| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"ChasNemo" |
| Date: |
28 Nov 2006 06:45:54 PM |
| Object: |
=======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003438845
UPDATED: Media Starting to Describe Iraq Conflict as 'Civil War'
By Anna Crane - November 27, 2006
NEW YORK For months, the media have been torn over use of the term
"civil war" to describe the descent into outright murder and torture in
Iraq. Apparently the utter chaos and carnage of the past week has
finally convinced some to use "civil war" without apology -- with NBC
News and MSNBC joining in today in a major way -- but many still hold
back, an E&P survey today shows.
The Los Angeles Times was one of the first newspapers to flatly
describe the conflict as a "civil war" -- without the usual qualifiers
of "approaching" or "near" -- and did again in the first paragraph of a
news report on Saturday. The Christian Science Monitor today refers to
a "deepening civil war."
But the main Washington Post story today continued to use "sectarian
strife." A widely-published Reuters dispatch today adopted "sectarian
conflict" and McClatchy in a report from Baghdad relied on "sectarian
violence." Other papers declared that Iraq is on the verge of civil
war, but has not gotten there yet, with an Associated Press story
calling Iraqi President Jalal Talabani's visit to Iran an effort to
prevent "Iraq's sectarian violence from sliding into an all-out civil
war."
In a bombshell, however, Matt Lauer on the Today show this morning
revealed that NBC had studied and perhaps debated the issue anew, and
then decided that it will now use "civil war" freely. "For months the
White House rejected claims that the situation in Iraq has deteriorated
into civil war," he said. "For the most part news organizations like
NBC hesitated to characterize it as such. After careful consideration,
NBC News has decided the change in terminology is warranted and what is
going on in Iraq can now be characterized as civil war."
He explained: "We should mention we didn't just wake up on a Monday
morning and say let's call this a civil war.' This took careful
deliberation. We consulted with a lot of people." One of them was
retired Gen. Barry McCaffery a longtime NBC consultant, who told Lauer
he had been using the expression "civil war" for quite some time, with
the qualifier "low grade."
Lauer added: "The White House objects to the terminology that NBC News
is now using, and here is part of the statement that they've released:
'While the situation on the ground is very serious, neither Prime
Minister Maliki nor we believe that Iraq is in a civil war.' It goes on
to say that 'the violence is largely centered around Baghdad, and
Baghdad security and the increased training of Iraqi security forces is
at the top of the agenda when President Bush and Prime Minister Maliki
meet later this week in Jordan.'"
Asked about the civil war tag, CNN's Michael Ware said on Friday from
Baghdad: "Well, firstly, let me say, perhaps it's easier to deny that
this is a civil war, when essentially you live in the most heavily
fortified place in the country within the Green Zone, which is true of
both the prime minister, the national security adviser for Iraq and, of
course, the top U.S. military commanders. However, for the people
living on the streets, for Iraqis in their homes, if this is not civil
war, or a form of it, then they do not want to see what one really
looks like."
In his column in this week's Newsweek, Fareed Zakaria pulls no punches:
"We're in the middle of a civil war and are being shot at by both
sides. There can be no more doubt that Iraq is in a civil war, in which
leaders of both its main communities, Sunnis and Shiites, are fomenting
violence."
The Los Angeles Times story by Solomon Moore had opened: "Iraq's civil
war worsened Friday as Shiite and Sunni Arabs engaged in retaliatory
attacks after coordinated car bombings that killed more than 200 people
in a Shiite neighborhood the day before. A main Shiite political
faction threatened to quit the government, a move that probably would
cause its collapse and plunge the nation deeper into disarray."
The Los Angeles Times since October has been calling it a civil war,
Marjorie Miller, the newspaper's foreign editor, told the Associated
Press today. "It's a very simple calculation," she said. "It's a
country that's tearing itself apart, one group against another group or
several groups against several groups. What country even admits that it
is in the midst of a civil war?"
Editors at The Associated Press have discussed the issue and haven't
reached a definitive stance, said John Daniszewski, international
editor. Most often, the conflict is called "the war in Iraq" or
identified with descriptive terms such as sectarian fighting,
anti-government attacks or ethnic clashes, he said.
He pointed to the different definitions experts have for civil wars.
"From a historical point of view, not every civil war is called by that
name, and wars by their very nature are not always neatly categorized,"
he said, in an AP report. "For instance, the American Revolutionary
War, the Vietnam War and the more recent wars in Bosnia and Kosovo were
all civil wars according to the broader definition, yet we do not
normally think or speak of them that way."
Officials at both ABC News and CBS News said that they discuss the
situation all the time, but that there's no network policy to use the
term civil war, AP added. "We are not there yet," said Paul Slavin, ABC
News senior vice president, noting differing definitions.
But MSNBC's Contessa Brewer said this morning on the air: "Now, the
battle between Shiites and Sunnis has created a civil war in Iraq.
Beginning this morning, MSNBC will refer to the fighting in Iraq as a
civil war - a phrase the White House continues to resist. But after
careful thought, MSNBC and NBC News decided over the weekend, the
terminology is appropriate, as armed militarized factions fight for
their own political agendas. We'll have a lots more on the situation
in Iraq and the decision to use the phrase, civil war."
On Sunday, The New York Times reported that some scholars are calling
the Iraq conflict a "civil war. " A civil war, it explained, is
commonly defined by two criteria: two warring groups fighting for
control over political power, and at least 1,000 deaths with at least
100 from each side. Criteria that Iraq meets, easily.
.
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| User: "zzpat" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 10:20:15 AM |
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ChasNemo wrote:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003438845
UPDATED: Media Starting to Describe Iraq Conflict as 'Civil War'
By Anna Crane - November 27, 2006
NEW YORK For months, the media have been torn over use of the term
"civil war" to describe the descent into outright murder and torture in
Iraq. Apparently the utter chaos and carnage of the past week has
finally convinced some to use "civil war" without apology -- with NBC
News and MSNBC joining in today in a major way -- but many still hold
back, an E&P survey today shows.
As a percentage of their population the civil war in Iraq has already
claimed more lives than our Civil War. Surely nO one can say we didn't
have a civil war, ergo, Iraq has a civil war. Good grief. We have a
White House in denial.
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| User: "Fred Oinka" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
28 Nov 2006 07:02:01 PM |
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ChasNemo wrote:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003438845
UPDATED: Media Starting to Describe Iraq Conflict as 'Civil War'
By Anna Crane - November 27, 2006
NEW YORK For months, the media have been torn over use of the term
"civil war" to describe the descent into outright murder and torture in
Iraq. Apparently the utter chaos and carnage of the past week has
finally convinced some to use "civil war" without apology -- with NBC
News and MSNBC joining in today in a major way -- but many still hold
back, an E&P survey today shows.
The Los Angeles Times was one of the first newspapers to flatly
describe the conflict as a "civil war" -- without the usual qualifiers
of "approaching" or "near" -- and did again in the first paragraph of a
news report on Saturday. The Christian Science Monitor today refers to
a "deepening civil war."
But the main Washington Post story today continued to use "sectarian
strife." A widely-published Reuters dispatch today adopted "sectarian
conflict" and McClatchy in a report from Baghdad relied on "sectarian
violence." Other papers declared that Iraq is on the verge of civil
war, but has not gotten there yet, with an Associated Press story
calling Iraqi President Jalal Talabani's visit to Iran an effort to
prevent "Iraq's sectarian violence from sliding into an all-out civil
war."
In a bombshell, however, Matt Lauer on the Today show this morning
revealed that NBC had studied and perhaps debated the issue anew, and
then decided that it will now use "civil war" freely. "For months the
White House rejected claims that the situation in Iraq has deteriorated
into civil war," he said. "For the most part news organizations like
NBC hesitated to characterize it as such. After careful consideration,
NBC News has decided the change in terminology is warranted and what is
going on in Iraq can now be characterized as civil war."
He explained: "We should mention we didn't just wake up on a Monday
morning and say let's call this a civil war.' This took careful
deliberation. We consulted with a lot of people." One of them was
retired Gen. Barry McCaffery a longtime NBC consultant, who told Lauer
he had been using the expression "civil war" for quite some time, with
the qualifier "low grade."
Lauer added: "The White House objects to the terminology that NBC News
is now using, and here is part of the statement that they've released:
'While the situation on the ground is very serious, neither Prime
Minister Maliki nor we believe that Iraq is in a civil war.' It goes on
to say that 'the violence is largely centered around Baghdad, and
Baghdad security and the increased training of Iraqi security forces is
at the top of the agenda when President Bush and Prime Minister Maliki
meet later this week in Jordan.'"
Asked about the civil war tag, CNN's Michael Ware said on Friday from
Baghdad: "Well, firstly, let me say, perhaps it's easier to deny that
this is a civil war, when essentially you live in the most heavily
fortified place in the country within the Green Zone, which is true of
both the prime minister, the national security adviser for Iraq and, of
course, the top U.S. military commanders. However, for the people
living on the streets, for Iraqis in their homes, if this is not civil
war, or a form of it, then they do not want to see what one really
looks like."
In his column in this week's Newsweek, Fareed Zakaria pulls no punches:
"We're in the middle of a civil war and are being shot at by both
sides. There can be no more doubt that Iraq is in a civil war, in which
leaders of both its main communities, Sunnis and Shiites, are fomenting
violence."
The Los Angeles Times story by Solomon Moore had opened: "Iraq's civil
war worsened Friday as Shiite and Sunni Arabs engaged in retaliatory
attacks after coordinated car bombings that killed more than 200 people
in a Shiite neighborhood the day before. A main Shiite political
faction threatened to quit the government, a move that probably would
cause its collapse and plunge the nation deeper into disarray."
The Los Angeles Times since October has been calling it a civil war,
Marjorie Miller, the newspaper's foreign editor, told the Associated
Press today. "It's a very simple calculation," she said. "It's a
country that's tearing itself apart, one group against another group or
several groups against several groups. What country even admits that it
is in the midst of a civil war?"
Editors at The Associated Press have discussed the issue and haven't
reached a definitive stance, said John Daniszewski, international
editor. Most often, the conflict is called "the war in Iraq" or
identified with descriptive terms such as sectarian fighting,
anti-government attacks or ethnic clashes, he said.
He pointed to the different definitions experts have for civil wars.
"From a historical point of view, not every civil war is called by that
name, and wars by their very nature are not always neatly categorized,"
he said, in an AP report. "For instance, the American Revolutionary
War, the Vietnam War and the more recent wars in Bosnia and Kosovo were
all civil wars according to the broader definition, yet we do not
normally think or speak of them that way."
Officials at both ABC News and CBS News said that they discuss the
situation all the time, but that there's no network policy to use the
term civil war, AP added. "We are not there yet," said Paul Slavin, ABC
News senior vice president, noting differing definitions.
But MSNBC's Contessa Brewer said this morning on the air: "Now, the
battle between Shiites and Sunnis has created a civil war in Iraq.
Beginning this morning, MSNBC will refer to the fighting in Iraq as a
civil war - a phrase the White House continues to resist. But after
careful thought, MSNBC and NBC News decided over the weekend, the
terminology is appropriate, as armed militarized factions fight for
their own political agendas. We'll have a lots more on the situation
in Iraq and the decision to use the phrase, civil war."
On Sunday, The New York Times reported that some scholars are calling
the Iraq conflict a "civil war. " A civil war, it explained, is
commonly defined by two criteria: two warring groups fighting for
control over political power, and at least 1,000 deaths with at least
100 from each side. Criteria that Iraq meets, easily.
Admitting there is a civil war would be like admitting defeat. The
pro-quagmire bunch sees the world in black and white terms. They can't
imagine any problem that can't be solved by blowing something up and
killing someone elses kids.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
28 Nov 2006 08:30:14 PM |
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Fred Oinka wrote:
Admitting there is a civil war would be like admitting defeat. The
pro-quagmire bunch sees the world in black and white terms. They can't
imagine any problem that can't be solved by blowing something up and
killing someone elses kids.
If there is indeed civil war in Iraq, it was coming anyway. And that's
good news. If sandniggers are preoccupied with killing one another
maybe they'll forget about killing Western civilians for a while.
So, um, does this mean Liberal fucktards DO or DO NOT trust the MSM?
It's starting to look like the MSM always lies, except when they say
something you want to hear, in which case they must be telling the
truth.
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| User: "smutmonger" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
28 Nov 2006 09:18:44 PM |
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wrote:
Fred Oinka wrote:
Admitting there is a civil war would be like admitting defeat. The
pro-quagmire bunch sees the world in black and white terms. They can't
imagine any problem that can't be solved by blowing something up and
killing someone elses kids.
If there is indeed civil war in Iraq, it was coming anyway. And that's
good news. If sandniggers are preoccupied with killing one another
maybe they'll forget about killing Western civilians for a while.
So, um, does this mean Liberal fucktards DO or DO NOT trust the MSM?
It's starting to look like the MSM always lies, except when they say
something you want to hear, in which case they must be telling the
truth.
Fox News can hardly be called mainstream. I don't hear liberals
complaining about CBS.
The wingnuts on the other hand, seem to think all the other network
outlets are in league with Al-Qaeda.
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| User: "Tim Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 02:54:32 PM |
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wrote:
sandniggers
Why are so many racists also cowards? Why do you have to hide? If you
are so sure you are right and you are proud of your views why not just
be a man and post with your name?
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| User: "Billary/2008" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 09:03:17 AM |
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I'm with you. Let the fucking Iraqis kill each other off. We don't need to
be in the middle of it.
<l_muqtadir@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1164767414.051981.184640@l12g2000cwl.googlegroups.com...
If there is indeed civil war in Iraq, it was coming anyway. And that's
good news. If sandniggers are preoccupied with killing one another
maybe they'll forget about killing Western civilians for a while.
.
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| User: "Joseph Welch" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 12:10:06 PM |
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"Billary/2008" <F#%K_Liberals@vastrightwingconspiracy.gov> wrote in message
news:Vihbh.24042$oP6.19263@trnddc03...
I'm with you. Let the fucking Iraqis kill each other off. We don't need
to be in the middle of it.
Then why have you been applauding us being "in the middle of it" for the
last 3 years?
--
____________________
George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
Supporting Bush is treason.
_____________________
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
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| User: "Billary/2008" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 12:27:43 PM |
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I haven't. Provide proof *****.
"Joseph Welch" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:92kbh.14073
Then why have you been applauding us being "in the middle of it" for the
last 3 years?
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| User: "Joseph Welch" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 04:18:27 PM |
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"Billary/2008" <F#%K_Liberals@vastrightwingconspiracy.gov> wrote in message
news:zikbh.13977$9e.4113@trnddc02...
I haven't. Provide proof *****.
Just because you're too dishonest and chickenshit to allow archiving of your
posts doesn't mean you aren't quoted in replies by others, you stupid lying
*****.
http://tinyurl.com/ylmyo3
--
____________________
George W. Bush has made the terrorists stronger, their influence wider,
their numbers larger, and their motivation to attack the U.S. and other
western interests greater. He has repeatedly abused his authority and
violated his Oath of Office by turning his back on the United States
Constitution; thereby surrendering to the terrorists by undermining American
freedoms,values, and the very foundations of our system of government.
Supporting Bush is treason.
_____________________
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.
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| User: "Bob" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 04:29:28 PM |
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"Joseph Welch" <seattledemocracy@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:VGnbh.7517$8i2.3626@fe05.buzzardnews.com...
"Billary/2008" <F#%K_Liberals@vastrightwingconspiracy.gov> wrote in
message news:zikbh.13977$9e.4113@trnddc02...
I haven't. Provide proof *****.
Just because you're too dishonest and chickenshit to allow archiving of
your posts doesn't mean you aren't quoted in replies by others, you stupid
lying *****.
http://tinyurl.com/ylmyo3
This from someone who blasts someone
else; has his error pointed out, but will
not admit the error nor apologize.
.
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| User: "Adam Whyte-Settlar" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 10:05:12 AM |
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"Billary/2008" <F#%K_Liberals@vastrightwingconspiracy.gov> wrote in message
news:Vihbh.24042$oP6.19263@trnddc03...
I'm with you. Let the fucking Iraqis kill each other off. We don't need
to be in the middle of it.
You didnt need to be there in the first place - as you were told by the
Europeans.
So now you've sparked a civil war you run away crying.
Reminds me of when the Vietcong kicked your arse.
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| User: "Tim Crowley" |
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| Title: Re: =======> MOST MEDIA ADMIT CIVIL WAR! RIGHTARDS STILL IN DENIAL! <======= |
29 Nov 2006 02:47:33 PM |
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ChasNemo wrote:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003438845
UPDATED: Media Starting to Describe Iraq Conflict as 'Civil War'
Finally. It's been a Civil War for a looooong time now. I would say it
started the day President Bush claimed "mission accomplished" (i think
Bush will go down in history as the most dishonest President ever)
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