All over America, Conservatives are pondering how to stop the apparent
momentum of Senator John McCain in the Republican Primaries. While we agree
that it is significant that John McCain was in the lowest 1.2% of his
graduation class at the Naval Academy--no "leadership" there;--that it is
significant that he has an explosive and uncontrollable temper, which makes
him totally unsuitable to have his finger on a nuclear trigger, even if he
were not an advocate of virtually endless war; neither of these facts will
be accepted by enough people in time to stop the McCain momentum. And as
for those who, in my opinion unfairly, question the stories of McCain's
bravery and heroism, forty years ago? That will only backfire. The issues,
not anything that sounds like a cheap shot, must be our methodology.
No the way to stop McCain is by forcing other Americans to pay attention to
the failure of McCain on the real issues of the day. And the way to do that
is to ask questions, everywhere that you can; questions, which bring out the
core of his foolish stands, questionable policies and ignorance of political
and economic reality. We need to use whatever access we have to others--the
broadcast & print medias, the internet, our daily conversations--to ask:
1. Does his work with Teddy Kennedy, who has promoted an immigration policy
that favors third world peoples over Europeans for over 40 years, indicate a
bias against ethnic Americans or not? His claim that he has now heard the
message from the American people that they want to secure the border, does
not answer the question, why he was not willing to defend the border
earlier! Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so
why? Does he even understand the cultural as well as economic effect of
what has been happening over the past 15 years? The ruined schools,
hospitals, neighborhoods? The soaring crime? Does he agree with his close
supporter Lyndsey Graham, that those of us who want to preserve the
traditional culture of America, in the face of this influx, are "bigots?"
2. How can Americans protect the value of our money, if McCain would keeps
us in Iraq, protecting & rebuilding that country, for up to 100 years (his
statement)? Why should Americans be taxed for such purpose--either directly
or via increasing inflation of our money? Would a pacified Iraq prove more
successful for America than a for a time pacified Ireland proved for British
interests? How would our continued occupation of 2% of the Islamic world
persuade people in the other 98%, who resent that occupation, that they
should not support our enemies? Can we possibly afford to take on the other
98% in endless--in mad and insane--preemptive Wars? Does McCain even think
about these questions, when he struts around, claiming to be motivated by
"American" interests?
Would it have been an effective way to fight crime in New York City, had
McCain supporter Giuliani, placed most of his Police force on Staten Island,
and claimed that by suppressing crime in the least Crime infested Borough,
he was somehow fighting Crime in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan & Queens?
If the idea would have been laughable there; how is it rational in the 2% of
the Islamic World that we now occupy?
3. McCain brags about calling for the "surge" in Iraq, early, as though
that proves his insight and "leadership." Has anyone, ever, suggested that
putting more troops in the field against the same number of enemy
combatants, would not improve the purely military results--that is short of
putting so many into the fray that they get in each other's way? McCain
boasts about the obvious, when the real issue is why we continue to provide
security & rebuilding in a land that now has its own Government, five years
after we conquered it? Why do we risk American lives to rebuild the
infra-structure in Iraq, which sits on a sea of salable oil, while hundreds
of American bridges--as the one that collapsed recently in Minnesota--are
reported to be in danger of collapse? Why do we provide security in Iraq,
when our own borders go largely unprotected? While McCain does not talk
about the economics of stepping up the efforts in Iraq; nor what would
actually follow a pacified Iraq; his policy is manifestly not the sort of
mission the Constitution envisioned.
To make the point, ask where in the Constitution there is one word that
suggests social engineering in other lands? Subsidization of foreign lands?
Sacrificing American lives for foreign lands? Ask what McCain thinks would
have been the result had the French fleet, which showed up at Yorktown at
the right moment in 1781, remained in the newly independent America, to
restore stability in communities where up to a third of the population had
openly opposed the Revolution? Would Americans have been freer as a result
of such foreign involvement in our affairs? Would we have been more
responsible in our actions and attitudes? Is not the very essence of
freedom, in any land, that people chart their own course, in their own way;
protect their own communities from their own dissidents, without foreign
meddling? (And build their own bridges, with their own resources?)
Looking at the same thing from a slightly different perspective. McCain
squabbles like an eight year old on the playground, over whether one of his
rivals wanted a time table for withdrawal from Iraq, while avoiding the real
issues, which all go to the question of what exactly we accomplish if we
continue to stay there?
4. McCain seeks to define the fight against the terrorists as the epic
struggle of the Twenty-first Century. Does not this "drama queen"
foolishness glorify the terrorists among all who do not like us, and
significantly aids in their recruiting efforts? Is not being a participant
in the defining struggle of the century, something that those who do not
like us, would consider more worth dying for, than simply being an
international thug, anarchist, or something equally reprehensible? To
emphasize how silly this is, ask McCain--or his supporters--how a band of
fanatics, who have no army, navy or airforce; who have sovereign authority
over no land; who have only the ability to recruit criminals and outlaws;
are capable of waging the epic battle he apparently foresees, if we stop
glamorizing them, and simply concentrate on isolating them; and then mopping
up and destroying them?
5. If McCain is hysterical on his signature issue, how can we trust his
judgment on any major issue? Has he shown any knowledge of economics? Any
understanding of the relationship between policies that he advocates and the
decline in the dollar? He talks about reducing spending, but does not tell
us where we can make a significant difference. Yes, he attacks "pork
barrel" expenditures in America, though not what is nearly a trillion
dollars in Iraq; not foreign aid, in general. But it is not in the "pork"
that the greatest waste takes place. Has he proposed getting the Federal
Government out of education? He claims to have been a Reagan
"foot-soldier"; has he proposed continuing with those parts of the Reagan
agenda that got side-tracked in Congress, which would have reduced such
Federal domestic roles, those never authorized in the Constitution, such as
the idiotic "no child left behind" policy; or the extraordinarily wasteful
Federal Medicare & Medicaid subsidies, including those going to illegal
aliens, whom he does not want to deport?
Ask questions that bring the real issues into play. Questions that reveal
the intellectual nakedness of the McCain campaign. Ask questions in the
words that you are most comfortable with. And keep asking them, every
chance you get, between now and the coming primaries.
The above suggestions, but scratch the surface!
William Flax
Attorney At Law
Cincinnati, Ohio
P.S. For a real contrast to McCain, take a closer look at Ron Paul:
http://pages.prodigy.net/krtq73aa/decision.htm
.
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 03:49:31 PM |
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|
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net>
All over America, Conservatives are pondering how to stop the apparent
momentum of Senator John McCain in the Republican Primaries. While we agree
that it is significant that John McCain was in the lowest 1.2% of his
graduation class at the Naval Academy--no "leadership" there;--that it is
significant that he has an explosive and uncontrollable temper, which makes
him totally unsuitable to have his finger on a nuclear trigger, even if he
were not an advocate of virtually endless war; neither of these facts will
be accepted by enough people in time to stop the McCain momentum. And as
for those who, in my opinion unfairly, question the stories of McCain's
bravery and heroism, forty years ago? That will only backfire. The issues,
not anything that sounds like a cheap shot, must be our methodology.
No the way to stop McCain is by forcing other Americans to pay attention to
the failure of McCain on the real issues of the day. And the way to do that
is to ask questions, everywhere that you can; questions, which bring out the
core of his foolish stands, questionable policies and ignorance of political
and economic reality. We need to use whatever access we have to others--the
broadcast & print medias, the internet, our daily conversations--to ask:
1. Does his work with Teddy Kennedy, who has promoted an immigration policy
that favors third world peoples over Europeans for over 40 years, indicate a
bias against ethnic Americans or not? His claim that he has now heard the
message from the American people that they want to secure the border, does
not answer the question, why he was not willing to defend the border
earlier! Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so
why?
Perhaps because those of us who live out here in Arizona are not nearly
so concerned over such things as you back there huddled around Fountain
Square?
-- cary
.
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| User: "William Flax" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 04:13:50 PM |
|
|
See Below:
"Cary Kittrell" <cary@afone.as.arizona.edu> wrote in message
news:fo045b$nkh$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu...
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net>
All over America, Conservatives are pondering how to stop the apparent
momentum of Senator John McCain in the Republican Primaries. While we
agree
that it is significant that John McCain was in the lowest 1.2% of his
graduation class at the Naval Academy--no "leadership" there;--that it
is
significant that he has an explosive and uncontrollable temper, which
makes
him totally unsuitable to have his finger on a nuclear trigger, even if
he
were not an advocate of virtually endless war; neither of these facts
will
be accepted by enough people in time to stop the McCain momentum. And
as
for those who, in my opinion unfairly, question the stories of McCain's
bravery and heroism, forty years ago? That will only backfire. The
issues,
not anything that sounds like a cheap shot, must be our methodology.
No the way to stop McCain is by forcing other Americans to pay attention
to
the failure of McCain on the real issues of the day. And the way to do
that
is to ask questions, everywhere that you can; questions, which bring out
the
core of his foolish stands, questionable policies and ignorance of
political
and economic reality. We need to use whatever access we have to
others--the
broadcast & print medias, the internet, our daily conversations--to ask:
1. Does his work with Teddy Kennedy, who has promoted an immigration
policy
that favors third world peoples over Europeans for over 40 years,
indicate a
bias against ethnic Americans or not? His claim that he has now heard
the
message from the American people that they want to secure the border,
does
not answer the question, why he was not willing to defend the border
earlier! Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if
so
why?
Perhaps because those of us who live out here in Arizona are not nearly
so concerned over such things as you back there huddled around Fountain
Square?
-- cary
Well, that is too bad. But the Senator has many times sworn to uphold the
Constitution, and its stated purpose, among other more generalized concepts,
was to ensure the "Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
The man's sworn duty was to that ethnic character. Live with it.
By the way, despite the inscription that some politician chose for the
Statue of Liberty, most Americans do not huddle around monuments or in
public places. And we do not want to see America turned into a land of
huddlers, replacing the free & confident men and women, of the type which
made us the most successful people on earth.
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 08:02:36 PM |
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|
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> wrote:
Well, that is too bad. But the Senator has many times sworn to uphold the
Constitution, and its stated purpose, among other more generalized concepts,
was to ensure the "Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
The man's sworn duty was to that ethnic character
Where does the constitution mention "ethnic character"? Do you think
that the "ethnic character" of this country since McCain has been in
office is anything like that of 1789? Do you think your posterity
will necessarily be of the same ethnic character as you? Will you be
surprised when your son or daughter marries someone of a different
ethnicity, or adopts someone of a different ethnicity?
Live with it.
Actually, you are the one who needs to learn to "live with it".
By the way, despite the inscription that some politician chose for the
Statue of Liberty, most Americans do not huddle around monuments or in
public places.
No. A lot of them watch and admire athletes huddling on a football
field however.
And we do not want to see America turned into a land of huddlers,
You obviously don't like football. You must be unAmerican.
The full text of the inscription:
<Give me your tired, your poor,
<Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
<The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
<Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
<I lift my lamp beside the golden door.
Where does that say that the huddled masses will still be huddling
once they get here, and no longer are wretched refuse, but instead are
breathing free?
Do you think that the millions of people who immigrated over the next
50 years after the Statue of Liberty was erected remained "huddlers"
once they arrived here?
replacing the free & confident men and women,
Why would they replace us? They aren't like our ancestors, who did
thus unto the original Americans who were indeed free and confident
until Europeans came, then were decimated by our diseases, cheated out
of their land, and then shoved onto reservations in the least-wanted
pieces of land that remained.
of the type which made us the most successful people on earth.
If we are the most successful people on earth, it is BECAUSE we
accepted all those huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Meanwhile, you appear to be unaware that a huge percentage of the
people who came to this land in the colonial period were the scum of
Great Britain (and other countries). Georgia was founded as a prison
colony. Most people who came to Virginia did so as indentured
servants. And of course the wealth of this country was largely built
by black slaves who picked the cotton that fueled our enormous growth
in the 19th century (both in the south and the Northeast textile
mills).
Do you think that people who were successful in Europe would be the
ones who would leave that established wealth and success to go to a
new land thousands of miles away? No. It was the huddled masses, the
wretched refuse, yearning to breathe free. Your ancestors were
huddled masses, as were mine.
lojbab
.
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| User: "Tani Jantsang©" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 10:34:40 PM |
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|
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:5pj7q3pqdpas9afllch983gl3enofqbrh3@4ax.com...
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> wrote:
Well, that is too bad. But the Senator has many times sworn to uphold the
Constitution, and its stated purpose, among other more generalized
concepts,
was to ensure the "Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
The man's sworn duty was to that ethnic character
Where does the constitution mention "ethnic character"? Do you think
that the "ethnic character" of this country since McCain has been in
office is anything like that of 1789? Do you think your posterity
will necessarily be of the same ethnic character as you? Will you be
surprised when your son or daughter marries someone of a different
ethnicity, or adopts someone of a different ethnicity?
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 12:05:42 AM |
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"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
What is "Western Civ"? And why would I care?
lojbab
.
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| User: "Tani Jantsang©" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 09:52:01 AM |
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|
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:o028q3tik7v2e0a7b07gm8a7u1g5ic223d@4ax.com...
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
What is "Western Civ"? And why would I care?
Well, it's the culture of western europe and the USA - it's the culture that
enables you to "think" the things you think right now - and NOT think in
terms of overbearing religious tyranny. It's the culture that gave us
modern industry and technology - and public schools :)
lojbab
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 10:42:01 AM |
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"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:o028q3tik7v2e0a7b07gm8a7u1g5ic223d@4ax.com...
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
What is "Western Civ"? And why would I care?
Well, it's the culture of western europe and the USA
Western Europe and the USA share very little 'culture'. They are part
of our history, but then so is the history of the African wars that
fed the slave trade. We just happen to know more about one than the
other.
I see no reason why the respect for European art or music or
literature would be lost in this country by bring in elements of other
cultures.
Values? We've never shared the same values as Europe. People who
have come here have done so largely because they have rejected some
major aspect of European values.
Meanwhile American civilization, which is something distinct from
"European civilization" is strong and not threatened.
lojbab
.
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| User: "Tani Jantsang©" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 01:08:28 PM |
|
|
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:od69q39r8dmorrvprc3s3d4ebfpjd2n9t5@4ax.com...
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:o028q3tik7v2e0a7b07gm8a7u1g5ic223d@4ax.com...
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
What is "Western Civ"? And why would I care?
Well, it's the culture of western europe and the USA
Western Europe and the USA share very little 'culture'. They are part
of our history, but then so is the history of the African wars that
fed the slave trade. We just happen to know more about one than the
other.
I see no reason why the respect for European art or music or
literature would be lost in this country by bring in elements of other
cultures.
OH, I don't give a ***** about art or music since that's purely asthetic,
same for literature. I'm referring to ENLIGHTENMENT values. You are not
gonna suggest that Islam is part of that value system, are you? And no,
neither is hard core Christianity since the enightenment people FOUGHT
against Altar and Throne, Bob. They were FREEMASONS.
Values? We've never shared the same values as Europe. People who
have come here have done so largely because they have rejected some
major aspect of European values.
I'm talking about the Enlightenment.
Meanwhile American civilization, which is something distinct from
"European civilization" is strong and not threatened.
Yes, it is. It was threatned by the hard core leftists in the 60s - and now
it's threatened by the hard core rightists in reaction to the lefties. It's
threatened.
The language is also threatened - yet English is the language of commerce
and so forth.
lojbab
.
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| User: "David Eduardo" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 01:18:48 PM |
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|
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote in message
news:13q9ftgc81m3s2e@corp.supernews.com...
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:od69q39r8dmorrvprc3s3d4ebfpjd2n9t5@4ax.com...
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:o028q3tik7v2e0a7b07gm8a7u1g5ic223d@4ax.com...
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
What is "Western Civ"? And why would I care?
Well, it's the culture of western europe and the USA
Western Europe and the USA share very little 'culture'. They are part
of our history, but then so is the history of the African wars that
fed the slave trade. We just happen to know more about one than the
other.
I see no reason why the respect for European art or music or
literature would be lost in this country by bring in elements of other
cultures.
OH, I don't give a ***** about art or music since that's purely asthetic,
same for literature. I'm referring to ENLIGHTENMENT values. You are not
gonna suggest that Islam is part of that value system, are you? And no,
neither is hard core Christianity since the enightenment people FOUGHT
against Altar and Throne, Bob. They were FREEMASONS.
Esthetics (art) and the sciences generally are different manifestations of a
society that encourages new thinking and is more free than restricted. The
development of much of today's base for mathematics, such as algebra, came
from the Islamic world, in fact, in a period where it encouraged learning
and thinking. Many societies have periods of extreme intellectual growth and
others of repression or darkness. Enlightenment is not the sole province of
English speaking persons or Europeans.
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 02:30:13 PM |
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"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
OH, I don't give a ***** about art or music since that's purely asthetic,
same for literature. I'm referring to ENLIGHTENMENT values.
Which ones are those?
You are not gonna suggest that Islam is part of that value system, are you?
I have no opinion, since I don't really know what you think that value
system consists of. From what I know of enlightenment values, they
aren't too consistent with evangelical Christianity, or with
Catholicism or Judaism, The enlightenment had little effect on
Eastern Europe or southern Europe or Ireland. In short, most
immigration since about 1840 has been from unenlightened countries,
with the exception of a burst from Germany that fled that country
after the failed 1848 revolution.
And no, neither is hard core Christianity since the enightenment people FOUGHT
against Altar and Throne, Bob. They were FREEMASONS.
Yet evangelical Christianity dominated this country from around 1815
until after the civil war, and among other things fought for the end
of slavery.
Values? We've never shared the same values as Europe. People who
have come here have done so largely because they have rejected some
major aspect of European values.
I'm talking about the Enlightenment.
You seem to think that
a) there is some particularly valuable cultural icons from the
Enlightenment
b) that those cultural icons are at risk from immigration from
non-European sources.
c) that Europe values those icons the way that we do.
I don't think so.
Meanwhile American civilization, which is something distinct from
"European civilization" is strong and not threatened.
Yes, it is. It was threatned by the hard core leftists in the 60s
How was it threatened?
and now it's threatened by the hard core rightists in reaction to the lefties. It's
threatened.
You can say it, but I suspect that any aspect that is "threatened"
never really was a core "American value".
The language is also threatened
No.
yet English is the language of commerce and so forth.
Commerce will always take place in some language. While it would be
convenient to monolingual me for it to take place in English, I can't
claim that carrying on a transaction using some other language
threatens me in any way.
lojbab
.
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| User: "Starkiller" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 12:16:24 AM |
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|
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:05:42 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
<lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
What is "Western Civ"? And why would I care?
lojbab
Western civilization - the modern culture of western Europe and North
America.
Assalamu alaikum
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 10:47:08 AM |
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Starkiller <NoSpam.SKS_SKanz@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 01:05:42 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
<lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
What is "Western Civ"? And why would I care?
lojbab
Western civilization - the modern culture of western Europe and North
America.
What are the aspects of that culture that are threatened?
lojbab
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 10:46:18 PM |
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|
On Fri, 1 Feb 2008 23:34:40 -0500, "Tani Jantsang©"
<tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:5pj7q3pqdpas9afllch983gl3enofqbrh3@4ax.com...
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> wrote:
Well, that is too bad. But the Senator has many times sworn to uphold the
Constitution, and its stated purpose, among other more generalized
concepts,
was to ensure the "Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity."
The man's sworn duty was to that ethnic character
Where does the constitution mention "ethnic character"? Do you think
that the "ethnic character" of this country since McCain has been in
office is anything like that of 1789? Do you think your posterity
will necessarily be of the same ethnic character as you? Will you be
surprised when your son or daughter marries someone of a different
ethnicity, or adopts someone of a different ethnicity?
Do you want to see Western Civ gone?
Perhaps you should get out of the ghetto bars and into the real world,
barstool commando. I've worked with people of all ethnic groups who
have come here and become part of this culture. If you were to talk to
them on the phone, you couldn't tell where there ancestors originated.
Pull your head out of that toilet you live in and get out in the
world.
.
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| User: "SueDoeCyAnts" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
04 Feb 2008 05:57:19 AM |
|
|
on Fri 01 Feb 2008 02:13:50p
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> posted
in news:XCMoj.9939$EZ3.7759@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:
Well, that is too bad. But the Senator has many times sworn to
uphold the Constitution, and its stated purpose, among other
more generalized concepts, was to ensure the "Blessings of
Liberty to ourselves and our posterity." The man's sworn duty
was to that ethnic character. Live with it.
By the way, despite the inscription that some politician chose
for the Statue of Liberty, most Americans do not huddle around
monuments or in public places. And we do not want to see
America turned into a land of huddlers, replacing the free &
confident men and women, of the type which made us the most
successful people on earth.
That's one *****-backwards way to ascribe specificity.
The US Constitution's preamble, which is where you lifted
'blessing of liberty' from, is completely generalised. It has
nugatory utility as an instructive counsel regarding the
legitimacy in the powers used by each branch of the government in
the performance of its duties.
Artful bit of selectivity there too.
May I also freely pick and choose contexually?
"Promote the General Welfare"
Must of been what FDR was striving for, eh?
You assuredly are a contemporary conservative,
tainted with the moral relativistic antinomian
stench of the New Right which jacked conservatism
away from it proper role in society as a stabilising
rudder for the ship of state within the storms of change.
This malevolent force has suceeded in thoroughly polluting The
Republican Party with its methodologies of targeting hot buttons
wired directly to the hindbrain, whilst in under The Big Three
Ring Circus Tent of Republican Inclusiveness, they engaged in
bestial desecration, pissing on Lincoln's headstone with a
premeditated implementation of the southern strategy, and
sodomisation of conservatism's core by welcoming the Trotskyites
as members into their midsts. Now that this perversion has become
manifest with a Son_Of_A_Bush_Tyrant who led The Nation into an
immoral war only to assuage his deeply repressed Oedipal
concupiscence, and concurrently at the legislature's reigns,
Conservatives Gone Wild depleted the nation's treasury, these
cowardly spewers of hateful religiosity flee shrieking from
acceptance of responsibility for evil's enabling, claiming
they were duped. Seeking sanctuary, along with a new home
for their political debauchery, they loudly profess kinship while
rap tap tapping frantically at libertarianism's entryway door.
Begone back into the foul black bayou serving as Sugarland's sump
which spawned you, or remain where you belong, in the party of
people who actively seek a return to their constitution's original
intent by offering strangers hand-jobs under partition walls, and
soliciting $20 blowjobs inside of The Nation's public toilets.
.
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| User: "Bjorn" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
04 Feb 2008 08:35:52 AM |
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On 04 Feb 2008 11:57:19 GMT, SueDoeCyAnts <pseudocy@labb.port5.com>
wrote:
on Fri 01 Feb 2008 02:13:50p
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> posted
in news:XCMoj.9939$EZ3.7759@nlpi070.nbdc.sbc.com:
Well, that is too bad. But the Senator has many times sworn to
uphold the Constitution, and its stated purpose, among other
more generalized concepts, was to ensure the "Blessings of
Liberty to ourselves and our posterity." The man's sworn duty
was to that ethnic character. Live with it.
By the way, despite the inscription that some politician chose
for the Statue of Liberty, most Americans do not huddle around
monuments or in public places. And we do not want to see
America turned into a land of huddlers, replacing the free &
confident men and women, of the type which made us the most
successful people on earth.
That's one *****-backwards way to ascribe specificity.
The US Constitution's preamble, which is where you lifted
'blessing of liberty' from, is completely generalised. It has
nugatory utility as an instructive counsel regarding the
legitimacy in the powers used by each branch of the government in
the performance of its duties.
Artful bit of selectivity there too.
May I also freely pick and choose contexually?
"Promote the General Welfare"
Must of been what FDR was striving for, eh?
You assuredly are a contemporary conservative,
tainted with the moral relativistic antinomian
stench of the New Right which jacked conservatism
away from it proper role in society as a stabilising
rudder for the ship of state within the storms of change.
This malevolent force has suceeded in thoroughly polluting The
Republican Party with its methodologies of targeting hot buttons
wired directly to the hindbrain, whilst in under The Big Three
Ring Circus Tent of Republican Inclusiveness, they engaged in
bestial desecration, pissing on Lincoln's headstone with a
premeditated implementation of the southern strategy, and
sodomisation of conservatism's core by welcoming the Trotskyites
as members into their midsts. Now that this perversion has become
manifest with a Son_Of_A_Bush_Tyrant who led The Nation into an
immoral war only to assuage his deeply repressed Oedipal
concupiscence, and concurrently at the legislature's reigns,
Conservatives Gone Wild depleted the nation's treasury, these
cowardly spewers of hateful religiosity flee shrieking from
acceptance of responsibility for evil's enabling, claiming
they were duped. Seeking sanctuary, along with a new home
for their political debauchery, they loudly profess kinship while
rap tap tapping frantically at libertarianism's entryway door.
Begone back into the foul black bayou serving as Sugarland's sump
which spawned you, or remain where you belong, in the party of
people who actively seek a return to their constitution's original
intent by offering strangers hand-jobs under partition walls, and
soliciting $20 blowjobs inside of The Nation's public toilets.
Excellent <g>
.
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| User: "Doug" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 04:11:15 PM |
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|
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> wrote in message
news:a8Loj.2197$uE.1871@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net...
All over America, Conservatives are pondering how to stop the apparent
momentum of Senator John McCain in the Republican Primaries. While we
agree
that it is significant that John McCain was in the lowest 1.2% of his
graduation class at the Naval Academy--no "leadership" there;--that it is
significant that he has an explosive and uncontrollable temper, which
makes
him totally unsuitable to have his finger on a nuclear trigger, even if he
were not an advocate of virtually endless war; neither of these facts will
be accepted by enough people in time to stop the McCain momentum. And as
for those who, in my opinion unfairly, question the stories of McCain's
bravery and heroism, forty years ago? That will only backfire. The
issues,
not anything that sounds like a cheap shot, must be our methodology.
No the way to stop McCain is by forcing other Americans to pay attention
to
the failure of McCain on the real issues of the day. And the way to do
that
is to ask questions, everywhere that you can; questions, which bring out
the
core of his foolish stands, questionable policies and ignorance of
political
and economic reality. We need to use whatever access we have to
others--the
broadcast & print medias, the internet, our daily conversations--to ask:
1. Does his work with Teddy Kennedy, who has promoted an immigration
policy
that favors third world peoples over Europeans for over 40 years, indicate
a
bias against ethnic Americans or not? His claim that he has now heard the
message from the American people that they want to secure the border, does
not answer the question, why he was not willing to defend the border
earlier! Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if
so
why? Does he even understand the cultural as well as economic effect of
what has been happening over the past 15 years? The ruined schools,
hospitals, neighborhoods? The soaring crime? Does he agree with his
close
supporter Lyndsey Graham, that those of us who want to preserve the
traditional culture of America, in the face of this influx, are "bigots?"
2. How can Americans protect the value of our money, if McCain would
keeps
us in Iraq, protecting & rebuilding that country, for up to 100 years (his
statement)? Why should Americans be taxed for such purpose--either
directly
or via increasing inflation of our money? Would a pacified Iraq prove
more
successful for America than a for a time pacified Ireland proved for
British
interests? How would our continued occupation of 2% of the Islamic world
persuade people in the other 98%, who resent that occupation, that they
should not support our enemies? Can we possibly afford to take on the
other
98% in endless--in mad and insane--preemptive Wars? Does McCain even
think
about these questions, when he struts around, claiming to be motivated by
"American" interests?
Would it have been an effective way to fight crime in New York City, had
McCain supporter Giuliani, placed most of his Police force on Staten
Island,
and claimed that by suppressing crime in the least Crime infested Borough,
he was somehow fighting Crime in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Manhattan & Queens?
If the idea would have been laughable there; how is it rational in the 2%
of
the Islamic World that we now occupy?
3. McCain brags about calling for the "surge" in Iraq, early, as though
that proves his insight and "leadership." Has anyone, ever, suggested
that
putting more troops in the field against the same number of enemy
combatants, would not improve the purely military results--that is short
of
putting so many into the fray that they get in each other's way? McCain
boasts about the obvious, when the real issue is why we continue to
provide
security & rebuilding in a land that now has its own Government, five
years
after we conquered it? Why do we risk American lives to rebuild the
infra-structure in Iraq, which sits on a sea of salable oil, while
hundreds
of American bridges--as the one that collapsed recently in Minnesota--are
reported to be in danger of collapse? Why do we provide security in Iraq,
when our own borders go largely unprotected? While McCain does not talk
about the economics of stepping up the efforts in Iraq; nor what would
actually follow a pacified Iraq; his policy is manifestly not the sort of
mission the Constitution envisioned.
To make the point, ask where in the Constitution there is one word that
suggests social engineering in other lands? Subsidization of foreign
lands?
Sacrificing American lives for foreign lands? Ask what McCain thinks
would
have been the result had the French fleet, which showed up at Yorktown at
the right moment in 1781, remained in the newly independent America, to
restore stability in communities where up to a third of the population had
openly opposed the Revolution? Would Americans have been freer as a
result
of such foreign involvement in our affairs? Would we have been more
responsible in our actions and attitudes? Is not the very essence of
freedom, in any land, that people chart their own course, in their own
way;
protect their own communities from their own dissidents, without foreign
meddling? (And build their own bridges, with their own resources?)
Looking at the same thing from a slightly different perspective. McCain
squabbles like an eight year old on the playground, over whether one of
his
rivals wanted a time table for withdrawal from Iraq, while avoiding the
real
issues, which all go to the question of what exactly we accomplish if we
continue to stay there?
4. McCain seeks to define the fight against the terrorists as the epic
struggle of the Twenty-first Century. Does not this "drama queen"
foolishness glorify the terrorists among all who do not like us, and
significantly aids in their recruiting efforts? Is not being a
participant
in the defining struggle of the century, something that those who do not
like us, would consider more worth dying for, than simply being an
international thug, anarchist, or something equally reprehensible? To
emphasize how silly this is, ask McCain--or his supporters--how a band of
fanatics, who have no army, navy or airforce; who have sovereign authority
over no land; who have only the ability to recruit criminals and outlaws;
are capable of waging the epic battle he apparently foresees, if we stop
glamorizing them, and simply concentrate on isolating them; and then
mopping
up and destroying them?
5. If McCain is hysterical on his signature issue, how can we trust his
judgment on any major issue? Has he shown any knowledge of economics?
Any
understanding of the relationship between policies that he advocates and
the
decline in the dollar? He talks about reducing spending, but does not
tell
us where we can make a significant difference. Yes, he attacks "pork
barrel" expenditures in America, though not what is nearly a trillion
dollars in Iraq; not foreign aid, in general. But it is not in the "pork"
that the greatest waste takes place. Has he proposed getting the Federal
Government out of education? He claims to have been a Reagan
"foot-soldier"; has he proposed continuing with those parts of the Reagan
agenda that got side-tracked in Congress, which would have reduced such
Federal domestic roles, those never authorized in the Constitution, such
as
the idiotic "no child left behind" policy; or the extraordinarily wasteful
Federal Medicare & Medicaid subsidies, including those going to illegal
aliens, whom he does not want to deport?
Ask questions that bring the real issues into play. Questions that reveal
the intellectual nakedness of the McCain campaign. Ask questions in the
words that you are most comfortable with. And keep asking them, every
chance you get, between now and the coming primaries.
The above suggestions, but scratch the surface!
William Flax
Attorney At Law
Cincinnati, Ohio
P.S. For a real contrast to McCain, take a closer look at Ron Paul:
http://pages.prodigy.net/krtq73aa/decision.htm
Kerry was more of a naval war hero than McInsane ever was -- and all
Kerry gets for it is flak.
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 03:42:19 PM |
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"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> wrote:
All over America, Conservatives are pondering how to stop the apparent
momentum of Senator John McCain in the Republican Primaries.
Well, if Ron Paul dropped out and endorsed Romney, then it might be
good for a couple of percentage points. If Huckabee did, it might be
worth a few more.
1. Does his work with Teddy Kennedy, who has promoted an immigration policy
that favors third world peoples over Europeans for over 40 years, indicate a
bias against ethnic Americans or not?
Actually it would indicate a bias in favor of ethnic Americans. You
know, the ones who were here before the Europeans, and who comprise a
considerable portion of the ancestry of Hispanics.
His claim that he has now heard the
message from the American people that they want to secure the border, does
not answer the question, why he was not willing to defend the border
earlier!
It is indefensible.
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
Does he even understand the cultural as well as economic effect of
what has been happening over the past 15 years? The ruined schools,
hospitals, neighborhoods? The soaring crime? Does he agree with his close
supporter Lyndsey Graham, that those of us who want to preserve the
traditional culture of America, in the face of this influx, are "bigots?"
I do. If you think that "The ruined schools, hospitals,
neighborhoods? The soaring crime?" is due to immigrants, then you are
a bigot.
Especially since the rate of violent crime has dropped sharply in the
last 15 years
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/cv2.htm
and our schools and hospitals are better than ever. Invoking
neighborhoods is a sure sign of bigotry.
2. How can Americans protect the value of our money,
Stop consuming imported goods, especially oil.
Why should Americans be taxed for such purpose--either directly
or via increasing inflation of our money?
Because we reelected Bush after he took us to war, showing that we
deserve the collective punishment of paying for that war, so that our
kids don't have to.
Why do we risk American lives to rebuild the
infra-structure in Iraq, which sits on a sea of salable oil,
Probably because we want to get that oil eventually.
(And build their own bridges, with their own resources?)
We destroyed those bridges.
4. McCain seeks to define the fight against the terrorists as the epic
struggle of the Twenty-first Century. Does not this "drama queen"
foolishness glorify the terrorists among all who do not like us, and
significantly aids in their recruiting efforts?
Not necessarily. Does a war on crime lead to the recruitment of
criminals?
To
emphasize how silly this is, ask McCain--or his supporters--how a band of
fanatics, who have no army, navy or airforce; who have sovereign authority
over no land; who have only the ability to recruit criminals and outlaws;
are capable of waging the epic battle he apparently foresees,
As surrogates of Iran and other countries who would love to bring us
down but cannot actually fight a war against us.
if we stop glamorizing them, and simply concentrate on isolating them;
We can't isolate them.
(note that I do not in fact support the war - but I find your
arguments to be silly. I support a pullout because we can't afford
the war, because we aren't willing to tax ourselves enough to pay for
it. This country endured hardships to win the wars that it has won.
We've never been sufficiently committed to this one to endure any
sacrifice except from young people willing to do what their commander
in chief tells them to do)
5. If McCain is hysterical on his signature issue,
I've noticed no sign that McCain is hysterical about anything.
how can we trust his judgment on any major issue?
Track record, which is better than that of many others on the issues
Americans really care about
P.S. For a real contrast to McCain, take a closer look at Ron Paul:
http://pages.prodigy.net/krtq73aa/decision.htm
Ron Paul takes votes away from other that might have a chance to
actually win. I have voted for candidates who stood no chance to win
on a matter of principle, but only because I though all of the
plausible winners to be equally bad.
lojbab
.
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| User: "Doug" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
01 Feb 2008 08:39:06 PM |
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"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:dv27q3dsrrqj7oqsq4s7c8937cbo0dcue0@4ax.com...
"William Flax" <krtq73aa@prodigy.net> wrote:
All over America, Conservatives are pondering how to stop the apparent
momentum of Senator John McCain in the Republican Primaries.
Well, if Ron Paul dropped out and endorsed Romney, then it might be
good for a couple of percentage points. If Huckabee did, it might be
worth a few more.
1. Does his work with Teddy Kennedy, who has promoted an immigration
policy
that favors third world peoples over Europeans for over 40 years, indicate
a
bias against ethnic Americans or not?
Actually it would indicate a bias in favor of ethnic Americans. You
know, the ones who were here before the Europeans, and who comprise a
considerable portion of the ancestry of Hispanics.
His claim that he has now heard the
message from the American people that they want to secure the border, does
not answer the question, why he was not willing to defend the border
earlier!
It is indefensible.
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire* country?
What an idiot.
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 12:02:42 AM |
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"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire* country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to
that policy, written at the time when immigration was building this
country into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
lojbab
.
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| User: "Doug" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 02:11:22 AM |
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"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to
that policy, written at the time when immigration was building this
country into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
lojbab
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 10:15:42 AM |
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"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to
that policy, written at the time when immigration was building this
country into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
The guy I was responding to pretends to be a "conservative", who
values old principles, and the ideas of the Founders. The Founders
did not seek to restrict immigration at all.
If you insist on updating some principles to the 20th century merely
because you no longer own slaves nor drive to work in a buggy, then
you open the door to updating the interpretations of ALL aspects of
the founding documents. which is not a typically "conservative"
sentiment.
Of course I see no especial reason why the sentiments of that poem of
the statue no longer apply, merely because I don't ride a buggy.
lojbab
.
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| User: "RadicalModerate" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
03 Feb 2008 03:06:47 PM |
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In alt.politics.immigration Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
The guy I was responding to pretends to be a "conservative", who
values old principles, and the ideas of the Founders. The Founders
did not seek to restrict immigration at all.
The Framers of the US Constitution had a country which had very few
people; the first US Census of 1790 shows fewer than 4 million people in
the USA; 218 years later we have 300 million.
Some US Census data (courtesy http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h986.html )
(non-proportional(fixed) font required for proper viewing on Usenet)
Sq.Mi. Persons
Year Population Land Area per sq.mi.
==================================================
1790 3,929,214 864,745 4.5
1800 5,308,483 864,746 6.1
1810 7,239,881 1,681,828 4.3
1820 9,638,453 1,749,462 5.5
1830 12,860,702 1,749,462 7.4
1840 17,063,353 1,749,462 9.8
1850 23,191,876 2,940,042 7.9
1860 31,443,321 2,969,640 10.6
1870 38,558,371 3,540,705 10.9
1880 50,189,209 3,540,705 14.2
1890 62,979,766 3,540,705 17.8
1900 76,212,168 3,547,314 21.5
1910 92,228,496 3,547,045 26.0
1920 106,021,537 3,546,931 29.9
1930 123,202,624 3,551,608 34.7 Immigration restricted
1940 132,164,569 3,554,608 37.2
1950 151,325,798 3,552,206 42.6 INS Act 1952
1960 179,323,175 3,540,911 50.6 Immigration increased 1965
1970 203,302,031 3,536,855 57.5
1980 226,542,199 3,539,289 64.0 Simpson-Mazzoli 1986
1990 248,709,873 3,536,338 70.3
2000 281,421,906 3,537,438 79.6
--
The published From: address is a trap.
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
03 Feb 2008 08:34:14 PM |
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(RadicalModerate) wrote:
In alt.politics.immigration Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
The guy I was responding to pretends to be a "conservative", who
values old principles, and the ideas of the Founders. The Founders
did not seek to restrict immigration at all.
The Framers of the US Constitution had a country which had very few
people;
It was also 99% agricultural. Those cities that existed were almost
certainly more crowded than the cities of today, even without
high-rises.
Manhattan population density is actually LOWER than it was in 1900.
http://www.demographia.com/dm-nyc.htm
The city of Boston has a lower total population than in 1910 and 1920
http://www.demographia.com/db-bos1790.htm
St Louis has 25% fewer people that it had in 1890, but since it has a
larger area, the population density is half of what it was then:
http://www.demographia.com/db-histuza.htm
http://www.ewgateway.org/DataCenter/STLRegData/Pop/PopDensity-Trends/popdensity-trends.htm
And compared to most of the world, even developed nations, we are
sparsely populated, 179th in the world, and only 3/4 of the average
world population density. Most of western Europe has 5-10 times the
population density of the US.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_population_density
< 1900 76,212,168 3,547,314 21.5
< 1910 92,228,496 3,547,045 26.0
< 1920 106,021,537 3,546,931 29.9
< 1930 123,202,624 3,551,608 34.7 Immigration restricted
< 1940 132,164,569 3,554,608 37.2
< 1950 151,325,798 3,552,206 42.6 INS Act 1952
< 1960 179,323,175 3,540,911 50.6 Immigration increased 1965
< 1970 203,302,031 3,536,855 57.5
< 1980 226,542,199 3,539,289 64.0 Simpson-Mazzoli 1986
< 1990 248,709,873 3,536,338 70.3
< 2000 281,421,906 3,537,438 79.6
Population density grew by about 50% from 1900 to 1930, the time of
greatest immigration. It grew by 50% from 1930 to 1960, when
immigration was tightly controlled. It grew by only 40% during the
last 30 years. Thus it is safe to say that population density is
relatively independent of immigration.
Not that population density should be an argument. If it was, the
Amerinds should have been able to tell us to go back to Europe.
In any event, immigration control cannot be argued as a "conservative"
policy, favored by the Founders.
lojbab
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| User: "Bjorn" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 10:40:07 AM |
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On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:15:42 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
<lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to
that policy, written at the time when immigration was building this
country into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
The guy I was responding to pretends to be a "conservative", who
values old principles, and the ideas of the Founders. The Founders
did not seek to restrict immigration at all.
You have a habit of calmly and thoughtfully saying things that aren't
at all true. Is this the new American Education Establishment, in
which inernet aholes make up what they believe, and if they do it with
the aforsaid calm & thoughtfullness, they get a diploma sent to them?
If you insist on updating some principles to the 20th century merely
because you no longer own slaves nor drive to work in a buggy, then
you open the door to updating the interpretations of ALL aspects of
the founding documents. which is not a typically "conservative"
sentiment.
Of course I see no especial reason why the sentiments of that poem of
the statue no longer apply, merely because I don't ride a buggy.
lojbab
.
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 02:17:16 PM |
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Bjorn <was-walmart-greeter@postamerica.net> wrote:
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 11:15:42 -0500, Bob LeChevalier
<lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to
that policy, written at the time when immigration was building this
country into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
The guy I was responding to pretends to be a "conservative", who
values old principles, and the ideas of the Founders. The Founders
did not seek to restrict immigration at all.
You have a habit of calmly and thoughtfully saying things that aren't
at all true.
What did I say that wasn't true? Mr Flax has been pounding the
"Conservative" theme in favor of his preferred candidate for several
weeks. He has defined "Conservatism" in a way that includes what I
suggested. IT is also true that the Founders did not seek to restrict
immigration, other than via the slave trade.
If you have counterevidence, feel free to post it.
Is this the new American Education Establishment,
What does Usenet have to do with the "American Education
Establishment", new or otherwise? There are some posters from
academia on Usenet, but they are a minority.
in which inernet aholes make up what they believe,
That is the norm.
and if they do it with the aforsaid calm & thoughtfullness, they get a diploma sent to them?
I dunno. I never have heard of anyone getting a diploma for posting
anything on Usenet. Have you?
There are some teachers who require a posting to Usenet as a classroom
assignment in using the Internet, but it is a relatively minor
assignment and isn't nearly enough to get them a diploma.
lojbab
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 02:34:28 AM |
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On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:11:22 -0800, Doug wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to that
policy, written at the time when immigration was building this country
into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
lojbab
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
Why be a *****? The very concept of America is to welcome immigrants.
Denying our roots doesn't argue for changing our national character.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Osama didn't win, Bush lost. Strike that, Osama didn't win, _we_ lost.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Tani Jantsang©" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 09:50:09 AM |
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"Curly Surmudgeon" <Curly.is.not@home.com> wrote in message
news:47a42b72$0$22438$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:11:22 -0800, Doug wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to that
policy, written at the time when immigration was building this country
into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
lojbab
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
Why be a *****? The very concept of America is to welcome immigrants.
Denying our roots doesn't argue for changing our national character.
The immigration in the past was from Europe, primarily. Keep inviting 3rd
world people in and yuou will WITNESS the destruction of the national
character when they become the majority. Guaranteed.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Osama didn't win, Bush lost. Strike that, Osama didn't win, _we_ lost.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Bob LeChevalier" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 10:47:07 AM |
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"Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> wrote:
The immigration in the past was from Europe, primarily.
Why would that be of the least importance, except to a racist? "All
men are created equal" is the sentiment of the founders. One cannot
presume that there is anything superior about European-ness without
being unAmerican.
Keep inviting 3rd
world people in and yuou will WITNESS the destruction of the national
character when they become the majority. Guaranteed.
The same argument was used regarding accepting Irish Catholics,
southern Europeans, and eastern Europeans and Jews, and regarding
Asians (which of course were the first immigrant group that was
restricted, unless you consider the slave trade ban to be an
immigration measure.
Every minority that has immigrated has been either 3rd world, or the
unwanted scum of a European country who were living at 3rd world
levels and who in many cases had 3rd world education levels. None of
them have destroyed the national character. Nor have the blacks, who
were mostly here before 1789 but were definitely from 3rd world
cultures, "destroyed the national character", since they've been here
since before we HAD a national character.
lojbab
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
04 Feb 2008 10:34:29 AM |
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In article <13q94nfdurk6j8b@corp.supernews.com> "Tani Jantsang©" <tjsrno@spampost.com> writes:
a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.com>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3138
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3198
X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
X-Complaints-To:
Lines: 41
Xref: news.arizona.edu alt.education:102972 alt.politics.immigration:317635 alt.politics.libertarian:113221
"Curly Surmudgeon" <Curly.is.not@home.com> wrote in message
news:47a42b72$0$22438$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:11:22 -0800, Doug wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to that
policy, written at the time when immigration was building this country
into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
lojbab
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
Why be a *****? The very concept of America is to welcome immigrants.
Denying our roots doesn't argue for changing our national character.
The immigration in the past was from Europe, primarily. Keep inviting 3rd
world people in and yuou will WITNESS the destruction of the national
character when they become the majority. Guaranteed.
And what, precisely, is our "national character"? Specifics, if you
will be so kind:
-- cary
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| User: "Curly Surmudgeon" |
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| Title: Re: To Stop McCain. |
02 Feb 2008 01:16:03 PM |
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On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 10:50:09 -0500, Tani Jantsang© wrote:
"Curly Surmudgeon" <Curly.is.not@home.com> wrote in message
news:47a42b72$0$22438$a82e2bb9@reader.athenanews.com...
On Sat, 02 Feb 2008 00:11:22 -0800, Doug wrote:
"Bob LeChevalier" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote in message
news:cp18q35p6hme71g4q8rjgb1f5r1h7ehr7q@4ax.com...
"Doug" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
Does he want to change the ethnic character of America, and if so
why?
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses, yearning to
breathe free. I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
One line from a poem determines immigration policy for an *entire*
country?
What an idiot.
It doesn't determine anything. It explains the thought that led to
that policy, written at the time when immigration was building this
country into the richest and eventually most powerful in the world.
lojbab
Duh, do you still live in the 19th century? Still driving the horse and
buggy to work everyday?
Why be a *****? The very concept of America is to welcome immigrants.
Denying our roots doesn't argue for changing our national character.
The immigration in the past was from Europe, primarily. Keep inviting 3rd
world people in and yuou will WITNESS the destruction of the national
character when they become the majority. Guaranteed.
You speak of Europeans as though they were uniformly First World however
that is not so. Irish, Italian, Polish, and Eastern Europe are/were just
as primitive as many in Latin America.
Diversity was our lifeblood, it renewed the challanges facing mankind.
-- Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Osama didn't win, Bush lost. Strike that, Osama didn't win, _we_ lost.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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