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"Dos peligros tiene la idea socialista, como tantas otras: el de las=20
lecturas extranjerizas, confusas e incompletas y el de la soberbia y la=20
rabia disimulada de los ambiciosos de poder, que para ir levantandose en =
el mundo empiezan por fingirse, para tener hombros en que alzarse,=20
freneticos defensores de los desamparados"
=
JOSE MARTI PEREZ=20
Alan Woods with Adan Chavez
"For the Bolivarian Revolution there is no "third way" possible, we must =
choose socialism"
(Adan Chavez)
On Monday April 18th, Adan Chavez, a leader of the Bolivarian movement, =
elder brother of the President and currently Venezuelan Ambassador in =
Cuba, invited me to have breakfast with him in La Casona, the =
traditional residence of Venezuelan presidents. I took the chance to =
conduct a brief interview with him.
=20
Adan Chavez and Alan Woods=20
Alan Woods: Could you tell us something about your family? I understand =
you come from a humble family.
Adan Chavez: That's correct, I am from Barinas state, which is in Los =
Llanos (the plains), in the Western part of Venezuela. It is an =
agricultural region, mainly cattle rearing. Dad and Mum were =
schoolteachers, but they are now retired. Since 1998 my father has been =
a state governor. We were six brothers, and I was the eldest.
AW: How did you become involved in politics?
ACh: When I was 16 I joined the Revolutionary Left Movement (MIR), a =
Marxist-Leninist organisation which had links with the Chilean MIR. =
There I started my political and revolutionary education. But after =
three years this party started to degenerate, becoming a revisionist =
party which even split into two fractions: one which continued to call =
itself the MIR and another called New Alternative. I decided not to join =
either of the two groups. I did not agree with revisionism and I was of =
the opinion that we needed to build a genuine revolutionary party in =
contact with the masses.
AW: What did you do then?
ACh: We were a group of youngsters, doing work in the university. We =
spent more or less a year and a half like that, until we joined another =
party, the Party of the Venezuelan Revolution (PRV). This party was =
working underground and was led by commander Douglas Bravo, the famous =
guerrilla. We conducted urban guerrilla work. But because of its =
clandestine character this party did not have contact with the masses. =
Furthermore they were very dogmatic and sectarian. Like the MIR, it =
split and ended up disappearing. In order to achieve a revolutionary =
popular movement, which would allow the taking of power, one had to have =
a strong influence within the popular masses and have support within the =
Armed Forces.
It was at that time that my brother Hugo was serving in the National =
Armed Forces as a young officer. A small group of officers who were =
unhappy about the situation in the country and who thought that =
something had to be done to change it was set up. These were progressive =
and patriotic army men. I informed the leadership of the party of the =
existence of my brother. In this way contacts were established between =
the two sides. Hugo Chavez also had other contacts with other left =
groups. Though finally the PRV disappeared, one must give it credit for =
this. Once again I was left with no concrete membership, but we kept in =
touch with the patriotic officers giving them any support we could. A =
civilian-military movement was consolidated, the Bolivarian =
Revolutionary Movement 200 (MBR-200). They were reading, discussing and =
finally decided that they had to rescue the revolutionary ideas of Simon =
Bolivar, Simon Rodriguez and Ezequiel Zamora.
AW: But you are Marxist?
ACh: Of course.
AW: So, how do you see the role of Marxism in the Bolivarian revolution?
ACh: In the same way that we have reclaimed the ideas of Bolivar, =
Rodriguez and Zamora, I think that we must reclaim the genuine ideas of =
Marxism, applying them correctly to our society. The scientific method =
of Marxism is a necessity. We are a movement based on the "principles of =
the tree of the three roots": Simon Bolivar, Simon Rodriguez and =
Ezequiel Zamora. But if you read these principles you will soon =
understand that they are not at all in contradiction with Marxism, they =
defend the principles of democracy, equality and humanity.
=20
AW: And these principles, can they be carried out under the capitalist =
system?
ACh: I personally think they cannot. And President Chavez has said in =
the last few months that capitalism is slavery and that the Bolivarian =
revolution must go towards socialism. This conclusion is not by chance. =
It is the product of many discussions, many experiences and an in-depth =
analysis of the situation. The President used to consider the option of =
the so-called "Third Way" - a way between capitalism and socialism. We =
examined that and, as the President said, we have realised that for the =
Bolivarian revolution there is no third way possible, we must choose the =
way of socialism. This does not mean we are going to import other models =
from outside. Socialism is a system in which man is above Capital. That =
is clear. But we must adapt the ideas of socialism to the concrete =
conditions.
AW: I believe you are reading my book "Reason in Revolt". Can you give =
me your opinion on it? You can speak with complete sincerity!
ACh: I think it is an excellent book. I have not finished it yet, but my =
impression is that it is a rigorous Marxist analysis of philosophy =
applied to nature. I am a physicist, and this seems extraordinarily =
interesting to me. I am interested above all in what you write about the =
origins of the universe - a subject I have always been passionate about, =
and which unfortunately I have abandoned.
AW: The Cuban edition of "Reason in Revolt" is just being prepared. I =
hope you will help me launch it.
ACh: That would be a great honour and a pleasure.
AW: You know that we have organised a campaign in solidarity with the =
revolution called "Hands off Venezuela", which is now active in more =
than 30 countries all over the world. What do you think of this?
ACh: I think it is a very important initiative. I see that you are =
fighting to counter the media campaign of lies against the Bolivarian =
revolution. I think that the "Hands Off" campaign, apart from =
solidarity, is also an attempt to integrate the different peoples of the =
world, and that deserves a lot of support.
AW: Finally, do you have any message for the supporters of "Hands Off =
Venezuela"?
ACh: First of all, I recognise the invaluable work of the "Hands Off =
Venezuela" campaign. I appeal to you to go forward, be sure that this =
work will give important fruits in the end. My message is one of =
optimism and hope, fighting all united for the same cause.
April 18, 2005
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<BODY>
<DIV>
<H1 align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2><U>--=20
</U></FONT></H1>
<H1 align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" color=3D#000080 =
size=3D2><U>"Dos peligros=20
tiene la idea socialista, como tantas otras: el de las <BR>lecturas=20
extranjerizas, confusas e incompletas <FONT color=3D#ff0000>y el de la =
soberbia y=20
la <BR>rabia disimulada de los ambiciosos de poder</FONT>, que para ir=20
levantandose en <BR>el mundo empiezan por fingirse, para tener hombros =
en que=20
alzarse, <BR>freneticos defensores de los=20
desamparados"<BR> &n=
bsp; &nb=
sp; &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=
JOSE MARTI PEREZ <BR></U></FONT></H1>
<H1 align=3Dcenter><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2> Alan Woods =
with Adan=20
Chavez</FONT></H1>
<P align=3Dright><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>=93For the =
Bolivarian Revolution=20
there is no =93third way=94 possible, we must choose =
socialism=94<BR>(Adan=20
Chavez)</FONT></P><BR>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>On Monday April 18th, Adan =
Chavez, a leader=20
of the Bolivarian movement, elder brother of the President and currently =
Venezuelan Ambassador in Cuba, invited me to have breakfast with him in =
La=20
Casona, the traditional residence of Venezuelan presidents. I took the =
chance to=20
conduct a brief interview with him.</FONT></P>
<TABLE align=3Dright border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<DIV align=3Dright><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD>
<DIV align=3Dmiddle><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>Adan =
Chavez and Alan=20
Woods</FONT></DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>Alan Woods: Could you tell us =
something about=20
your family? I understand you come from a humble family.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>Adan Chavez: That=92s correct, I =
am from=20
Barinas state, which is in Los Llanos (the plains), in the Western part =
of=20
Venezuela. It is an agricultural region, mainly cattle rearing. Dad and =
Mum were=20
schoolteachers, but they are now retired. Since 1998 my father has been =
a state=20
governor. We were six brothers, and I was the eldest.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: How did you become involved =
in=20
politics?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: When I was 16 I joined the =
Revolutionary=20
Left Movement (MIR), a Marxist-Leninist organisation which had links =
with the=20
Chilean MIR. There I started my political and revolutionary education. =
But after=20
three years this party started to degenerate, becoming a revisionist =
party which=20
even split into two fractions: one which continued to call itself the =
MIR and=20
another called New Alternative. I decided not to join either of the two =
groups.=20
I did not agree with revisionism and I was of the opinion that we needed =
to=20
build a genuine revolutionary party in contact with the =
masses.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: What did you do =
then?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: We were a group of =
youngsters, doing=20
work in the university. We spent more or less a year and a half like =
that, until=20
we joined another party, the Party of the Venezuelan Revolution (PRV). =
This=20
party was working underground and was led by commander Douglas Bravo, =
the famous=20
guerrilla. We conducted urban guerrilla work. But because of its =
clandestine=20
character this party did not have contact with the masses. Furthermore =
they were=20
very dogmatic and sectarian. Like the MIR, it split and ended up =
disappearing.=20
In order to achieve a revolutionary popular movement, which would allow =
the=20
taking of power, one had to have a strong influence within the popular =
masses=20
and have support within the Armed Forces.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>It was at that time that my =
brother Hugo was=20
serving in the National Armed Forces as a young officer. A small group =
of=20
officers who were unhappy about the situation in the country and who =
thought=20
that something had to be done to change it was set up. These were =
progressive=20
and patriotic army men. I informed the leadership of the party of the =
existence=20
of my brother. In this way contacts were established between the two =
sides. Hugo=20
Chavez also had other contacts with other left groups. Though finally =
the PRV=20
disappeared, one must give it credit for this. Once again I was left =
with no=20
concrete membership, but we kept in touch with the patriotic officers =
giving=20
them any support we could. A civilian-military movement was =
consolidated, the=20
Bolivarian Revolutionary Movement 200 (MBR-200). They were reading, =
discussing=20
and finally decided that they had to rescue the revolutionary ideas of =
Simon=20
Bolivar, Simon Rodriguez and Ezequiel Zamora.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: But you are =
Marxist?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: Of course.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: So, how do you see the role =
of Marxism in=20
the Bolivarian revolution?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: In the same way that we have =
reclaimed=20
the ideas of Bolivar, Rodriguez and Zamora, I think that we must reclaim =
the=20
genuine ideas of Marxism, applying them correctly to our society. The =
scientific=20
method of Marxism is a necessity. We are a movement based on the =
=93principles of=20
the tree of the three roots=94: Simon Bolivar, Simon Rodriguez and =
Ezequiel=20
Zamora. But if you read these principles you will soon understand that =
they are=20
not at all in contradiction with Marxism, they defend the principles of=20
democracy, equality and humanity.</FONT></P>
<TABLE align=3Dleft border=3D0>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD>
<DIV align=3Dleft><FONT face=3D"Arial Black"=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: And these principles, can =
they be carried=20
out under the capitalist system?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: I personally think they =
cannot. And=20
President Chavez has said in the last few months that capitalism is =
slavery and=20
that the Bolivarian revolution must go towards socialism. This =
conclusion is not=20
by chance. It is the product of many discussions, many experiences and =
an=20
in-depth analysis of the situation. The President used to consider the =
option of=20
the so-called =93Third Way=94 =96 a way between capitalism and =
socialism. We examined=20
that and, as the President said, we have realised that for the =
Bolivarian=20
revolution there is no third way possible, we must choose the way of =
socialism.=20
This does not mean we are going to import other models from outside. =
Socialism=20
is a system in which man is above Capital. That is clear. But we must =
adapt the=20
ideas of socialism to the concrete conditions.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: I believe you are reading my =
book =93Reason=20
in Revolt=94. Can you give me your opinion on it? You can speak with =
complete=20
sincerity!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: I think it is an excellent =
book. I have=20
not finished it yet, but my impression is that it is a rigorous Marxist =
analysis=20
of philosophy applied to nature. I am a physicist, and this seems=20
extraordinarily interesting to me. I am interested above all in what you =
write=20
about the origins of the universe =96 a subject I have always been =
passionate=20
about, and which unfortunately I have abandoned.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: The Cuban edition of =
=93Reason in Revolt=94=20
is just being prepared. I hope you will help me launch it.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: That would be a great honour =
and a=20
pleasure.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: You know that we have =
organised a=20
campaign in solidarity with the revolution called =93Hands off =
Venezuela=94, which=20
is now active in more than 30 countries all over the world. What do you =
think of=20
this?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: I think it is a very =
important=20
initiative. I see that you are fighting to counter the media campaign of =
lies=20
against the Bolivarian revolution. I think that the =93Hands Off=94 =
campaign, apart=20
from solidarity, is also an attempt to integrate the different peoples =
of the=20
world, and that deserves a lot of support.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>AW: Finally, do you have any =
message for the=20
supporters of =93Hands Off Venezuela=94?</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>ACh: First of all, I recognise =
the invaluable=20
work of the =93Hands Off Venezuela=94 campaign. I appeal to you to go =
forward, be=20
sure that this work will give important fruits in the end. My message is =
one of=20
optimism and hope, fighting all united for the same cause.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial Black" size=3D2>April 18, =
2005</FONT></P></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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