| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"Captain Compassion" |
| Date: |
08 Jan 2005 02:38:40 PM |
| Object: |
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
"It is an offense of the highest magnitude that the leader of our
nation — while swearing to uphold the Constitution — publicly violates
that very document upon taking his oath of office," Mr. Newdow wrote
in his Dec. 17 filing. "The demands of strict scrutiny have not been
met, and defendants must be enjoined from their planned religious
activities."
The Constitution does not require the new president to place his
hand on a Bible while repeating the oath. The tradition has been kept
since George Washington — with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt,
who did not use a Bible when he took the oath after President William
McKinley's 1901 assassination.
The Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell delivered
Christian invocations at President Bush's 2001 inauguration. Inaugural
organizers have yet to announce who will pray this year, but they
confirmed there will be an invocation and a benediction by ministers
chosen by the president.
The White House and the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which is
one of three inaugural organizational bodies, declined to comment on
Mr. Newdow's actions but a response to his filing was due yesterday.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for Thursday, Mr. Newdow said.
Mr. Newdow's efforts are "part of a march toward removing every
vestige of religion from American public life," said Jay Sekulow,
chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a
D.C.-based public interest law firm.
"There is a progressive move toward secularism that we've got to
combat pretty aggressively," he said.
The center is filing an amicus brief in support of the defendants
in this case..
The legal debate centers on two Supreme Court cases — Marsh v.
Chambers in 1983 and Lee v. Weisman in 1992.
The argument in favor of prayer at the inauguration is based on
the establishment of chaplains in Congress at its inception, before
the Bill of Rights was passed prohibiting any "law respecting an
establishment of religion."
When the presence of chaplains in the Nebraska state legislature
was legally challenged in 1983 by Ernest Chambers, a Nebraska
lawmaker, the Supreme Court ruled against him, saying the practice had
a "special nook" because it was a long-standing practice to have
government-paid chaplains.
"The Supreme Court has given its constitutional blessing, so to
speak," said Mr. Sekulow. "We should not lose our history and the
religious underpinnings it is founded on."
However, Mr. Newdow makes a distinction between prayer in
government chambers and prayer at a presidential inauguration.
"This is the most important public ceremony we have in our public
existence, the inauguration," he said. "This is public, not just for"
lawmakers.
The presence of Christian influence and prayer, Mr. Newdow said,
have forced him to contemplate not using his ticket to the
inauguration because he does not want to feel like "an outsider."
Mr. Newdow filed a similar suit in the San-Francisco-based 9th
U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year. The court threw out the suit,
calling it "futile" and said that Mr. Newdow had not suffered "a
sufficiently concrete and specific injury," the Associated Press
reported.
Mr. Newdow first became a national figure when he argued before
the Supreme Court last March to remove the phrase "under God" from the
Pledge of Allegiance. The court dismissed his case on the grounds that
he could not represent his 10-year-old daughter, who is in the custody
of his ex-wife and believes in God.
In addition to his quest to remove Christian activities from the
inauguration, Mr. Newdow has renewed his quest to remove "under God"
from the pledge by filing a new suit in California federal court on
behalf of eight other parents.
Mr. Newdow is a licensed minister of atheism, though he says he
and members of his Internet church worship nobody. He says church
members instead encourage a way of thinking.
"Question everything," said Mr. Newdow, summing up his worldview.
"Be honest. Do what's right. Stand up for principle."
When asked how to determine what is right, Mr. Newdow said, "I use
my brain."
Mr. Newdow states in his complaint that he "sincerely believes
that there is no such thing as god, or God, or any supernatural
force." On the contrary, he believes "supernatural" is an oxymoron.
"Thus, plaintiff denies the existence of God."
The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values
Coalition, said Mr. Newdow's filing marks "the day we have been
warning America would come."
"Mr. Newdow should be ashamed for seeking this injunction against
his fellow citizens," he said. "We, as Americans, need to awaken and
deal with these threats to religious liberty, cynically disguised as
'civil liberties' defense."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
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| User: "Randy Cox" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
09 Jan 2005 06:39:28 PM |
|
|
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
A twist of irony in the world of apostate Xians.... An atheist seeks to
enforce Biblical law and it goes unnoticed by those that profess to follow
that Book so profoundly...........and profanely and the faithless protester
alike.
From the Book that bears the hand of sworn oaths in America and directly
from the mouth of Jesus Christ: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
neither by heaven; for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his
footstool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black. But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for
whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 5:34-37
As for me, I have no dog in this fight, preferring to leave to Caesar things
that are Caesar's in this matter..........but the Atheist is theologically
correct on this one and those that resist him stand against the clear
instructions from the Lord. The Atheist speaks for himself, but when the
Xians speak for the Lord and do so errantly........I must rebuke them. I
don't want to.......but it is my mission in life to set them straight.
The words of the Lord speak for themselves as I slink away unworthy of such
wisdom.
Randy R. Cox
.
|
|
|
| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
09 Jan 2005 07:33:40 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:39:28 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
A twist of irony in the world of apostate Xians.... An atheist seeks to
enforce Biblical law and it goes unnoticed by those that profess to follow
that Book so profoundly...........and profanely and the faithless protester
alike.
From the Book that bears the hand of sworn oaths in America and directly
from the mouth of Jesus Christ: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
neither by heaven; for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his
footstool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black. But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for
whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 5:34-37
As for me, I have no dog in this fight, preferring to leave to Caesar things
that are Caesar's in this matter..........but the Atheist is theologically
correct on this one and those that resist him stand against the clear
instructions from the Lord. The Atheist speaks for himself, but when the
Xians speak for the Lord and do so errantly........I must rebuke them. I
don't want to.......but it is my mission in life to set them straight.
The words of the Lord speak for themselves as I slink away unworthy of such
wisdom.
I suspect the new oath will be "cross my heart and hope to die."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Randy Cox" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
09 Jan 2005 08:38:53 PM |
|
|
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:qpm3u01k95pqd3eso7t9ia30jtnq02jja0@4ax.com...
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:39:28 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
A twist of irony in the world of apostate Xians.... An atheist seeks to
enforce Biblical law and it goes unnoticed by those that profess to follow
that Book so profoundly...........and profanely and the faithless
protester
alike.
From the Book that bears the hand of sworn oaths in America and directly
from the mouth of Jesus Christ: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
neither by heaven; for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his
footstool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black. But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for
whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 5:34-37
As for me, I have no dog in this fight, preferring to leave to Caesar
things
that are Caesar's in this matter..........but the Atheist is theologically
correct on this one and those that resist him stand against the clear
instructions from the Lord. The Atheist speaks for himself, but when the
Xians speak for the Lord and do so errantly........I must rebuke them. I
don't want to.......but it is my mission in life to set them straight.
The words of the Lord speak for themselves as I slink away unworthy of
such
wisdom.
I suspect the new oath will be "cross my heart and hope to die."
If it is wrong to swear by ones head, it would be equally as wrong to swear
by ones heart. Christians and non-believers lie under oath every day! The
oath they take has little to do with it.
The only resultant function of an oath on the Bible is to give illusian to
the liar that it is okay to lie so long as there is no oath.
So cabinet members and sometimes Presidents and snake oil salesmen of all
kinds appear before Congress and the people and lie easily, comforted by
the fact that they are not under oath. Cultures that live by the
lie...require oaths to assure them. To cultures that honored truth for its
own sake......like most First American cultures......an oath seemed
redundant and silly. The responsibility of truth is always present, oath or
no oath except to cultures that live mostly by the lie and untruth.
The oath perpetuates a culture of permissive untruth and missinformation.
When someone tells me, "I swear, Honest to God!" I take that as a warning
that they have lied in the past and are probably about to lie once again.
Honestly, how many times have you heard those words before and after a huge
lie?
So with this prevailing oath, it becomes okay to lie to an old lady about to
buy a car, or a house so long as it's not in writting, but it is not okay to
lie to Judge or a jury! It becomes okay for a cop or FBI agent to lie to a
person, but not okay for that person to lie back to the cop or FBI agent.
These Pharisees are consumed with situation ethics. Our whole culture seems
unable to think for themselves to see what is obvious and written two
thousand years ago.
Randy R. Cox
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Captain Compassion" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
10 Jan 2005 12:59:35 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:38:53 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:qpm3u01k95pqd3eso7t9ia30jtnq02jja0@4ax.com...
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:39:28 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
A twist of irony in the world of apostate Xians.... An atheist seeks to
enforce Biblical law and it goes unnoticed by those that profess to follow
that Book so profoundly...........and profanely and the faithless
protester
alike.
From the Book that bears the hand of sworn oaths in America and directly
from the mouth of Jesus Christ: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
neither by heaven; for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his
footstool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black. But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for
whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 5:34-37
As for me, I have no dog in this fight, preferring to leave to Caesar
things
that are Caesar's in this matter..........but the Atheist is theologically
correct on this one and those that resist him stand against the clear
instructions from the Lord. The Atheist speaks for himself, but when the
Xians speak for the Lord and do so errantly........I must rebuke them. I
don't want to.......but it is my mission in life to set them straight.
The words of the Lord speak for themselves as I slink away unworthy of
such
wisdom.
I suspect the new oath will be "cross my heart and hope to die."
If it is wrong to swear by ones head, it would be equally as wrong to swear
by ones heart. Christians and non-believers lie under oath every day! The
oath they take has little to do with it.
The only resultant function of an oath on the Bible is to give illusian to
the liar that it is okay to lie so long as there is no oath.
So cabinet members and sometimes Presidents and snake oil salesmen of all
kinds appear before Congress and the people and lie easily, comforted by
the fact that they are not under oath. Cultures that live by the
lie...require oaths to assure them. To cultures that honored truth for its
own sake......like most First American cultures......an oath seemed
redundant and silly. The responsibility of truth is always present, oath or
no oath except to cultures that live mostly by the lie and untruth.
The oath perpetuates a culture of permissive untruth and missinformation.
When someone tells me, "I swear, Honest to God!" I take that as a warning
that they have lied in the past and are probably about to lie once again.
Honestly, how many times have you heard those words before and after a huge
lie?
So with this prevailing oath, it becomes okay to lie to an old lady about to
buy a car, or a house so long as it's not in writting, but it is not okay to
lie to Judge or a jury! It becomes okay for a cop or FBI agent to lie to a
person, but not okay for that person to lie back to the cop or FBI agent.
These Pharisees are consumed with situation ethics. Our whole culture seems
unable to think for themselves to see what is obvious and written two
thousand years ago.
It's not the oath that keeps people from lying to the Judge but the
fear of purgery.
18 USc 1623. False declarations before grand jury or court
(a) Whoever under oath (or in any declaration, certificate,
verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under
section 1746 of title 28, United States Code) in any proceeding before
or ancillary to any court or grand jury of the United States knowingly
makes any false material declaration or makes or uses any other
information, including any book, paper, document, record, recording,
or other material, knowing the same to contain any false material
declaration, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than five years, or both.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Randy Cox" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
10 Jan 2005 04:43:33 AM |
|
|
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:um94u05dt7adau88kp7dgqh3b9ikfc62bl@4ax.com...
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 20:38:53 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:qpm3u01k95pqd3eso7t9ia30jtnq02jja0@4ax.com...
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:39:28 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
A twist of irony in the world of apostate Xians.... An atheist seeks to
enforce Biblical law and it goes unnoticed by those that profess to
follow
that Book so profoundly...........and profanely and the faithless
protester
alike.
From the Book that bears the hand of sworn oaths in America and directly
from the mouth of Jesus Christ: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
neither by heaven; for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is
his
footstool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one
hair
white or black. But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for
whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 5:34-37
As for me, I have no dog in this fight, preferring to leave to Caesar
things
that are Caesar's in this matter..........but the Atheist is
theologically
correct on this one and those that resist him stand against the clear
instructions from the Lord. The Atheist speaks for himself, but when
the
Xians speak for the Lord and do so errantly........I must rebuke them.
I
don't want to.......but it is my mission in life to set them straight.
The words of the Lord speak for themselves as I slink away unworthy of
such
wisdom.
I suspect the new oath will be "cross my heart and hope to die."
If it is wrong to swear by ones head, it would be equally as wrong to
swear
by ones heart. Christians and non-believers lie under oath every day!
The
oath they take has little to do with it.
The only resultant function of an oath on the Bible is to give illusian to
the liar that it is okay to lie so long as there is no oath.
So cabinet members and sometimes Presidents and snake oil salesmen of all
kinds appear before Congress and the people and lie easily, comforted by
the fact that they are not under oath. Cultures that live by the
lie...require oaths to assure them. To cultures that honored truth for
its
own sake......like most First American cultures......an oath seemed
redundant and silly. The responsibility of truth is always present, oath
or
no oath except to cultures that live mostly by the lie and untruth.
The oath perpetuates a culture of permissive untruth and missinformation.
When someone tells me, "I swear, Honest to God!" I take that as a warning
that they have lied in the past and are probably about to lie once again.
Honestly, how many times have you heard those words before and after a
huge
lie?
So with this prevailing oath, it becomes okay to lie to an old lady about
to
buy a car, or a house so long as it's not in writting, but it is not okay
to
lie to Judge or a jury! It becomes okay for a cop or FBI agent to lie to
a
person, but not okay for that person to lie back to the cop or FBI agent.
These Pharisees are consumed with situation ethics. Our whole culture
seems
unable to think for themselves to see what is obvious and written two
thousand years ago.
It's not the oath that keeps people from lying to the Judge but the
fear of purgery.
18 USc 1623. False declarations before grand jury or court
(a) Whoever under oath (or in any declaration, certificate,
verification, or statement under penalty of perjury as permitted under
section 1746 of title 28, United States Code) in any proceeding before
or ancillary to any court or grand jury of the United States knowingly
makes any false material declaration or makes or uses any other
information, including any book, paper, document, record, recording,
or other material, knowing the same to contain any false material
declaration, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more
than five years, or both.
I would agree; that was my point. The oath is just another hypocritical
ritual proscribed by Jesus and ignored by those who claim to follow him..
The Law is there, yet still they lie and lie freely when it serves them. It
is pretense and pomp!
Randy R. Cox
.
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| User: "NoSpamAllowed NoSpamAllowed" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
09 Jan 2005 11:24:46 PM |
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|
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:39:28 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net> wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
A twist of irony in the world of apostate Xians.... An atheist seeks to
enforce Biblical law and it goes unnoticed by those that profess to follow
that Book so profoundly...........and profanely and the faithless protester
alike.
From the Book that bears the hand of sworn oaths in America and directly
from the mouth of Jesus Christ: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
neither by heaven; for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his
footstool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black. But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for
whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 5:34-37
As for me, I have no dog in this fight, preferring to leave to Caesar things
that are Caesar's in this matter..........but the Atheist is theologically
correct on this one and those that resist him stand against the clear
instructions from the Lord. The Atheist speaks for himself, but when the
Xians speak for the Lord and do so errantly........I must rebuke them. I
don't want to.......but it is my mission in life to set them straight.
The words of the Lord speak for themselves as I slink away unworthy of such
wisdom.
Randy R. Cox
Skip it Randy--when did Christians read, or follow, any passages other than the
ones they already agreed with?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Whever you read something written by a Neocon/Rethuglican, remember,
they may brag about how great they are, but they ain't in Iraq. They
didn't volunteer for Iraq. The US military is reactiviting people in
their 70's, and the chickenshit who you are responding to, just like
George W. Bush, lacks the balls to actually volunteer to fight for
their country.
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Randy Cox" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
10 Jan 2005 04:45:21 AM |
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|
<NoSpamAllowed> wrote in message
news:db44u0li1clqprp1o9u2684cd69kkk2akv@4ax.com...
On Sun, 9 Jan 2005 18:39:28 -0600, "Randy Cox" <randd49@airmail.net>
wrote:
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
A twist of irony in the world of apostate Xians.... An atheist seeks to
enforce Biblical law and it goes unnoticed by those that profess to follow
that Book so profoundly...........and profanely and the faithless
protester
alike.
From the Book that bears the hand of sworn oaths in America and directly
from the mouth of Jesus Christ: "But I say unto you, Swear not at all;
neither by heaven; for it is God's throne; Nor by the earth; for it is his
footstool; neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair
white or black. But let your communication be Yea, yea; Nay, nay; for
whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."
Matthew 5:34-37
As for me, I have no dog in this fight, preferring to leave to Caesar
things
that are Caesar's in this matter..........but the Atheist is theologically
correct on this one and those that resist him stand against the clear
instructions from the Lord. The Atheist speaks for himself, but when the
Xians speak for the Lord and do so errantly........I must rebuke them. I
don't want to.......but it is my mission in life to set them straight.
The words of the Lord speak for themselves as I slink away unworthy of
such
wisdom.
Randy R. Cox
Skip it Randy--when did Christians read, or follow, any passages other
than the
ones they already agreed with?
Many are called; a few are chosen.
Randy R. Cox
.
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| User: "pain." |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 06:19:44 PM |
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Captain Compassion posted:
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
Not to mention defining our wars as crusades.
.
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| User: "NoSpamAllowed NoSpamAllowed" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 06:44:17 PM |
|
|
On 9 Jan 2005 00:19:44 GMT, "pain." <me@privacy.net> wrote:
Captain Compassion posted:
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
Not to mention defining our wars as crusades.
Sounds like the first honest thing Bush has done.
YEE-HAW!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! This is gonna be better than Spike TV!
Surf over to http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/ for some cool pics
of all the fun!
------------------------------------------------------------------
The undeniable truth of politics is that people always
get the government they deserve, whether it is Saddam
Hussein in Iraq or George W. Bush in the United States.
------------------------------------------------------------------
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| User: "Michael Ejercito" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
13 Jan 2005 12:13:37 PM |
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Captain Compassion wrote:
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God"
removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
If anyone doubts that we need tort reform, they should read this.
Michael
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| User: "The Pretzel" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 04:14:31 PM |
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GOOD.
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
"It is an offense of the highest magnitude that the leader of our
nation - while swearing to uphold the Constitution - publicly violates
that very document upon taking his oath of office," Mr. Newdow wrote
in his Dec. 17 filing. "The demands of strict scrutiny have not been
met, and defendants must be enjoined from their planned religious
activities."
The Constitution does not require the new president to place his
hand on a Bible while repeating the oath. The tradition has been kept
since George Washington - with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt,
who did not use a Bible when he took the oath after President William
McKinley's 1901 assassination.
The Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell delivered
Christian invocations at President Bush's 2001 inauguration. Inaugural
organizers have yet to announce who will pray this year, but they
confirmed there will be an invocation and a benediction by ministers
chosen by the president.
The White House and the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which is
one of three inaugural organizational bodies, declined to comment on
Mr. Newdow's actions but a response to his filing was due yesterday.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for Thursday, Mr. Newdow said.
Mr. Newdow's efforts are "part of a march toward removing every
vestige of religion from American public life," said Jay Sekulow,
chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a
D.C.-based public interest law firm.
"There is a progressive move toward secularism that we've got to
combat pretty aggressively," he said.
The center is filing an amicus brief in support of the defendants
in this case..
The legal debate centers on two Supreme Court cases - Marsh v.
Chambers in 1983 and Lee v. Weisman in 1992.
The argument in favor of prayer at the inauguration is based on
the establishment of chaplains in Congress at its inception, before
the Bill of Rights was passed prohibiting any "law respecting an
establishment of religion."
When the presence of chaplains in the Nebraska state legislature
was legally challenged in 1983 by Ernest Chambers, a Nebraska
lawmaker, the Supreme Court ruled against him, saying the practice had
a "special nook" because it was a long-standing practice to have
government-paid chaplains.
"The Supreme Court has given its constitutional blessing, so to
speak," said Mr. Sekulow. "We should not lose our history and the
religious underpinnings it is founded on."
However, Mr. Newdow makes a distinction between prayer in
government chambers and prayer at a presidential inauguration.
"This is the most important public ceremony we have in our public
existence, the inauguration," he said. "This is public, not just for"
lawmakers.
The presence of Christian influence and prayer, Mr. Newdow said,
have forced him to contemplate not using his ticket to the
inauguration because he does not want to feel like "an outsider."
Mr. Newdow filed a similar suit in the San-Francisco-based 9th
U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year. The court threw out the suit,
calling it "futile" and said that Mr. Newdow had not suffered "a
sufficiently concrete and specific injury," the Associated Press
reported.
Mr. Newdow first became a national figure when he argued before
the Supreme Court last March to remove the phrase "under God" from the
Pledge of Allegiance. The court dismissed his case on the grounds that
he could not represent his 10-year-old daughter, who is in the custody
of his ex-wife and believes in God.
In addition to his quest to remove Christian activities from the
inauguration, Mr. Newdow has renewed his quest to remove "under God"
from the pledge by filing a new suit in California federal court on
behalf of eight other parents.
Mr. Newdow is a licensed minister of atheism, though he says he
and members of his Internet church worship nobody. He says church
members instead encourage a way of thinking.
"Question everything," said Mr. Newdow, summing up his worldview.
"Be honest. Do what's right. Stand up for principle."
When asked how to determine what is right, Mr. Newdow said, "I use
my brain."
Mr. Newdow states in his complaint that he "sincerely believes
that there is no such thing as god, or God, or any supernatural
force." On the contrary, he believes "supernatural" is an oxymoron.
"Thus, plaintiff denies the existence of God."
The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values
Coalition, said Mr. Newdow's filing marks "the day we have been
warning America would come."
"Mr. Newdow should be ashamed for seeking this injunction against
his fellow citizens," he said. "We, as Americans, need to awaken and
deal with these threats to religious liberty, cynically disguised as
'civil liberties' defense."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
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| User: "NoSpamAllowed NoSpamAllowed" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 04:36:45 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:38:40 GMT, Captain Compassion
<res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
SWEET!!!!!
YEE-HAW!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! This is gonna be better than Spike TV!
Surf over to http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/ for some cool pics
of all the fun!
------------------------------------------------------------------
The undeniable truth of politics is that people always
get the government they deserve, whether it is Saddam
Hussein in Iraq or George W. Bush in the United States.
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Gogarty" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 06:07:00 PM |
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|
In article <q1o0u0dtfp2h879dif36p2fbm031hi9vuv@4ax.com>, NoSpamAllowed
says...
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:38:40 GMT, Captain Compassion
<res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Well, he won't get far with that one, for the simple reason that taking
an oath of office on the bible is not required. The Constitution says one
may swear (on the bible) or affirm. It's the office-holdfer's choice.
.
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| User: "DeserTBoB" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 11:42:50 PM |
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On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:38:40 GMT, Captain Compassion
<res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES <snip>
Oh, now THERE'S a source authority...NOT! That fat pig Tony Blankley
has NO journalism credentials at all. His only claim to fame is that
he was a hustler for Newt Gingrich. The "Goony Moonies" liked his
right wing rants and lack of fact, so they installed him as op/ed
editor. Jon Ward is one of his gofers.
dB
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| User: "Dave Simpson" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 11:09:18 PM |
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Ship the offender overseas ...
HASSAN CHOP!
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| User: "Sho Nuff" |
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| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 09:01:08 PM |
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This clown needs to go to Baghdad!!
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
"It is an offense of the highest magnitude that the leader of our
nation - while swearing to uphold the Constitution - publicly violates
that very document upon taking his oath of office," Mr. Newdow wrote
in his Dec. 17 filing. "The demands of strict scrutiny have not been
met, and defendants must be enjoined from their planned religious
activities."
The Constitution does not require the new president to place his
hand on a Bible while repeating the oath. The tradition has been kept
since George Washington - with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt,
who did not use a Bible when he took the oath after President William
McKinley's 1901 assassination.
The Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell delivered
Christian invocations at President Bush's 2001 inauguration. Inaugural
organizers have yet to announce who will pray this year, but they
confirmed there will be an invocation and a benediction by ministers
chosen by the president.
The White House and the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which is
one of three inaugural organizational bodies, declined to comment on
Mr. Newdow's actions but a response to his filing was due yesterday.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for Thursday, Mr. Newdow said.
Mr. Newdow's efforts are "part of a march toward removing every
vestige of religion from American public life," said Jay Sekulow,
chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a
D.C.-based public interest law firm.
"There is a progressive move toward secularism that we've got to
combat pretty aggressively," he said.
The center is filing an amicus brief in support of the defendants
in this case..
The legal debate centers on two Supreme Court cases - Marsh v.
Chambers in 1983 and Lee v. Weisman in 1992.
The argument in favor of prayer at the inauguration is based on
the establishment of chaplains in Congress at its inception, before
the Bill of Rights was passed prohibiting any "law respecting an
establishment of religion."
When the presence of chaplains in the Nebraska state legislature
was legally challenged in 1983 by Ernest Chambers, a Nebraska
lawmaker, the Supreme Court ruled against him, saying the practice had
a "special nook" because it was a long-standing practice to have
government-paid chaplains.
"The Supreme Court has given its constitutional blessing, so to
speak," said Mr. Sekulow. "We should not lose our history and the
religious underpinnings it is founded on."
However, Mr. Newdow makes a distinction between prayer in
government chambers and prayer at a presidential inauguration.
"This is the most important public ceremony we have in our public
existence, the inauguration," he said. "This is public, not just for"
lawmakers.
The presence of Christian influence and prayer, Mr. Newdow said,
have forced him to contemplate not using his ticket to the
inauguration because he does not want to feel like "an outsider."
Mr. Newdow filed a similar suit in the San-Francisco-based 9th
U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year. The court threw out the suit,
calling it "futile" and said that Mr. Newdow had not suffered "a
sufficiently concrete and specific injury," the Associated Press
reported.
Mr. Newdow first became a national figure when he argued before
the Supreme Court last March to remove the phrase "under God" from the
Pledge of Allegiance. The court dismissed his case on the grounds that
he could not represent his 10-year-old daughter, who is in the custody
of his ex-wife and believes in God.
In addition to his quest to remove Christian activities from the
inauguration, Mr. Newdow has renewed his quest to remove "under God"
from the pledge by filing a new suit in California federal court on
behalf of eight other parents.
Mr. Newdow is a licensed minister of atheism, though he says he
and members of his Internet church worship nobody. He says church
members instead encourage a way of thinking.
"Question everything," said Mr. Newdow, summing up his worldview.
"Be honest. Do what's right. Stand up for principle."
When asked how to determine what is right, Mr. Newdow said, "I use
my brain."
Mr. Newdow states in his complaint that he "sincerely believes
that there is no such thing as god, or God, or any supernatural
force." On the contrary, he believes "supernatural" is an oxymoron.
"Thus, plaintiff denies the existence of God."
The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values
Coalition, said Mr. Newdow's filing marks "the day we have been
warning America would come."
"Mr. Newdow should be ashamed for seeking this injunction against
his fellow citizens," he said. "We, as Americans, need to awaken and
deal with these threats to religious liberty, cynically disguised as
'civil liberties' defense."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
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| User: "NoSpamAllowed NoSpamAllowed" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 11:03:31 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 22:01:08 -0500, "Sho Nuff" <shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote:
This clown needs to go to Baghdad!!
Nah, they are almost as theocratic as we have become.
YEE-HAW!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! This is gonna be better than Spike TV!
Surf over to http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/ for some cool pics
of all the fun!
------------------------------------------------------------------
The undeniable truth of politics is that people always
get the government they deserve, whether it is Saddam
Hussein in Iraq or George W. Bush in the United States.
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Terrence Philips" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 06:27:43 PM |
|
|
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran, The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
"It is an offense of the highest magnitude that the leader of our
nation - while swearing to uphold the Constitution - publicly violates
that very document upon taking his oath of office," Mr. Newdow wrote
in his Dec. 17 filing. "The demands of strict scrutiny have not been
met, and defendants must be enjoined from their planned religious
activities."
The Constitution does not require the new president to place his
hand on a Bible while repeating the oath. The tradition has been kept
since George Washington - with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt,
who did not use a Bible when he took the oath after President William
McKinley's 1901 assassination.
The Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell delivered
Christian invocations at President Bush's 2001 inauguration. Inaugural
organizers have yet to announce who will pray this year, but they
confirmed there will be an invocation and a benediction by ministers
chosen by the president.
The White House and the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which is
one of three inaugural organizational bodies, declined to comment on
Mr. Newdow's actions but a response to his filing was due yesterday.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for Thursday, Mr. Newdow said.
Mr. Newdow's efforts are "part of a march toward removing every
vestige of religion from American public life," said Jay Sekulow,
chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a
D.C.-based public interest law firm.
"There is a progressive move toward secularism that we've got to
combat pretty aggressively," he said.
The center is filing an amicus brief in support of the defendants
in this case..
The legal debate centers on two Supreme Court cases - Marsh v.
Chambers in 1983 and Lee v. Weisman in 1992.
The argument in favor of prayer at the inauguration is based on
the establishment of chaplains in Congress at its inception, before
the Bill of Rights was passed prohibiting any "law respecting an
establishment of religion."
When the presence of chaplains in the Nebraska state legislature
was legally challenged in 1983 by Ernest Chambers, a Nebraska
lawmaker, the Supreme Court ruled against him, saying the practice had
a "special nook" because it was a long-standing practice to have
government-paid chaplains.
"The Supreme Court has given its constitutional blessing, so to
speak," said Mr. Sekulow. "We should not lose our history and the
religious underpinnings it is founded on."
However, Mr. Newdow makes a distinction between prayer in
government chambers and prayer at a presidential inauguration.
"This is the most important public ceremony we have in our public
existence, the inauguration," he said. "This is public, not just for"
lawmakers.
The presence of Christian influence and prayer, Mr. Newdow said,
have forced him to contemplate not using his ticket to the
inauguration because he does not want to feel like "an outsider."
Mr. Newdow filed a similar suit in the San-Francisco-based 9th
U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year. The court threw out the suit,
calling it "futile" and said that Mr. Newdow had not suffered "a
sufficiently concrete and specific injury," the Associated Press
reported.
Mr. Newdow first became a national figure when he argued before
the Supreme Court last March to remove the phrase "under God" from the
Pledge of Allegiance. The court dismissed his case on the grounds that
he could not represent his 10-year-old daughter, who is in the custody
of his ex-wife and believes in God.
In addition to his quest to remove Christian activities from the
inauguration, Mr. Newdow has renewed his quest to remove "under God"
from the pledge by filing a new suit in California federal court on
behalf of eight other parents.
Mr. Newdow is a licensed minister of atheism, though he says he
and members of his Internet church worship nobody. He says church
members instead encourage a way of thinking.
"Question everything," said Mr. Newdow, summing up his worldview.
"Be honest. Do what's right. Stand up for principle."
When asked how to determine what is right, Mr. Newdow said, "I use
my brain."
Mr. Newdow states in his complaint that he "sincerely believes
that there is no such thing as god, or God, or any supernatural
force." On the contrary, he believes "supernatural" is an oxymoron.
"Thus, plaintiff denies the existence of God."
The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values
Coalition, said Mr. Newdow's filing marks "the day we have been
warning America would come."
"Mr. Newdow should be ashamed for seeking this injunction against
his fellow citizens," he said. "We, as Americans, need to awaken and
deal with these threats to religious liberty, cynically disguised as
'civil liberties' defense."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "NoSpamAllowed NoSpamAllowed" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 06:47:39 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:27:43 -0800, "Terrence Philips" <Terrence@Philips.com>
wrote:
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran, The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
I am agnostic, so I want him to also use a copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to
the Galaxy.
Or a copy of "Hustler's Busty Beauties"
Either will do.
YEE-HAW!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! This is gonna be better than Spike TV!
Surf over to http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/ for some cool pics
of all the fun!
------------------------------------------------------------------
The undeniable truth of politics is that people always
get the government they deserve, whether it is Saddam
Hussein in Iraq or George W. Bush in the United States.
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 09:02:37 PM |
|
|
42
<NoSpamAllowed> wrote in message
news:hjv0u0hg9hhl640n7rt3thqv7fq8efp47f@4ax.com...
On Sat, 8 Jan 2005 16:27:43 -0800, "Terrence Philips"
<Terrence@Philips.com>
wrote:
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran,
The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
I am agnostic, so I want him to also use a copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide
to
the Galaxy.
Or a copy of "Hustler's Busty Beauties"
Either will do.
YEE-HAW!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! This is gonna be better than Spike TV!
Surf over to http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/ for some cool pics
of all the fun!
------------------------------------------------------------------
The undeniable truth of politics is that people always
get the government they deserve, whether it is Saddam
Hussein in Iraq or George W. Bush in the United States.
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Jeffrey Turner" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 07:30:16 PM |
|
|
Terrence Philips wrote:
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran, The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
Even better if he wore a hood and some electrodes.
--Jeff
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
"It is an offense of the highest magnitude that the leader of our
nation - while swearing to uphold the Constitution - publicly violates
that very document upon taking his oath of office," Mr. Newdow wrote
in his Dec. 17 filing. "The demands of strict scrutiny have not been
met, and defendants must be enjoined from their planned religious
activities."
The Constitution does not require the new president to place his
hand on a Bible while repeating the oath. The tradition has been kept
since George Washington - with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt,
who did not use a Bible when he took the oath after President William
McKinley's 1901 assassination.
The Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell delivered
Christian invocations at President Bush's 2001 inauguration. Inaugural
organizers have yet to announce who will pray this year, but they
confirmed there will be an invocation and a benediction by ministers
chosen by the president.
The White House and the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which is
one of three inaugural organizational bodies, declined to comment on
Mr. Newdow's actions but a response to his filing was due yesterday.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for Thursday, Mr. Newdow said.
Mr. Newdow's efforts are "part of a march toward removing every
vestige of religion from American public life," said Jay Sekulow,
chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a
D.C.-based public interest law firm.
"There is a progressive move toward secularism that we've got to
combat pretty aggressively," he said.
The center is filing an amicus brief in support of the defendants
in this case..
The legal debate centers on two Supreme Court cases - Marsh v.
Chambers in 1983 and Lee v. Weisman in 1992.
The argument in favor of prayer at the inauguration is based on
the establishment of chaplains in Congress at its inception, before
the Bill of Rights was passed prohibiting any "law respecting an
establishment of religion."
When the presence of chaplains in the Nebraska state legislature
was legally challenged in 1983 by Ernest Chambers, a Nebraska
lawmaker, the Supreme Court ruled against him, saying the practice had
a "special nook" because it was a long-standing practice to have
government-paid chaplains.
"The Supreme Court has given its constitutional blessing, so to
speak," said Mr. Sekulow. "We should not lose our history and the
religious underpinnings it is founded on."
However, Mr. Newdow makes a distinction between prayer in
government chambers and prayer at a presidential inauguration.
"This is the most important public ceremony we have in our public
existence, the inauguration," he said. "This is public, not just for"
lawmakers.
The presence of Christian influence and prayer, Mr. Newdow said,
have forced him to contemplate not using his ticket to the
inauguration because he does not want to feel like "an outsider."
Mr. Newdow filed a similar suit in the San-Francisco-based 9th
U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year. The court threw out the suit,
calling it "futile" and said that Mr. Newdow had not suffered "a
sufficiently concrete and specific injury," the Associated Press
reported.
Mr. Newdow first became a national figure when he argued before
the Supreme Court last March to remove the phrase "under God" from the
Pledge of Allegiance. The court dismissed his case on the grounds that
he could not represent his 10-year-old daughter, who is in the custody
of his ex-wife and believes in God.
In addition to his quest to remove Christian activities from the
inauguration, Mr. Newdow has renewed his quest to remove "under God"
from the pledge by filing a new suit in California federal court on
behalf of eight other parents.
Mr. Newdow is a licensed minister of atheism, though he says he
and members of his Internet church worship nobody. He says church
members instead encourage a way of thinking.
"Question everything," said Mr. Newdow, summing up his worldview.
"Be honest. Do what's right. Stand up for principle."
When asked how to determine what is right, Mr. Newdow said, "I use
my brain."
Mr. Newdow states in his complaint that he "sincerely believes
that there is no such thing as god, or God, or any supernatural
force." On the contrary, he believes "supernatural" is an oxymoron.
"Thus, plaintiff denies the existence of God."
The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values
Coalition, said Mr. Newdow's filing marks "the day we have been
warning America would come."
"Mr. Newdow should be ashamed for seeking this injunction against
his fellow citizens," he said. "We, as Americans, need to awaken and
deal with these threats to religious liberty, cynically disguised as
'civil liberties' defense."
--
It is only those who have neither
fired a shot nor heard the shrieks
and groans of the wounded who cry
aloud for blood, more vengeance, more
desolation. War is hell.
--William Tecumseh Sherman
In war, there are no unwounded soldiers.
--Jose Narosky
The urge to save humanity is almost
always a false front for the urge to
rule.
--H.L. Mencken
.
|
|
|
| User: "NoSpamAllowed NoSpamAllowed" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 08:25:16 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 20:30:16 -0500, Jeffrey Turner <jturner@localnet.com>
wrote:
Terrence Philips wrote:
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran, The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
Even better if he wore a hood and some electrodes.
I was about to say "on his balls", but then I remember Bush has none.
YEE-HAW!!!! FOUR MORE YEARS!!!! This is gonna be better than Spike TV!
Surf over to http://fallujapictures.blogspot.com/ for some cool pics
of all the fun!
------------------------------------------------------------------
The undeniable truth of politics is that people always
get the government they deserve, whether it is Saddam
Hussein in Iraq or George W. Bush in the United States.
------------------------------------------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
08 Jan 2005 09:02:24 PM |
|
|
The only problem with all that is that HE is a Christian! While protecting
all other faiths (which he does) he does NOT have to embrace all faiths.
"Terrence Philips" <Terrence@Philips.com> wrote in message
news:76edndqCfeiV533cRVn-jw@comcast.com...
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran,
The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
"It is an offense of the highest magnitude that the leader of our
nation - while swearing to uphold the Constitution - publicly violates
that very document upon taking his oath of office," Mr. Newdow wrote
in his Dec. 17 filing. "The demands of strict scrutiny have not been
met, and defendants must be enjoined from their planned religious
activities."
The Constitution does not require the new president to place his
hand on a Bible while repeating the oath. The tradition has been kept
since George Washington - with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt,
who did not use a Bible when he took the oath after President William
McKinley's 1901 assassination.
The Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell delivered
Christian invocations at President Bush's 2001 inauguration. Inaugural
organizers have yet to announce who will pray this year, but they
confirmed there will be an invocation and a benediction by ministers
chosen by the president.
The White House and the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which is
one of three inaugural organizational bodies, declined to comment on
Mr. Newdow's actions but a response to his filing was due yesterday.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for Thursday, Mr. Newdow said.
Mr. Newdow's efforts are "part of a march toward removing every
vestige of religion from American public life," said Jay Sekulow,
chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a
D.C.-based public interest law firm.
"There is a progressive move toward secularism that we've got to
combat pretty aggressively," he said.
The center is filing an amicus brief in support of the defendants
in this case..
The legal debate centers on two Supreme Court cases - Marsh v.
Chambers in 1983 and Lee v. Weisman in 1992.
The argument in favor of prayer at the inauguration is based on
the establishment of chaplains in Congress at its inception, before
the Bill of Rights was passed prohibiting any "law respecting an
establishment of religion."
When the presence of chaplains in the Nebraska state legislature
was legally challenged in 1983 by Ernest Chambers, a Nebraska
lawmaker, the Supreme Court ruled against him, saying the practice had
a "special nook" because it was a long-standing practice to have
government-paid chaplains.
"The Supreme Court has given its constitutional blessing, so to
speak," said Mr. Sekulow. "We should not lose our history and the
religious underpinnings it is founded on."
However, Mr. Newdow makes a distinction between prayer in
government chambers and prayer at a presidential inauguration.
"This is the most important public ceremony we have in our public
existence, the inauguration," he said. "This is public, not just for"
lawmakers.
The presence of Christian influence and prayer, Mr. Newdow said,
have forced him to contemplate not using his ticket to the
inauguration because he does not want to feel like "an outsider."
Mr. Newdow filed a similar suit in the San-Francisco-based 9th
U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year. The court threw out the suit,
calling it "futile" and said that Mr. Newdow had not suffered "a
sufficiently concrete and specific injury," the Associated Press
reported.
Mr. Newdow first became a national figure when he argued before
the Supreme Court last March to remove the phrase "under God" from the
Pledge of Allegiance. The court dismissed his case on the grounds that
he could not represent his 10-year-old daughter, who is in the custody
of his ex-wife and believes in God.
In addition to his quest to remove Christian activities from the
inauguration, Mr. Newdow has renewed his quest to remove "under God"
from the pledge by filing a new suit in California federal court on
behalf of eight other parents.
Mr. Newdow is a licensed minister of atheism, though he says he
and members of his Internet church worship nobody. He says church
members instead encourage a way of thinking.
"Question everything," said Mr. Newdow, summing up his worldview.
"Be honest. Do what's right. Stand up for principle."
When asked how to determine what is right, Mr. Newdow said, "I use
my brain."
Mr. Newdow states in his complaint that he "sincerely believes
that there is no such thing as god, or God, or any supernatural
force." On the contrary, he believes "supernatural" is an oxymoron.
"Thus, plaintiff denies the existence of God."
The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values
Coalition, said Mr. Newdow's filing marks "the day we have been
warning America would come."
"Mr. Newdow should be ashamed for seeking this injunction against
his fellow citizens," he said. "We, as Americans, need to awaken and
deal with these threats to religious liberty, cynically disguised as
'civil liberties' defense."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Terrence Philips" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
09 Jan 2005 03:41:03 PM |
|
|
Could you imagine the uproar in this country if a president swore in using
the Koran instead of the Bible? That's why it's better to keep religion out
of politics altogether. This is a diverse country and you can never make
everyone happy in this regard.
One of my favorite quotes is: "Drag God into politics, and you will ruin
his reputation in no time."
"Sho Nuff" <shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote in message
news:781Ed.22967$sf5.15697@lakeread05...
The only problem with all that is that HE is a Christian! While
protecting
all other faiths (which he does) he does NOT have to embrace all faiths.
"Terrence Philips" <Terrence@Philips.com> wrote in message
news:76edndqCfeiV533cRVn-jw@comcast.com...
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran,
The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing
some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing his hand on a Bible while being sworn in at his
inauguration.
Michael Newdow, an atheist doctor and lawyer from Sacramento, has
filed a complaint and a motion for preliminary injunction in U.S.
District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking to remove prayer
and all "Christian religious acts" from the Jan. 20 inauguration.
Mr. Newdow, 50, asserts that the presence of Christian ministers
who pray publicly at the inauguration, Christian songs and the
swearing of the oath of office while a president places a hand on the
Bible violates the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Such practices turn people "into second-class citizens and create
division on the basis of religion," he said yesterday.
"It is an offense of the highest magnitude that the leader of our
nation - while swearing to uphold the Constitution - publicly violates
that very document upon taking his oath of office," Mr. Newdow wrote
in his Dec. 17 filing. "The demands of strict scrutiny have not been
met, and defendants must be enjoined from their planned religious
activities."
The Constitution does not require the new president to place his
hand on a Bible while repeating the oath. The tradition has been kept
since George Washington - with the exception of Theodore Roosevelt,
who did not use a Bible when he took the oath after President William
McKinley's 1901 assassination.
The Revs. Franklin Graham and Kirbyjon Caldwell delivered
Christian invocations at President Bush's 2001 inauguration. Inaugural
organizers have yet to announce who will pray this year, but they
confirmed there will be an invocation and a benediction by ministers
chosen by the president.
The White House and the Presidential Inaugural Committee, which is
one of three inaugural organizational bodies, declined to comment on
Mr. Newdow's actions but a response to his filing was due yesterday.
A hearing in the case is scheduled for Thursday, Mr. Newdow said.
Mr. Newdow's efforts are "part of a march toward removing every
vestige of religion from American public life," said Jay Sekulow,
chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, a
D.C.-based public interest law firm.
"There is a progressive move toward secularism that we've got to
combat pretty aggressively," he said.
The center is filing an amicus brief in support of the defendants
in this case..
The legal debate centers on two Supreme Court cases - Marsh v.
Chambers in 1983 and Lee v. Weisman in 1992.
The argument in favor of prayer at the inauguration is based on
the establishment of chaplains in Congress at its inception, before
the Bill of Rights was passed prohibiting any "law respecting an
establishment of religion."
When the presence of chaplains in the Nebraska state legislature
was legally challenged in 1983 by Ernest Chambers, a Nebraska
lawmaker, the Supreme Court ruled against him, saying the practice had
a "special nook" because it was a long-standing practice to have
government-paid chaplains.
"The Supreme Court has given its constitutional blessing, so to
speak," said Mr. Sekulow. "We should not lose our history and the
religious underpinnings it is founded on."
However, Mr. Newdow makes a distinction between prayer in
government chambers and prayer at a presidential inauguration.
"This is the most important public ceremony we have in our public
existence, the inauguration," he said. "This is public, not just for"
lawmakers.
The presence of Christian influence and prayer, Mr. Newdow said,
have forced him to contemplate not using his ticket to the
inauguration because he does not want to feel like "an outsider."
Mr. Newdow filed a similar suit in the San-Francisco-based 9th
U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals last year. The court threw out the suit,
calling it "futile" and said that Mr. Newdow had not suffered "a
sufficiently concrete and specific injury," the Associated Press
reported.
Mr. Newdow first became a national figure when he argued before
the Supreme Court last March to remove the phrase "under God" from the
Pledge of Allegiance. The court dismissed his case on the grounds that
he could not represent his 10-year-old daughter, who is in the custody
of his ex-wife and believes in God.
In addition to his quest to remove Christian activities from the
inauguration, Mr. Newdow has renewed his quest to remove "under God"
from the pledge by filing a new suit in California federal court on
behalf of eight other parents.
Mr. Newdow is a licensed minister of atheism, though he says he
and members of his Internet church worship nobody. He says church
members instead encourage a way of thinking.
"Question everything," said Mr. Newdow, summing up his worldview.
"Be honest. Do what's right. Stand up for principle."
When asked how to determine what is right, Mr. Newdow said, "I use
my brain."
Mr. Newdow states in his complaint that he "sincerely believes
that there is no such thing as god, or God, or any supernatural
force." On the contrary, he believes "supernatural" is an oxymoron.
"Thus, plaintiff denies the existence of God."
The Rev. Louis P. Sheldon, chairman of the Traditional Values
Coalition, said Mr. Newdow's filing marks "the day we have been
warning America would come."
"Mr. Newdow should be ashamed for seeking this injunction against
his fellow citizens," he said. "We, as Americans, need to awaken and
deal with these threats to religious liberty, cynically disguised as
'civil liberties' defense."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Why would I listen to losers?" -- Arnold Schwarzenegger
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it
takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain
Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sho Nuff" |
|
| Title: Re: Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible |
11 Jan 2005 06:56:05 PM |
|
|
IF we are ever stupid to elect a Muslim, then, if Islam allows it, that
person would use the Koran if possible. Same if a Jew, only using the torah
and what ever else.
When one swears on the book of his god, the oath is sacred to that person
according to the teachings of the god involved. If one worshiped Windows,
the book would be one by Bill Gates, etc.
As long as the current constitution is around, the one swearing will be
bound to protect ALL religions regardless of what their own religion says.
THAT is what has happened so far.
"Terrence Philips" <Terrence@Philips.com> wrote in message
news:aI2dnbA_p8jkOXzcRVn-rg@comcast.com...
Could you imagine the uproar in this country if a president swore in using
the Koran instead of the Bible? That's why it's better to keep religion
out
of politics altogether. This is a diverse country and you can never make
everyone happy in this regard.
One of my favorite quotes is: "Drag God into politics, and you will ruin
his reputation in no time."
"Sho Nuff" <shonuff@papernapkin.net> wrote in message
news:781Ed.22967$sf5.15697@lakeread05...
The only problem with all that is that HE is a Christian! While
protecting
all other faiths (which he does) he does NOT have to embrace all faiths.
"Terrence Philips" <Terrence@Philips.com> wrote in message
news:76edndqCfeiV533cRVn-jw@comcast.com...
While swearing in, Bush should put his hand on the Bible, Torah, Koran,
The
Book of Mormon, Buddhist scrolls and the Bhagavad Gita while wearing
some
Native American religous symbols so that all of American's faiths are
represented. :)
"Captain Compassion" <res0mp8t@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:u2h0u0d382tnmk3iv2m55nfnu3leseg7kp@4ax.com...
Atheist sues to ban hand on Bible
By Jon Ward
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
The California lawyer who tried to have the phrase "under God" removed
from the Pledge of Allegiance now wants to legally prevent President
Bush from placing h | | | | |