Science > Physics > WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data?
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"mountain man" |
| Date: |
16 May 2004 06:19:37 AM |
| Object: |
WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
The following post was made in November 2001.
AFAIK the question quoted in full below remains
completely unanswered.
Does NASA lose contraversial data regularly?
Are there no interested parties following this up?
Was this not internationally gathered data?
Were there no follow-up news stories anywhere?
How accountable is the process of science in the US?
Wake up America !! ...... Hello !!
DUDES ?????????????????????
Anyone home? Are the lights on?
WTF happened to the data?
=======[QUOTE: Posted 2001, and still an open question]===========
As illustrated in:
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm
Dr. David Noever was leading the effort to coordinate testing for the
anomalous deflection observed by Nobel Laurate Maurice Allias. Since
the execution of these in 1999 silence as to actual measured results
has been the norm. Dr. Noever was to present an article in a
compilation of articles on gravitation in Aperion's upcoming book but,
as the editor Matt Edwards writes,
"Yes, unfortunately the article by David Noever never
materialized. I don't know why; he just stopped
communicating. Apparently, his European colleagues
had the same experience with him. They claim he has
left NASA and took all the eclipse data with him!
Does anyone know the background story, and where the 1999 Eclipse data
is???
=======[UNQUOTE: Posted 2001, and still an open question]===========
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
Oz
www.mountainman.com.au
.
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| User: "Kazimir1" |
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| Title: re:WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
18 Jun 2004 08:34:01 AM |
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And WTH happened to
Experimental-Gravitational-Physics-Using-Drag-Free-Satellites
Covers current and past projects in experimental gravitational physics
using Drag-Free Satellites including the Relativity Gyro, Equivalence
Principle, and LISA.
www.dragfreesatellite.com
I cannot access the page and suprisingly in Google cache its missing
too.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
18 Jun 2004 11:00:13 AM |
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In sci.physics, Kazimir1
<svetumier@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid>
wrote
on 18 Jun 2004 08:34:01 -0500
<40d2ef49$1_1@127.0.0.1>:
And WTH happened to
Experimental-Gravitational-Physics-Using-Drag-Free-Satellites
Covers current and past projects in experimental gravitational physics
using Drag-Free Satellites including the Relativity Gyro, Equivalence
Principle, and LISA.
www.dragfreesatellite.com
I cannot access the page and suprisingly in Google cache its missing
too.
I suspect a temporary aberration; I for one am having no problems
accessing the Website. Can you access other websites?
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
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| User: "Kazimir1" |
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| Title: re:WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
15 Jun 2004 12:04:19 PM |
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It is really strange. Mr Noever has moved to Mobular technologies
www.mobular.net and he is now working on mail databases.
Its quit a big turn from gravity research, isnt it?
And when somebody remembers his name and lost experimental data,
suddenly comes "agent" Smith and plays this topic into different
direction.
Why Im so interested in this topic? Because I think, that I have found
new and absolutely crazy theory, but I need experimental data to
prove it.
My theory predicts that the eclicpse gravity anomalies started at
least 1,2 second sooner than the eclipse itself.
Somebody interested? Write me an email.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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| User: "greywolf42" |
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| Title: Re: re:WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
17 Jun 2004 01:22:18 PM |
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Kazimir1 <svetumier@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:40cf2c13$1_1@127.0.0.1...
It is really strange. Mr Noever has moved to Mobular technologies
www.mobular.net and he is now working on mail databases.
Its quit a big turn from gravity research, isnt it?
A standard progression. Taxpayers funded the development of the algorithms
that Noever et al are now commercially marketing. One jumps when the money
is available.
And when somebody remembers his name and lost experimental data,
suddenly comes "agent" Smith and plays this topic into different
direction.
??? No agents are needed. An 'explanation' has been found via Chinese data
from the 1997 eclipse.
Why Im so interested in this topic? Because I think, that I have found
new and absolutely crazy theory, but I need experimental data to
prove it.
My theory predicts that the eclicpse gravity anomalies started at
least 1,2 second sooner than the eclipse itself.
Somebody interested? Write me an email.
I'm not sure how you can have gravitational effects 'leading' light effects
from a solar ecplise -- unless you presume that gravity 'propagates' many
times greater than the speed of light. (Time from the moon to earth is 1.3
seconds.)
You may want to check out the following papers:
Qian-shen Wang et al., Physical Review, D 62, 041101(R) (2000): "Precise
measurement of gravity variations during a total solar eclipse."
Unfortunately, the data appears to be too noisy for determination of timing
differences on the order of seconds.
Unnikrishnan et al, Physical Review, D, 63, 062002 (2001): "Anomalous
gravity data during the 1997 total solar ecplise do not support the
hypothesis of gravitational shielding." An attempt to theoretically
'disprove' the above experimental observations.
For what it's worth, before the Taxpayers' 1999 data disappeared with Dr.
Noever, it had been noted that the results were not null. There is no
telling whether it was consistent with the Chinese data, because the Chinese
results had not yet been published in English.
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=7pe2rb%24m27%241%40nnrp1.deja.com
In August, 1999, Dr. Noever was committing to verifying and submitting the
results to a peer-reviewed scientific journal "within the next few weeks."
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
.
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
16 May 2004 12:26:34 PM |
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NASA - what are the rovers doing on Mars now? That is out of the news. Why
did they miss Mars twice before?
Do you know you can't wash clothes in space, and that they have bring them
all back down?
What are the radiation effects on Man staying traveling to/from the Moon and
Mars - latest NASA initiative?
(radiation alone rules out the possibility of Man on moon or mars more that
a week or so and NASA knows this, has data on it)
But it is a buracaracy and needs to keep the $ flowing in.
"mountain man" <hobbit@southern_seaweed.com.op> wrote in message
news:d7Ipc.41652$TT.8668@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
The following post was made in November 2001.
AFAIK the question quoted in full below remains
completely unanswered.
Does NASA lose contraversial data regularly?
Are there no interested parties following this up?
Was this not internationally gathered data?
Were there no follow-up news stories anywhere?
How accountable is the process of science in the US?
Wake up America !! ...... Hello !!
DUDES ?????????????????????
Anyone home? Are the lights on?
WTF happened to the data?
=======[QUOTE: Posted 2001, and still an open question]===========
As illustrated in:
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast06aug99_1.htm
Dr. David Noever was leading the effort to coordinate testing for the
anomalous deflection observed by Nobel Laurate Maurice Allias. Since
the execution of these in 1999 silence as to actual measured results
has been the norm. Dr. Noever was to present an article in a
compilation of articles on gravitation in Aperion's upcoming book but,
as the editor Matt Edwards writes,
"Yes, unfortunately the article by David Noever never
materialized. I don't know why; he just stopped
communicating. Apparently, his European colleagues
had the same experience with him. They claim he has
left NASA and took all the eclipse data with him!
Does anyone know the background story, and where the 1999 Eclipse data
is???
=======[UNQUOTE: Posted 2001, and still an open question]===========
Pete Brown
Falls Creek
Oz
www.mountainman.com.au
.
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| User: "Ian Stirling" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
16 May 2004 06:30:36 PM |
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John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
NASA - what are the rovers doing on Mars now? That is out of the news. Why
did they miss Mars twice before?
Do you know you can't wash clothes in space, and that they have bring them
all back down?
What are the radiation effects on Man staying traveling to/from the Moon and
Mars - latest NASA initiative?
(radiation alone rules out the possibility of Man on moon or mars more that
a week or so and NASA knows this, has data on it)
To clarify, are you the sort of idiot that thinks that the moon landings
never happened, or a different sort.
.
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
16 May 2004 10:02:39 PM |
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"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:wQSpc.4979$NK4.498946@stones.force9.net...
John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
NASA - what are the rovers doing on Mars now? That is out of the news.
Why
did they miss Mars twice before?
Do you know you can't wash clothes in space, and that they have bring
them
all back down?
What are the radiation effects on Man staying traveling to/from the Moon
and
Mars - latest NASA initiative?
(radiation alone rules out the possibility of Man on moon or mars more
that
a week or so and NASA knows this, has data on it)
To clarify, are you the sort of idiot that thinks that the moon landings
never happened, or a different sort.
Landings happened designed on purpose to be short to keep out of the
radiation events. one tean had to be sent back in wheen a solar flari
happened, NASA said at the time the crew could have been killed by the solar
flair. I get urls later to support
.
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| User: "Ian Stirling" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
17 May 2004 06:53:25 AM |
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John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:wQSpc.4979$NK4.498946@stones.force9.net...
John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
NASA - what are the rovers doing on Mars now? That is out of the news.
Why
did they miss Mars twice before?
Do you know you can't wash clothes in space, and that they have bring
them
all back down?
What are the radiation effects on Man staying traveling to/from the Moon
and
Mars - latest NASA initiative?
(radiation alone rules out the possibility of Man on moon or mars more
that
a week or so and NASA knows this, has data on it)
To clarify, are you the sort of idiot that thinks that the moon landings
never happened, or a different sort.
Landings happened designed on purpose to be short to keep out of the
radiation events. one tean had to be sent back in wheen a solar flari
happened, NASA said at the time the crew could have been killed by the solar
flair. I get urls later to support
And you don't think that increased shielding for a longer moon or mars
mission would have any effect?
.
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
17 May 2004 12:34:46 PM |
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Gad! I just found out about this(googledit), but this radiation topic is an
old war. But not much data, Oh well......... Think I'll stay on the surface
for a while.
"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VI1qc.4331$wI4.494495@wards.force9.net...
John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:wQSpc.4979$NK4.498946@stones.force9.net...
John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
NASA - what are the rovers doing on Mars now? That is out of the
news.
Why
did they miss Mars twice before?
Do you know you can't wash clothes in space, and that they have bring
them
all back down?
What are the radiation effects on Man staying traveling to/from the
Moon
and
Mars - latest NASA initiative?
(radiation alone rules out the possibility of Man on moon or mars
more
that
a week or so and NASA knows this, has data on it)
To clarify, are you the sort of idiot that thinks that the moon
landings
never happened, or a different sort.
Landings happened designed on purpose to be short to keep out of the
radiation events. one tean had to be sent back in wheen a solar flari
happened, NASA said at the time the crew could have been killed by the
solar
flair. I get urls later to support
And you don't think that increased shielding for a longer moon or mars
mission would have any effect?
.
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| User: "Ian Stirling" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
17 May 2004 01:36:57 PM |
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John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
Gad! I just found out about this(googledit), but this radiation topic is an
old war. But not much data, Oh well......... Think I'll stay on the surface
for a while.
I sort-of assumed you were a troll in disguise.
If not, then this is a largely solved problem.
The prime worry about radiation for astronauts that causes problems
first, is mutation in any children born afterwards.
If you freeze the sperm of any astronauts that go, then that removes
that worry.
As an indication of the actual risks, look at the longevity of the
astronaut corps.
A large number of the astronauts that walked on the moon are still walking
around.
You don't need to reduce the risk far enough to have zero effect.
Just that (for example) the length of life of anybody going is
on average going to remain the same.
You can achieve this by regular MRI/... screening, to detect
both natural and induced cancers earlier, and have a lower overall
risk of dying of cancer.
The idea of shielding for most missions to mars is to have a small
'safe harbour' that the crew can go into for up to a couple of weeks
at a time, that's well shielded, in case of high radiation, combined
with a larger habitat that they can work in normally.
Radiation on the surface is a problem.
Covering with lunar/martian soil can work for shielding a habitat.
Staying indoors when it's very bad is also needed.
.
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| User: "John Smith" |
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| Title: Re: WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
17 May 2004 09:24:43 AM |
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Yes, but how long? and that is where previous NASA data could show that it's
not very long. One study that is still available on the NASA site I think,
says that to shield the men to Mars takes 6 inches of water in the
surrounding walls of the spacecraft. Water is the best to use, lead or
heavy metals emit a secondary radiation when hit by cosmic rays, and is
unsuitable. So, how do you launch that? The study came out I think about 5
years ago, before the present funding situation. The study implied that the
shielding was enough to get the men to mars.
Problem is on Mars (or moon), you still have the cumulative radiation
problem. If they are out and about, they are exposed, and the radiation
exposure is cumulative. If they are shielded, they are inside, not getting
as much exposure, but why send someone up there if they are good for only
1500 hours or so of outside exposure? There is data on long exposures in
space via Russians on their space station who spent a long time up there, I
have heard (haven't verified this though) that all are dead now.
But in any case, it seems that data on radiation and its effects on space
traveler is very difficult to find now. If it were no problem, then studies
and reports would show this. Electronics on space craft are designed with
high radiation levels in mind, "rad-hard", so the levels are known. I
think your question is right on the mark - how long can one survive with how
much shielding?
"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:VI1qc.4331$wI4.494495@wards.force9.net...
John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
"Ian Stirling" <root@mauve.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:wQSpc.4979$NK4.498946@stones.force9.net...
John Smith <pani@yahoo.com> wrote:
NASA - what are the rovers doing on Mars now? That is out of the
news.
Why
did they miss Mars twice before?
Do you know you can't wash clothes in space, and that they have bring
them
all back down?
What are the radiation effects on Man staying traveling to/from the
Moon
and
Mars - latest NASA initiative?
(radiation alone rules out the possibility of Man on moon or mars
more
that
a week or so and NASA knows this, has data on it)
To clarify, are you the sort of idiot that thinks that the moon
landings
never happened, or a different sort.
Landings happened designed on purpose to be short to keep out of the
radiation events. one tean had to be sent back in wheen a solar flari
happened, NASA said at the time the crew could have been killed by the
solar
flair. I get urls later to support
And you don't think that increased shielding for a longer moon or mars
mission would have any effect?
.
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| User: "Kazimir1" |
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| Title: re:WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
18 Jun 2004 05:32:57 AM |
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Thanks for overview, greywolf42
I have made a mistake, the web adress of mobular is www.mobular.com
Yes, I have seen the results of Wang before, but it is really not
precise enough. And its the only one published experiment on the
topic.
But it is strange: Allais has got anomaly results, Wang too, Noever
too. So why are there no following experiments? Its quite easy and
cheap experiment compared for example to Gravity probe B.
There is some "small" problem. When the measurements are corrects,
there is a problem with fundamental physics laws.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
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| User: "greywolf42" |
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| Title: Re: re:WTF happened to Noever and the NASA 1999 Solar Eclipse Data? |
18 Jun 2004 01:08:17 PM |
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Kazimir1 <svetumier@hotmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:40d2c4d9$1_2@127.0.0.1...
Thanks for overview, greywolf42
I have made a mistake, the web adress of mobular is www.mobular.com
Yes, I have seen the results of Wang before, but it is really not
precise enough. And its the only one published experiment on the
topic.
But it is strange: Allais has got anomaly results, Wang too, Noever
too. So why are there no following experiments? Its quite easy and
cheap experiment compared for example to Gravity probe B.
It is not strange at all. It is simply not scientific.
You should understand that what passes for science these days is simply a
return to the Faith-based worship of ideas that existed in Galileo's time.
Once the *herd* decides that an explanation has been found, new experiments
(or repeats of old experiments) are eschewed.
There is some "small" problem. When the measurements are corrects,
there is a problem with fundamental physics laws.
You might like to read Kuhn's "The Structure of Scientific Revolutions." A
classic book. Though he fails utterly to distinguish between the scientific
method and 'what people who hold PhD's do.'
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
.
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