| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Rudy Canoza" |
| Date: |
04 Apr 2007 12:24:27 AM |
| Object: |
American cars = ***** |
"U.S. carmakers lose ground to Asian rivals"
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/03/us.auto.sales.reut/index.html
DETROIT, Michigan (Reuters) -- General Motors and Ford
Motor posted lower March U.S. sales on Tuesday, dragged
down by weak truck demand and expected cuts to car
rental companies, while Asian rivals led by Toyota
Motor continued to make inroads in the market.
General Motors sales fell 7.7 percent and Ford's were
off by 12.4 percent, as its critical F-Series pickup
truck sales dropped 15 percent.
Chrysler Group, the troubled U.S. unit of
DaimlerChrysler AG, also reported a fall of 8 percent
in March, when adjusted for the number of sales days in
comparable periods.
Toyota, which is expected to overtake GM as the world's
largest automaker as soon as this year, posted a
7.7-percent increase in March on the strength of its
sedans, including the Prius hybrid car, and crossovers
or car-based sports utility vehicles.
....
All three U.S. automakers are restructuring North
American operations
--------------------------------------------------
The American car manufacturers can "restructure" all
they want. It won't make any difference. They make
***** cars, and people with any sense of discernment
don't want them. It's not a question of "business
structure", it's a question of SHITTY automotive
engineering resulting in SHITTY cars.
The foreign manufacturers just have a different, and
better, conception of what a car is supposed to be and
do.
.
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| User: "What Me Worry?" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 02:05:08 AM |
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"Rudy Canoza" <rudy-canoza@excite.con> wrote in message
news:fEGQh.134148$_73.62239@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"U.S. carmakers lose ground to Asian rivals"
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/03/us.auto.sales.reut/index.html
DETROIT, Michigan (Reuters) -- General Motors and Ford Motor posted lower
March U.S. sales on Tuesday, dragged down by weak truck demand
There's not much demand for GM's weak-***** trucks.
.
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| User: "Godzilla Pimp" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 03:25:37 PM |
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"Rudy Canoza" <rudy-canoza@excite.con> wrote in message
news:fEGQh.134148$_73.62239@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"U.S. carmakers lose ground to Asian rivals"
I saw a black woman UAW member interviewed. She makes $50K plus lavish
benefits at GM as a janitor.
GM
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| User: "Rev. 11D Meow!" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 12:39:04 AM |
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*****!
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
for sucking gas, that is.
"Rudy Canoza" <rudy-canoza@excite.con> wrote in message
news:fEGQh.134148$_73.62239@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"U.S. carmakers lose ground to Asian rivals"
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/03/us.auto.sales.reut/index.html
DETROIT, Michigan (Reuters) -- General Motors and Ford Motor posted lower
March U.S. sales on Tuesday, dragged down by weak truck demand and
expected cuts to car rental companies, while Asian rivals led by Toyota
Motor continued to make inroads in the market.
General Motors sales fell 7.7 percent and Ford's were off by 12.4 percent,
as its critical F-Series pickup truck sales dropped 15 percent.
Chrysler Group, the troubled U.S. unit of DaimlerChrysler AG, also
reported a fall of 8 percent in March, when adjusted for the number of
sales days in comparable periods.
Toyota, which is expected to overtake GM as the world's largest automaker
as soon as this year, posted a 7.7-percent increase in March on the
strength of its sedans, including the Prius hybrid car, and crossovers or
car-based sports utility vehicles.
...
All three U.S. automakers are restructuring North American operations
--------------------------------------------------
The American car manufacturers can "restructure" all they want. It won't
make any difference. They make ***** cars, and people with any sense of
discernment don't want them. It's not a question of "business structure",
it's a question of SHITTY automotive engineering resulting in SHITTY cars.
The foreign manufacturers just have a different, and better, conception of
what a car is supposed to be and do.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 02:41:55 AM |
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On Apr 3, 10:39 pm, "Rev. 11D Meow!" <J...@Crack.corn> wrote:
*****!
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
for sucking gas, that is.
"Rudy Canoza" <rudy-can...@excite.con> wrote in message
news:fEGQh.134148$_73.62239@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"U.S. carmakers lose ground to Asian rivals"
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/03/us.auto.sales.reut/index.html
DETROIT, Michigan (Reuters) -- General Motors and Ford Motor posted lower
March U.S. sales on Tuesday, dragged down by weak truck demand and
expected cuts to car rental companies, while Asian rivals led by Toyota
Motor continued to make inroads in the market.
General Motors sales fell 7.7 percent and Ford's were off by 12.4 percent,
as its critical F-Series pickup truck sales dropped 15 percent.
Chrysler Group, the troubled U.S. unit of DaimlerChrysler AG, also
reported a fall of 8 percent in March, when adjusted for the number of
sales days in comparable periods.
Toyota, which is expected to overtake GM as the world's largest automaker
as soon as this year, posted a 7.7-percent increase in March on the
strength of its sedans, including the Prius hybrid car, and crossovers or
car-based sports utility vehicles.
...
All three U.S. automakers are restructuring North American operations
--------------------------------------------------
The American car manufacturers can "restructure" all they want. It won't
make any difference. They make ***** cars, and people with any sense of
discernment don't want them. It's not a question of "business structure",
it's a question of SHITTY automotive engineering resulting in SHITTY cars.
The foreign manufacturers just have a different, and better, conception of
what a car is supposed to be and do.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
*****. Who wants to drive 15 miles per gallon fucking bigass truck?
And look at the fucking big-***** Americans. No wonder why they needs
big truck?
Man...Look the size of the door and look at fat-***** American coming
through
hugh bigass door. No wonder the door is fucking big! Next time they
need a bus.
.
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| User: "Leonardo" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 08:27:02 AM |
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On Apr 4, 12:39 am, "Rev. 11D Meow!" <J...@Crack.corn> wrote:
*****!
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
for sucking gas, that is.
"Rudy Canoza" <rudy-can...@excite.con> wrote in message
news:fEGQh.134148$_73.62239@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"U.S. carmakers lose ground to Asian rivals"
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/04/03/us.auto.sales.reut/index.html
DETROIT, Michigan (Reuters) -- General Motors and Ford Motor posted lower
March U.S. sales on Tuesday, dragged down by weak truck demand and
expected cuts to car rental companies, while Asian rivals led by Toyota
Motor continued to make inroads in the market.
General Motors sales fell 7.7 percent and Ford's were off by 12.4 percent,
as its critical F-Series pickup truck sales dropped 15 percent.
Chrysler Group, the troubled U.S. unit of DaimlerChrysler AG, also
reported a fall of 8 percent in March, when adjusted for the number of
sales days in comparable periods.
Toyota, which is expected to overtake GM as the world's largest automaker
as soon as this year, posted a 7.7-percent increase in March on the
strength of its sedans, including the Prius hybrid car, and crossovers or
car-based sports utility vehicles.
...
All three U.S. automakers are restructuring North American operations
--------------------------------------------------
The American car manufacturers can "restructure" all they want. It won't
make any difference. They make ***** cars, and people with any sense of
discernment don't want them. It's not a question of "business structure",
it's a question of SHITTY automotive engineering resulting in SHITTY cars.
The foreign manufacturers just have a different, and better, conception of
what a car is supposed to be and do.
But what about acoustic guitars? America still makes the best. Martin
and Taylor rule!
L.
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| User: "Lockheed Martin" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 03:07:40 AM |
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On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!" <Jimmy@Crack.corn>
wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest gas guzzlers in
the whole wide world only suckers in America buy them; but now some
are awakening to a rude awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 03:34:31 AM |
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"Lockheed Martin" <warprofits@whitehouse.us.gov> wrote in message
news:i2n613p56dh26ke536lpefm6hrfjf9ccqs@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!" <Jimmy@Crack.corn>
wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest gas guzzlers in
the whole wide world only suckers in America buy them; but now some
are awakening to a rude awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about anything, about war, about
righteousness, we're absolutely dumb... Someone should write "How to stop
being stupid for Dummies"
.
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| User: "Rudy Canoza" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 10:06:41 AM |
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wrote:
"Lockheed Martin" <warprofits@whitehouse.us.gov> wrote in message
news:i2n613p56dh26ke536lpefm6hrfjf9ccqs@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!" <Jimmy@Crack.corn>
wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest gas guzzlers in
the whole wide world only suckers in America buy them; but now some
are awakening to a rude awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about anything, about war, about
righteousness, we're absolutely dumb... Someone should write "How to stop
being stupid for Dummies"
Exactly right.
Americans as a people get so much wrong, and so badly
wrong. The basic strengths and virtues of the country
are undeniable, but Americans as a people then proceed
to ***** it all away.
What's appalling is the parochial boosterism, the
belligerent "we're number 1!" puffery, when the list of
things in which we're number 1 is shrinking, and most
of the elements of the list are not that worthwhile in
the first place.
Cars are just one manifestation. Americans, especially
those stupid red-state Americans who still avidly buy
American cars, don't have any understanding of the fact
that "American engineering" is not a marketing slogan
in the sale of our cars; rather, it's something the
dealer tries to conceal and downplay. Europeans and
Asians don't equate "American engineering" with good
cars; very much the contrary. Ford and GM sell cars in
Europe, but they aren't American engineered or American
built.
.
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| User: "Lockheed Martin" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 07:02:54 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:34:31 GMT, "theloneranger100@aol.com"
<ScreenRanger100@aol.com> wrote:
"Lockheed Martin" <warprofits@whitehouse.us.gov> wrote in message
news:i2n613p56dh26ke536lpefm6hrfjf9ccqs@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!" <Jimmy@Crack.corn>
wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest gas guzzlers in
the whole wide world only suckers in America buy them; but now some
are awakening to a rude awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about anything, about war, about
righteousness, we're absolutely dumb... Someone should write "How to stop
being stupid for Dummies"
No kidding I knew that even before the 2000 election that if Bush got
elected he would find any excuse to invade Iraq; and lo and behold
9/11 drops into his laps the perfect excuse and the American Public
were only to willing to get brainwashed.
.
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| User: "Genaro" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 08:59:54 AM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:34:31 GMT,
"theloneranger100@aol.com" <ScreenRanger100@aol.com> wrote:
"Lockheed Martin" <warprofits@whitehouse.us.gov> wrote in
message news:i2n613p56dh26ke536lpefm6hrfjf9ccqs@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!"
<Jimmy@Crack.corn> wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest
gas guzzlers in the whole wide world only suckers in
America buy them; but now some are awakening to a rude
awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about anything,
about war, about righteousness, we're absolutely dumb...
Someone should write "How to stop being stupid for Dummies"
No kidding I knew that even before the 2000 election that
if Bush got elected he would find any excuse to invade
Iraq; and lo and behold 9/11 drops into his laps the
perfect excuse and the American Public were only to willing
to get brainwashed.
----------
(I was beginning to wonder when Iraq would come up.)
How about we tax gas based on the type car we drive (or
private jet we fly). States already tax vehicle registration
by things like weight and value. Take it one step further. At
least we get more control back on how much we spend for gas,
Then increase oversight on big oil companies and EPA to make
sure they don't compensate by raising prices or increasing
gas tax unnecessarily. Just a thought.
----------
----------
.
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| User: "Rudy Canoza" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 03:40:17 PM |
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Genaro wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:34:31 GMT,
"theloneranger100@aol.com" <ScreenRanger100@aol.com> wrote:
"Lockheed Martin" <warprofits@whitehouse.us.gov> wrote in
message news:i2n613p56dh26ke536lpefm6hrfjf9ccqs@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!"
<Jimmy@Crack.corn> wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest
gas guzzlers in the whole wide world only suckers in
America buy them; but now some are awakening to a rude
awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about anything,
about war, about righteousness, we're absolutely dumb...
Someone should write "How to stop being stupid for Dummies"
No kidding I knew that even before the 2000 election that
if Bush got elected he would find any excuse to invade
Iraq; and lo and behold 9/11 drops into his laps the
perfect excuse and the American Public were only to willing
to get brainwashed.
----------
(I was beginning to wonder when Iraq would come up.)
How about we tax gas based on the type car we drive (or
private jet we fly). States already tax vehicle registration
by things like weight and value.
This is inadequate. SUVs, pickup trucks and
high-profile private vehicles should pay several times
the registration cost of sedans of comparable weight
and fuel consumption. There needs to be a very
powerful and harsh disincentive to people driving SUVs,
vans and trucks as family and commuter vehicles.
Take it one step further. At
least we get more control back on how much we spend for gas,
Then increase oversight on big oil companies and EPA to make
sure they don't compensate by raising prices or increasing
gas tax unnecessarily. Just a thought.
----------
----------
.
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| User: "Genaro" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 06:52:17 PM |
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AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest
gas guzzlers in the whole wide world only suckers in
America buy them; but now some are awakening to a rude
awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about
anything,
about war, about righteousness, we're absolutely dumb...
Someone should write "How to stop being stupid for
Dummies"
No kidding I knew that even before the 2000 election that
if Bush got elected he would find any excuse to invade
Iraq; and lo and behold 9/11 drops into his laps the
perfect excuse and the American Public were only to
willing
to get brainwashed.
----------
(I was beginning to wonder when Iraq would come up.)
How about we tax gas based on the type car we drive (or
private jet we fly). States already tax vehicle
registration
by things like weight and value.
This is inadequate. SUVs, pickup trucks and
high-profile private vehicles should pay several times
the registration cost of sedans of comparable weight
and fuel consumption. There needs to be a very
powerful and harsh disincentive to people driving SUVs,
vans and trucks as family and commuter vehicles.
Take it one step further. At
least we get more control back on how much we spend for
gas,
Then increase oversight on big oil companies and EPA to
make
sure they don't compensate by raising prices or increasing
gas tax unnecessarily. Just a thought.
----------
--------
It would be up to the states to determine their own graduated
gas tax system based on the vehicle's MPG. I'm not suggesting
that families of 5 or more be unfairly taxed for needing a
bigger vehicle, but they would be paying more since those
vehicles tend to get lesser MPG.
--------
.
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| User: "PeteCresswell" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 07:35:01 PM |
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Per Rudy Canoza:
How about we tax gas based on the type car we drive (or
private jet we fly). States already tax vehicle registration
by things like weight and value.
This is inadequate. SUVs, pickup trucks and
high-profile private vehicles should pay several times
the registration cost of sedans of comparable weight
and fuel consumption. There needs to be a very
powerful and harsh disincentive to people driving SUVs,
vans and trucks as family and commuter vehicles.
How about wait a few years and let five-dollar-a-gallon gas take care of it all?
Seemed to work in Europe....
--
PeteCresswell
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| User: "AL" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 07:34:45 PM |
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Rudy Canoza wrote:
SUVs, pickup trucks and high-profile private
vehicles should pay several times the registration cost of sedans of
comparable weight and fuel consumption. There needs to be a very
powerful and harsh disincentive to people driving SUVs, vans and trucks
as family and commuter vehicles.
Hmmm, a rather high mach approach - why not focus on incentives instead
instead of punishment? Besides, the folks who drive the big machines are
proving the cost to operate isn't that much of a deterrent - they'll
continue to pay whatever the cost and you'll still occasionally find
yourself parked next to one wherever you shop...
.
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| User: "Lockheed Martin" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 03:20:54 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:59:54 -0500, Genaro <genaro@cablespeed.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:34:31 GMT,
"theloneranger100@aol.com" <ScreenRanger100@aol.com> wrote:
"Lockheed Martin" <warprofits@whitehouse.us.gov> wrote in
message news:i2n613p56dh26ke536lpefm6hrfjf9ccqs@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!"
<Jimmy@Crack.corn> wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest
gas guzzlers in the whole wide world only suckers in
America buy them; but now some are awakening to a rude
awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about anything,
about war, about righteousness, we're absolutely dumb...
Someone should write "How to stop being stupid for Dummies"
No kidding I knew that even before the 2000 election that
if Bush got elected he would find any excuse to invade
Iraq; and lo and behold 9/11 drops into his laps the
perfect excuse and the American Public were only to willing
to get brainwashed.
----------
(I was beginning to wonder when Iraq would come up.)
How about we tax gas based on the type car we drive
Ah but if you were to do that then more and more Americans would buy
more Hybrid Fuel Efficient cars made elswehere.
Even if Bush would give subsidies to American car makers they would
still face bankruptcy cuzz it's too late.
(or
private jet we fly). States already tax vehicle registration
by things like weight and value. Take it one step further. At
least we get more control back on how much we spend for gas,
Then increase oversight on big oil companies and EPA to make
sure they don't compensate by raising prices or increasing
gas tax unnecessarily. Just a thought.
----------
----------
.
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| User: "Genaro" |
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| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 06:09:51 PM |
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On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 08:34:31 GMT,
"theloneranger100@aol.com" <ScreenRanger100@aol.com>
wrote:
"Lockheed Martin" <warprofits@whitehouse.us.gov> wrote in
message
news:i2n613p56dh26ke536lpefm6hrfjf9ccqs@4ax.com...
On Tue, 3 Apr 2007 22:39:04 -0700, "Rev. 11D Meow!"
<Jimmy@Crack.corn> wrote:
AMERICAN AUTOMOBILES ROCK!
Yes American cars rock especially in being the biggest
gas guzzlers in the whole wide world only suckers in
America buy them; but now some are awakening to a rude
awakening
"We can't afford the high price of gas anymore."
That's why we can't see what the world see about
anything, about war, about righteousness, we're
absolutely dumb... Someone should write "How to stop
being stupid for Dummies"
No kidding I knew that even before the 2000 election that
if Bush got elected he would find any excuse to invade
Iraq; and lo and behold 9/11 drops into his laps the
perfect excuse and the American Public were only to
willing to get brainwashed.
----------
(I was beginning to wonder when Iraq would come up.)
How about we tax gas based on the type car we drive
Ah but if you were to do that then more and more Americans
would buy more Hybrid Fuel Efficient cars made elswehere.
Even if Bush would give subsidies to American car makers
they would still face bankruptcy cuzz it's too late.
(or
private jet we fly). States already tax vehicle
registration by things like weight and value. Take it one
step further. At least we get more control back on how much
we spend for gas, Then increase oversight on big oil
companies and EPA to make sure they don't compensate by
raising prices or increasing gas tax unnecessarily. Just a
thought. ----------
----------
--------
Good old capitalism at work! Companies competing to build a
better mousetrap providing us with the opportunity to pick
and choose. If foreign auto makers build a better, more
efficient vehicle, by all means buy it.
American auto makers are forced to build a better product, if
they want to stay in business, and emissions are decreased.
--------
.
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| User: "grinder" |
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| Title: A '77 Monza Story |
06 Apr 2007 11:16:34 AM |
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Bought the car when it was 2 years old and had 18,000 miles on it. Here are
some of the results of good old American engineering:
It had a 5.0L V8. Fast in a straight line but put a little water on the
pavement and the backend would try to pass the front end. Big time
oversteer. In one case I managed to do a 180 going about 15 mph (seemed
like I could get out of the car and walk while it was turning). It hit the
curb and broke and axle. Later found out the next owner did the same thing.
The engine had to be unbolted from the car and jacked up slightly in order
to change one of the spark plugs.
At 22k the lobes on the cam shaft went "round" taking out the lifters,
damaging the pistons and timing chain/gear. At that time the bill was $475
which was a lot of money for me back then. I took GM to small claims court.
I showed up at the 1 p.m. scheduled appearance when the court room was full.
Their lawyers said they were too busy and had it rescheduled for 2 weeks
later. The second appearance was the last one of the day. There was me on
one side and 3 lawyers (1 of which was flown in from Detroit), an "expert"
(from 60 miles away) and a rep from the local dealership on the other side.
They stalled until everybody left the courtroom. Their expert was a joke.
She had less training than a barber receives. I asked her questions and
their lawyers kept objecting. The Judge overruled them. Then I took the
stand. I stated I religiously changed the oil every 3000 miles and that I
was an automotive industrial arts teacher. They wanted to know the type of
oil I used (Quaker State) and then insinuated the oil was the problem.
Anyway I lost the case. Outside the courtroom they were all smiles. At
least until I told them I was going to ship the cam and lifters to the FTC.
I also told them this was the last GM car I would ever buy (it was).
Behold!!!! The FTC was in the middle of an investigation regarding soft
cam shafts on GM's 5.0L V8 engines!!! I wrote them a letter every month and
asked how the investigation was going. I copied GM corporate.
I moved across the country a year later and one day got a call from GM.
They wanted to know how much of a settlement would make me happy. I told
them $475. They paid $600.
Before the Monza I had a Buick which caught fire (in fairness I sold it at
120k and the engine was still running like a champ) because the amount of
rust under the car let the exhaust touch the interior under the rear seat, a
Chevy Impala which needed a complete motor overhaul at 60k and a Mustang
which burned as much oil as gas at 38k.
Never will I buy an American car again. When somebody says they always buy
American I tell them buy something which gives them bang for the buck i.e.
Camry and send a check to the U.A.W. to calm their conscience.
.
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| User: "Rudy Canoza" |
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| Title: Re: A '77 Monza Story |
06 Apr 2007 01:15:35 PM |
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grinder wrote:
Bought the car when it was 2 years old and had 18,000 miles on it. Here are
some of the results of good old American engineering:
It had a 5.0L V8. Fast in a straight line but put a little water on the
pavement and the backend would try to pass the front end. Big time
oversteer. In one case I managed to do a 180 going about 15 mph (seemed
like I could get out of the car and walk while it was turning). It hit the
curb and broke and axle. Later found out the next owner did the same thing.
The engine had to be unbolted from the car and jacked up slightly in order
to change one of the spark plugs.
At 22k the lobes on the cam shaft went "round" taking out the lifters,
damaging the pistons and timing chain/gear. At that time the bill was $475
which was a lot of money for me back then. I took GM to small claims court.
I showed up at the 1 p.m. scheduled appearance when the court room was full.
Their lawyers said they were too busy and had it rescheduled for 2 weeks
later. The second appearance was the last one of the day. There was me on
one side and 3 lawyers (1 of which was flown in from Detroit), an "expert"
(from 60 miles away) and a rep from the local dealership on the other side.
They stalled until everybody left the courtroom. Their expert was a joke.
She had less training than a barber receives. I asked her questions and
their lawyers kept objecting. The Judge overruled them. Then I took the
stand. I stated I religiously changed the oil every 3000 miles and that I
was an automotive industrial arts teacher. They wanted to know the type of
oil I used (Quaker State) and then insinuated the oil was the problem.
Anyway I lost the case. Outside the courtroom they were all smiles. At
least until I told them I was going to ship the cam and lifters to the FTC.
I also told them this was the last GM car I would ever buy (it was).
Behold!!!! The FTC was in the middle of an investigation regarding soft
cam shafts on GM's 5.0L V8 engines!!! I wrote them a letter every month and
asked how the investigation was going. I copied GM corporate.
I moved across the country a year later and one day got a call from GM.
They wanted to know how much of a settlement would make me happy. I told
them $475. They paid $600.
Before the Monza I had a Buick which caught fire (in fairness I sold it at
120k and the engine was still running like a champ) because the amount of
rust under the car let the exhaust touch the interior under the rear seat, a
Chevy Impala which needed a complete motor overhaul at 60k and a Mustang
which burned as much oil as gas at 38k.
Never will I buy an American car again. When somebody says they always buy
American I tell them buy something which gives them bang for the buck i.e.
Camry and send a check to the U.A.W. to calm their conscience.
I don't think you hear any out-and-out horror stories
like that any more, but for certain the American
companies have not caught up to the foreign ones in
terms of reliability.
.
|
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|
| User: "Chevrolets Momma" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
04 Apr 2007 07:26:53 PM |
|
|
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mort" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 11:16:04 AM |
|
|
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
.
|
|
|
| User: "Balanced View" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 12:49:39 PM |
|
|
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rudy Canoza" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 01:31:24 PM |
|
|
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.
True. I'd say the problem of labor unions concerning American
automotive manufacturing is no worse than being the rancid icing on a
worm-eaten, moldy cake.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Mort" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 01:36:21 PM |
|
|
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
.
|
|
|
| User: "Balanced View" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 04:07:38 PM |
|
|
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
LOL, how can you blame the unions? It was the poor management that
promised the unions healthcare and pensions
and then put not enough money aside to cover for them. GM, Ford,
American Motors and Chrysler were all making
***** long before there were any problems with profitability. GM built
cars that they wanted to sell the public until the
Japanese showed the market a new revenue model, reliability and economy.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mort" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 04:30:00 PM |
|
|
On Apr 5, 2:07 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
LOL, how can you blame the unions? It was the poor management that
promised the unions healthcare and pensions
and then put not enough money aside to cover for them. GM, Ford,
American Motors and Chrysler were all making
***** long before there were any problems with profitability. GM built
cars that they wanted to sell the public until the
Japanese showed the market a new revenue model, reliability and economy.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you will notice my first post about unions was that they should
share the blame. If you think they are of no blame for US automakers
decline you are a fool.
Charlie
.
|
|
|
| User: "Balanced View" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
05 Apr 2007 09:55:06 PM |
|
|
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 2:07 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
LOL, how can you blame the unions? It was the poor management that
promised the unions healthcare and pensions
and then put not enough money aside to cover for them. GM, Ford,
American Motors and Chrysler were all making
***** long before there were any problems with profitability. GM built
cars that they wanted to sell the public until the
Japanese showed the market a new revenue model, reliability and economy.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you will notice my first post about unions was that they should
share the blame. If you think they are of no blame for US automakers
decline you are a fool.
Charlie
They are not to blame, they were wage slaves and nothing more. They had
no more to do with the design of the cars
than construction workers have building homes.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mort" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
06 Apr 2007 09:05:56 AM |
|
|
On Apr 5, 7:55 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 2:07 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
LOL, how can you blame the unions? It was the poor management that
promised the unions healthcare and pensions
and then put not enough money aside to cover for them. GM, Ford,
American Motors and Chrysler were all making
***** long before there were any problems with profitability. GM built
cars that they wanted to sell the public until the
Japanese showed the market a new revenue model, reliability and economy.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you will notice my first post about unions was that they should
share the blame. If you think they are of no blame for US automakers
decline you are a fool.
Charlie
They are not to blame, they were wage slaves and nothing more. They had
no more to do with the design of the cars
than construction workers have building homes.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
They (unions) were very significantly to blame. You obviously know
nothing about how a company works. The exorbatant demands by labor
were the main cause of the decline of innovation (which is costly),
cheapening of componants and in seeking every cost saving method
possible to stay competitive with the huge labor costs demanded by
union strikes.
The labor costs weakened the US automakers to the point that foreign
makers were able, with their lower labor costs to offer cars of better
design and quality.
Share the blame is what I said and it is a fact.
Mort
.
|
|
|
| User: "Balanced View" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
07 Apr 2007 11:03:37 PM |
|
|
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 7:55 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 2:07 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
LOL, how can you blame the unions? It was the poor management that
promised the unions healthcare and pensions
and then put not enough money aside to cover for them. GM, Ford,
American Motors and Chrysler were all making
***** long before there were any problems with profitability. GM built
cars that they wanted to sell the public until the
Japanese showed the market a new revenue model, reliability and economy.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you will notice my first post about unions was that they should
share the blame. If you think they are of no blame for US automakers
decline you are a fool.
Charlie
They are not to blame, they were wage slaves and nothing more. They had
no more to do with the design of the cars
than construction workers have building homes.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
They (unions) were very significantly to blame. You obviously know
nothing about how a company works. The exorbatant demands by labor
were the main cause of the decline of innovation (which is costly),
cheapening of componants and in seeking every cost saving method
possible to stay competitive with the huge labor costs demanded by
union strikes.
The labor costs weakened the US automakers to the point that foreign
makers were able, with their lower labor costs to offer cars of better
design and quality.
Share the blame is what I said and it is a fact.
Mort
*****, the wages paid to America auto workers in Toyota plants is
very close to those of GM
($26.50 an hour versus $27.13), and yet Toyota builds the most
innovative & quality cars in the world.
If it hadn't been for Japanese competition we'd still be driving around
in the 5,000lb Ford Galaxies
and Chevy Impala's. The problem with American car makers is they
considered their customers to
be brainless assholes and sold them crap until they began to lose their
strangle hold on the industry.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rudy Canoza" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
08 Apr 2007 10:46:55 AM |
|
|
Balanced View wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 7:55 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 2:07 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com>
wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently
own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM
products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers
don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its
litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The
decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies
just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
LOL, how can you blame the unions? It was the poor management that
promised the unions healthcare and pensions
and then put not enough money aside to cover for them. GM, Ford,
American Motors and Chrysler were all making
***** long before there were any problems with profitability. GM built
cars that they wanted to sell the public until the
Japanese showed the market a new revenue model, reliability and
economy.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you will notice my first post about unions was that they should
share the blame. If you think they are of no blame for US automakers
decline you are a fool.
Charlie
They are not to blame, they were wage slaves and nothing more. They had
no more to do with the design of the cars
than construction workers have building homes.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
They (unions) were very significantly to blame. You obviously know
nothing about how a company works. The exorbatant demands by labor
were the main cause of the decline of innovation (which is costly),
cheapening of componants and in seeking every cost saving method
possible to stay competitive with the huge labor costs demanded by
union strikes.
The labor costs weakened the US automakers to the point that foreign
makers were able, with their lower labor costs to offer cars of better
design and quality.
Share the blame is what I said and it is a fact.
Mort
*****, the wages paid to America auto workers in Toyota plants is
very close to those of GM
($26.50 an hour versus $27.13), and yet Toyota builds the most
innovative & quality cars in the world.
If it hadn't been for Japanese competition we'd still be driving around
in the 5,000lb Ford Galaxies
and Chevy Impala's. The problem with American car makers is they
considered their customers to
be brainless assholes and sold them crap until they began to lose their
strangle hold on the industry.
Except that at the time, most American drivers *were*
brainless assholes. The problem for the 'murkan car
makers is that starting with the baby boom generation,
people began to wise up.
'Murkan vs. foreign cars is just another aspect of the
red state - blue state divide.
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rudy Canoza" |
|
| Title: Re: American cars = ***** |
06 Apr 2007 11:19:50 AM |
|
|
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 7:55 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 2:07 pm, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 5, 10:49 am, Balanced View <N...@nill.net> wrote:
Mort wrote:
On Apr 4, 5:26 pm, "Chevrolet's Momma" <Kijiji.lo...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have always driven north american trucks. The two i currently own
are lemons spending more time on the tow truck hook then the road.
GM, you fooled me once.
I would gladly buy a toyota tundra or honda. Problem is my GM products
are near worthless in the resale market and the import dealers don't
want them on trade (who is gonna buy a diesel from GM with its litany
of engine problems?)
Blame corporate greed. GM execs paying themselves millions while
losing billions and refusing warranty work on the flimsiest of
reasons. My next vehicles will be jap or chink but they will never
again be GM.
Share some blame for the trade unions at the auto makers. The decline
in quality of American cars began with the trade unions.
Mort
What? since 1935? Man you need help, the auto workers only put the
pieces together, they have no
say in the design of the cars or the quality of the parts that go in
them. A shitty product is a shitty product
no matter who is paid to assemble it.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The outrageous demands during the very damaging strikes of the past
was the cause of shoddy design and cheapening of the products for
many, many years and for the huge rise of prices of cars. It allowed
foreign companies to easily compete and actually out compete the crap
that was being sold by US mfgs.
Labor caused the huge increase of costs and US companies just began
selling crappier and crappier junk each year. American consumers are
not dumb. They found quality elsewhere.
Mort
LOL, how can you blame the unions? It was the poor management that
promised the unions healthcare and pensions
and then put not enough money aside to cover for them. GM, Ford,
American Motors and Chrysler were all making
***** long before there were any problems with profitability. GM built
cars that they wanted to sell the public until the
Japanese showed the market a new revenue model, reliability and economy.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you will notice my first post about unions was that they should
share the blame. If you think they are of no blame for US automakers
decline you are a fool.
Charlie
They are not to blame, they were wage slaves and nothing more. They had
no more to do with the design of the cars
than construction workers have building homes.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
They (unions) were very significantly to blame. You obviously know
nothing about how a company works. The exorbatant demands by labor
were the main cause of the decline of innovation (which is costly),
cheapening of componants and in seeking every cost saving method
possible to stay competitive with the huge labor costs demanded by
union strikes.
Utter *****. French, Italian, and German unions all
are more powerful and more militant than American ones,
and it didn't have a corresponding effect on quality there.
We aren't really talking about innovation, anyway.
We're talking about engineering, and the engineers'
sense of what a car ought to be. When American
engineers still think that a car "ought" to be a 1969
Buick Electra with a marshmallow suspension, bench
seats, recirculating ball steering, bias ply tires, and
other SHITTY car features, they're going to engineer a
***** car no matter how much the unions extract from the
company.
The problem is that for decades, that kind of car is
exactly what the overfed, undiscerning,
undiscriminating American car-buying public did want,
at least in the heartland, i.e. flyover territory. To
this day, even the European imports, although they
handle far better than American cars, still have a
detuned suspension to give them a softer ride than the
same model sold in Europe. Mercedes-Benz makes a
manual transmission available on some of their E-class
models in Germany, but not in the US. Even among those
Americans who can appreciate some aspects of the
European vehicle experience, there isn't an
appreciation for all of it; no appreciation, in other
words, for the idea that a car is something you
actively *drive*, as opposed to having one's fat lard
***** cocooned in from point A to point B.
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