor "c" altogether and deal in time as
histories (past-futures) tied to a virtuality of space rather than the
reality. By that I mean moons, planets, stars, galaxies, all are "light
seconds" to "light years" in distance from you. Nothing that can ever be
observed but histories in a virtual space field, thus as elastically pliable
as elastically pliable can get to physically travel to real space, real
time, [simultaneously existing with Earth] sources of those histories
which--again--are all you can or will ever observe from a distance.
Just as all you can observe of other celestial bodies from Earth is their
histories, on any other celestial body in the Universe all you can observe
of Earth and its Sun is them ran backward in time to some slight to great
degree behind the real space, real time, reality of either. Thus you would
have to virtual space-time travel forward to the [always simultaneously
existing with you] real.
Regarding the Theories of Relativity, space travel is all but impossible.
Virtual space-time travel though is a breeze.
Light has no mass at all. It is massless. It is no barrier to travel. You
don't travel the "light" in light-time, you travel the "time" (past
(histories)-future to [simultaneously existing with you] reals).
Gravity is all pervasive throughout space, being indistinguishable from
"aether medium." But with gravity automatically comes things called
"Lagrange points," equally all pervasive throughout space whether stable or
transitory, whether macro- or micro-. Infinities of Lagrange points:
infinities in magnitude. You don't travel space (all but impossible in
Relativity) you travel Lagrange point infinities (as if you were transiting
"wormholes" within "wormholes").
The above is strictly the way I see it. Strictly my opinion (just one of
the infinity of alternative universes--uncurled--"superstring theory"
predicts). One of an infinity of alternatives to "Uncle Al"'s universe (I
see as so impossibly relativistic and apocalyptic as to be the very
incarnation of a totalitarian Hell impossible to get around in, even to move
at all in).
Brad
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 12:56:47 PM |
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In article <1106588239.251368.93600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, "Pendito" <rdp2@pnetmail.co.za> writes:
Depends on whether you believe Relativity theories are correct,
incorrect, or somewhere in between.
Personally I believe there are things that are faster - yet if they are
we can not detect them by any current method. Maybe we should
investigate the ELF and EHF bands.
At what velocity will a photon impact with the singularity of a black
hole? If the photon spirals into the gravity well it should gain
velocity ...
Photons in gravity wells do not change speed. They may change
momentum. They may change energy. And they may even change
direction. But they don't change speed.
They always move at c in every local inertial frame.
Now, things that move faster than c...
If you mount a laser on top of an turntable rotating at 33 1/3 rpm
and line it up so that the beam sweeps across the face of the moon,
the speed of the illuminated spot on the moon will be about 4.7 times
the speed of light.
S.R. does not forbid this. Information is not transmitted from one
illuminated spot to the next at 4.7 c.
John Briggs
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 01:19:47 PM |
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<briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message
news:iUOQAO2RQG+n@eisner.encompasserve.org...
In article <1106588239.251368.93600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Pendito" <rdp2@pnetmail.co.za> writes:
Depends on whether you believe Relativity theories are correct,
incorrect, or somewhere in between.
Personally I believe there are things that are faster - yet if they
are
we can not detect them by any current method. Maybe we should
investigate the ELF and EHF bands.
At what velocity will a photon impact with the singularity of a black
hole? If the photon spirals into the gravity well it should gain
velocity ...
Photons in gravity wells do not change speed. They may change
momentum. They may change energy. And they may even change
direction. But they don't change speed.
They always move at c in every local inertial frame.
Now, things that move faster than c...
If you mount a laser on top of an turntable rotating at 33 1/3 rpm
and line it up so that the beam sweeps across the face of the moon,
the speed of the illuminated spot on the moon will be about 4.7 times
the speed of light.
S.R. does not forbid this. Information is not transmitted from one
illuminated spot to the next at 4.7 c.
John Briggs
Who gives a hoot what SR forbids?
The starting point of SR is Einstein's assertion "light is always
propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c which is
independent of the state of motion of the emitting body"
Reference :
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
It isn't a conclusion, it is simply a "IT IS BECAUSE I SAY SO" by
Einstein, not a carefully thought out deduction from the emprical
evidence. Some people will believe any *****, and you are one of them.
Androcles.
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 04:05:17 PM |
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"Androcles" <dummy@dummy.net> wrote in message
news:nTbJd.212733$48.156714@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
<briggs@encompasserve.org> wrote in message
news:iUOQAO2RQG+n@eisner.encompasserve.org...
In article <1106588239.251368.93600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
"Pendito" <rdp2@pnetmail.co.za> writes:
Depends on whether you believe Relativity theories are correct,
incorrect, or somewhere in between.
Personally I believe there are things that are faster - yet if
they
are
we can not detect them by any current method. Maybe we should
investigate the ELF and EHF bands.
At what velocity will a photon impact with the singularity of a
black
hole? If the photon spirals into the gravity well it should gain
velocity ...
Photons in gravity wells do not change speed. They may change
momentum. They may change energy. And they may even change
direction. But they don't change speed.
They always move at c in every local inertial frame.
Now, things that move faster than c...
If you mount a laser on top of an turntable rotating at 33 1/3 rpm
and line it up so that the beam sweeps across the face of the
moon,
the speed of the illuminated spot on the moon will be about 4.7
times
the speed of light.
S.R. does not forbid this. Information is not transmitted from
one
illuminated spot to the next at 4.7 c.
John Briggs
Who gives a hoot what SR forbids?
Every educated physicist. SR and QM are the two best established
physical theories of all time, the bleatings of Androclown
notwithstanding.
The starting point of SR is Einstein's assertion "light is always
propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c which is
independent of the state of motion of the emitting body"
It was not Einstein's discovery. It was inherent in the fact that
Maxwell's equations are Lorentz invariant and not Galilean invariant.
Einstein simply used it as a didactical tool.
There are many routes to SR.
I started from a totally diferent initial premise and ended with all
the paraphernalia of SR in my lecture course.
[snip]
Franz
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 11:45:00 AM |
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Pendito wrote:
Depends on whether you believe Relativity theories are correct,
incorrect, or somewhere in between.
Personally I believe there are things that are faster - yet if they are
we can not detect them by any current method. Maybe we should
investigate the ELF and EHF bands.
What you propose is totally devoid of empirical support.
The relativity theories are not only epirically (experimentally)
corrobertated, but they are well test and have -never, ever, ever- been
falsified empirically.
At what velocity will a photon impact with the singularity of a black
hole? If the photon spirals into the gravity well it should gain
velocity ...
Jump in and find out. The empirical method is the only sure way.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
23 Jan 2005 10:00:14 PM |
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In sci.physics, Timothy Law
<timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET>
wrote
on Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:16:29 GMT
<1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net>:
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Tachyons, perhaps. We've not seen one yet, AFAIK.
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "Jim Deutch" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
25 Jan 2005 01:22:09 PM |
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On Mon, 24 Jan 2005 02:16:29 GMT, "Timothy Law"
<timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote:
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Lots of them, but they're all "tricks": none can be used for anything
useful whatsoever.
The simplest one to envision is how you can move the light spot of a
laser beam faster than light. It's simple. The moon is about 1 1/2
light-seconds away. Shine your laser pointer at the moon. Then
quickly swivel it down to your feet. The "spot of light" has moved 1
1/2 light-seconds in a fraction of a second.
Note that, if you could see the spot of light on the moon at all,
you'd see it was _still there_ for a bit after it also showed up at
your feet. Like I said, it's a trick.
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
We must believe in free will. We have no choice. -Isaac B. Singer
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| User: "greywolf42" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 12:14:41 PM |
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Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and repeatedly) measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling. These are direct
measurements, and not simply a "phase velocity" problem. And the results
are all vetted and peer reviewed. They are simply ignored by theorists.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 04:05:18 PM |
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"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and repeatedly)
measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can tunnel?
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created, to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
[snip]
Franz
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
25 Jan 2005 04:54:24 PM |
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"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct3ret$87f$7@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and
repeatedly)
measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can tunnel?
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created, to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
If greywolf42 has noother comment to offer, I take it that he will at
least have the integrity to retract his assertion about UV photons
which can tunnel.
Franz
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
26 Jan 2005 07:52:00 AM |
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"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct6imv$4tn$6@sparta.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct3ret$87f$7@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers
please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and
repeatedly)
measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can
tunnel?
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created, to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
If greywolf42 has noother comment to offer, I take it that he will
at
least have the integrity to retract his assertion about UV photons
which can tunnel.
No comment yet?
No retraction yet?
Franz
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
27 Jan 2005 03:02:21 AM |
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"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct879v$brj$1@titan.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct6imv$4tn$6@sparta.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in
message
news:ct3ret$87f$7@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers
please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and
repeatedly)
measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can
tunnel?
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created, to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
If greywolf42 has no other comment to offer, I take it that he
will
at
least have the integrity to retract his assertion about UV photons
which can tunnel.
No comment yet?
No retraction yet?
Hello, greywolf42, are you there?
No comments yet?
No retractions yet
Franz
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| User: "greywolf42" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
27 Jan 2005 05:08:10 PM |
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Franz Heymann <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ctaams$t7v$4@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct879v$brj$1@titan.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct6imv$4tn$6@sparta.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in
message
news:ct3ret$87f$7@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers
please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and
repeatedly)
measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can
tunnel?
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created, to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
If greywolf42 has no other comment to offer, I take it that he
will
at
least have the integrity to retract his assertion about UV photons
which can tunnel.
No comment yet?
No retraction yet?
Hello, greywolf42, are you there?
No comments yet?
No retractions yet
Don't pee your pants, Franz. You seem to be missing a couple of concepts,
here.
First, these are newsgroups. And some of us have real lives that take
priority over the repartee available here. Responses aren't required within
a few hours ... or even a couple of days.
Second, I already responded to your silly, theoretical assertion (on the
24th -- both to you, directly, and to Randy Poe). Well before you started
this chain of pants-peeing messages. With actual experiments where UV
photons actually did tunnel. And I even pointed out the FAQ dealt with
photon tunnelling -- so the concept certainly isn't meaningless.
You seem to feel that because you like your theory of (virtual) photons,
that it must be true for the universe.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
.
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
28 Jan 2005 02:48:38 PM |
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"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:uveKd.6677$VA5.2689@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Franz Heymann <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ctaams$t7v$4@hercules.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in
message
news:ct879v$brj$1@titan.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in
message
news:ct6imv$4tn$6@sparta.btinternet.com...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in
message
news:ct3ret$87f$7@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers
please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and
repeatedly)
measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can
tunnel?
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created,
to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
If greywolf42 has no other comment to offer, I take it that
he
will
at
least have the integrity to retract his assertion about UV
photons
which can tunnel.
No comment yet?
No retraction yet?
Hello, greywolf42, are you there?
No comments yet?
No retractions yet
Don't pee your pants, Franz. You seem to be missing a couple of
concepts,
here.
First, these are newsgroups. And some of us have real lives that
take
priority over the repartee available here. Responses aren't
required within
a few hours ... or even a couple of days.
You are usually quite quick to respond.
Second, I already responded to your silly, theoretical assertion (on
the
24th -- both to you, directly, and to Randy Poe). Well before you
started
this chain of pants-peeing messages. With actual experiments where
UV
photons actually did tunnel.
Tunnelling involves getting to the other side of a potential barrier.
The concept of a potential barrier does not exist for a photon.
Of course I am aware that photons have been squeezed past places
which, naively, they should not pass
That is not tunnelling as usually understood and it behooves the folk
working in that field to use a new word for it, lest more
misunderstandings like this one occurs.
Moreover, the tunelling of which you speak is not a quantum effect.
It exists also in the case of classical waves, such as when a
microwave-frequency is sent into a region which is physically too
small to support a sinusoidally propagated wave with a real
propagation constant. It will exist in the hole as an evanescent
wave.
And I even pointed out the FAQ dealt with
photon tunnelling -- so the concept certainly isn't meaningless.
You seem to feel that because you like your theory of (virtual)
photons,
that it must be true for the universe.
I have not got a theory of virtual photons.
The concept of virtual photons is right at the root of *all* QED
calculations, and was originated in the 1930's, although the actual
word "virtual" appeared a decade or two later.
Franz
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| User: "Greysky" |
|
| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 11:10:51 PM |
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"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct3ret$87f$7@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and repeatedly)
measured
to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
Depending upon the parameters of your setup, barrier penetration can be
faster than this, causing that '1.7' number to shoot upwards.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can tunnel?
What defines a tunneling barrier? It can be something as significantly
substantial as the vacuum.
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created, to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
Which is why I always use electrons in my tunneling experiments.
[snip]
Yes.
Greysky
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| User: "greywolf42" |
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| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 04:42:49 PM |
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|
Franz Heymann <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct3ret$87f$7@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
UV photons have both been repeatably (and repeatedly)
measured to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
You are, of course, drivelling.
What are these potential barriers through which photons can tunnel?
Please remember that all a photon can do is to be created, to be
propagated and to be annihilated.
The concept of photons "tunneling" is meaningless
[snip]
And yet such tunneling exists -- despite your personal view of QED.
See the FAQ:
http://www.physics.adelaide.edu.au/~dkoks/Faq/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/FTL.ht
ml#11
=========
Quantum Tunnelling is the quantum mechanical effect which permits a particle
to escape through a barrier when it does not have enough energy to do so
classically. You can do a calculation of the time it takes a particle to
tunnel through. The answer you get can come out less than the time it takes
light to cover the distance at speed c.
=========
also:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/cf6f4e4fc7d37
d47
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/2ce217e7d64dc
0d7
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
.
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| User: "greywolf42" |
|
| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
24 Jan 2005 04:42:49 PM |
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|
greywolf42 <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and repeatedly)
measured to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when tunneling.
These are direct measurements, and not simply a "phase velocity" problem.
And the results are all vetted and peer reviewed. They are simply ignored
by theorists.
Whups! Meant to go back and put in reference links. But I got sidetracked
by Tom R's new missive. Here are two links on the issue, with prior
discussion and references.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/cf6f4e4fc7d37
d47
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/2ce217e7d64dc
0d7
And I can't find a link backing up my claim for electron tunneling speed,
other than:
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.research/msg/6f69cbcaec5f662
8
So I'll chalk that up to faulty memory.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
.
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
|
| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
25 Jan 2005 01:13:32 AM |
|
|
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:JReJd.49$VA5.37@fe07.usenetserver.com...
greywolf42 <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and
repeatedly)
measured to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when
tunneling.
These are direct measurements, and not simply a "phase velocity"
problem.
And the results are all vetted and peer reviewed. They are simply
ignored
by theorists.
Whups! Meant to go back and put in reference links. But I got
sidetracked
by Tom R's new missive. Here are two links on the issue, with prior
discussion and references.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/cf6f4e4fc7d37
d47
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/2ce217e7d64dc
0d7
References to newsgroup threads are overwhelmingly likely to lead to
horse dung, so these two don't count in my book.
[snip]
Franz
.
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| User: "greywolf42" |
|
| Title: Re: what is faster than light? |
25 Jan 2005 12:34:36 PM |
|
|
Franz Heymann <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:ct4ris$nn7$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:JReJd.49$VA5.37@fe07.usenetserver.com...
greywolf42 <mingstb@marssim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:lWaJd.3430$rc4.3127@fe07.usenetserver.com...
Timothy Law <timlaw@gamebox.netNETNETNET> wrote in message
news:1UYId.8659$rp1.7277@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Hi, is there anything faster than light? Serious answers please.
Thank you.
Electrons and UV photons have both been repeatably (and
repeatedly)
measured to move at 1.7 times the speed of light -- when
tunneling.
These are direct measurements, and not simply a "phase velocity"
problem.
And the results are all vetted and peer reviewed. They are simply
ignored
by theorists.
Whups! Meant to go back and put in reference links. But I got
sidetracked
by Tom R's new missive. Here are two links on the issue, with prior
discussion and references.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/cf6f4e4fc7d37
d47
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/msg/2ce217e7d64dc
0d7
References to newsgroup threads are overwhelmingly likely to lead to
horse dung, so these two don't count in my book.
[snip]
If you won't look, your ignorance is incurable. The vetted refs are
contained within the links.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
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