| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-Misc |
| User: |
"3921 Dead" |
| Date: |
11 Jan 2008 09:13:02 AM |
| Object: |
#Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Bush_US_should_have_bombed_Auschwit_01112008.html
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights, pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz. Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
Bush: US should have bombed Auschwitz
Bush Visits Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial; Says US Should
Have Bombed Auschwitz
ARON HELLER
AP News
Jan 11, 2008 06:07 EST
President Bush had tears in his eyes during an hour-long tour of
Israel's Holocaust memorial Friday and told Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice that the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt
the killing, the memorial's chairman said.
Bush emerged from a tour of the Yad Vashem memorial calling it a
"sobering reminder" that evil must be resisted, and praising victims
for not losing their faith.
Wearing a yarmulke, Bush placed a red-white-and-blue wreath on a stone
slab that covers ashes of Holocaust victims taken from six
extermination camps. He also lit a torch memorializing the victims.
Bush was visibly moved as he toured the site, said Yad Vashem's
chairman, Avner Shalev.
"Twice, I saw tears well up in his eyes," Shalev said.
At one point, Bush viewed aerial photos of the Auschwitz camp taken
during the war by U.S. forces and called Rice over to discuss why the
American government had decided against bombing the site, Shalev said.
The Allies had detailed reports about Auschwitz during the war from
Polish partisans and escaped prisoners. But they chose not to bomb the
camp, the rail lines leading to it, or any of the other Nazi death
camps, preferring instead to focus all resources on the broader
military effort, a decision that became the subject of intense
controversy years later.
Between 1.1 million and 1.5 million people were killed at the camp.
"We should have bombed it," Bush said, according to Shalev.
In the memorial's visitors' book, the president wrote simply, "God
bless Israel, George Bush."
The memorial was closed to the public and under heavy guard Friday,
with armed soldiers standing on top of some of the site's monuments
and a police helicopter and surveillance blimp hovering in the air
overhead.
"I was most impressed that people in the face of horror and evil would
not forsake their God. In the face of unspeakable crimes against
humanity, brave souls — young and old — stood strong for what they
believe," Bush said.
"I wish as many people as possible would come to this place. It is a
sobering reminder that evil exists, and a call that when evil exists
we must resist it," he said.
It was Bush's second visit to the Holocaust memorial, a regular stop
on the visits of foreign dignitaries. His first was in 1998, as
governor of Texas. The last U.S. president to visit was Bill Clinton
in 1994.
Bush, making the most extensive Mideast trip of his presidency, was
accompanied on his tour by a small party that included Rice and
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.
At the compound, overlooking a forest on Jerusalem's outskirts, Bush
visited a memorial to the 1.5 million Jewish children killed in the
Holocaust, featuring six candles reflected 1.5 million times in a hall
of mirrors. At the site's Hall of Remembrance, he heard a cantor sing
a Jewish prayer for the dead.
Shalev presented Bush with illustrations of the Bible drawn by the
Jewish artist Carol Deutsch, who perished in the Holocaust.
Deutsch created the works while in hiding from the Nazis in Belgium.
He was informed upon, and died in 1944 in the Buchenwald camp. After
the war, his daughter Ingrid discovered that the Nazis had confiscated
their furniture and valuables but had left behind a single item: a
meticulously crafted wooden box adorned with a Star of David and a
seven-branched menorah, containing a collection of 99 of the artist's
illustrations of biblical scenes.
The originals are on display at Yad Vashem. The memorial recently
decided to produce a special series of 500 replicas, the first of
which was to be presented to Bush.
Debbie Deutsch-Berman, a Yad Vashem employee whose grandfather was
Deutsch's brother, said she was proud that Bush would be given her
relative's artwork.
"These are not just his paintings, they are his legacy, and the fact
that they survived shows that as much as our enemies tried to destroy
the ideas that these paintings embody, they failed," she said.
Later Friday, Bush was to wrap up his three-day visit to Israel and
the Palestinian territories with a visit to Christian holy sites in
Galilee before departing for Kuwait, the next stop on his Mideast
tour.
Source: AP News
--
"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government
talking
about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order.
Nothing has
changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists,
we're
talking about getting a court order before we do so"
-George W. Bush, April 20, 2004
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed, http://yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (please contribute!)
http:yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_essays
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
.
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Scott Linder" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
12 Jan 2008 07:19:41 AM |
|
|
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Bush_US_should_have_bombed_Auschwit_01112008.html
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
Other than the Norden bombsight.
JSL
pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz. Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
Bush: US should have bombed Auschwitz
Bush Visits Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial; Says US Should
Have Bombed Auschwitz
ARON HELLER
AP News
Jan 11, 2008 06:07 EST
President Bush had tears in his eyes during an hour-long tour of
Israel's Holocaust memorial Friday and told Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice that the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt
the killing, the memorial's chairman said.
Bush emerged from a tour of the Yad Vashem memorial calling it a
"sobering reminder" that evil must be resisted, and praising victims
for not losing their faith.
Wearing a yarmulke, Bush placed a red-white-and-blue wreath on a stone
slab that covers ashes of Holocaust victims taken from six
extermination camps. He also lit a torch memorializing the victims.
Bush was visibly moved as he toured the site, said Yad Vashem's
chairman, Avner Shalev.
"Twice, I saw tears well up in his eyes," Shalev said.
At one point, Bush viewed aerial photos of the Auschwitz camp taken
during the war by U.S. forces and called Rice over to discuss why the
American government had decided against bombing the site, Shalev said.
The Allies had detailed reports about Auschwitz during the war from
Polish partisans and escaped prisoners. But they chose not to bomb the
camp, the rail lines leading to it, or any of the other Nazi death
camps, preferring instead to focus all resources on the broader
military effort, a decision that became the subject of intense
controversy years later.
Between 1.1 million and 1.5 million people were killed at the camp.
"We should have bombed it," Bush said, according to Shalev.
In the memorial's visitors' book, the president wrote simply, "God
bless Israel, George Bush."
The memorial was closed to the public and under heavy guard Friday,
with armed soldiers standing on top of some of the site's monuments
and a police helicopter and surveillance blimp hovering in the air
overhead.
"I was most impressed that people in the face of horror and evil would
not forsake their God. In the face of unspeakable crimes against
humanity, brave souls — young and old — stood strong for what they
believe," Bush said.
"I wish as many people as possible would come to this place. It is a
sobering reminder that evil exists, and a call that when evil exists
we must resist it," he said.
It was Bush's second visit to the Holocaust memorial, a regular stop
on the visits of foreign dignitaries. His first was in 1998, as
governor of Texas. The last U.S. president to visit was Bill Clinton
in 1994.
Bush, making the most extensive Mideast trip of his presidency, was
accompanied on his tour by a small party that included Rice and
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.
At the compound, overlooking a forest on Jerusalem's outskirts, Bush
visited a memorial to the 1.5 million Jewish children killed in the
Holocaust, featuring six candles reflected 1.5 million times in a hall
of mirrors. At the site's Hall of Remembrance, he heard a cantor sing
a Jewish prayer for the dead.
Shalev presented Bush with illustrations of the Bible drawn by the
Jewish artist Carol Deutsch, who perished in the Holocaust.
Deutsch created the works while in hiding from the Nazis in Belgium.
He was informed upon, and died in 1944 in the Buchenwald camp. After
the war, his daughter Ingrid discovered that the Nazis had confiscated
their furniture and valuables but had left behind a single item: a
meticulously crafted wooden box adorned with a Star of David and a
seven-branched menorah, containing a collection of 99 of the artist's
illustrations of biblical scenes.
The originals are on display at Yad Vashem. The memorial recently
decided to produce a special series of 500 replicas, the first of
which was to be presented to Bush.
Debbie Deutsch-Berman, a Yad Vashem employee whose grandfather was
Deutsch's brother, said she was proud that Bush would be given her
relative's artwork.
"These are not just his paintings, they are his legacy, and the fact
that they survived shows that as much as our enemies tried to destroy
the ideas that these paintings embody, they failed," she said.
Later Friday, Bush was to wrap up his three-day visit to Israel and
the Palestinian territories with a visit to Christian holy sites in
Galilee before departing for Kuwait, the next stop on his Mideast
tour.
Source: AP News
--
"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government
talking
about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order.
Nothing has
changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists,
we're
talking about getting a court order before we do so"
-George W. Bush, April 20, 2004
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed, http://yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (please contribute!)
http:yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_essays
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
12 Jan 2008 08:28:05 AM |
|
|
On Jan 12, 8:19 am, (Jeffrey Scott Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Bush_US_should_have_bombed_Ausch...
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
Other than the Norden bombsight.
JSL
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Scott Linder" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 08:12:49 AM |
|
|
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
JSL
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
I wonder if bombing the tracks leading to the camps might have helped?
Thats about all I can think of.
--
- Gary
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 09:10:10 AM |
|
|
On Jan 14, 9:12 am, (Jeffrey Scott Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
The thread started with a statement by Dubya, as he stood at Auschwitz
the other day, that the United States "should have bombed it," thus
suggesting that the tragedy that was the Holocaust may have been
somehow averted by dropping bombs on it.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
They weren't "feasible," Jeffrey, not by a long shot. If they were
feasible, then why was pretty much all of Europe occupied by Germany
at the time. Surely, if bombing could have liberated Paris, it would
have been done much sooner, especially given that it was so much
closer to the Allies base of operations than Poland.
It was not POSSIBLE to fly an aircraft 400-500 miles, drop bombs on
such an exacting target as Auschwitz, and somehow free all of the
prisoners and thus liberate them.
I know this comes as a shock to the neocon mindset, but bombs don't
solve most problems.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 11:21:36 AM |
|
|
On Jan 14, 10:10 am, wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:12 am, (Jeffrey Scott Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
The thread started with a statement by Dubya, as he stood at Auschwitz
the other day, that the United States "should have bombed it," thus
suggesting that the tragedy that was the Holocaust may have been
somehow averted by dropping bombs on it.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
They weren't "feasible," Jeffrey, not by a long shot. If they were
feasible, then why was pretty much all of Europe occupied by Germany
at the time. Surely, if bombing could have liberated Paris, it would
have been done much sooner, especially given that it was so much
closer to the Allies base of operations than Poland.
It was not POSSIBLE to fly an aircraft 400-500 miles, drop bombs on
such an exacting target as Auschwitz, and somehow free all of the
prisoners and thus liberate them.
As I have noted previously, I concede that the above is wrong, as of
about March-April, 1944.
I know this comes as a shock to the neocon mindset, but bombs don't
solve most problems.
But the above is still correct. It's difficult to see how simply
bombing Auschwitz would have resulted in the net saving of lives...
.
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 11:38:16 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 09:21:36 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 14, 10:10 am, wrote:
On Jan 14, 9:12 am, (Jeffrey Scott Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
The thread started with a statement by Dubya, as he stood at Auschwitz
the other day, that the United States "should have bombed it," thus
suggesting that the tragedy that was the Holocaust may have been
somehow averted by dropping bombs on it.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Actually, let's take a look at what I -did- say:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights, pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz. Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
Reliable bombsights: no. There were first generation bombsights.
Dead reckoning: Over enemy territory, yes.
Range: No. Only in the final stages of the war, when allied forces
had advanced deep into Germany, could allied bombers have struck
Auschwitz. And by then they would have would have been bombing
Russians, who captured the camp in January of 1945.
Layout: same objection stands.
They weren't "feasible," Jeffrey, not by a long shot. If they were
feasible, then why was pretty much all of Europe occupied by Germany
at the time. Surely, if bombing could have liberated Paris, it would
have been done much sooner, especially given that it was so much
closer to the Allies base of operations than Poland.
It was not POSSIBLE to fly an aircraft 400-500 miles, drop bombs on
such an exacting target as Auschwitz, and somehow free all of the
prisoners and thus liberate them.
As I have noted previously, I concede that the above is wrong, as of
about March-April, 1944.
I know this comes as a shock to the neocon mindset, but bombs don't
solve most problems.
But the above is still correct. It's difficult to see how simply
bombing Auschwitz would have resulted in the net saving of lives...
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 08:40:44 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Let's see: you've "demonstrated that some American aircraft could
reach the area in the final months of the war. Of course, by then,
the Russians were already there.
You've demonstrated that wartime propaganda said the Norden was
incredibly accurate, like a Patriot missile.
And you're going to furiously pretend that within months of the end of
the war, it was considered hopelessly obsolete.
All to back up your "commander in chief's" assertion that bombing
Auschwitz could have pretented the Holocaust.
JSL
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
I wonder if bombing the tracks leading to the camps might have helped?
Thats about all I can think of.
--
- Gary
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Scott Linder" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 11:06:39 AM |
|
|
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Let's see: you've "demonstrated that some American aircraft could
reach the area in the final months of the war. Of course, by then,
the Russians were already there.
I guess you failed to comprehend what was posted...no suprise there
since it didn't support your premise.
You've demonstrated that wartime propaganda said the Norden was
incredibly accurate, like a Patriot missile.
No I didn't. Why must you continually lie?
And you're going to furiously pretend that within months of the end of
the war, it was considered hopelessly obsolete.
What are you babbling about?
All to back up your "commander in chief's" assertion that bombing
Auschwitz could have pretented the Holocaust.
Really? Maybe you can post the part of his speech where he claimed
that it would. We all know how you like to post fantasy as fact.
JSL
.
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 11:43:19 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:39 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Yup. You obviously haven't been reading the threat. I reposted what
I wrote originally since you keep trying to modify that, just to keep
you honest. Here it is again:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights, pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz. Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Let's see: you've "demonstrated that some American aircraft could
reach the area in the final months of the war. Of course, by then,
the Russians were already there.
I guess you failed to comprehend what was posted...no suprise there
since it didn't support your premise.
My premise was that bombing Auschwitz was an idiotic idea for a
variety of reasons. What is YOUR premise?
You've demonstrated that wartime propaganda said the Norden was
incredibly accurate, like a Patriot missile.
No I didn't. Why must you continually lie?
Yes you did.
And you're going to furiously pretend that within months of the end of
the war, it was considered hopelessly obsolete.
What are you babbling about?
All to back up your "commander in chief's" assertion that bombing
Auschwitz could have pretented the Holocaust.
Really? Maybe you can post the part of his speech where he claimed
that it would. We all know how you like to post fantasy as fact.
Go read the original article, Jeffy. It's at the beginning of this
thread.
Then come back and defend the moron some more.
JSL
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Scott Linder" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
15 Jan 2008 07:29:13 AM |
|
|
3921 Dead <zeppp@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:39 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Yup. You obviously haven't been reading the threat. I reposted what
I wrote originally since you keep trying to modify that, just to keep
you honest. Here it is again:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
There were.
pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz.
They could.
Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
That's dilema.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Let's see: you've "demonstrated that some American aircraft could
reach the area in the final months of the war. Of course, by then,
the Russians were already there.
I guess you failed to comprehend what was posted...no suprise there
since it didn't support your premise.
My premise was that bombing Auschwitz was an idiotic idea for a
variety of reasons. What is YOUR premise?
Three, actually, two of which were shown to be wrong.
You've demonstrated that wartime propaganda said the Norden was
incredibly accurate, like a Patriot missile.
No I didn't. Why must you continually lie?
Yes you did.
I did? Post the part where I said the Norden bombsight was
incredibley accurate, like a Patriot missle.
And you're going to furiously pretend that within months of the end of
the war, it was considered hopelessly obsolete.
What are you babbling about?
All to back up your "commander in chief's" assertion that bombing
Auschwitz could have pretented the Holocaust.
Really? Maybe you can post the part of his speech where he claimed
that it would. We all know how you like to post fantasy as fact.
Go read the original article, Jeffy. It's at the beginning of this
thread.
"President Bush had tears in his eyes during an hour-long tour of
Israel's Holocaust memorial Friday and told Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice that the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt
the killing, the memorial's chairman said."
No mention about preventing the Holocaust at all. I guess you lied
again.
Then come back and defend the moron some more.
JSL
.
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
15 Jan 2008 08:22:31 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:29:13 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zeppp@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:39 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Yup. You obviously haven't been reading the threat. I reposted what
I wrote originally since you keep trying to modify that, just to keep
you honest. Here it is again:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
There were.
No, there ween't. The Norden was first generation.
pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz.
They could.
In 1945, by which time it was moot.
Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
That's dilema.
Why are you talking about Buddist monks? Or did you mean the South
American pack animal? With your spelling, it's a bit hard to tell.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Let's see: you've "demonstrated that some American aircraft could
reach the area in the final months of the war. Of course, by then,
the Russians were already there.
I guess you failed to comprehend what was posted...no suprise there
since it didn't support your premise.
My premise was that bombing Auschwitz was an idiotic idea for a
variety of reasons. What is YOUR premise?
Three, actually, two of which were shown to be wrong.
You've demonstrated that wartime propaganda said the Norden was
incredibly accurate, like a Patriot missile.
No I didn't. Why must you continually lie?
Yes you did.
I did? Post the part where I said the Norden bombsight was
incredibley accurate, like a Patriot missle.
And you're going to furiously pretend that within months of the end of
the war, it was considered hopelessly obsolete.
What are you babbling about?
All to back up your "commander in chief's" assertion that bombing
Auschwitz could have pretented the Holocaust.
Really? Maybe you can post the part of his speech where he claimed
that it would. We all know how you like to post fantasy as fact.
Go read the original article, Jeffy. It's at the beginning of this
thread.
"President Bush had tears in his eyes during an hour-long tour of
Israel's Holocaust memorial Friday and told Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice that the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt
the killing, the memorial's chairman said."
No mention about preventing the Holocaust at all. I guess you lied
again.
Then come back and defend the moron some more.
JSL
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Scott Linder" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
15 Jan 2008 11:55:19 AM |
|
|
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:29:13 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zeppp@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:39 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Yup. You obviously haven't been reading the threat. I reposted what
I wrote originally since you keep trying to modify that, just to keep
you honest. Here it is again:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
There were.
No, there ween't. The Norden was first generation.
So? It didn't mean they weren't reliable.
pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz.
They could.
In 1945, by which time it was moot.
Before 1945 as has been pointed out to you more than once.
Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
That's dilema.
Why are you talking about Buddist monks? Or did you mean the South
American pack animal? With your spelling, it's a bit hard to tell.
Wow, another spelling flame.
"That's the dilema"
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Let's see: you've "demonstrated that some American aircraft could
reach the area in the final months of the war. Of course, by then,
the Russians were already there.
I guess you failed to comprehend what was posted...no suprise there
since it didn't support your premise.
My premise was that bombing Auschwitz was an idiotic idea for a
variety of reasons. What is YOUR premise?
Three, actually, two of which were shown to be wrong.
You've demonstrated that wartime propaganda said the Norden was
incredibly accurate, like a Patriot missile.
No I didn't. Why must you continually lie?
Yes you did.
I did? Post the part where I said the Norden bombsight was
incredibley accurate, like a Patriot missle.
I see you couldn't support your claim yet again.
And you're going to furiously pretend that within months of the end of
the war, it was considered hopelessly obsolete.
What are you babbling about?
All to back up your "commander in chief's" assertion that bombing
Auschwitz could have pretented the Holocaust.
Really? Maybe you can post the part of his speech where he claimed
that it would. We all know how you like to post fantasy as fact.
Go read the original article, Jeffy. It's at the beginning of this
thread.
"President Bush had tears in his eyes during an hour-long tour of
Israel's Holocaust memorial Friday and told Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice that the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt
the killing, the memorial's chairman said."
No mention about preventing the Holocaust at all. I guess you lied
again.
No response....of course not...you lied yet again.
JSL
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
15 Jan 2008 09:53:13 AM |
|
|
On Jan 15, 9:22 am, 3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:29:13 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <ze...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:39 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Yup. You obviously haven't been reading the threat. I reposted what
I wrote originally since you keep trying to modify that, just to keep
you honest. Here it is again:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
There were.
No, there ween't. The Norden was first generation.
Yeah, even those who argue that we should have bombed don't argue that
we could have done it before April, 1944. It was technically feasible
by then, as we had established air bases far closer than before. The
question became, was it practical? These guys talk as if there was an
unlimited supply of bombers, an unlimited supply of bombs, and an
unlimited supply of pilots capable of using the Norden bombsight in
the first place. If you were able to bomb Auschwitz and somehow
magically free a thousand or so prisoners, how long does that effort
extend the overall war, and how many lives would be lost then?
Again, the problem with Bush and all neocons, is that they think
bombing alone solves a problem, and it doesn't. For Chrissakes; if he
hasn't figured that out after 5 years of Iraq occupation, then he's
dumber than even I gave him credit for.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Steve" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
15 Jan 2008 09:59:05 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:53:13 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 15, 9:22 am, 3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:29:13 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <ze...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:39 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Yup. You obviously haven't been reading the threat. I reposted what
I wrote originally since you keep trying to modify that, just to keep
you honest. Here it is again:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
There were.
No, there ween't. The Norden was first generation.
Yeah, even those who argue that we should have bombed don't argue that
we could have done it before April, 1944.
Don't have to argue it.. it's a proven fact that "we could have done
it before April, 1944. "
t was technically feasible
by then, as we had established air bases far closer than before. The
question became, was it practical? These guys talk as if there was an
unlimited supply of bombers, an unlimited supply of bombs, and an
unlimited supply of pilots capable of using the Norden bombsight in
the first place. If you were able to bomb Auschwitz and somehow
magically free a thousand or so prisoners, how long does that effort
extend the overall war, and how many lives would be lost then?
Again, the problem with Bush and all neocons, is that they think
bombing alone solves a problem, and it doesn't. For Chrissakes; if he
hasn't figured that out after 5 years of Iraq occupation, then he's
dumber than even I gave him credit for.
Watch the pathetic loons change their story as their each of their
arguments is shot down..
"And if I sell stock, my asset level is reduced by the
amount of that stock, EVEN IF the stock I sell is sold
for more than I paid for it."
--Milt Shook.
..
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.impeach.bush/msg/0f58111c6acb0ce8?hl=en&
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
15 Jan 2008 10:56:10 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 07:53:13 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 15, 9:22 am, 3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:29:13 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <ze...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:06:39 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
He did? Maybe you can post the part where Bush touted the virtues of
the Norden bombsight.
Yup. You obviously haven't been reading the threat. I reposted what
I wrote originally since you keep trying to modify that, just to keep
you honest. Here it is again:
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
There were.
No, there ween't. The Norden was first generation.
Yeah, even those who argue that we should have bombed don't argue that
we could have done it before April, 1944. It was technically feasible
by then, as we had established air bases far closer than before. The
question became, was it practical? These guys talk as if there was an
unlimited supply of bombers, an unlimited supply of bombs, and an
unlimited supply of pilots capable of using the Norden bombsight in
the first place. If you were able to bomb Auschwitz and somehow
magically free a thousand or so prisoners, how long does that effort
extend the overall war, and how many lives would be lost then?
Again, the problem with Bush and all neocons, is that they think
bombing alone solves a problem, and it doesn't. For Chrissakes; if he
hasn't figured that out after 5 years of Iraq occupation, then he's
dumber than even I gave him credit for.
And bombing civilian areas doesn't help at all. Any Londoner can tell
you that, and even after the firebombings of Dresden and Toyko, the
people of those respective cities kept their resolve.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steve" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 01:54:57 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:40:44 GMT, 3921 Dead
<zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:12:49 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spikeNOT@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's at wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Who said they would?
Your fearless leader, George of the Bungle.
Zepp's claim was that the bombings were not feasible for two reasons,
both of which have been shown to be untrue.
Let's see: you've "demonstrated that some American aircraft could
reach the area in the final months of the war. Of course, by then,
the Russians were already there.
Actually, many bombers could have reached it long before then...
You've demonstrated that wartime propaganda said the Norden was
incredibly accurate, like a Patriot missile.
And you're going to furiously pretend that within months of the end of
the war, it was considered hopelessly obsolete.
All to back up your "commander in chief's" assertion that bombing
Auschwitz could have pretented the Holocaust.
JSL
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
I wonder if bombing the tracks leading to the camps might have helped?
Thats about all I can think of.
--
- Gary
"And if I sell stock, my asset level is reduced by the
amount of that stock, EVEN IF the stock I sell is sold
for more than I paid for it."
--Milt Shook.
..
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.impeach.bush/msg/0f58111c6acb0ce8?hl=en&
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
13 Jan 2008 01:32:28 PM |
|
|
On Jan 13, 1:17 pm, Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
I wonder if bombing the tracks leading to the camps might have helped?
Thats about all I can think of.
Probably for a few days, until they shipped them somewhere else. There
were six camps, and other smaller camps adjacent to those.
And you still have the logistical problem, in that you'd have to fly
over 400-500 miles of occupied territory to even get there. And
presumably back. Not too many bombers with a 1000 mile range back
then.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Gary DeWaay" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 10:08:04 AM |
|
|
's at wisdom:
On Jan 13, 1:17 pm, Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
I wonder if bombing the tracks leading to the camps might have helped?
Thats about all I can think of.
Probably for a few days, until they shipped them somewhere else. There
were six camps, and other smaller camps adjacent to those.
And you still have the logistical problem, in that you'd have to fly
over 400-500 miles of occupied territory to even get there. And
presumably back. Not too many bombers with a 1000 mile range back
then.
Yea, I suppose you're right. Prolly not much we coulda done, sadly.
The kicker is that the Shrub prolly didn't realize we didn't possess the
same precision weapons we have now.
"Why didn't we fly one of our big black funny lookin stealthy thangs in
there?"
--
- Gary
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Steve" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
13 Jan 2008 07:20:27 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:32:28 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 13, 1:17 pm, Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
I wonder if bombing the tracks leading to the camps might have helped?
Thats about all I can think of.
Probably for a few days, until they shipped them somewhere else. There
were six camps, and other smaller camps adjacent to those.
And you still have the logistical problem, in that you'd have to fly
over 400-500 miles of occupied territory to even get there. And
presumably back. Not too many bombers with a 1000 mile range back
then.
<ROFL>
Actually, there were quite a few with more than a 2000 mile range.
"And if I sell stock, my asset level is reduced by the
amount of that stock, EVEN IF the stock I sell is sold
for more than I paid for it."
--Milt Shook.
..
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.impeach.bush/msg/0f58111c6acb0ce8?hl=en&
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
13 Jan 2008 02:26:41 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 11:32:28 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 13, 1:17 pm, Gary DeWaay <dewaay2spike...@sio.midco.net> wrote:
's wisdom:
Really, Jeffrey? Obviously, you haven't been reading the thread.
But hey; why don't you explain to us how the Norden bombsight would
have performed well enough to allow the Allies to only kill the
Germans, and "liberate" the prisoners in the camps.
Keep in mind, Bush was trying to suggest that the mere bombing of
something apparently prevents the "evildoers" from, well, doing their
evil. Please explain how the Norden bombsight (great Googling there,
Sparky!) would have made that possible.
Can't wait to read it.
I wonder if bombing the tracks leading to the camps might have helped?
Thats about all I can think of.
Probably for a few days, until they shipped them somewhere else. There
were six camps, and other smaller camps adjacent to those.
And you still have the logistical problem, in that you'd have to fly
over 400-500 miles of occupied territory to even get there. And
presumably back. Not too many bombers with a 1000 mile range back
then.
We didn't really KNOW about the extermination camps in Poland, either.
We knew about the regular work camps, and could surmise that
conditions were pretty horrible there (although 60 Minutes a few
months ago had an extraordinary interview with a girl who was an
unwilling participant in over-the-top efforts by the Nazis to make a
work camp look like heaven on earth for visiting Red Cross
inspectors).
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
12 Jan 2008 09:38:32 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:19:41 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Bush_US_should_have_bombed_Auschwit_01112008.html
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
Other than the Norden bombsight.
It was the FIRST real bombsight, and has been improved upon many times
since then. By today's standards, it wasn't a very good bombsight.
But it still wouldn't allow the plane to drop bombs that killed only
those handful of Germans who were surrounded by thousands of
prisoners, or make big heavy allied bombers fly all the way to western
Poland and back in one run.
Face it: it was one of Putsch's most idiotic statements yet.
JSL
pilots flew
by dead reckoning often as not, and they were doing good if the could
hit the right CITY. I'm not even sure their bombers had the range to
even REACH Auschwitz. Then there's the layout of the camps. If a
bombing run was accurate against all expectation, they would have
killed dozens of Germans--and thousands of Jews]
Bush: US should have bombed Auschwitz
Bush Visits Israel's Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial; Says US Should
Have Bombed Auschwitz
ARON HELLER
AP News
Jan 11, 2008 06:07 EST
President Bush had tears in his eyes during an hour-long tour of
Israel's Holocaust memorial Friday and told Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice that the U.S. should have bombed Auschwitz to halt
the killing, the memorial's chairman said.
Bush emerged from a tour of the Yad Vashem memorial calling it a
"sobering reminder" that evil must be resisted, and praising victims
for not losing their faith.
Wearing a yarmulke, Bush placed a red-white-and-blue wreath on a stone
slab that covers ashes of Holocaust victims taken from six
extermination camps. He also lit a torch memorializing the victims.
Bush was visibly moved as he toured the site, said Yad Vashem's
chairman, Avner Shalev.
"Twice, I saw tears well up in his eyes," Shalev said.
At one point, Bush viewed aerial photos of the Auschwitz camp taken
during the war by U.S. forces and called Rice over to discuss why the
American government had decided against bombing the site, Shalev said.
The Allies had detailed reports about Auschwitz during the war from
Polish partisans and escaped prisoners. But they chose not to bomb the
camp, the rail lines leading to it, or any of the other Nazi death
camps, preferring instead to focus all resources on the broader
military effort, a decision that became the subject of intense
controversy years later.
Between 1.1 million and 1.5 million people were killed at the camp.
"We should have bombed it," Bush said, according to Shalev.
In the memorial's visitors' book, the president wrote simply, "God
bless Israel, George Bush."
The memorial was closed to the public and under heavy guard Friday,
with armed soldiers standing on top of some of the site's monuments
and a police helicopter and surveillance blimp hovering in the air
overhead.
"I was most impressed that people in the face of horror and evil would
not forsake their God. In the face of unspeakable crimes against
humanity, brave souls — young and old — stood strong for what they
believe," Bush said.
"I wish as many people as possible would come to this place. It is a
sobering reminder that evil exists, and a call that when evil exists
we must resist it," he said.
It was Bush's second visit to the Holocaust memorial, a regular stop
on the visits of foreign dignitaries. His first was in 1998, as
governor of Texas. The last U.S. president to visit was Bill Clinton
in 1994.
Bush, making the most extensive Mideast trip of his presidency, was
accompanied on his tour by a small party that included Rice and
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.
At the compound, overlooking a forest on Jerusalem's outskirts, Bush
visited a memorial to the 1.5 million Jewish children killed in the
Holocaust, featuring six candles reflected 1.5 million times in a hall
of mirrors. At the site's Hall of Remembrance, he heard a cantor sing
a Jewish prayer for the dead.
Shalev presented Bush with illustrations of the Bible drawn by the
Jewish artist Carol Deutsch, who perished in the Holocaust.
Deutsch created the works while in hiding from the Nazis in Belgium.
He was informed upon, and died in 1944 in the Buchenwald camp. After
the war, his daughter Ingrid discovered that the Nazis had confiscated
their furniture and valuables but had left behind a single item: a
meticulously crafted wooden box adorned with a Star of David and a
seven-branched menorah, containing a collection of 99 of the artist's
illustrations of biblical scenes.
The originals are on display at Yad Vashem. The memorial recently
decided to produce a special series of 500 replicas, the first of
which was to be presented to Bush.
Debbie Deutsch-Berman, a Yad Vashem employee whose grandfather was
Deutsch's brother, said she was proud that Bush would be given her
relative's artwork.
"These are not just his paintings, they are his legacy, and the fact
that they survived shows that as much as our enemies tried to destroy
the ideas that these paintings embody, they failed," she said.
Later Friday, Bush was to wrap up his three-day visit to Israel and
the Palestinian territories with a visit to Christian holy sites in
Galilee before departing for Kuwait, the next stop on his Mideast
tour.
Source: AP News
--
"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government
talking
about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order.
Nothing has
changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists,
we're
talking about getting a court order before we do so"
-George W. Bush, April 20, 2004
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed, http://yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_news
For essays (please contribute!)
http:yahoogroups/subscribe/zepps_essays
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Scott Linder" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
13 Jan 2008 07:14:28 AM |
|
|
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:19:41 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Bush_US_should_have_bombed_Auschwit_01112008.html
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
Other than the Norden bombsight.
It was the FIRST real bombsight, and has been improved upon many times
since then. By today's standards, it wasn't a very good bombsight.
It was reliable, however, and quite adequate to hit such camps. Were
there precision guided munitions? No.
But it still wouldn't allow the plane to drop bombs that killed only
those handful of Germans who were surrounded by thousands of
prisoners, or make big heavy allied bombers fly all the way to western
Poland and back in one run.
I'll have to look that up...pardon me if I don't believe you...you
have an abysmal track record.
Face it: it was one of Putsch's most idiotic statements yet.
Almost on par with some of yours.
JSL
.
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Scott Linder" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 08:11:33 AM |
|
|
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:15:08 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 13, 8:14 am, (Jeffrey Scott Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 13:19:41 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113...@finestplanet.com> wrote:
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Bush_US_should_have_bombed_Ausch...
[Zeppnote: I wonder if this easily-manipulated clown stopped to
consider that in WW2, there were no reliable bombsights,
Other than the Norden bombsight.
It was the FIRST real bombsight, and has been improved upon many times
since then. By today's standards, it wasn't a very good bombsight.
It was reliable, however, and quite adequate to hit such camps. Were
there precision guided munitions? No.
So, first you're claiming that hitting a camp like Auschwitz, where
there were a few hundred soldiers, at most, and several thousand
prisoners, could be done, because the available equipment was
"adequate."
Yes it could have been done, despite assertions to the contrary.
Would it have been very effective from a military standpoint? No. A
moral standpoint? Tricky question.
But it still wouldn't allow the plane to drop bombs that killed only
those handful of Germans who were surrounded by thousands of
prisoners, or make big heavy allied bombers fly all the way to western
Poland and back in one run.
I'll have to look that up...pardon me if I don't believe you...you
have an abysmal track record.
And now, you're claiming that the equipment might not have been
adequate at all, because Zepp doesn't agree with Bush.
No. I said I would look it up myself because Zepp is usually wrong
about anything factual he posts.
The Bombing of Auschwitz Re-Examined
James H. Kitchens
The Journal of Military History, Vol. 58, No. 2. (Apr., 1994), pp.
233-266.
"Legality aside, bombing Auschwitz also becomes a radically different
problem is casualties within the camp are disregarded. This would
have made operations by B-17's and B-24's technically feasible, for
example."
Face it: it was one of Putsch's most idiotic statements yet.
Almost on par with some of yours.
Jeffrey, your idiotic posts don't write themselves...
I suppose if Jeffy didn't exist, we would have to invent him.
Comic relief, you know.
--
What do you call a Republican with a conscience?
An ex-Republican.
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=8827 (From Yang, AthD (h.c)
"I simply can not believe this is what the Republican party has
become. I just can’t. It just makes me sick to think all those years
of supporting this party, and this is what it has become. Even if you
don’t like the S-Chip expansion, it is hard to deny what Republicans
are- a bunch of bitter, nasty, petty, snarling, sneering, vicious
thugs, peering through people’s windows so they can make fun of their
misfortune.
I’m registering Independent tomorrow."
Putsch: leading America to asymetric warfare since 2001
Not dead, in jail, or a slave? Thank a liberal!
Pay your taxes so the rich don't have to.
For the finest in liberal/leftist commentary,
http://www.zeppscommentaries.com
For news feed (free, 10-20 articles a day)
Zepps_News-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
For essays (donations accepted, 2 articles/week)
Zepps_essays-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
a.a. #2211 -- Bryan Zepp Jamieson
.
|
|
|
| User: "3921 Dead" |
|
| Title: Re: #Putsch: US should have bombed Auschwitz |
14 Jan 2008 09:17:56 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 14 Jan 2008 14:11:33 GMT, (Jeffrey Scott
Linder) wrote:
3921 Dead <zepp22113921@finestplanet.com> wrote:
On Sun, 13 Jan 2008 09:15:08 -0800 (PST), wrote:
On Jan 13, 8:14 am, | | | | | |
