| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Ira Humperdink MD" |
| Date: |
23 Feb 2006 10:07:09 AM |
| Object: |
Why are Asians so good at math? |
But the whole premise of this thread is off. Asians do well in
college, but there are no
asian mathematicians at the exhaulted research level of Newton or Gauss
or Witten.
ltlee1 wrote:
What do you mean by "good at math"?
For example, doing well in college calculus is largely a matter of
memorizing the equations. This will allow one to solve the problems
quicker and hence getting a better score in time constrainted
examinations. The same reasoning can apply to other standardized tests.
Countries which tend to emphasize rote memory would have an advantage.
However, I would submit that tradition could contribute to give the
appearance that Asians are good at math.
1. Traing mathematician is relative cheap. No expensive equipments are
needed most of the time. Hence large but relative poor country will
have more good mathematicians relative to other branches of learnings.
2. Good at math is a way to get a ticket to enter foreign universities.
RichAsianKid wrote:
Chess One wrote:
"Day Brown" <daybrown@ozarkisp.net> wrote in message
news:1140498356.260531.237110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
<...>
"The Alphabet & the Goddess" by Shlain comments on the effect of the
right brain literacy based on icons compared to the left brain literacy
based on linear alphabetic letters. Literate Chinese wrote with an
artistic sensibility that is only seen in the west by caligraphers. It
also took a fine intellect to master the technique, whereas we see that
any damn fool can learn to write with an alphabet, which we see every
day online.
And The Egyptians also had an iconographic non-linear alphabet which
required more than mechanical association of its elements to interpret. Phil
Now here's another very interesting paper. Any comments?
http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol5no3/53-wch-script.pdf
"Abstract: The "Greek" alphabet made literacy widely available and
facilitated the growth
of ideas that underpin Western society. A more important effect,
however,
has been the cognitive impact of the mechanism itself. Learning the
alphabet
entails an early and decisive investment in abstract cognitive
practices that
define Western theoretic culture. Oral societies, and the societies of
East Asia
where literacy depends on nonalphabetic scripts, lack this
developmental cue
and employ patterns of thought that are mirror opposite."
Can language cause a change in brain thinking patterns, for example?
Does learning the 'ideograms' enhance memory? Maybe increase
visuospatial IQ? You may be interested in this area.
(Yes, the occidental quarterly a so-called 'white nationalist' journal
and is controversial, but I think it is important to separate the
contents from the source sometimes. Afterall, one can just as well
argue that the hostility towards psychometrics is motivated by
underlying egalitarian attitudes.)
.
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| User: "toto" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
27 Feb 2006 12:20:25 PM |
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On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:13:40 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
In 1894 Einstein's family moved to Milan but Einstein remained in Munich. In
1895 Einstein failed an examination that would have allowed him to study for
a diploma as an electrical engineer at the Eidgenössische Technische
Hochschule in Zurich.....
Because he did not study the material that was covered on the exam.
Yes, he failed the exam, but that was partly because he had left
school and was studying in his own way and thus missed some
material the exam covered.
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
.
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| User: "Jim Walsh" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
28 Feb 2006 06:52:15 AM |
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On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 02:20:25 +0800, toto wrote
(in article <rlg60253t6vjnfhi2040qnjpoj5ho10ps8@4ax.com>):
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:13:40 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
In 1894 Einstein's family moved to Milan but Einstein remained in Munich.
In
1895 Einstein failed an examination that would have allowed him to study
for
a diploma as an electrical engineer at the Eidgenössische Technische
Hochschule in Zurich.....
Because he did not study the material that was covered on the exam.
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 03:04:51 AM |
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Jim Walsh <jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 02:20:25 +0800, toto wrote
(in article <rlg60253t6vjnfhi2040qnjpoj5ho10ps8@4ax.com>):
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:13:40 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
In 1894 Einstein's family moved to Milan but Einstein remained in Munich.
In
1895 Einstein failed an examination that would have allowed him to study
for
a diploma as an electrical engineer at the Eidgenössische Technische
Hochschule in Zurich.....
Because he did not study the material that was covered on the exam.
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
We do not. I consider the results in 1905 to be proof of this.
lojbab
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 06:32:18 AM |
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Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
We do not. I consider the results in 1905 to be proof of this.
Einstein did manifest an attitude problem whilst he was in school which
is why he did not get recomendations for an academic position. He did
not get a professor job until after he had established his mojo in the
physics community by way of his publications. He made his living as a
patent office official in Switzerland.
Einstein's problems were not with the subject matter. They were with
fuddy duddy teachers who didn't have a new thought in the past thirty years.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "J.Venning" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 06:49:11 AM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message =
news:46lijqFb9r7nU4@individual.net...
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
We do not. I consider the results in 1905 to be proof of this.
Einstein's problems were not with the subject matter. They were with=20
fuddy duddy teachers who didn't have a new thought in the past thirty =
years.
Bob Kolker
Billy Graham was 86 years old with Parkinson's disease. In January
2000, leaders in Charlotte, North Carolina, invited their favourite son,
Billy Graham, to a luncheon in his honour. Billy initially hesitated to
accept the invitation because he struggles with Parkinson's disease. But =
the
Charlotte leaders said, "We don't expect a major address. Just come and =
let
us honour you." So he agreed. After wonderful things were said about =
him,=20
he stepped to the rostrum, looked at the crowd, and said, "I'm reminded
today of Albert Einstein, the great physicist who this month has been
honoured by Time magazine as the Man of the Century. Einstein was once
travelling from Princeton on a train when the conductor came down the =
aisle,
punching the tickets of every passenger. When he came to Einstein, =
Einstein
reached in his vest pocket. He couldn't find his ticket, so he reached =
in
his trouser pockets. It wasn't there, so he looked in his briefcase but
couldn't find it. Then he looked in the seat beside him. He still =
couldn't
find it. The conductor said, "Dr. Einstein, I know who you are. We all =
know
who you are. I'm sure you bought a ticket. Don't worry about it."=20
Einstein nodded appreciatively. The conductor continued down the aisle
punching tickets. As he was ready to move to the next car, he turned =
around
and saw the great physicist down on his hands and knees looking under =
his
seat for his ticket. The conductor rushed back and said, "Dr. Einstein, =
Dr.
Einstein, don't worry, I know who you are. No problem. You don't need a
ticket. I'm sure you bought one." Einstein looked at him and said, =
"Young
man, I too, know who I am. What I don't know is where I'm going.'" =
Having
said that Billy Graham continued, "See the suit I'm wearing? It's a =
brand
new suit. My wife, my children, and my grandchildren are telling me I've
gotten a little slovenly in my old age. I used to be a bit more =
fastidious.
So I went out and bought a new suit for this luncheon and one more =
occasion.
You know what that occasion is? This is the suit in which I'll be =
buried.
But when you hear I'm dead, I don't want you to immediately remember the
suit I'm wearing. I want you to remember this: I not only know who I am =
....
I also know where I'm going."
J.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 12:07:02 PM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
We do not. I consider the results in 1905 to be proof of this.
Einstein did manifest an attitude problem whilst he was in school which
is why he did not get recomendations for an academic position.
An "attitude problem" is not a problem, except to those who look for
trouble.
He did
not get a professor job until after he had established his mojo in the
physics community by way of his publications.
Which he did as soon as he got his doctorate.
Actually, he still had problems after that. There was this little
problem called anti-Semitism.
He made his living as a patent office official in Switzerland.
A reasonably good paying job that allowed him time to do his research.
You seem to think that job was a "problem". I think it was a better
job than galley slave to a professor that was dumber than the student.
Einstein's problems were not with the subject matter. They were with
fuddy duddy teachers who didn't have a new thought in the past thirty years.
Actually, as the cites I provided indicated, he had some of the more
brilliant professors in Europe. But the professorate has never been
prone to cater to undergraduates, these professors were working in
different areas of physics than Einstein was interested in, and the
most important one in his life was engaged in a running feud with
another physics professor at the same institution. It takes a superb
politician, not a good physicist, to be on good terms with professors
who are bitter rivals with each other.
lojbab
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| User: "Ira Humperdink MD" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 12:23:44 PM |
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I bet einstein was a poor lover in bed. the man does not appear to be
in touch with his body or his sensuality. If only his wife wrote a
tell-all book.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 04:23:14 PM |
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Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> wrote:
I bet einstein was a poor lover in bed. the man does not appear to be
in touch with his body or his sensuality. If only his wife wrote a
tell-all book.
You can bet on any damn thing you wish. What you are willing to bet on
has no cognitive of evidential status in the slightest. I bet you are
a ***** for brains fool with a low i.q. and even lower self esteemd.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Ross A. Finlayson" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 07:09:40 PM |
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They know how to multiply. Also, they love puns, so are quite happy
about it.
You know what I recommend to you: Windows, and research. If you're
serious about mathematics, you should sit down and read math PDF's for
days. Post to usenet, go for it, learn. I might approach it in a
slightly different way than I recommend. Maybe Not Windows, and
research. I work with UNIX supercomputers, with the mathematics.
I'll tell you, there's nothing you can't learn from the Internet.
It's not just a bad idea, it's the law!
Women are like high performance sports cars, uh, hopefully. Parts, are
parts.
Truth in advertising. I shall call the null axiom theory "A theory".
Don't take a gun to a knife fiight.
Ross
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| User: "Jim Walsh" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 10:01:39 AM |
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On Wed, 1 Mar 2006 20:32:18 +0800, Robert J. Kolker wrote (in article
<46lijqFb9r7nU4@individual.net>):
Bob LeChevalier wrote:
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
We do not. I consider the results in 1905 to be proof of this.
Einstein did manifest an attitude problem whilst he was in school which is
why he did not get recomendations for an academic position. He did not get
a professor job until after he had established his mojo in the physics
community by way of his publications. He made his living as a patent
office official in Switzerland.
Einstein's problems were not with the subject matter. They were with fuddy
duddy teachers who didn't have a new thought in the past thirty years.
I am glad that we agree that Einstein had trouble in school.
I have always regarded his troubles as being evidence of defects in the
education system.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| User: "toto" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
28 Feb 2006 04:32:43 PM |
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On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:52:15 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 02:20:25 +0800, toto wrote
(in article <rlg60253t6vjnfhi2040qnjpoj5ho10ps8@4ax.com>):
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:13:40 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
In 1894 Einstein's family moved to Milan but Einstein remained in Munich.
In
1895 Einstein failed an examination that would have allowed him to study
for
a diploma as an electrical engineer at the Eidgenössische Technische
Hochschule in Zurich.....
Because he did not study the material that was covered on the exam.
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
His grades were not poor, however, even in subjects he was not
really interested in. He got average grades in those and high marks
in math and science.
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
.
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| User: "Zuo Tung" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 06:30:12 PM |
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so if a person isn't interested in science and math, they are not as
intelligent as Einstein? What are you trying to say?
toto wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:52:15 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
On Tue, 28 Feb 2006 02:20:25 +0800, toto wrote
(in article <rlg60253t6vjnfhi2040qnjpoj5ho10ps8@4ax.com>):
On Mon, 27 Feb 2006 15:13:40 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
In 1894 Einstein's family moved to Milan but Einstein remained in Munich.
In
1895 Einstein failed an examination that would have allowed him to study
for
a diploma as an electrical engineer at the Eidgenössische Technische
Hochschule in Zurich.....
Because he did not study the material that was covered on the exam.
I see we totally agree that Einstein had troubles in school.
His grades were not poor, however, even in subjects he was not
really interested in. He got average grades in those and high marks
in math and science.
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
.
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| User: "Jim Walsh" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
26 Feb 2006 04:23:27 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:59:00 +0800, toto wrote
(in article <0tavv11eno9kd99k9l1v33cqoshneflfun@4ax.com>):
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:16:02 -0800, Zuo Tung <ztjt@newdeal.org> wrote:
So you are saying that Einstein was an idiot? I don't think so.
Watch your attributions especially when you top post. I said that
it was an urban legend that Einstein did poorly in school or couldn't
tie his shoes. The myth that Einstein had a learning disability is
most likely just that - a myth.
It is no urban legend that he did badly in school and that several of his
professors predicted he would not amount to much.
--
Love, Jim
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
.
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| User: "toto" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
26 Feb 2006 11:18:57 AM |
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On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 18:23:27 +0800, Jim Walsh
<jim_S_N_P_O_AM_walsh_iii@operamail.NO.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 08:59:00 +0800, toto wrote
(in article <0tavv11eno9kd99k9l1v33cqoshneflfun@4ax.com>):
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:16:02 -0800, Zuo Tung <ztjt@newdeal.org> wrote:
So you are saying that Einstein was an idiot? I don't think so.
Watch your attributions especially when you top post. I said that
it was an urban legend that Einstein did poorly in school or couldn't
tie his shoes. The myth that Einstein had a learning disability is
most likely just that - a myth.
It is no urban legend that he did badly in school and that several of his
professors predicted he would not amount to much.
It is an urban legend. His grades were fine. He could not cope
with the authoritarian attitude of the school though, so he left
without a degree. And yeah, he had teachers who predicted he
would not get anywhere, but that was more because of his attitude
toward them then because of any problems with subject matter.
http://www.einstein-website.de/z_kids/print/p_certificatekids.html
From 1885 when he was six years old he attended "Petersschule", a
catholic elementary school in Munich. Due to a report card from school
Albert's mother wrote to her sister: "Yesterday Albert received his
grades, he was again number one, and his report card was brilliant."
In October 1888 he changed to Luitpold grammar school. As he was not
able to cope with the authoritarian attitude of the school and as time
went by had more and more severe problems with some of his teachers he
left grammar school ahead of time in December 1894 without a degree.
His class teacher had once said to him that "never will he get
anywhere".
*********************
In the course of his school time Albert Einstein turned to be a very
good pupil in mathematics and science. In the other school subjects he
was a more “moderate” pupil. Of course this fact had nothing to do
with a lack of intelligence. He simply did not want to understand that
he should also learn things that did not interest him. In his
certificate of qualification for university matriculation the lessons
which he was less interested in can easily be detected. But the
average grade in his certificate was a 5, i.e. the grade "good"!
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
.
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| User: "Chess One" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
24 Feb 2006 02:19:38 PM |
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"toto" <scarecrow@wicked.witch> wrote in message
news:gg8tv1h99g07hk00crer4c5e28c2tsji00@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:15:18 -0800, Zuo Tung <ztjt@newdeal.org> wrote:
I don't think so. Einstein couldn't even tie his shoes.
Urban legend. And even if true, it would only suggest some
problems with fine motor skills.
My family by marriage knew him. He could certainly tie his shoes.
It is unlikely that he could not tie his shoes anyway as he also
showed a manual dexterity. He liked mechanical toys and was
curious about how they worked. He liked jigsaw puzzles and
built towers of cards.
And liked rowing on lake Carnegie, would even challenge you to a race, which
requires considerably kinesthetic coordination and controlled effort.
Note that while he talked somewhat late, he was within the
normal range because he was speaking in complete sentences
sometime between the age of 2 and 3 (He spoke in a sentence
when his sister was born and she was only 2 years younger than
he was).
Late in his life he adopted a parrot which was depressed. He sang to it,
probably in English, but who knows, maybe he sang sad leider?
<...>
My [ex] mother in law was astonished by him, and usually cut himn socially
as being 'not quite the thing'. He would shout across Nassau St. "Cooo
eeeee, Mrs J!" And generally behave to mock the rather stiff traditions of
New Jersey middle-classness at the time, even to married women, even when
accompanied by their husbands.
It is 'interesting' to view him through her eyes :)
Phil
--
Dorothy
There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
The Outer Limits
.
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| User: "Herman Rubin" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
25 Feb 2006 02:07:03 PM |
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In article <uTJLf.29$dj2.1@trndny04>, Chess One <innes8@verizon.net> wrote:
"toto" <scarecrow@wicked.witch> wrote in message
news:gg8tv1h99g07hk00crer4c5e28c2tsji00@4ax.com...
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 15:15:18 -0800, Zuo Tung <ztjt@newdeal.org> wrote:
I don't think so. Einstein couldn't even tie his shoes.
Urban legend. And even if true, it would only suggest some
problems with fine motor skills.
My family by marriage knew him. He could certainly tie his shoes.
It is unlikely that he could not tie his shoes anyway as he also
showed a manual dexterity. He liked mechanical toys and was
curious about how they worked. He liked jigsaw puzzles and
built towers of cards.
As a youth, he made money playing the violin. He was the
guest artist as a violinist later in life.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
26 Feb 2006 12:54:42 AM |
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In <dtqdd7$54fc@odds.stat.purdue.edu> by Herman Rubin
<hrubin@odds.stat.purdue.edu> on 25 Feb 2006 15:07:03 -0500 we perused:
*+-As a youth, he made money playing the violin. He was the
*+-guest artist as a violinist later in life.
The role of music in math continues to fascinate me.
Damadian (MRI) and Papanicolaou (Pap smear) also played violin.
I have my own semi-theory: learning multiple lnaguages WELL
(ambilingual, not multilingual) before age two and a half keeps the
mind from closing. It remains supralingual. Instead of the mind being
confined to one language, it ignores the bounds of language. At that
age, a lot of unused language skills atrophy.
Kornich (CUNY), Underachievement, ChasThomas SpfdIl 1965 LC65-16650 66-09071
Pierce & Bowman Motvn Pttn Suprr HS Students
p251 higher-achieving students reported that they had been more active in
school-related activites.. valued the concepts school, work, and imagination
more highly.. more active in religious groups.. mothers held higher
educational aspirations for their children.. engaged in more educationally
related activites (music, science, [church school? ancestral language?],
etc).. first-born or only child.. Small families produced proportionately
more high achievers than did large families
Bernard Rosen (orig Am Soc Scty 8/57) Race, Ethnicity and the Achievement Syndrome
p253-5 "new" immigrant groups which settled primarily in the Northeast,
the Greeks and Jews have attained middle class status more rapidly than most
of their fellow immigrants. In general, ethnic groups with Roman Catholic
affiliation have moved up less rapidly than non-Catholic groups. And the
vertical mobility of Negroes, even in the less prepressive environment of the
industrial Northeast, has been relatively low.. many Jews came to America
with occupational skills better suited to urban.. Both the Greeks and Jews
were quicker to develop effective community organizations.. many Jews and a
small but influential number of Levantine Greeks had come from small towns or
cities, while most of the Roman Catholic immigrants from Eastern and Southern
Europe (and SOuthern Negroes before their migration to the North) came from
rural communities [cit Sklare The_Jews FP 1958, Burgess Greeks_in_Am 1913,
Saloutos S Atl Q 4:69-82 1945, BCROsen AmSoclgRvu 21:203-211 1956]
p260 Jews expect earliest evidence of self-reliace from their children
(mean age 6.83 years), followed by the Protestants (6.87), Negroes (7.23),
Greeks (7.67), French-Canadians (7.99), and Italians (8.03)
p261 Puritan Ethic with its concept of work as a "calling" and the
exhortation that a job be done well. Of course, not all Protestants would be
equally comfortable with this tradition; it is much more applicable, for
example to Presbyterians and Quakers than to Methodists and Baptists
p262 Protestants, Jews and Greeks place a greater emphasis on independence
and achievement training than Southern Italians and French-Canadians
p267 cultures of white Protestants, Jews, and Greeks stand out as
considerably more individualistic, activistic, and future-oriented than those
of Southern Italians, French-Canadians, and Negroes.. Like protestantism,
Judaism is an intensely individualistic religion and the Jews are intensely
individualistic people
p268-9 In some respects, Greek and Jewish cultures were strikingly similar
at the turn of the century. The ethos of the town and city permeated the
Greek more than most other Mediterranean cultures, although only a small
proportion of the population was engaged in trade - with the important
exception of the Levantine Greeks, who were largely merchants. The image of
the Greek in the Eastern Mediterranean area was that of an individualistic,
foresighted, competitive trader. Early observers of the Greek in America were
impressed by his activistic, future-oriented behavior. E A Ross, a rather
unfriendly observer, wrote as early as 1914 that "the saving, commercial
Greek climbs. From curb to stand, from stand to store, from little store to
big store, and from there to branch stores in other cities - such are the
stages in his upward path. [cit Saloutos p71] Though separated by thousands
of miles, French-Canadian and Southern Italian culutres were similar in many
respects. Both were primarily peasant cultures, strongly influenced by the
Roman Catholic Church. Neither could be described as activistic,
individualistic or future-oriented. In Southern Italian society the
closed-class system and grinding poverty fostered a tradition of resignation
- a belief that the individual had little control over his life situation and
a stress upon the role of fate (Destino) in determining success. The living
conditions of French-Canadians, although less harsh, were sufficiently sever
to sharply limit the individual's sence of mastery.. Extended family ties
were very strong in both groups: there is the SOuthern Italian saying, "the
family against all others;" the French-Canadian farmer in need of help will
travel many miles to hire a kinsman rather than an otherwise convenient
neighbor. Irnicannly, although Negroes are usually Protestant (however, not
ordinarily of the Calvinistic type [Condi Rice is Calvinist Preby]) and have
been exposed to the liberal economic [welfare] ethic longer than most
p273-4 [cit Williams Am_Soc 1951, Woods CultVal_AmEthnGr 1956)
Protestants' stress upon formal education.. Jews have placed a very high
value on educational.. Southern Italians, school was an upper class
institution, not an avenue for advancement for their children, booklearning
was remote from everyday experience, and intellectualism often regarded with
distrust. French-Canadians, although not hostile to education and learning,
were disinclined to educate their sons beyond the elementary.. Greeks -
generally no better educated than Italians or French-Canadians - on the whole
were much more favorably disposed towards learning, in large part because of
their intense nationalistic identification with the cultural glories of
Ancient Greece (footnote: Attempts by Mussolini to create a similar bond
between his people and ancient Rome, or even the more recent Renaissance were
unsuccessful. French-Canadians for the most part have long refused to be
impressed by the "secular" achievement of European anti-clerical French
society) This identification was strengthened by the relatively hostile
reception Greeks met on their arrival in this country, and is in part
responsible for the rapid development of private schools supported by the
Greek community and devoted to the teaching of Greek culture - an interesting
parallel to the Hebrew School among American Jews.. 96 per cent of the
Jewish, 88 per cent of the Protestant, 85 per cent of the Greek, 83 per cent
of the Negro (much higher than was anticipated), 64 per cent of the Italian,
and 56 per cent of the French-Canadian mothers said that they expected their
sons to go to college
p278 achievement motivation is more characteristic of Greeks, Jews, and
white Protestants than of Italians, French-Canadians, and Negroes. The data
also indicate that Jews, Greeks, and Protestants are more likely to possess
achievement values and higher educational and vocational aspirations that
Italians and French-Canadians. The values and educational aspirations of
Negroes are higher than expected, being comparable to those of Jews, Greeks,
and white Protestants, and higher than those of the Italians and
French-Canadians. Vocational aspirations of Negroes, however, are the lowest
---
Religious Preferences and Worldly Success Mayer&Sharp AmSocRvu 25#2 (4/62)
p226 Members of the Jewish, Greek Orthodox, and Semi-Christian faiths
appear to have made the greatest achievements, given the system followed
here. Behind these three groups are the several major Protestant
denominations, with Baptists ranking below those white Detroiters who have no
religious preference. For both whites and Negroes, the Catholics have the
least economic success as measured by our index.. TO sumarize our findings as
they apply to white residents of greater Detroit: (1) Jews, followed closely
by Episcopaleans and Calvinists, have achieved the greatest worldly
success. In the middle range are the remaining Protestant groups, with
Baptists falling toward the end of the economic scale. Catholics have
achieved the least. (2) If an ascription "handicap" is considered, the
Eastern Orthodox group, closely followed by adherents of the Semi-Christian
faiths, join the Jewish group at the top of the scale
---
Lehrer Religion as Det Edu Attainment Soc Sci Rsc 28 1999
Ceteris paribus, the educational attainment of Jews exceeds that of
mainline Protestants by approximately 1.2-1.3 years; at the same time, the
schooling level of fundamentalist Protestants is lower than that of mainline
Protestants by about 0.3-0.4 years
---
Soros by Kaufman 0-375-40585-2 [Compare to Rsen/Kornich p260]
p22 He arrived feeling extremeley proud of himself for making the trip
on his own and was warmly congratulated by his father for the
resourcefulness and maturity he had shown. It was not until many years
later that he learned his father had paid a streetwise acquaintance to
follow his son and make sure that all went well. This was Tivadar's
basic educational approach: to encourage confidence and curiosity, to
stimulate initiative, and to help his osns prepare for inevitable
unanticipated challenges by developing such survival skills as good
judgement, athletic ability, and a sense of responsibility
---
1st3yrChild Karl Konig Floris2004 FrGstlbnStuttgt1957 ISBN0-86315-452-2
p37 With the extraordinary manifoldness of the syllables he can
form, he has the possibility [unused parts of which atrophy at the
second year] of learning any possible language. It is also of
importance to realize that children born deaf babble to the same
degree and extent as those who can hear
p39 end of the eighteenth month. During this period the child
acquires between forty and sevety words, which he uses as one-word
sentences [postWW2 biz Japanese was restricted to 250 words to
increase literacy and decrease dialects]
p40 eighteenth to the twenty-fourth months, the child lives in the
realm of speech that is connected with 'anming'
p41 number of words grows, but they also begin to be
differentiated.. toward the end of the second year the child has
acquired the building stones for forming he first primitive sentences
p43 One's native language unfolds astonishingly quickly in the
course of the third year.. Words begin to develop, to be inflected and
changed [vjp2 argues it is at this stage that ambilingualism allows
the thought process to develop supralingually, unconstrained by any
single language's bounds]
p46 'saying,' 'naming' and 'talking'.. abnormalities can only be
unterstood as the falling apart of this threefoldedness, which must
become a unity in the speaking if speech is to express itself, and the
inharmonious working together of these three members and the inability
to weld them together or keep them apart
p51 Speeech is like a plough that works the field of the soul so
that the seed of future thought achievement can be laid into the open
furrows
p54 Something like the theory of categories as they were first
discovered and described by Aristotle becomes laive in the speaking
child
p58 At the transistion from the Atlantean to the post-Atlantean
cultural epoch around 8000 BC, the change from localized to rhythmical
memory took place. When the high cultures of Asia Minor were succeeded
by that of Greece, at about the time of the Trojan War and the laying
of the foundation stone of Europe, rhythmicall memory changed into
picture memories
p60 When a two-year-old child demands that the same thing should
happen every day at the same time, or that a fairy tale must be
repeated with the same expressions, and accents of feeling, it is
indicative of the rhythmic memory that govers that age. Toward the end
of the third year memory ideas become more frequent and insert
themselves widely int the totality of memories
p62 Just as fantasy is bound up with playing, so does memory work
in close union with speaking. The faculty of memory is most intimately
connected with the faculty of naming because one truly remembers only
what is to be named
p63 Memory on the other hand is the result of the child's painful
collision with the world
p67 Thinking overtakes speech. It runs ahead of it and speech
formulations themselves already come partl under the power of the
child's own thoughts. It is no longer speech alone that utters the
words, but the child's thought experience begins to make use of
speech. Movement and speech, which so far have followed rather
autocratically their own laws, come under the rulership of
contemplation and judgement. Step by step thought becomes king of the
soul, whose functions bow down under its light-filled majesty
p71 At the awakeing of thinking something becomes apparent that is
not so obvious in the case of walking and speaking, namely that all
three faculties have metamorphosed out of pre-earthly activities in
rder to appear in the child in an earthly garment.. sleeping thinking
awakens at the call ofthe personality that finds itself [in fact,
human personality develops, adapted to its environment, by age five,
in place of animal in-born instinct, as the human brain is the only
one not born fully developed, hardwiring persoanilty by five]
p72 The ego is born in the awakening thinking, and the result of
this even is the age of defiance that now follows. Neither is it the
hour of the birth of the higher ego, but rather the death of it. What
now comes to light is the lower ego, which will accompanay man through
the whole of his earthly life
---
Feinstein & Symons Attainment 2'school Oxf Eco Ppr 4/99 51#2
p316 The major influence on attainment is parental interest
p317 peer groups also have a significant effect on attainment.. confirm the
'parents and peers' theory of educational attainment for children in British
secondary schools as emphasised by Robertson and Symons (1996) for children
in primary schools
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
23 Feb 2006 06:42:59 PM |
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Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> wrote:
ramanujan was no einstein. he was an semi-idiot savant.
He was one of the greatest (and wierdest) mathematicians of all times.
His collected set of problems will be keeping more conventional
mathematicians busy for the next 200 years. Most mathematicians get
their stuff through logic. A Hindu Goddess inspired Rama.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Ira Humperdink MD" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
28 Feb 2006 01:17:22 AM |
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ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
einstein was also a one-trick pony. you take away physics and what
does einstein know about? art? law? literature? theatre? women?
clothes? buahahahahaa!
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| User: "Herman Rubin" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
28 Feb 2006 04:32:48 PM |
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In article <1141111042.905017.231870@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> wrote:
ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
Whether he could explain mathematics, he could understand it.
He certainly did not play sports, so? His writings are a
reasonable sample of English mathematical writing.
My son, at age 6, had a strong understanding of logic and
ordinary algebra, but could not explain it to his baby
sitter, who was taking algebra.
einstein was also a one-trick pony. you take away physics and what
does einstein know about? art? law? literature? theatre? women?
clothes? buahahahahaa!
Einstein was an concert-level violinist, even at an early
age. As to what he knew about women, he got married twice.
He had a much better understanding of literature than you
seem to think possible.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
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| User: "Zuo Tung" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
01 Mar 2006 06:32:08 PM |
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Are you saying that all concert-level violinists and people who cannot
succeed in a marriage are equal to einstein?
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article <1141111042.905017.231870@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> wrote:
ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
Whether he could explain mathematics, he could understand it.
He certainly did not play sports, so? His writings are a
reasonable sample of English mathematical writing.
My son, at age 6, had a strong understanding of logic and
ordinary algebra, but could not explain it to his baby
sitter, who was taking algebra.
einstein was also a one-trick pony. you take away physics and what
does einstein know about? art? law? literature? theatre? women?
clothes? buahahahahaa!
Einstein was an concert-level violinist, even at an early
age. As to what he knew about women, he got married twice.
He had a much better understanding of literature than you
seem to think possible.
.
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| User: "Herman Rubin" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
02 Mar 2006 12:16:40 PM |
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In article <du5ee6$22f4$3@agate.berkeley.edu>,
Zuo Tung <ztjt@newdeal.org> wrote:
Are you saying that all concert-level violinists and people who cannot
succeed in a marriage are equal to einstein?
You are confusing two posts. Humperdinck stated that
Einstein was ONLY a physicist. I pointed out that he
was also a concert-level violinist and was married twice,
to indicate that he was not a "one-trick pony".
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article <1141111042.905017.231870@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> wrote:
ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
Whether he could explain mathematics, he could understand it.
He certainly did not play sports, so? His writings are a
reasonable sample of English mathematical writing.
My son, at age 6, had a strong understanding of logic and
ordinary algebra, but could not explain it to his baby
sitter, who was taking algebra.
einstein was also a one-trick pony. you take away physics and what
does einstein know about? art? law? literature? theatre? women?
clothes? buahahahahaa!
Einstein was an concert-level violinist, even at an early
age. As to what he knew about women, he got married twice.
He had a much better understanding of literature than you
seem to think possible.
--
This address is for information only. I do not claim that these views
are those of the Statistics Department or of Purdue University.
Herman Rubin, Department of Statistics, Purdue University
hrubin@stat.purdue.edu Phone: (765)494-6054 FAX: (765)494-0558
.
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| User: "Zuo Tung" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
02 Mar 2006 01:59:29 PM |
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One trick or two tricks, he was an idiot savant.
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article <du5ee6$22f4$3@agate.berkeley.edu>,
Zuo Tung <ztjt@newdeal.org> wrote:
Are you saying that all concert-level violinists and people who cannot
succeed in a marriage are equal to einstein?
You are confusing two posts. Humperdinck stated that
Einstein was ONLY a physicist. I pointed out that he
was also a concert-level violinist and was married twice,
to indicate that he was not a "one-trick pony".
Herman Rubin wrote:
In article <1141111042.905017.231870@t39g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>,
Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> wrote:
ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
Whether he could explain mathematics, he could understand it.
He certainly did not play sports, so? His writings are a
reasonable sample of English mathematical writing.
My son, at age 6, had a strong understanding of logic and
ordinary algebra, but could not explain it to his baby
sitter, who was taking algebra.
einstein was also a one-trick pony. you take away physics and what
does einstein know about? art? law? literature? theatre? women?
clothes? buahahahahaa!
Einstein was an concert-level violinist, even at an early
age. As to what he knew about women, he got married twice.
He had a much better understanding of literature than you
seem to think possible.
.
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| User: "smith" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
04 Mar 2006 12:43:03 AM |
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Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> =E5=AF=AB=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
you are wrong.
ramanujan got many subjects (included english) an excellent grade
in high school, he even got award in english writing when he was young
he devoted all his time to mathematics later after he was fascinated by
it
and that's why he did poorly later in other subjects
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| User: "camy" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
04 Mar 2006 03:58:51 AM |
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mensch!! has this janitorman ever been right?he is dog *****.
smith wrote:
Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> =E5=AF=AB=E9=81=93=EF=BC=
=9A
ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
you are wrong.
ramanujan got many subjects (included english) an excellent grade
in high school, he even got award in english writing when he was young
he devoted all his time to mathematics later after he was fascinated by
it
and that's why he did poorly later in other subjects
.
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| User: "Zuo Tung" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
06 Mar 2006 01:49:24 PM |
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Ramanujan was a genius.
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Ramanujan.html
camy wrote:
mensch!! has this janitorman ever been right?he is dog *****.
smith wrote:
Ira Humperdink MD <irahumperdinkMD@hotmail.com> 寫é“：
ramanujan had below average intelligence in every subject except for
his particular brand of math. the man could barely utter a complete
sentence, and i bet he could not write a decent essay or explain simple
algebra to a 10th grader. he could not appreciate art. he did not
play sports. in short, he was a one-trick pony.
you are wrong.
ramanujan got many subjects (included english) an excellent grade
in high school, he even got award in english writing when he was young
he devoted all his time to mathematics later after he was fascinated by
it
and that's why he did poorly later in other subjects
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
06 Mar 2006 02:24:43 PM |
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In article <473i7mFcp2kjU1@individual.net>, "Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> writes:
Zuo Tung wrote:
Ramanujan was a genius.
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Ramanujan.html
There are two kinds of genius. Smart and magical.
A smart genius: If I only had 30 more iq points I could do what he does.
A magical genius: I could not do what he does in a million years.
Yes, exactly.
Ramanujan was a magical genius. No one has been able to figure out how
he came up with his stuff. Rama claimed a Hindu Goddess told him things.
I have no reason to doubt him.
And it won't matter whether we doubt him or not, since we can't even
come close to grasping his thought processes.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Zuo Tung" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
06 Mar 2006 02:52:40 PM |
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Obviously, since he is dead.
mmeron@cars3.uchicago.edu wrote:
In article <473i7mFcp2kjU1@individual.net>, "Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> writes:
Zuo Tung wrote:
Ramanujan was a genius.
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Ramanujan.html
There are two kinds of genius. Smart and magical.
A smart genius: If I only had 30 more iq points I could do what he does.
A magical genius: I could not do what he does in a million years.
Yes, exactly.
Ramanujan was a magical genius. No one has been able to figure out how
he came up with his stuff. Rama claimed a Hindu Goddess told him things.
I have no reason to doubt him.
And it won't matter whether we doubt him or not, since we can't even
come close to grasping his thought processes.
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
06 Mar 2006 01:51:37 PM |
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Zuo Tung wrote:
Ramanujan was a genius.
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Ramanujan.html
There are two kinds of genius. Smart and magical.
A smart genius: If I only had 30 more iq points I could do what he does.
A magical genius: I could not do what he does in a million years.
Ramanujan was a magical genius. No one has been able to figure out how
he came up with his stuff. Rama claimed a Hindu Goddess told him things.
I have no reason to doubt him.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Why are Asians so good at math? |
05 Apr 2006 09:44:03 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Zuo Tung wrote:
Ramanujan was a genius.
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Ramanujan.html
There are two kinds of genius. Smart and magical.
A smart genius: If I only had 30 more iq points I could do what he does.
A magical genius: I could not do what he does in a million years.
Ramanujan was a magical genius. No one has been able to figure out how
he came up with his stuff. Rama claimed a Hindu Goddess told him things.
I have no reason to doubt him.
Ramanujan is no more a magical genius than pen and teller are real
wizards (same goes for Gauss, Euler, etc). They're all tricks and
clever manipulations performed by people who see meaning beyond the
sequence of symbols most call "mathematics". Ramanujan was an expert in
manipulating formalisms and able to get specific results of no
(obvious) utility, albeit interesting. His perceived genius is a
consequence of his non-orthodox, autodidact education.
Bob Kolker
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