Science > Physics > What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it?
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"xray4abc" |
| Date: |
20 Sep 2005 01:36:10 PM |
| Object: |
What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
Surely, you got some alternatives any time as :
- go and have a drink because , first of all you got
"at last " the great idea
- go and have two drinks, because you can not use your idea
- forget about it , probably others had it long time
before you
- do not tell anybody, they will test it and use it leaving
you out .
You could suggest some more !
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Well , what would you do with such an idea ?
( I did not try to tell about this idea to the guys from
sci.physics.research group, because about two years ago
I have tried to discuss about scanning the Earth and
other cosmic objects using neutrino beams and the moderator,
Mr. Baez said that, he would not let such a stupidity
be discussed there. Since then, I have read that physicists
are really thinking of searching the structure of Earth
using the existing detectors !!! )
Best regards , LL
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
21 Sep 2005 12:20:00 PM |
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LL, you stole my idea. :P One'll need an alloy though.
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| User: "xray4abc" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
22 Sep 2005 09:03:25 AM |
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Autymn D. C.
LL, you stole my idea. :P One'll need an alloy though.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well........ we could split the award !
We could recycle the can Uncle Al suggested for other use.
LL
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
21 Sep 2005 11:19:38 PM |
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Hi shitty
Y.P
--------------------------
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
22 Sep 2005 10:22:40 PM |
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Y.Porat wrote:
Hi shitty
Stop talking to yourself, shitty. I'm a chitty.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to testit? |
20 Sep 2005 01:42:21 PM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Have you a mathematical desciption... including the calculations
of neutrino interating with the matter of a neutron star?
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| User: "xray4abc" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
20 Sep 2005 02:54:21 PM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Have you a mathematical desciption... including the calculations
of neutrino interating with the matter of a neutron star?
Well, you were quick in reacting to my posting.
No, I got no mathematical description.
The neutron star was just an example , as a very dense matter ,
where the probability of interaction would be so high that
would make the probability of detection high too.
You could think of any other superdense objects instead.
For some of them might have been calculations done.
Best regards ,LL
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to testit? |
20 Sep 2005 06:39:59 PM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Have you a mathematical desciption... including the calculations
of neutrino interating with the matter of a neutron star?
Well, you were quick in reacting to my posting.
No, I got no mathematical description.
The neutron star was just an example , as a very dense matter ,
where the probability of interaction would be so high that
would make the probability of detection high too.
You could think of any other superdense objects instead.
For some of them might have been calculations done.
Best regards ,LL
Neutrino detectors are nore valuable if the can determine the
direction from which a neutrino came from and the energy it
has. Does your detector have those properties?
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| User: "xray4abc" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
21 Sep 2005 08:46:51 AM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Have you a mathematical desciption... including the calculations
of neutrino interating with the matter of a neutron star?
Well, you were quick in reacting to my posting.
No, I got no mathematical description.
The neutron star was just an example , as a very dense matter ,
where the probability of interaction would be so high that
would make the probability of detection high too.
You could think of any other superdense objects instead.
For some of them might have been calculations done.
Best regards ,LL
Neutrino detectors are nore valuable if the can determine the
direction from which a neutrino came from and the energy it
has. Does your detector have those properties?
Well, it is for now just a raw idea.
It could be worth a billion dollars or could be worth
as Uncle Al suggested "elegantly".
It would be extremely sensitive to the direction of neutrinos.
I can't say anything about energy , because this would
depend on the active substance used and the properties of
neutrinos of different energies .
I think , a testing of the idea might be done using
gamma radiation. I mean, just to see whether it is or not
something in it.
Best regards, LL
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to testit? |
21 Sep 2005 10:51:49 AM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Have you a mathematical desciption... including the calculations
of neutrino interating with the matter of a neutron star?
Well, you were quick in reacting to my posting.
No, I got no mathematical description.
The neutron star was just an example , as a very dense matter ,
where the probability of interaction would be so high that
would make the probability of detection high too.
You could think of any other superdense objects instead.
For some of them might have been calculations done.
Best regards ,LL
Neutrino detectors are nore valuable if the can determine the
direction from which a neutrino came from and the energy it
has. Does your detector have those properties?
Well, it is for now just a raw idea.
It could be worth a billion dollars or could be worth
as Uncle Al suggested "elegantly".
It would be extremely sensitive to the direction of neutrinos.
I can't say anything about energy , because this would
depend on the active substance used and the properties of
neutrinos of different energies .
I think , a testing of the idea might be done using
gamma radiation. I mean, just to see whether it is or not
something in it.
Best regards, LL
A few meters of earth will stop most gamma photons.... but a
few light years of lead won't stop most neutrinos. Question LL--
did you look up anything technical about neutrinos in a text book
or on the web?
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| User: "xray4abc" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
22 Sep 2005 08:43:35 AM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
A few meters of earth will stop most gamma photons.... but a
few light years of lead won't stop most neutrinos. Question LL--
did you look up anything technical about neutrinos in a text book
or on the web?
Yes.
Yet, I am a positive thinker.
I stick to the saying : " If there is a will ,
then there is a way "
Maybe it is not now the moment to find a solution ,
but definitely, all the time,it is the time to try to find one.
I am a guy that likes this kind of challenges.
If not for other reason, then just for
the exercise of the mind.
Gamma photons would be just a means to test the principle
of the detector which, I remind you, is the simulation
of a less penetrable matter .
If the attempt to show a less penetrable matter does not work for
gamma photons (or for neutrons, as another alternative of
testing) then it is likely that the idea has to be dropped.
Best regards, LL
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to testit? |
22 Sep 2005 09:07:58 AM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
A few meters of earth will stop most gamma photons.... but a
few light years of lead won't stop most neutrinos. Question LL--
did you look up anything technical about neutrinos in a text book
or on the web?
Yes.
Yet, I am a positive thinker.
I stick to the saying : " If there is a will ,
then there is a way "
Maybe it is not now the moment to find a solution ,
but definitely, all the time,it is the time to try to find one.
I am a guy that likes this kind of challenges.
If not for other reason, then just for
the exercise of the mind.
Gamma photons would be just a means to test the principle
of the detector which, I remind you, is the simulation
of a less penetrable matter .
If the attempt to show a less penetrable matter does not work for
gamma photons (or for neutrons, as another alternative of
testing) then it is likely that the idea has to be dropped.
Best regards, LL
Did you know that the working solar neutrino detectors are a
good mile beneath the Earth's surface in order to block gamma
and other radiation?
See: http://www.google.com/search?q=solar+neutrino+detectors
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| User: "xray4abc" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
22 Sep 2005 10:53:25 AM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
Did you know that the working solar neutrino detectors are a
good mile beneath the Earth's surface in order to block gamma
and other radiation?
See: http://www.google.com/search?q=solar+neutrino+detectors
Yes.
But , again , to test a principle is not exactly
the same thing with using it in a detecting facility.
I may lacking many things but not a clear mind and
an awareness of the difficulties.
Best regards, LL
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to testit? |
22 Sep 2005 10:57:41 AM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
Did you know that the working solar neutrino detectors are a
good mile beneath the Earth's surface in order to block gamma
and other radiation?
See: http://www.google.com/search?q=solar+neutrino+detectors
Yes.
But , again , to test a principle is not exactly
the same thing with using it in a detecting facility.
I may lacking many things but not a clear mind and
an awareness of the difficulties.
Best regards, LL
Good luck to you.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to testit? |
20 Sep 2005 04:48:16 PM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Have you a mathematical desciption... including the calculations
of neutrino interating with the matter of a neutron star?
Well, you were quick in reacting to my posting.
No, I got no mathematical description.
The neutron star was just an example , as a very dense matter ,
where the probability of interaction would be so high that
would make the probability of detection high too.
You could think of any other superdense objects instead.
For some of them might have been calculations done.
Best regards ,LL
Newtron detectors are nore valuable if the can determine the
direction from which a neutrino came from and the energy it
has. Does your detector have those properties?
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| User: "Puppet_Sock" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
21 Sep 2005 09:02:07 AM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Do you have any notion how dense matter would have to
be in order to use it as a neutrino detector?
Homework: In ordinary lead, find the mean free path
of a neutrino. Hint: It's probably larger than you
would expect.
Don't just throw out an idea and expect accolades.
Figure out how reasonable the idea is. Do some of
the calculations involved. Learn more about neutrino
physics and figure out how your idea might be made
practical. Or figure out why, as in this case, your
idea is trash.
You want to see how an idea gets pursued by somebody
who is not in the physics "in crowd" look at Uncle Al.
A chemist got an idea about chirality and Eotvos. For
years he pursued this idea. He's done plenty of research
and gobs of calculations. Now, any day, we will be
getting the results of the experiment.
Socks
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| User: "Mark Fergerson" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to testit? |
22 Sep 2005 04:06:17 PM |
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xray4abc wrote:
Surely, you got some alternatives any time as :
- go and have a drink because , first of all you got
"at last " the great idea
- go and have two drinks, because you can not use your idea
- forget about it , probably others had it long time
before you
- do not tell anybody, they will test it and use it leaving
you out .
You could suggest some more !
Figure out the "nub" of the idea, IOW reduce it to its absolute
minimum of components etc. Then figure out why you think you can't
do it, and what you'd have to know how to do in order to do it.
Learn that, then go for it.
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Well , what would you do with such an idea ?
Exactly how to "simulate" superdense matter, and which properties
do you need to simulate, and how closely? We already have such stuff
available, but it only comes in very small pieces; they're called
"atomic nuclei". They're also difficult to pack together in order to
get large pieces, but if you arrange them properly you can simulate
some of the properties of large pieces along certain directions.
( I did not try to tell about this idea to the guys from
sci.physics.research group, because about two years ago
I have tried to discuss about scanning the Earth and
other cosmic objects using neutrino beams and the moderator,
Mr. Baez said that, he would not let such a stupidity
be discussed there. Since then, I have read that physicists
are really thinking of searching the structure of Earth
using the existing detectors !!! )
Are you familiar with the phrase "Not Invented Here"?
Mark L. Fergerson
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| User: "xray4abc" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
27 Sep 2005 12:41:02 PM |
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Mark Fergerson wrote:
Figure out the "nub" of the idea, IOW reduce it to its absolute
minimum of components etc. Then figure out why you think you can't
do it, and what you'd have to know how to do in order to do it.
Learn that, then go for it.
Exactly how to "simulate" superdense matter, and which properties
do you need to simulate, and how closely? We already have such stuff
available, but it only comes in very small pieces; they're called
"atomic nuclei". They're also difficult to pack together in order to
get large pieces, but if you arrange them properly you can simulate
some of the properties of large pieces along certain directions.
Are you familiar with the phrase "Not Invented Here"?
Mark L. Fergerson
Thanks for your pertinent comments and suggestions!
Regarding your last question, it reminds me of Mossbauer.
He said that ,after publishing his findings , in a very short
time they were reproduced in 2 big laboratories just to show that
"IT CAN NOT BE TRUE !"
At same time, I thank to all that had cunstructive
attitude toward the issue in discussion here.
I think,there is nothing left to be discussed further and from my
part I'll put and end to it.
Thanks again, LL
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
20 Sep 2005 04:16:21 PM |
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xray4abc wrote:
[snip]
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Well , what would you do with such an idea ?
[snip]
Shitcan it.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "xray4abc" |
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| Title: Re: What would You do with an idea you do not have means to test it? |
20 Sep 2005 04:40:04 PM |
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Uncle Al wrote:
xray4abc wrote:
[snip]
Now, I got an idea , please do not laugh , of a
neutrino detector , a small size one ,which would use
a simulator of a superdense matter , as it would be
the matter of a neutron star.
Well , what would you do with such an idea ?
[snip]
Shitcan it.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
That would be a pretty radical procedure.
I do not have the heart to do like that.
Well , I'll include it in the first group of alternatives.
Best regards, LL
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