| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-Economics |
| User: |
"Harry Dope" |
| Date: |
24 Jan 2008 02:39:57 PM |
| Object: |
Looks like Fraud in France triggered Stock Market Fiasco libs had blamed on our president |
Did SocGen trades trigger market rout, Fed cut?
By Sitaraman Shankar and Blaise Robinson 1 hour, 44 minutes ago
LONDON/PARIS (Reuters) - Societe Generale's shock disclosure of a fraud that
lost it $7 billion has left investors wondering about a link between the
fiasco and Monday's European stock market rout.
The sharp fall, which was followed by an emergency U.S. rate cut, came as
SocGen tried to close out positions built up by one of its traders.
SocGen, France's second biggest bank, said on Thursday that it had been the
victim of a massive and "exceptional" fraud by a junior trader resulting in
losses of 4.9 billion euros, and announced a large capital increase.
SocGen said the trader, responsible for futures hedging on European equity
market indexes, had taken massive fraudulent positions in 2007 and 2008
beyond his authority.
The bank said it had decided to close the positions as quickly as
practicable after they were discovered on the weekend of Jan 19 and 20.
This has brought under the microscope the massive declines in European
shares on Monday, January 21, when over $350 billion was wiped off the value
of top British, German and French shares -- an amount equal to the combined
gross domestic product of Hungary and Greece.
The FTSEurofirst 300, a pan-European stock market benchmark, fell nearly 6
percent on that day, its biggest one-day fall since the attacks of September
11, 2001.
And the U.S. Federal Reserve served up a surprise 75 basis-point interest
rate cut on Tuesday, a move that managed to limit declines in U.S. stocks
when they resumed trading after Monday's Martin Luther King Day holiday.
"The huge amount of futures selling could be one reason why markets fell off
a cliff on Monday, and maybe that was an ingredient in forcing the Fed to
bring forward a part of its interest rate cuts," said Andrew Bell, European
strategist at Rensburg Sheppard.
A Fed source later said the central bank had not known about the SocGen
fraud when it made its rate decision on Monday.
The stock slide on Monday has contributed to making January the worst month
in more than five years on European bourses, and European shares have lost
12 percent so far this month, compared to a 3 percent gain at this time last
year.
This was even after a sharp increase on Thursday, as hopes for a rescue
package for monoline bond insurers in the United States, and strong results
from handset maker Nokia offset any impact SocGen's announcement might have
had.
HUGE VOLUMES
Reuters data showed that the volume on DAX futures on Monday, Tuesday and
Wednesday were the highest in at least five years and twice the average for
the month, despite the United States holiday on Monday.
Talk swirled on Wednesday of a huge writedown at SocGen, and traders said it
was possible that this was due to the bank unwinding massive positions.
Trader Rik Zwaneveld at AFS Brokers in Amsterdam said: "On Wednesday there
was talk of a 40 billion euro writedown at SocGen. With the news today, a
5-billion-euro loss on 40 billion euros of positions is possible," he said.
L'Autorite des Marches Financiers (AMF), France's market watchdog, declined
to comment on SocGen's unwinding of bad positions.
TRIGGER FOR RATE MOVE?
The U.S. Federal Reserve cut its discount rate, or the rate at which it
lends directly to banks, in August, soon after BNP Paribas, another French
bank, spooked investors worldwide by freezing 1.6 billion euros worth of
funds due to problems in the U.S. subprime mortgage sector.
Traders speculated that this time round, the travails at SocGen had played a
similar catalytic role in the Fed's move.
Said a credit trader in Germany: "It kind of begs the question now, did the
Fed cut rates courtesy of a rogue trader at SocGen having to close out a
massive position and sending the stock market into turmoil?"
(Reporting by Sitaraman Shankar, Blaise Robinson, Natalie Harrison and
Gilbert Kreijger, Editing by Andrew Callus)
--
"Impeachment is off the table" Nancy Pelosi
.
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| User: "Sissy from Crawford" |
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| Title: Re: Looks like Bush Fraud triggered Stock Market Fiasco |
26 Jan 2008 02:08:55 PM |
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"Hairy Dope" <DopeLies@aol.com> wrote in message
news:4798f7a3$0$24084$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
The Stock Market fiasco is due to Bush's incompetence and his meandering eye
on Condi Rice.
.
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| User: "Frank Pittel" |
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| Title: Re: Looks like Bush Fraud triggered Stock Market Fiasco |
26 Jan 2008 05:08:11 PM |
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In alt.politics.usa.republican Sissy from Crawford <somebody@crawford.net> wrote:
: "Hairy Dope" <DopeLies@aol.com> wrote in message
: news:4798f7a3$0$24084$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
: The Stock Market fiasco is due to Bush's incompetence and his meandering eye
: on Condi Rice.
Your credible evidence is..............????
I didn't think so.
--
-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
.
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| User: "John Galt" |
|
| Title: Re: Looks like Bush Fraud triggered Stock Market Fiasco |
26 Jan 2008 06:56:32 PM |
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"Frank Pittel" <fwp@warlock.deepthought.com> wrote in message
news:-dydnZ35S7nGIAbanZ2dnUVZ_gudnZ2d@giganews.com...
In alt.politics.usa.republican Sissy from Crawford <somebody@crawford.net>
wrote:
: "Hairy Dope" <DopeLies@aol.com> wrote in message
: news:4798f7a3$0$24084$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
: The Stock Market fiasco is due to Bush's incompetence and his meandering
eye
: on Condi Rice.
Your credible evidence is..............????
I didn't think so.
You're feeding the troll.
JG
.
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| User: "Frank Pittel" |
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| Title: Re: Looks like Fraud in France triggered Stock Market Fiasco libs had blamed on our president |
24 Jan 2008 03:41:55 PM |
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It can't be the reason for the sell off. All week long the looney tune
brain dead lying fascist loser lib dems have been blaming the drop on
Bush.
In alt.politics.usa.republican Harry Dope <DemocratsLie@aol.com> wrote:
: Did SocGen trades trigger market rout, Fed cut?
: By Sitaraman Shankar and Blaise Robinson 1 hour, 44 minutes ago
: LONDON/PARIS (Reuters) - Societe Generale's shock disclosure of a fraud that
: lost it $7 billion has left investors wondering about a link between the
: fiasco and Monday's European stock market rout.
: The sharp fall, which was followed by an emergency U.S. rate cut, came as
: SocGen tried to close out positions built up by one of its traders.
: SocGen, France's second biggest bank, said on Thursday that it had been the
: victim of a massive and "exceptional" fraud by a junior trader resulting in
: losses of 4.9 billion euros, and announced a large capital increase.
: SocGen said the trader, responsible for futures hedging on European equity
: market indexes, had taken massive fraudulent positions in 2007 and 2008
: beyond his authority.
: The bank said it had decided to close the positions as quickly as
: practicable after they were discovered on the weekend of Jan 19 and 20.
: This has brought under the microscope the massive declines in European
: shares on Monday, January 21, when over $350 billion was wiped off the value
: of top British, German and French shares -- an amount equal to the combined
: gross domestic product of Hungary and Greece.
: The FTSEurofirst 300, a pan-European stock market benchmark, fell nearly 6
: percent on that day, its biggest one-day fall since the attacks of September
: 11, 2001.
: And the U.S. Federal Reserve served up a surprise 75 basis-point interest
: rate cut on Tuesday, a move that managed to limit declines in U.S. stocks
: when they resumed trading after Monday's Martin Luther King Day holiday.
: "The huge amount of futures selling could be one reason why markets fell off
: a cliff on Monday, and maybe that was an ingredient in forcing the Fed to
: bring forward a part of its interest rate cuts," said Andrew Bell, European
: strategist at Rensburg Sheppard.
: A Fed source later said the central bank had not known about the SocGen
: fraud when it made its rate decision on Monday.
: The stock slide on Monday has contributed to making January the worst month
: in more than five years on European bourses, and European shares have lost
: 12 percent so far this month, compared to a 3 percent gain at this time last
: year.
: This was even after a sharp increase on Thursday, as hopes for a rescue
: package for monoline bond insurers in the United States, and strong results
: from handset maker Nokia offset any impact SocGen's announcement might have
: had.
: HUGE VOLUMES
: Reuters data showed that the volume on DAX futures on Monday, Tuesday and
: Wednesday were the highest in at least five years and twice the average for
: the month, despite the United States holiday on Monday.
: Talk swirled on Wednesday of a huge writedown at SocGen, and traders said it
: was possible that this was due to the bank unwinding massive positions.
: Trader Rik Zwaneveld at AFS Brokers in Amsterdam said: "On Wednesday there
: was talk of a 40 billion euro writedown at SocGen. With the news today, a
: 5-billion-euro loss on 40 billion euros of positions is possible," he said.
: L'Autorite des Marches Financiers (AMF), France's market watchdog, declined
: to comment on SocGen's unwinding of bad positions.
: TRIGGER FOR RATE MOVE?
: The U.S. Federal Reserve cut its discount rate, or the rate at which it
: lends directly to banks, in August, soon after BNP Paribas, another French
: bank, spooked investors worldwide by freezing 1.6 billion euros worth of
: funds due to problems in the U.S. subprime mortgage sector.
: Traders speculated that this time round, the travails at SocGen had played a
: similar catalytic role in the Fed's move.
: Said a credit trader in Germany: "It kind of begs the question now, did the
: Fed cut rates courtesy of a rogue trader at SocGen having to close out a
: massive position and sending the stock market into turmoil?"
: (Reporting by Sitaraman Shankar, Blaise Robinson, Natalie Harrison and
: Gilbert Kreijger, Editing by Andrew Callus)
: --
: "Impeachment is off the table" Nancy Pelosi
--
-------------------
Keep working millions on welfare depend on you
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Looks like Fraud in France triggered Stock Market Fiasco libs had blamed on our president |
24 Jan 2008 08:27:21 PM |
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On Thu, 24 Jan 2008 16:39:57 -0400, "Harry Dope"
<DemocratsLie@aol.com> wrote:
SocGen, France's second biggest bank, said on Thursday that it had been the
victim of a massive and "exceptional" fraud by a junior trader resulting in
losses of 4.9 billion euros, and announced a large capital increase.
SocGen said the trader, responsible for futures hedging on European equity
market indexes, had taken massive fraudulent positions in 2007 and 2008
beyond his authority.
The bank said it had decided to close the positions as quickly as
practicable after they were discovered on the weekend of Jan 19 and 20.
This may have been a trigger but it doesn't explain the broad decline
in overseas stocks. No, they were simply due for a correction and
dumped. Fortunately there was a definite "bottom" to the hole they
fell in and once their eyeballs stop rattling they'll start climbing
out.
--
"The enormously expensive Kyoto recommendations would
save 0.06 polar bears per year at most. But 49 bears
from the same population are getting shot every year,
and this we can easily do something about."
- Bjorn Lomborg
.
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