| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Habshi" |
| Date: |
24 Jan 2004 08:07:52 AM |
| Object: |
Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
Apparently the last water on the surface vanished a billion
years or more ago , and now we have endless duststorms . On earth the
wind can wear down even the Himalayas in less than a few million years
, so why have Martian duststorms not done the same to Mars and since
its not volcanically or ectonically active there should be no new
mountains.
So the fact that it is not smooth means that the water must
still flow regularly.
bbc excerpt
The camera can see details down to two metres and German researchers
working on the mission have even constructed computer-generated movies
from the pictures to show what it would be like to fly over the Red
Planet in an aircraft.
The camera's lead scientist, Gerhard Neukum, from the Free University
in Berlin, said Mars Express had already imaged nearly two million
square kilometres of the Martian surface.
The area, covered at a resolution of 10 to 15 metres per pixel, was
equivalent to the land coverage of France, Germany, Italy, Spain,
Portugal and Austria combined, he said.
His team has already received more than 100 gigabytes of processed
data - most of which has not even been looked at yet.
"We have done some instant science and I think we can firmly say 'yes,
there was water acting on the surface of Mars'," Professor Neukum
said.
His pictures show what appear to be sediments left in water-cut
valleys and at the bottoms of craters which other instruments on the
probe will now try to identify. There were also features that had been
pictured that appeared to be evidence of glaciation, he added.
Sun erosion
It is still very early in the two-year mission of Mars Express, but
project scientists say they are thrilled with the initial returns of
data they are getting from the spacecraft.
"We have already identified water vapour in the atmosphere and
water-ice in the soil on the southern polar cap," said Vittorio
Formisano, who looks after the probe's Planetary Fourier Spectrometer.
Mars Express can detect traces of water-ice on the surface
Enlarge Image
"We can identify water directly on the planet," added Jean-Pierre
Bibring, from the Institute of Space Astrophysics, Orsay, France.
"It's mixed with CO2 essentially but if we go to areas which are a
little warmer where there is no CO2, we have remaining water there."
At the end of the mission, he said, scientists should know the precise
volume of water-ice still remaining on the planet's surface.
The US space agency's Mars Odyssey orbiter has already given a strong
indication that there is water-ice on the southern pole. Its
assessment comes from the use of a gamma ray spectrometer, which
detects hydrogen, which with oxygen makes up water.
The Mars Express data amounts to a confirmation, because it arrives at
the same conclusion but by a different technique: its Omega
spectrometer analyses visible and infrared light rather than the gamma
part of the energy spectrum.
Rickard Lundin, from the Swedish Institute of Space Science, is
studying how the Sun is eroding the Martian atmosphere with an
instrument called the Energetic Neutral Atoms Analyser.
"It shows us the 'planetary wind' which essentially describes water
escape - but in an indirect way because what we see coming [off Mars]
is oxygen and the oxygen is most likely coming from water."
Mars Express arrived at the Red Planet on 25 December. It operates
from a polar orbit that takes it between 300 and 11,000 km from the
planet's surface.
European scientists want the mission to:
map the mineral composition of the surface at 100-m resolution
map the composition of the atmosphere and determine its global
circulation
determine the structure of the sub-surface to a depth of a few
kilometres
determine the effect of the atmosphere on the surface
and determine the interaction of the atmosphere with the solar wind
At the heart of the mission is the desire to understand the history
and current state of water on the planet which may say something about
the presence of life - currently or in the far-distant past.
So far, Mars Express has performed flawlessly. The one disappointment
has been the loss of its lander probe, Beagle 2.
The British-built robot has not been heard from since it fell through
the Martian atmosphere on Christmas Day.
All images are courtesy of the European Space Agency
The Red Planet: some facts
LOCATION: Mars is the fourth planet from the Sun, orbiting at a mean
distance of 227.9 million kilometres, about half as much again as the
distance between the Sun and Earth.
DIAMETER: 6,794kms. By comparison, Earth's diameter is 12,756kms
MARTIAN DAY: 24 hours 37 minutes and 22 seconds
MARTIAN YEAR: 669 martian days (687 Earth days)
TEMPERATURE: Average - 55 C (- 67 F). Minimum: - 133 C (- 207.4 F), at
the poles in winter. Maximum temperature: 27 C (80.6 F) in summer on
equator
ATMOSPHERE: Composition 95.32 percent carbon dioxide (CO2), 2.7
percent nitrogen, 1.6 percent argon, 0.13 percent oxygen. Pressure at
surface is less than 1/100th Earth's atmospheric pressure.
LANDSCAPE: Rocky, dusty and dry, although some scientists speculate
water lurks close to surface. Northern hemisphere is smooth and flat,
southern hemisphere is deeply cratered, rugged highlands. North pole
has a large, permanent cap of what is believed to be mainly water ice.
South pole has a small cap, which may be frozen carbon dioxide (CO2)
and almost disappears during the martian summer.
MAJOR FEATURES: Olympus Mons, at 26,000 metres, the highest known
volcano in the Solar System; Tharsis Dome, a mysterious bulge 10kms
high and 4,000kms across; Valles Marineris, a canyon 4,000kms long and
up to seven kms deep.
MOONS: Phobos, diameter 22 kms (13.75 miles), orbit 5,981 km (3,738
miles) from surface; Deimos, diameter 12 kms (eight miles), orbit
20,062 kms (12,538 miles) from surface.
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| User: "Marx @ www.paf.li" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 12:33:38 PM |
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"Habshi" <habshi@anony.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:401279e0.3328806@news.clara.net...
Apparently the last water on the surface
vanished a billion years or more ago, [...]
[...] "We have done some instant science
and I think we can firmly say 'yes, there was
water acting on the surface of Mars',"
Professor Neukum said.
We suppose that your Prof is Green & Small,
knowing all this?
Remember that 1/2 century ago, when Mars'
surface was still unknown & that kind of
scientist still believed in its "canals", from
the RHNH Velikovsky as a consequence of
Mars' destruction after its encounter with the
new Venus (French: "newly arrived") claimed
its surface to be moon-like, & most of its water
dispersed during the event (about which we
know from the observational tradition).
So, just like on earth, the observable traces of
water action are the remains of transgression
waves, destroying everything & all on their way
across the mainland in a matter of only days,
if not merely hours (earth time).
Facts which disprove the Prof to be Green
& Small, leaving him only quite normally
sci.Stupid (& therefore well paid). & also
not giving us any qualified idea of Mars' age.
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| User: "S. Enterprize Company" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 08:48:29 AM |
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Apparently the last water on the surface vanished a billion
years or more ago , and now we have endless duststorms . On earth the
wind can wear down even the Himalayas in less than a few million years
, so why have Martian duststorms not done the same to Mars and since
its not volcanically or ectonically active there should be no new
mountains.
So the fact that it is not smooth means that the water must
still flow regularly.
<SNIP>
This solar system is young. It's not billions of years old. There probably
was a lot of oxygen and water on Mars at one time, a few thousand years ago.
But due to the harsh weather conditions and volcanic activity, the oxygen was
used up in the burning process and was converted into CO2, and the O2 couldn't
be replaced because plants couldn't survive the weather conditions. The surface
water may have just went into underground caverns.
I don't think there was as much water on Mars as Earth to start with. So
the rest of the little water there probably just went underground.
Smart's Alt. Physics News Group
http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=3320272813&cpv=1
S. Enterprize (Science Journal)
http://smart1234.s-enterprize.com/
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 06:59:58 PM |
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In sci.physics, S. Enterprize Company
<smart1234@aol.com>
wrote
on 24 Jan 2004 14:48:29 GMT
<20040124094829.13053.00000716@mb-m02.aol.com>:
Apparently the last water on the surface vanished a billion
years or more ago , and now we have endless duststorms . On earth the
wind can wear down even the Himalayas in less than a few million years
, so why have Martian duststorms not done the same to Mars and since
its not volcanically or ectonically active there should be no new
mountains.
So the fact that it is not smooth means that the water must
still flow regularly.
<SNIP>
This solar system is young. It's not billions of years old.
There probably was a lot of oxygen and water on Mars at one time,
a few thousand years ago.
OK, dumb question time; are you a YECcie? Otherwise known as
a Young Earth Creationist?
We've found fossiles hundreds of millions of years old on Earth,
for example.
But due to the harsh weather conditions and volcanic activity,
the oxygen was used up in the burning process and was converted
into CO2, and the O2 couldn't be replaced because plants couldn't
survive the weather conditions. The surface
water may have just went into underground caverns.
Frozen water doesn't move very fast.
I don't think there was as much water on Mars as Earth to
start with. So the rest of the little water there probably just
went underground.
Not an unreasonable conclusion regarding the amount of water,
as Mars is smaller. Of course, I'm not sure about the
underground bit.
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 09:16:17 AM |
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S. Enterprize Company wrote:
This solar system is young. It's not billions of years old.
Potassium Argon dating puts the age of Earth in the nbhd of four
billions years. You really have a lame brain. Truly.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "S. Enterprize Company" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 11:18:16 AM |
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S. Enterprize Company wrote:
This solar system is young. It's not billions of years old.
Potassium Argon dating puts the age of Earth in the nbhd of four
billions years. You really have a lame brain. Truly.
Bob Kolker
Cosmic dust that made this solar system was already that old due to
recycling universes. So if a make a car with old parts yesterday, the car is
100 years old? You atheists are all the same, running out of time and excuses.
Smart's Alt. Physics News Group
http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=3320272813&cpv=1
S. Enterprize (Science Journal)
http://smart1234.s-enterprize.com/
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| User: "Michael Moroney" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 02:18:02 PM |
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(S. Enterprize Company) writes:
This solar system is young. It's not billions of years old.
Potassium Argon dating puts the age of Earth in the nbhd of four
billions years. You really have a lame brain. Truly.
Cosmic dust that made this solar system was already that old due to
recycling universes. So if a make a car with old parts yesterday, the car is
100 years old? You atheists are all the same, running out of time and excuses.
Bzzzt. The potassium-argon clock is "reset" when the rock is molten.
(The argon escapes) Potassium Argon dating gives the time since the rock
was last molten, whether as lava/magma or when the earth was formed.
--
-Mike
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| User: "David T" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 10:11:43 AM |
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Ever looked closely at the human skin? Expand a baby's bottom to the
size of Mars and I think you'll find that Mars is smoother than a
baby's bottom... ;-)
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 10:29:31 AM |
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David T wrote:
Ever looked closely at the human skin? Expand a baby's bottom to the
size of Mars and I think you'll find that Mars is smoother than a
baby's bottom... ;-)\
Proportionally, Earth is smother than a classical ivory billiard ball.
So why not mars?
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Bruce Scott TOK" |
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| Title: Re: Why isnt Mars as smooth as a baby's bottom? |
24 Jan 2004 10:07:29 AM |
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Habshi wrote:
|> Apparently the last water on the surface vanished a billion
|> years or more ago , and now we have endless duststorms . On earth the
|> wind can wear down even the Himalayas in less than a few million years
|> , so why have Martian duststorms not done the same to Mars and since
|> its not volcanically or ectonically active there should be no new
|> mountains.
|> So the fact that it is not smooth means that the water must
|> still flow regularly.
In almost all terrestrial environs, including most desert ones, most of
the weathering is done by water.
In the high Himalayas, the dominant processes have to do with freeze and
thaw.
--
cu,
Bruce
drift wave turbulence: http://www.rzg.mpg.de/~bds/
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