Will and Purpose



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Laurent"
Date: 21 Jan 2008 09:23:36 AM
Object: Will and Purpose
Why does matter tries to better itself, where does this syntropy comes
from? Is the best possible choice always selected? I tend to think it
is a phenomenon ruled by the laws of Thermodynamics, the path of less
resistance, or the most energy efficient and meaningful, useful
process, but, at the same time, I think the aether is spirit, or will,
that it is where energy comes from. Will that comes from an urge to
fight entropy, to gather, order and preserve information, i.e., atoms
and DNA.
Electrons always move the same way, just like magnetic fields always
obey the rules. Those things are controlled by an other thing, they
can't choose which way to move. According to fact, the universe is
ruled by four forces and logic, the rest happens by chance. The aether
acts as a traffic light which directs the energy flow as required by
all types of field interactions. There are no decisions being taken,
electric and magnetic fields will always interact in the same exact
manner. Neither the universe, nor 'Consciousness', or whatever you
prefer to call it, cares about us. If there were such an all knowing
'Mind', then why would it be taking so long (13.7 billion years and
counting)?
We can't use subjectivity to understand or explain objective reality.
Love, purpose... these things have meaning to us, but neither Science,
nor the universe cares about what those things mean to us. To
understand and explain reality, we must look at it in an objective
way, and the facts say that the aether... God... Mind...
Consciousness... or whatever, is just a thing with no purpose. It can
neither see, nor think, until process turns it into brains with eyes.
We see and think for it... and we like it and want to continue, that's
where purpose comes from... we have purpose, the aether does not.
There is matter because there is will, will is synonymous to energy,
in my view. It is probably some built-in algorithm integrated into
biological matter's morphic waves which makes information to grow, to
continue existing and preserve itself at the same time. Where does
this algorithm comes from? Natural selection? In see this information
gathering function of self-animated matter as a representation of a
process ruled by a syntropic principle. It is active information.
Nature is driven by a hunger, an urge to continue to exist, to order
reality, to preserve and gather information that guarantees its long
term survival. It is what makes us continue, it is what makes all
matter continue, this is the reason why this process seems to follow a
preferred time line.
In his great book 'Answer to Job', Carl Jung said: " The importance of
consciousness is so great that one cannot help suspecting the element
of meaning to be concealed somewhere within all the monstrous,
apparently senseless biological turmoil, and that the road to its
manifestation was ultimately found on the level of warm-blooded
vertebrates possessed of a differentiated brain -- found as if by
chance, unintended and unforeseen, and yet somehow sensed, felt and
groped for out of some dark urge. "
Whether you can call it God or not would depend on what you think God
is. To me God is a thing incapable of thinking or feeling until matter
and brains come into existence. Many call it Cosmic Consciousness,
others call it Mind, but they are all referring to same thing I am
talking about, a universal being. The aether, like God, is
omnipresent, eternal, with no beginning and no ending, it is one. The
aether is the seat to all fields, and without fields there can be no
universe. Therefore, it is the source of everything there is. Will is
inherent to matter because matter sits on aether. Energy (Aether), or
Will (Spirit) without purpose, is, but does not exist... until it
turns into spacetime, purpose comes after.
If we are to understand what David Chalmers, director of the Centre
for Consciousness at the Australian National University, calls 'the
hard problem', or to answer 'What is that which is?' we need the
notion of an aether. After all, what is real, this ever changing
material reality or the eternal? The aether is that which is. It is
immutable, it is now what it always was, and there is nothing in this
universe that you can say that about simply because matter is in
constant change, what was five seconds ago is no longer.
God is but can't exist unless it exists as matter, as a universe. I
see the universe as God in its material form, and matter as a way to
get the information it needs to constantly re-create itself. The
universe is where information comes from, and that's what existing is
all about... seeing and learning. There is no death, only renewal.
As long as the basic laws remain the same, the universe will always
anthropomorphize itself in the sense that whatever comes out as its
top product will likely have many of the qualities characteristic to
human beings. We were not created in God's image, the universe created
itself in man's image because humanoids were the most likely outcome
in this planet after dinosaurs disappeared. Make any changes to any of
the fundamental forces, and we may not even get a universe. But as
long as the laws remain the same, we will always end up with something
similar to what we have now. It could happen anywhere in this universe
but, sooner or later, as long as there is matter, it will eventually
happen, it is the way of Nature.
We are just biological units God (or whatever you want to call it)
employs to see the world, to exist. In this sense, we truly are God's
servants. Look at birds, all they want in life is to get somewhere
where they can mate and have offsprings, provide for them, and then
die. Same with salmon, in their world, getting to the top of that
mountain is all that counts. To them, that is what life is all about,
that's the information world they live in. Now... we... us, after 14
billion years of evolution, are Nature's top product. We get God (the
Universe) the best information possible. Because of the way we see the
world and our ability to process the information we gather through our
senses, we are God's most efficient source of usable, valuable, and
specially meaningful information. A pigeon's life story may be a
beautiful thing, but that isn't enough, not enough information...
compared to what we humans can gather and provide.
You may say - but how am I connected to God, how can God be every man,
or every man be God? Well, that's why I am so obsessed with the
concept of an aether, or empty space, if you prefer to call it that.
Remember, in this view, and thanks to wholeness; state, not knowledge,
spreads throughout the whole universe instantaneously. Empty space is
everywhere (aether permeates everything), it is the space between the
points. And the points, the particles, are just clusters, nodes of
information floating in that empty space. Empty space is not what
separates us, it is what unites us! The aether is like God in the
sense that it is one, that it is eternal, and because this empty space
permeates everything, it does not need to move. So, it doesn't matter
where you are, you could be a man in Moscow, in Montreal or in
Beijing... you would still be connected to God through the empty space
in which the universe sits.
When your thoughts wander away, what brings them back, what makes you
pay attention? But this thing can neither think nor see by itself, it
needs our brains to do it. There is will, energy, matter and then
there comes consciousness and purpose. When we learn how this
wandering of the mind happens, then we can learn how to control it.
Eventually, this understanding of the process of mind, is what gives
us tranquility while allowing the mind to continue wandering, as it is
required by Nature.
'I think, therefore, I am' - Descartes used to say. I say, I think,
therefore, I exist. I agree with Carl Jung's materialistic
interpretation, the collective unconscious as a field, where fields
are considered to be matter. Teilhard de Chardin called it the
Noosphere. Tapping the collective unconscious is the thing. The
noisier your brain is, the harder it is to tap into this field.
Your brain, Nature's top product on this part of the universe, will be
doing what it created itself to do... and that was, like I said, to
gather the best available information in order to better understand
and enjoy existence... always thriving to maintain a state of well
being, stability and tranquility. Uncertainty is what drives the
universe. God knows as much as we do, and the day we know everything
will be the day the universe freezes over.
God (Aether) is Spirit, Will without purpose... pure energy [which is
neither hot nor bright]. Aether is the physicalists' God. Maybe that's
why the meaning of the word aether is 'maker', or, 'the fire that
builds'.
--
Laurent
.

User: "xxein"

Title: Re: Will and Purpose 21 Jan 2008 09:17:52 PM
On Jan 21, 10:23=A0am, Laurent <cyberd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why does matter tries to better itself, where does this syntropy comes
from? Is the best possible choice always selected? I tend to think it
is a phenomenon ruled by the laws of Thermodynamics, the path of less
resistance, or the most energy efficient and meaningful, useful
process, but, at the same time, I think the aether is spirit, or will,
that it is where energy comes from. Will that comes from an urge to
fight entropy, to gather, order and preserve information, i.e., atoms
and DNA.

Electrons always move the same way, just like magnetic fields always
obey the rules. Those things are controlled by an other thing, they
can't choose which way to move. According to fact, the universe is
ruled by four forces and logic, the rest happens by chance. The aether
acts as a traffic light which directs the energy flow as required by
all types of field interactions. There are no decisions being taken,
electric and magnetic fields will always interact in the same exact
manner. Neither the universe, nor 'Consciousness', or whatever you
prefer to call it, cares about us. If there were such an all knowing
'Mind', then why would it be taking so long (13.7 billion years and
counting)?

We can't use subjectivity to understand or explain objective reality.
Love, purpose... these things have meaning to us, but neither Science,
nor the universe cares about what those things mean to us. To
understand and explain reality, we must look at it in an objective
way, and the facts say that the aether... God... Mind...
Consciousness... or whatever, is just a thing with no purpose. It can
neither see, nor think, until process turns it into brains with eyes.
We see and think for it... and we like it and want to continue, that's
where purpose comes from... we have purpose, the aether does not.

There is matter because there is will, will is synonymous to energy,
in my view. It is probably some built-in algorithm integrated into
biological matter's morphic waves which makes information to grow, to
continue existing and preserve itself at the same time. Where does
this algorithm comes from? Natural selection? In see this information
gathering function of self-animated matter as a representation of a
process ruled by a syntropic principle. It is active information.
Nature is driven by a hunger, an urge to continue to exist, to order
reality, to preserve and gather information that guarantees its long
term survival. It is what makes us continue, it is what makes all
matter continue, this is the reason why this process seems to follow a
preferred time line.

In his great book 'Answer to Job', Carl Jung said: " The importance of
consciousness is so great that one cannot help suspecting the element
of meaning to be concealed somewhere within all the monstrous,
apparently senseless biological turmoil, and that the road to its
manifestation was ultimately found on the level of warm-blooded
vertebrates possessed of a differentiated brain -- found as if by
chance, unintended and unforeseen, and yet somehow sensed, felt and
groped for out of some dark urge. "

Whether you can call it God or not would depend on what you think God
is. To me God is a thing incapable of thinking or feeling until matter
and brains come into existence. Many call it Cosmic Consciousness,
others call it Mind, but they are all referring to same thing I am
talking about, a universal being. The aether, like God, is
omnipresent, eternal, with no beginning and no ending, it is one. The
aether is the seat to all fields, and without fields there can be no
universe. Therefore, it is the source of everything there is. Will is
inherent to matter because matter sits on aether. Energy (Aether), or
Will (Spirit) without purpose, is, but does not exist... until it
turns into spacetime, purpose comes after.

If we are to understand what David Chalmers, director of the Centre
for Consciousness at the Australian National University, calls 'the
hard problem', or to answer 'What is that which is?' we need the
notion of an aether. After all, what is real, this ever changing
material reality or the eternal? The aether is that which is. It is
immutable, it is now what it always was, and there is nothing in this
universe that you can say that about simply because matter is in
constant change, what was five seconds ago is no longer.

God is but can't exist unless it exists as matter, as a universe. I
see the universe as God in its material form, and matter as a way to
get the information it needs to constantly re-create itself. The
universe is where information comes from, and that's what existing is
all about... seeing and learning. There is no death, only renewal.

As long as the basic laws remain the same, the universe will always
anthropomorphize itself in the sense that whatever comes out as its
top product will likely have many of the qualities characteristic to
human beings. We were not created in God's image, the universe created
itself in man's image because humanoids were the most likely outcome
in this planet after dinosaurs disappeared. Make any changes to any of
the fundamental forces, and we may not even get a universe. But as
long as the laws remain the same, we will always end up with something
similar to what we have now. It could happen anywhere in this universe
but, sooner or later, as long as there is matter, it will eventually
happen, it is the way of Nature.

We are just biological units God (or whatever you want to call it)
employs to see the world, to exist. In this sense, we truly are God's
servants. Look at birds, all they want in life is to get somewhere
where they can mate and have offsprings, provide for them, and then
die. Same with salmon, in their world, getting to the top of that
mountain is all that counts. To them, that is what life is all about,
that's the information world they live in. Now... we... us, after 14
billion years of evolution, are Nature's top product. We get God (the
Universe) the best information possible. Because of the way we see the
world and our ability to process the information we gather through our
senses, we are God's most efficient source of usable, valuable, and
specially meaningful information. A pigeon's life story may be a
beautiful thing, but that isn't enough, not enough information...
compared to what we humans can gather and provide.

You may say - but how am I connected to God, how can God be every man,
or every man be God? Well, that's why I am so obsessed with the
concept of an aether, or empty space, if you prefer to call it that.
Remember, in this view, and thanks to wholeness; state, not knowledge,
spreads throughout the whole universe instantaneously. Empty space is
everywhere (aether permeates everything), it is the space between the
points. And the points, the particles, are just clusters, nodes of
information floating in that empty space. Empty space is not what
separates us, it is what unites us! The aether is like God in the
sense that it is one, that it is eternal, and because this empty space
permeates everything, it does not need to move. So, it doesn't matter
where you are, you could be a man in Moscow, in Montreal or in
Beijing... you would still be connected to God through the empty space
in which the universe sits.

When your thoughts wander away, what brings them back, what makes you
pay attention? But this thing can neither think nor see by itself, it
needs our brains to do it. There is will, energy, matter and then
there comes consciousness and purpose. When we learn how this
wandering of the mind happens, then we can learn how to control it.
Eventually, this understanding of the process of mind, is what gives
us tranquility while allowing the mind to continue wandering, as it is
required by Nature.

'I think, therefore, I am' - Descartes used to say. I say, I think,
therefore, I exist. I agree with Carl Jung's materialistic
interpretation, the collective unconscious as a field, where fields
are considered to be matter. Teilhard de Chardin called it the
Noosphere. Tapping the collective unconscious is the thing. The
noisier your brain is, the harder it is to tap into this field.

Your brain, Nature's top product on this part of the universe, will be
doing what it created itself to do... and that was, like I said, to
gather the best available information in order to better understand
and enjoy existence... always thriving to maintain a state of well
being, stability and tranquility. Uncertainty is what drives the
universe. God knows as much as we do, and the day we know everything
will be the day the universe freezes over.

God (Aether) is Spirit, Will without purpose... pure energy [which is
neither hot nor bright]. Aether is the physicalists' God. Maybe that's
why the meaning of the word aether is 'maker', or, 'the fire that
builds'.

--
Laurent

xxein: You have some thoughts. Some are better than others. Who
should make the judgement?
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Will and Purpose 22 Jan 2008 11:42:18 AM
On Jan 21, 4:23 pm, Laurent <cyberd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Why does matter tries to better itself, where does this syntropy comes
from? Is the best possible choice always selected? I tend to think it
is a phenomenon ruled by the laws of Thermodynamics, the path of less
resistance, or the most energy efficient and meaningful, useful
process, but, at the same time, I think the aether is spirit, or will,
that it is where energy comes from. Will that comes from an urge to
fight entropy, to gather, order and preserve information, i.e., atoms
and DNA.

Electrons always move the same way, just like magnetic fields always
obey the rules. Those things are controlled by an other thing, they
can't choose which way to move. According to fact, the universe is
ruled by four forces and logic, the rest happens by chance. The aether
acts as a traffic light which directs the energy flow as required by
all types of field interactions. There are no decisions being taken,
electric and magnetic fields will always interact in the same exact
manner. Neither the universe, nor 'Consciousness', or whatever you
prefer to call it, cares about us. If there were such an all knowing
'Mind', then why would it be taking so long (13.7 billion years and
counting)?

We can't use subjectivity to understand or explain objective reality.
Love, purpose... these things have meaning to us, but neither Science,
nor the universe cares about what those things mean to us. To
understand and explain reality, we must look at it in an objective
way, and the facts say that the aether... God... Mind...
Consciousness... or whatever, is just a thing with no purpose. It can
neither see, nor think, until process turns it into brains with eyes.
We see and think for it... and we like it and want to continue, that's
where purpose comes from... we have purpose, the aether does not.

Well can you enlighten us as to what our "purpose" is?

There is matter because there is will, will is synonymous to energy,
in my view. It is probably some built-in algorithm integrated into
biological matter's morphic waves which makes information to grow, to
continue existing and preserve itself at the same time. Where does
this algorithm comes from? Natural selection? In see this information
gathering function of self-animated matter as a representation of a
process ruled by a syntropic principle. It is active information.
Nature is driven by a hunger, an urge to continue to exist, to order
reality, to preserve and gather information that guarantees its long
term survival. It is what makes us continue, it is what makes all
matter continue, this is the reason why this process seems to follow a
preferred time line.

In his great book 'Answer to Job', Carl Jung said: " The importance of
consciousness is so great that one cannot help suspecting the element
of meaning to be concealed somewhere within all the monstrous,
apparently senseless biological turmoil, and that the road to its
manifestation was ultimately found on the level of warm-blooded
vertebrates possessed of a differentiated brain -- found as if by
chance, unintended and unforeseen, and yet somehow sensed, felt and
groped for out of some dark urge. "

Whether you can call it God or not would depend on what you think God
is. To me God is a thing incapable of thinking or feeling until matter
and brains come into existence. Many call it Cosmic Consciousness,
others call it Mind, but they are all referring to same thing I am
talking about, a universal being. The aether, like God, is
omnipresent, eternal, with no beginning and no ending, it is one.

What evidence do you have for that? Aether particles might have
internal structure or even be created or destroyed. Hard to say with
the evidence at hand.

The
aether is the seat to all fields, and without fields there can be no
universe. Therefore, it is the source of everything there is. Will is
inherent to matter because matter sits on aether. Energy (Aether), or
Will (Spirit) without purpose, is, but does not exist... until it
turns into spacetime, purpose comes after.

If we are to understand what David Chalmers, director of the Centre
for Consciousness at the Australian National University, calls 'the
hard problem', or to answer 'What is that which is?' we need the
notion of an aether. After all, what is real, this ever changing
material reality or the eternal? The aether is that which is. It is
immutable, it is now what it always was, and there is nothing in this
universe that you can say that about simply because matter is in
constant change, what was five seconds ago is no longer.

God is but can't exist unless it exists as matter, as a universe. I
see the universe as God in its material form, and matter as a way to
get the information it needs to constantly re-create itself. The
universe is where information comes from, and that's what existing is
all about... seeing and learning. There is no death, only renewal.

As long as the basic laws remain the same, the universe will always
anthropomorphize itself in the sense that whatever comes out as its
top product will likely have many of the qualities characteristic to
human beings. We were not created in God's image, the universe created
itself in man's image because humanoids were the most likely outcome
in this planet after dinosaurs disappeared. Make any changes to any of
the fundamental forces, and we may not even get a universe. But as
long as the laws remain the same, we will always end up with something
similar to what we have now. It could happen anywhere in this universe
but, sooner or later, as long as there is matter, it will eventually
happen, it is the way of Nature.

We are just biological units God (or whatever you want to call it)
employs to see the world, to exist. In this sense, we truly are God's
servants. Look at birds, all they want in life is to get somewhere
where they can mate and have offsprings, provide for them, and then
die. Same with salmon, in their world, getting to the top of that
mountain is all that counts. To them, that is what life is all about,
that's the information world they live in. Now... we... us, after 14
billion years of evolution, are Nature's top product.

*****. Why are we inherently "better" for nature than an ant or
even a rock? Those things have also been evolving at least 14gy.

We get God (the
Universe) the best information possible. Because of the way we see the
world and our ability to process the information we gather through our
senses, we are God's most efficient source of usable, valuable, and
specially meaningful information. A pigeon's life story may be a
beautiful thing, but that isn't enough, not enough information...
compared to what we humans can gather and provide.

Provide what? Why is a human any better at "gathering information for
God" than a rock?
Why are we "better" than a pigeon or a clump of dust in orbit around
Saturn? We simply are, and so is the clump of dust.


You may say - but how am I connected to God, how can God be every man,
or every man be God? Well, that's why I am so obsessed with the
concept of an aether, or empty space, if you prefer to call it that.
Remember, in this view, and thanks to wholeness; state, not knowledge,
spreads throughout the whole universe instantaneously. Empty space is
everywhere (aether permeates everything), it is the space between the
points. And the points, the particles, are just clusters, nodes of
information floating in that empty space. Empty space is not what
separates us, it is what unites us! The aether is like God in the
sense that it is one, that it is eternal, and because this empty space
permeates everything, it does not need to move. So, it doesn't matter
where you are, you could be a man in Moscow, in Montreal or in
Beijing... you would still be connected to God through the empty space
in which the universe sits.

If we must rely on "empty space" to unite us we are going to have some
trouble.
Is the aether is just empty space? As you said it is the forces.. in
"empty space" there exist e.g. a magnetic field, an electric field, a
curvature tensor.. this is not really empty. No such thing as empty
space.


When your thoughts wander away, what brings them back, what makes you
pay attention? But this thing can neither think nor see by itself, it
needs our brains to do it. There is will, energy, matter and then
there comes consciousness and purpose. When we learn how this
wandering of the mind happens, then we can learn how to control it.
Eventually, this understanding of the process of mind, is what gives
us tranquility while allowing the mind to continue wandering, as it is
required by Nature.

'I think, therefore, I am' - Descartes used to say. I say, I think,
therefore, I exist. I agree with Carl Jung's materialistic
interpretation, the collective unconscious as a field, where fields
are considered to be matter. Teilhard de Chardin called it the
Noosphere. Tapping the collective unconscious is the thing. The
noisier your brain is, the harder it is to tap into this field.

Your brain, Nature's top product on this part of the universe, will be
doing what it created itself to do... and that was, like I said, to
gather the best available information in order to better understand
and enjoy existence... always thriving to maintain a state of well
being, stability and tranquility.

Just like your example of the salmon.
Nature's top product for what purpose? Tune the ego down a bit.

Uncertainty is what drives the
universe. God knows as much as we do, and the day we know everything
will be the day the universe freezes over.

God (Aether) is Spirit, Will without purpose... pure energy [which is
neither hot nor bright]. Aether is the physicalists' God. Maybe that's
why the meaning of the word aether is 'maker', or, 'the fire that
builds'.

Thanks for the interesting reading. Can you say more on the etymology
of "Aether"? Where did you get those translations?
.
User: "Laurent"

Title: Re: Will and Purpose 22 Jan 2008 12:34:01 PM
On Jan 22, 12:42=A0pm,
wrote:

On Jan 21, 4:23 pm, Laurent <cyberd...@gmail.com> wrote:





Why does matter tries to better itself, where does this syntropy comes
from? Is the best possible choice always selected? I tend to think it
is a phenomenon ruled by the laws of Thermodynamics, the path of less
resistance, or the most energy efficient and meaningful, useful
process, but, at the same time, I think the aether is spirit, or will,
that it is where energy comes from. Will that comes from an urge to
fight entropy, to gather, order and preserve information, i.e., atoms
and DNA.


Electrons always move the same way, just like magnetic fields always
obey the rules. Those things are controlled by an other thing, they
can't choose which way to move. According to fact, the universe is
ruled by four forces and logic, the rest happens by chance. The aether
acts as a traffic light which directs the energy flow as required by
all types of field interactions. There are no decisions being taken,
electric and magnetic fields will always interact in the same exact
manner. Neither the universe, nor 'Consciousness', or whatever you
prefer to call it, cares about us. If there were such an all knowing
'Mind', then why would it be taking so long (13.7 billion years and
counting)?


We can't use subjectivity to understand or explain objective reality.
Love, purpose... these things have meaning to us, but neither Science,
nor the universe cares about what those things mean to us. To
understand and explain reality, we must look at it in an objective
way, and the facts say that the aether... God... Mind...
Consciousness... or whatever, is just a thing with no purpose. It can
neither see, nor think, until process turns it into brains with eyes.
We see and think for it... and we like it and want to continue, that's
where purpose comes from... we have purpose, the aether does not.


Well can you enlighten us as to what our "purpose" is?





There is matter because there is will, will is synonymous to energy,
in my view. It is probably some built-in algorithm integrated into
biological matter's morphic waves which makes information to grow, to
continue existing and preserve itself at the same time. Where does
this algorithm comes from? Natural selection? In see this information
gathering function of self-animated matter as a representation of a
process ruled by a syntropic principle. It is active information.
Nature is driven by a hunger, an urge to continue to exist, to order
reality, to preserve and gather information that guarantees its long
term survival. It is what makes us continue, it is what makes all
matter continue, this is the reason why this process seems to follow a
preferred time line.


In his great book 'Answer to Job', Carl Jung said: " The importance of
consciousness is so great that one cannot help suspecting the element
of meaning to be concealed somewhere within all the monstrous,
apparently senseless biological turmoil, and that the road to its
manifestation was ultimately found on the level of warm-blooded
vertebrates possessed of a differentiated brain -- found as if by
chance, unintended and unforeseen, and yet somehow sensed, felt and
groped for out of some dark urge. "


Whether you can call it God or not would depend on what you think God
is. To me God is a thing incapable of thinking or feeling until matter
and brains come into existence. Many call it Cosmic Consciousness,
others call it Mind, but they are all referring to same thing I am
talking about, a universal being. The aether, like God, is
omnipresent, eternal, with no beginning and no ending, it is one.


What evidence do you have for that? =A0Aether particles might have
internal structure or even be created or destroyed. =A0Hard to say with
the evidence at hand.





The
aether is the seat to all fields, and without fields there can be no
universe. Therefore, it is the source of everything there is. Will is
inherent to matter because matter sits on aether. Energy (Aether), or
Will (Spirit) without purpose, is, but does not exist... until it
turns into spacetime, purpose comes after.


If we are to understand what David Chalmers, director of the Centre
for Consciousness at the Australian National University, calls 'the
hard problem', or to answer 'What is that which is?' we need the
notion of an aether. After all, what is real, this ever changing
material reality or the eternal? The aether is that which is. It is
immutable, it is now what it always was, and there is nothing in this
universe that you can say that about simply because matter is in
constant change, what was five seconds ago is no longer.


God is but can't exist unless it exists as matter, as a universe. I
see the universe as God in its material form, and matter as a way to
get the information it needs to constantly re-create itself. The
universe is where information comes from, and that's what existing is
all about... seeing and learning. There is no death, only renewal.


As long as the basic laws remain the same, the universe will always
anthropomorphize itself in the sense that whatever comes out as its
top product will likely have many of the qualities characteristic to
human beings. We were not created in God's image, the universe created
itself in man's image because humanoids were the most likely outcome
in this planet after dinosaurs disappeared. Make any changes to any of
the fundamental forces, and we may not even get a universe. But as
long as the laws remain the same, we will always end up with something
similar to what we have now. It could happen anywhere in this universe
but, sooner or later, as long as there is matter, it will eventually
happen, it is the way of Nature.


We are just biological units God (or whatever you want to call it)
employs to see the world, to exist. In this sense, we truly are God's
servants. Look at birds, all they want in life is to get somewhere
where they can mate and have offsprings, provide for them, and then
die. Same with salmon, in their world, getting to the top of that
mountain is all that counts. To them, that is what life is all about,
that's the information world they live in. Now... we... us, after 14
billion years of evolution, are Nature's top product.


*****. =A0Why are we inherently "better" for nature than an ant or
even a rock? =A0Those things have also been evolving at least 14gy.

We get God (the
Universe) the best information possible. Because of the way we see the
world and our ability to process the information we gather through our
senses, we are God's most efficient source of usable, valuable, and
specially meaningful information. A pigeon's life story may be a
beautiful thing, but that isn't enough, not enough information...
compared to what we humans can gather and provide.


Provide what? =A0Why is a human any better at "gathering information for
God" than a rock?
Why are we "better" than a pigeon or a clump of dust in orbit around
Saturn? =A0We simply are, and so is the clump of dust.



You may say - but how am I connected to God, how can God be every man,
or every man be God? Well, that's why I am so obsessed with the
concept of an aether, or empty space, if you prefer to call it that.
Remember, in this view, and thanks to wholeness; state, not knowledge,
spreads throughout the whole universe instantaneously. Empty space is
everywhere (aether permeates everything), it is the space between the
points. And the points, the particles, are just clusters, nodes of
information floating in that empty space. Empty space is not what
separates us, it is what unites us! The aether is like God in the
sense that it is one, that it is eternal, and because this empty space
permeates everything, it does not need to move. So, it doesn't matter
where you are, you could be a man in Moscow, in Montreal or in
Beijing... you would still be connected to God through the empty space
in which the universe sits.


If we must rely on "empty space" to unite us we are going to have some
trouble.
Is the aether is just empty space? =A0As you said it is the forces.. =A0in=
"empty space" there exist e.g. a magnetic field, an electric field, a
curvature tensor.. =A0this is not really empty. =A0No such thing as empty
space.







When your thoughts wander away, what brings them back, what makes you
pay attention? But this thing can neither think nor see by itself, it
needs our brains to do it. There is will, energy, matter and then
there comes consciousness and purpose. When we learn how this
wandering of the mind happens, then we can learn how to control it.
Eventually, this understanding of the process of mind, is what gives
us tranquility while allowing the mind to continue wandering, as it is
required by Nature.


'I think, therefore, I am' - Descartes used to say. I say, I think,
therefore, I exist. I agree with Carl Jung's materialistic
interpretation, the collective unconscious as a field, where fields
are considered to be matter. Teilhard de Chardin called it the
Noosphere. Tapping the collective unconscious is the thing. The
noisier your brain is, the harder it is to tap into this field.


Your brain, Nature's top product on this part of the universe, will be
doing what it created itself to do... and that was, like I said, to
gather the best available information in order to better understand
and enjoy existence... always thriving to maintain a state of well
being, stability and tranquility.


Just like your example of the salmon.
Nature's top product for what purpose? =A0Tune the ego down a bit.

For the purpose of self-reflection. Matter exists because of self-
reflection. Matter can't self-organize if can't self-observe. Without
self-awareness there can be no autopoiesis.
--
Laurent




Uncertainty is what drives the
universe. God knows as much as we do, and the day we know everything
will be the day the universe freezes over.


God (Aether) is Spirit, Will without purpose... pure energy [which is
neither hot nor bright].


...

read more =BB- Hide quoted text -

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- Show quoted text -

.
User: ""

Title: Re: Will and Purpose 22 Jan 2008 09:59:12 PM
On Jan 22, 7:34 pm, Laurent <cyberd...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 22, 12:42 pm,

wrote:

On Jan 21, 4:23 pm, Laurent <cyberd...@gmail.com> wrote:


Why does matter tries to better itself, where does this syntropy comes
from? Is the best possible choice always selected? I tend to think it
is a phenomenon ruled by the laws of Thermodynamics, the path of less
resistance, or the most energy efficient and meaningful, useful
process, but, at the same time, I think the aether is spirit, or will,
that it is where energy comes from. Will that comes from an urge to
fight entropy, to gather, order and preserve information, i.e., atoms
and DNA.


Electrons always move the same way, just like magnetic fields always
obey the rules. Those things are controlled by an other thing, they
can't choose which way to move. According to fact, the universe is
ruled by four forces and logic, the rest happens by chance. The aether
acts as a traffic light which directs the energy flow as required by
all types of field interactions. There are no decisions being taken,
electric and magnetic fields will always interact in the same exact
manner. Neither the universe, nor 'Consciousness', or whatever you
prefer to call it, cares about us. If there were such an all knowing
'Mind', then why would it be taking so long (13.7 billion years and
counting)?


We can't use subjectivity to understand or explain objective reality.
Love, purpose... these things have meaning to us, but neither Science,
nor the universe cares about what those things mean to us. To
understand and explain reality, we must look at it in an objective
way, and the facts say that the aether... God... Mind...
Consciousness... or whatever, is just a thing with no purpose. It can
neither see, nor think, until process turns it into brains with eyes.
We see and think for it... and we like it and want to continue, that's
where purpose comes from... we have purpose, the aether does not.


Well can you enlighten us as to what our "purpose" is?


There is matter because there is will, will is synonymous to energy,
in my view. It is probably some built-in algorithm integrated into
biological matter's morphic waves which makes information to grow, to
continue existing and preserve itself at the same time. Where does
this algorithm comes from? Natural selection? In see this information
gathering function of self-animated matter as a representation of a
process ruled by a syntropic principle. It is active information.
Nature is driven by a hunger, an urge to continue to exist, to order
reality, to preserve and gather information that guarantees its long
term survival. It is what makes us continue, it is what makes all
matter continue, this is the reason why this process seems to follow a
preferred time line.


In his great book 'Answer to Job', Carl Jung said: " The importance of
consciousness is so great that one cannot help suspecting the element
of meaning to be concealed somewhere within all the monstrous,
apparently senseless biological turmoil, and that the road to its
manifestation was ultimately found on the level of warm-blooded
vertebrates possessed of a differentiated brain -- found as if by
chance, unintended and unforeseen, and yet somehow sensed, felt and
groped for out of some dark urge. "


Whether you can call it God or not would depend on what you think God
is. To me God is a thing incapable of thinking or feeling until matter
and brains come into existence. Many call it Cosmic Consciousness,
others call it Mind, but they are all referring to same thing I am
talking about, a universal being. The aether, like God, is
omnipresent, eternal, with no beginning and no ending, it is one.


What evidence do you have for that? Aether particles might have
internal structure or even be created or destroyed. Hard to say with
the evidence at hand.


The
aether is the seat to all fields, and without fields there can be no
universe. Therefore, it is the source of everything there is. Will is
inherent to matter because matter sits on aether. Energy (Aether), or
Will (Spirit) without purpose, is, but does not exist... until it
turns into spacetime, purpose comes after.


If we are to understand what David Chalmers, director of the Centre
for Consciousness at the Australian National University, calls 'the
hard problem', or to answer 'What is that which is?' we need the
notion of an aether. After all, what is real, this ever changing
material reality or the eternal? The aether is that which is. It is
immutable, it is now what it always was, and there is nothing in this
universe that you can say that about simply because matter is in
constant change, what was five seconds ago is no longer.


God is but can't exist unless it exists as matter, as a universe. I
see the universe as God in its material form, and matter as a way to
get the information it needs to constantly re-create itself. The
universe is where information comes from, and that's what existing is
all about... seeing and learning. There is no death, only renewal.


As long as the basic laws remain the same, the universe will always
anthropomorphize itself in the sense that whatever comes out as its
top product will likely have many of the qualities characteristic to
human beings. We were not created in God's image, the universe created
itself in man's image because humanoids were the most likely outcome
in this planet after dinosaurs disappeared. Make any changes to any of
the fundamental forces, and we may not even get a universe. But as
long as the laws remain the same, we will always end up with something
similar to what we have now. It could happen anywhere in this universe
but, sooner or later, as long as there is matter, it will eventually
happen, it is the way of Nature.


We are just biological units God (or whatever you want to call it)
employs to see the world, to exist. In this sense, we truly are God's
servants. Look at birds, all they want in life is to get somewhere
where they can mate and have offsprings, provide for them, and then
die. Same with salmon, in their world, getting to the top of that
mountain is all that counts. To them, that is what life is all about,
that's the information world they live in. Now... we... us, after 14
billion years of evolution, are Nature's top product.


*****. Why are we inherently "better" for nature than an ant or
even a rock? Those things have also been evolving at least 14gy.


We get God (the
Universe) the best information possible. Because of the way we see the
world and our ability to process the information we gather through our
senses, we are God's most efficient source of usable, valuable, and
specially meaningful information. A pigeon's life story may be a
beautiful thing, but that isn't enough, not enough information...
compared to what we humans can gather and provide.


Provide what? Why is a human any better at "gathering information for
God" than a rock?
Why are we "better" than a pigeon or a clump of dust in orbit around
Saturn? We simply are, and so is the clump of dust.


You may say - but how am I connected to God, how can God be every man,
or every man be God? Well, that's why I am so obsessed with the
concept of an aether, or empty space, if you prefer to call it that.
Remember, in this view, and thanks to wholeness; state, not knowledge,
spreads throughout the whole universe instantaneously. Empty space is
everywhere (aether permeates everything), it is the space between the
points. And the points, the particles, are just clusters, nodes of
information floating in that empty space. Empty space is not what
separates us, it is what unites us! The aether is like God in the
sense that it is one, that it is eternal, and because this empty space
permeates everything, it does not need to move. So, it doesn't matter
where you are, you could be a man in Moscow, in Montreal or in
Beijing... you would still be connected to God through the empty space
in which the universe sits.


If we must rely on "empty space" to unite us we are going to have some
trouble.
Is the aether is just empty space? As you said it is the forces.. in
"empty space" there exist e.g. a magnetic field, an electric field, a
curvature tensor.. this is not really empty. No such thing as empty
space.


When your thoughts wander away, what brings them back, what makes you
pay attention? But this thing can neither think nor see by itself, it
needs our brains to do it. There is will, energy, matter and then
there comes consciousness and purpose. When we learn how this
wandering of the mind happens, then we can learn how to control it.
Eventually, this understanding of the process of mind, is what gives
us tranquility while allowing the mind to continue wandering, as it is
required by Nature.


'I think, therefore, I am' - Descartes used to say. I say, I think,
therefore, I exist. I agree with Carl Jung's materialistic
interpretation, the collective unconscious as a field, where fields
are considered to be matter. Teilhard de Chardin called it the
Noosphere. Tapping the collective unconscious is the thing. The
noisier your brain is, the harder it is to tap into this field.


Your brain, Nature's top product on this part of the universe, will be
doing what it created itself to do... and that was, like I said, to
gather the best available information in order to better understand
and enjoy existence... always thriving to maintain a state of well
being, stability and tranquility.


Just like your example of the salmon.
Nature's top product for what purpose? Tune the ego down a bit.


For the purpose of self-reflection. Matter exists because of self-
reflection. Matter can't self-organize if can't self-observe. Without
self-awareness there can be no autopoiesis.

How is it that bacteria (which do have memory) don't self-observe?
Aren't bacteria also autopiesitic?
Perhaps you mean that the concept of "matter" is very human and so our
conception of matter exists only because we are humans able to think
of this conception. That is a seemingly obvious point but worth
pointing out.
Otherwise, it looks like you are saying that protons don't exist
unless some animal somewhere looks in the mirror.
Do you really think a tree which falls in the woods with nobody around
makes no sound?
Cheers -
.
User: "Laurent"

Title: Re: Will and Purpose 24 Jan 2008 09:15:31 AM
wrote:

On Jan 22, 7:34 pm, Laurent <cyberd...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Jan 22, 12:42 pm,

wrote:

On Jan 21, 4:23 pm, Laurent <cyberd...@gmail.com> wrote:


Why does matter tries to better itself, where does this syntropy comes
from? Is the best possible choice always selected? I tend to think it
is a phenomenon ruled by the laws of Thermodynamics, the path of less
resistance, or the most energy efficient and meaningful, useful
process, but, at the same time, I think the aether is spirit, or will,
that it is where energy comes from. Will that comes from an urge to
fight entropy, to gather, order and preserve information, i.e., atoms
and DNA.


Electrons always move the same way, just like magnetic fields always
obey the rules. Those things are controlled by an other thing, they
can't choose which way to move. According to fact, the universe is
ruled by four forces and logic, the rest happens by chance. The aether
acts as a traffic light which directs the energy flow as required by
all types of field interactions. There are no decisions being taken,
electric and magnetic fields will always interact in the same exact
manner. Neither the universe, nor 'Consciousness', or whatever you
prefer to call it, cares about us. If there were such an all knowing
'Mind', then why would it be taking so long (13.7 billion years and
counting)?


We can't use subjectivity to understand or explain objective reality.
Love, purpose... these things have meaning to us, but neither Science,
nor the universe cares about what those things mean to us. To
understand and explain reality, we must look at it in an objective
way, and the facts say that the aether... God... Mind...
Consciousness... or whatever, is just a thing with no purpose. It can
neither see, nor think, until process turns it into brains with eyes.
We see and think for it... and we like it and want to continue, that's
where purpose comes from... we have purpose, the aether does not.


Well can you enlighten us as to what our "purpose" is?


There is matter because there is will, will is synonymous to energy,
in my view. It is probably some built-in algorithm integrated into
biological matter's morphic waves which makes information to grow, to
continue existing and preserve itself at the same time. Where does
this algorithm comes from? Natural selection? In see this information
gathering function of self-animated matter as a representation of a
process ruled by a syntropic principle. It is active information.
Nature is driven by a hunger, an urge to continue to exist, to order
reality, to preserve and gather information that guarantees its long
term survival. It is what makes us continue, it is what makes all
matter continue, this is the reason why this process seems to follow a
preferred time line.


In his great book 'Answer to Job', Carl Jung said: " The importance of
consciousness is so great that one cannot help suspecting the element
of meaning to be concealed somewhere within all the monstrous,
apparently senseless biological turmoil, and that the road to its
manifestation was ultimately found on the level of warm-blooded
vertebrates possessed of a differentiated brain -- found as if by
chance, unintended and unforeseen, and yet somehow sensed, felt and
groped for out of some dark urge. "


Whether you can call it God or not would depend on what you think God
is. To me God is a thing incapable of thinking or feeling until matter
and brains come into existence. Many call it Cosmic Consciousness,
others call it Mind, but they are all referring to same thing I am
talking about, a universal being. The aether, like God, is
omnipresent, eternal, with no beginning and no ending, it is one.


What evidence do you have for that? Aether particles might have
internal structure or even be created or destroyed. Hard to say with
the evidence at hand.


The
aether is the seat to all fields, and without fields there can be no
universe. Therefore, it is the source of everything there is. Will is
inherent to matter because matter sits on aether. Energy (Aether), or
Will (Spirit) without purpose, is, but does not exist... until it
turns into spacetime, purpose comes after.


If we are to understand what David Chalmers, director of the Centre
for Consciousness at the Australian National University, calls 'the
hard problem', or to answer 'What is that which is?' we need the
notion of an aether. After all, what is real, this ever changing
material reality or the eternal? The aether is that which is. It is
immutable, it is now what it always was, and there is nothing in this
universe that you can say that about simply because matter is in
constant change, what was five seconds ago is no longer.


God is but can't exist unless it exists as matter, as a universe. I
see the universe as God in its material form, and matter as a way to
get the information it needs to constantly re-create itself. The
universe is where information comes from, and that's what existing is
all about... seeing and learning. There is no death, only renewal.


As long as the basic laws remain the same, the universe will always
anthropomorphize itself in the sense that whatever comes out as its
top product will likely have many of the qualities characteristic to
human beings. We were not created in God's image, the universe created
itself in man's image because humanoids were the most likely outcome
in this planet after dinosaurs disappeared. Make any changes to any of
the fundamental forces, and we may not even get a universe. But as
long as the laws remain the same, we will always end up with something
similar to what we have now. It could happen anywhere in this universe
but, sooner or later, as long as there is matter, it will eventually
happen, it is the way of Nature.


We are just biological units God (or whatever you want to call it)
employs to see the world, to exist. In this sense, we truly are God's
servants. Look at birds, all they want in life is to get somewhere
where they can mate and have offsprings, provide for them, and then
die. Same with salmon, in their world, getting to the top of that
mountain is all that counts. To them, that is what life is all about,
that's the information world they live in. Now... we... us, after 14
billion years of evolution, are Nature's top product.


*****. Why are we inherently "better" for nature than an ant or
even a rock? Those things have also been evolving at least 14gy.


We get God (the
Universe) the best information possible. Because of the way we see the
world and our ability to process the information we gather through our
senses, we are God's most efficient source of usable, valuable, and
specially meaningful information. A pigeon's life story may be a
beautiful thing, but that isn't enough, not enough information...
compared to what we humans can gather and provide.


Provide what? Why is a human any better at "gathering information for
God" than a rock?
Why are we "better" than a pigeon or a clump of dust in orbit around
Saturn? We simply are, and so is the clump of dust.


You may say - but how am I connected to God, how can God be every man,
or every man be God? Well, that's why I am so obsessed with the
concept of an aether, or empty space, if you prefer to call it that.
Remember, in this view, and thanks to wholeness; state, not knowledge,
spreads throughout the whole universe instantaneously. Empty space is
everywhere (aether permeates everything), it is the space between the
points. And the points, the particles, are just clusters, nodes of
information floating in that empty space. Empty space is not what
separates us, it is what unites us! The aether is like God in the
sense that it is one, that it is eternal, and because this empty space
permeates everything, it does not need to move. So, it doesn't matter
where you are, you could be a man in Moscow, in Montreal or in
Beijing... you would still be connected to God through the empty space
in which the universe sits.


If we must rely on "empty space" to unite us we are going to have some
trouble.
Is the aether is just empty space? As you said it is the forces.. in
"empty space" there exist e.g. a magnetic field, an electric field, a
curvature tensor.. this is not really empty. No such thing as empty
space.


When your thoughts wander away, what brings them back, what makes you
pay attention? But this thing can neither think nor see by itself, it
needs our brains to do it. There is will, energy, matter and then
there comes consciousness and purpose. When we learn how this
wandering of the mind happens, then we can learn how to control it.
Eventually, this understanding of the process of mind, is what gives
us tranquility while allowing the mind to continue wandering, as it is
required by Nature.


'I think, therefore, I am' - Descartes used to say. I say, I think,
therefore, I exist. I agree with Carl Jung's materialistic
interpretation, the collective unconscious as a field, where fields
are considered to be matter. Teilhard de Chardin called it the
Noosphere. Tapping the collective unconscious is the thing. The
noisier your brain is, the harder it is to tap into this field.


Your brain, Nature's top product on this part of the universe, will be
doing what it created itself to do... and that was, like I said, to
gather the best available information in order to better understand
and enjoy existence... always thriving to maintain a state of well
being, stability and tranquility.


Just like your example of the salmon.
Nature's top product for what purpose? Tune the ego down a bit.


For the purpose of self-reflection. Matter exists because of self-
reflection. Matter can't self-organize if can't self-observe. Without
self-awareness there can be no autopoiesis.


How is it that bacteria (which do have memory) don't self-observe?
Aren't bacteria also autopiesitic?

How does a brain cell knows it isn't an eye cell, how do your left
thumb cells know where they are? How do chromosomes get together and
ensemble during cell division?
It is all controlled by algorithms, programs which, as they repeat and
replicate themselves, are embedded into self-animated matter. Programs
which give shape to the morphogenetic fields that pulls chromosomes
together. Programs which formed with time, by trial and error. First,
matter followed simple little programs, the universe was very hot and
noisy and could only support small atoms, later, as it got colder,
came the stars and the heavier elements... a few billion years later
came biological matter.


Perhaps you mean that the concept of "matter" is very human and so our
conception of matter exists only because we are humans able to think
of this conception. That is a seemingly obvious point but worth
pointing out.

Otherwise, it looks like you are saying that protons don't exist
unless some animal somewhere looks in the mirror.

Do you really think a tree which falls in the woods with nobody around
makes no sound?

No, I think exactly the opposite.
See Holistic Awareness at:
http://cyberdyno1.tripod.com/
--
Laurent


Cheers -

.





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