Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Ron"
Date: 28 Aug 2004 08:26:05 AM
Object: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall
Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall
Dahlia Lithwick NYT
Friday, August 27, 2004

NEW YORK It has been four months since the photos from Abu Ghraib came to light, and we
Americans still can't decide what to make of them. Yes, they're appalling. But who's to
blame? With the release of two new reports this week, we still can't quite connect the
torture and abuse to the commander in chief or his defense secretary; we still can't quite
find that smoking gun.
Because there's never going to be a smoking gun.
If you're waiting around for evidence of the phone call from Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld to Private First Class Lynndie England - the one where he instructs her to pile
up a bunch of naked, hooded men and strike a queen-of-the-mountain pose - you'll wait
forever. That's not how armies function. It ignores the realities of the chain of command,
and the cha-cha of plausible deniability.
The report this week by the James Schlesinger panel offers the closest thing we'll get to
a smoking gun. Connect the dots, and it's all there: The sadism at Abu Ghraib stemmed from
"confusion." Confusion sounds accidental - like maybe it just blew in off the Atlantic -
but the report is clear that this confusion resulted from systemic failures at the highest
levels. The report faults ambiguous interrogation mandates, an inadequate postwar plan,
poor training and a lack of oversight. It notes that much of this confusion stemmed from
the Bush administration posture that the Geneva Conventions applied only where the
president saw fit, and that the definition of "interrogation" was up for grabs at
Guantánamo Bay, thus possibly at Abu Ghraib.
Or you can put your ear right up to the horse's mouth, where - even before the Schlesinger
report - Rumsfeld owned the blame. "These events occurred on my watch. As secretary of
defense, I am accountable for them and I take full responsibility," he told the Senate
Armed Services Committee in May. But we live in an era when such words are intended to
signify simultaneous culpability and absolution.
Schlesinger's insistence that Rumsfeld not leave office - because his departure would "be
a boon to all of America's enemies" - is a pragmatic argument. It doesn't even pretend to
be a just one.
Americans can choose to connect these dots, or cast their votes in November based on
whether Colonel Mustard was in a Swift boat with a lead pipe. But Abu Ghraib can't be
blamed solely on bad apples anymore. It was the direct consequence of an administration
ready to bargain away the rule of law. That started with the suspension of basic prisoner
protections because this was a "new kind of war." It led to the creation of a legal
sinkhole on Guantánamo. And it reached its zenith when high officials opined that torture
isn't torture unless there's some attendant organ failure.
There is a sad, familiar echo behind the Abu Ghraib prosecutions. This is precisely the
approach the administration has used throughout the so-called terror trials here in
America. Behind virtually every prosecution of an Al Qaeda member since Sept. 11, there's
been an overhyped, overcharged foot soldier taking the fall for his invisible superiors.
From the losers making up the so-called Portland Seven to the Virginia "jihad network,"
all we've achieved in America's courts is a lot of pretrial chest thumping by the Justice
Department, followed by relatively short sentences for a handful of malcontents who
watched training videos or played paintball.
The ranking terrorists we do catch? They disappear into yet more law-free zones for
further interrogation. The same intelligence-at-any-price culture that led the United
States to Abu Ghraib keeps the real terrorists from ever being held to account.
Such is the beauty of an army: The little guy can always get tagged as a proxy for the big
guy. Does any of this suffice as justice? In the terror trials, it must: We convict
low-level Qaeda members as ringleaders because we can't catch - or won't prosecute - their
bosses. It's not just, but it's satisfying. Convicting low-level American soldiers as
ringleaders to protect their bosses is neither just nor satisfying. It's just easy.
Dahlia Lithwick is a senior editor at the online magazine Slate.
Copyright © 2004 The International Herald Tribune | www.iht.com


.

User: "Docky Wocky"

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 02:30:52 PM
Dalia.
That's an Arabic name, ain't it?
.
User: "Jingo"

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 06:40:42 PM
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 19:30:52 GMT, "Docky Wocky" <mrchuck@lst.net>
wrote:

Dalia.

That's an Arabic name, ain't it?

Docky Wocky?
That's a right wing ***** name isn't it?
Jingo
***
"Five twenty-sevens - I think these ought to be outlawed. I think they should have been outlawed a year ago.
We have billionaires writing checks, large checks, to influence the outcome of the election."
--George "I signed the legislation into law" Bush
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/politics/campaign/27bush.html?pagewanted=print&position=
.


User: "El Loco"

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 09:03:05 AM
More lying rant against president Bush but not a single positive reason
to support J. "Fraud" Kerry.
=========
"Ron" <ron@aol.com> wrote in message news:bv11j0d0gfgidlel0139i8devvl5g5bftd@4ax.com...

Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall
Dahlia Lithwick NYT
Friday, August 27, 2004


NEW YORK It has been four months since the photos from Abu Ghraib came to light, and we
Americans still can't decide what to make of them. Yes, they're appalling. But who's to
blame? With the release of two new reports this week, we still can't quite connect the
torture and abuse to the commander in chief or his defense secretary; we still can't quite
find that smoking gun.

Because there's never going to be a smoking gun.

If you're waiting around for evidence of the phone call from Defense Secretary Donald
Rumsfeld to Private First Class Lynndie England - the one where he instructs her to pile
up a bunch of naked, hooded men and strike a queen-of-the-mountain pose - you'll wait
forever. That's not how armies function. It ignores the realities of the chain of command,
and the cha-cha of plausible deniability.

The report this week by the James Schlesinger panel offers the closest thing we'll get to
a smoking gun. Connect the dots, and it's all there: The sadism at Abu Ghraib stemmed from
"confusion." Confusion sounds accidental - like maybe it just blew in off the Atlantic -
but the report is clear that this confusion resulted from systemic failures at the highest
levels. The report faults ambiguous interrogation mandates, an inadequate postwar plan,
poor training and a lack of oversight. It notes that much of this confusion stemmed from
the Bush administration posture that the Geneva Conventions applied only where the
president saw fit, and that the definition of "interrogation" was up for grabs at
Guantánamo Bay, thus possibly at Abu Ghraib.

Or you can put your ear right up to the horse's mouth, where - even before the Schlesinger
report - Rumsfeld owned the blame. "These events occurred on my watch. As secretary of
defense, I am accountable for them and I take full responsibility," he told the Senate
Armed Services Committee in May. But we live in an era when such words are intended to
signify simultaneous culpability and absolution.

Schlesinger's insistence that Rumsfeld not leave office - because his departure would "be
a boon to all of America's enemies" - is a pragmatic argument. It doesn't even pretend to
be a just one.

Americans can choose to connect these dots, or cast their votes in November based on
whether Colonel Mustard was in a Swift boat with a lead pipe. But Abu Ghraib can't be
blamed solely on bad apples anymore. It was the direct consequence of an administration
ready to bargain away the rule of law. That started with the suspension of basic prisoner
protections because this was a "new kind of war." It led to the creation of a legal
sinkhole on Guantánamo. And it reached its zenith when high officials opined that torture
isn't torture unless there's some attendant organ failure.

There is a sad, familiar echo behind the Abu Ghraib prosecutions. This is precisely the
approach the administration has used throughout the so-called terror trials here in
America. Behind virtually every prosecution of an Al Qaeda member since Sept. 11, there's
been an overhyped, overcharged foot soldier taking the fall for his invisible superiors.
From the losers making up the so-called Portland Seven to the Virginia "jihad network,"
all we've achieved in America's courts is a lot of pretrial chest thumping by the Justice
Department, followed by relatively short sentences for a handful of malcontents who
watched training videos or played paintball.

The ranking terrorists we do catch? They disappear into yet more law-free zones for
further interrogation. The same intelligence-at-any-price culture that led the United
States to Abu Ghraib keeps the real terrorists from ever being held to account.

Such is the beauty of an army: The little guy can always get tagged as a proxy for the big
guy. Does any of this suffice as justice? In the terror trials, it must: We convict
low-level Qaeda members as ringleaders because we can't catch - or won't prosecute - their
bosses. It's not just, but it's satisfying. Convicting low-level American soldiers as
ringleaders to protect their bosses is neither just nor satisfying. It's just easy.

Dahlia Lithwick is a senior editor at the online magazine Slate.



Copyright © 2004 The International Herald Tribune | www.iht.com






.
User: ""

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 12:43:08 PM
On 28-Aug-2004, "El Loco" <el_loco_jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

More lying rant against president Bush but not a single positive reason
to support J. "Fraud" Kerry.

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/
Let's hear you debate the issues, then. Take a look at the comparison charts
for each of the 15 major issues that Kerry sets forth on his site. Tell me
who has the POSITIVE plan for America and Americans. We can't stand 4 more
years of corporate cronyism under Karl Rove and ***** Cheney.
.
User: "Jive-Ass Johnny"

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 12:55:58 PM
<peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org> wrote in message
news:10j1h1dp9fqfgae@corp.supernews.com...


On 28-Aug-2004, "El Loco" <el_loco_jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

More lying rant against president Bush but not a single positive reason
to support J. "Fraud" Kerry.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Let's hear you debate the issues, then. Take a look at the comparison

charts

for each of the 15 major issues that Kerry sets forth on his site. Tell me
who has the POSITIVE plan for America and Americans.

President Bush, obviously. But thanks for asking!
Hey, I looked at Johnny's "issue" page, and I found the following screed:
"John Kerry and John Edwards will fight to:
Expand Opportunity In Jobs, Education, And Health Care
Rigorously Enforce Our Civil Rights Laws
Make Immigration More Fair And More Secure
Ensure Equality For Americans With Disabilities"
While that SOUNDS all well and good, it raises the obvious question:
"Why didn't those two Johns fight for those things while they were in the
Senate??"
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 05:22:32 PM
On 28-Aug-2004, "Jive-***** Johnny" <KerryTheLiar@JohnKerry.com> wrote:

<peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org> wrote in message
news:10j1h1dp9fqfgae@corp.supernews.com...


On 28-Aug-2004, "El Loco" <el_loco_jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

More lying rant against president Bush but not a single positive
reason
to support J. "Fraud" Kerry.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Let's hear you debate the issues, then. Take a look at the comparison

charts

for each of the 15 major issues that Kerry sets forth on his site. Tell
me
who has the POSITIVE plan for America and Americans.



President Bush, obviously. But thanks for asking!


Hey, I looked at Johnny's "issue" page, and I found the following screed:


"John Kerry and John Edwards will fight to:

Expand Opportunity In Jobs, Education, And Health Care

Rigorously Enforce Our Civil Rights Laws

Make Immigration More Fair And More Secure

Ensure Equality For Americans With Disabilities"


While that SOUNDS all well and good, it raises the obvious question:


"Why didn't those two Johns fight for those things while they were in the
Senate??"

It DOES souind good doesn't it? Those are issues that speak to ordinary
Americans like you and me.
I think you will find that John Kerry and to a lesser extent, John Edwards,
has fought for those things all his career. Voter, another poster has
responded with a great link to check out Kerry's legislative record. Let's
start there to talk about this. Let's ignore what the TV and radio talking
heads are saying. They aren't discussing these things with us. They are
pandering to us for the benefit of their corporate bosses.
Then let's talk about Bush's accomplishments while president.
Then we can all vote on November 2nd with a clear conscience.
--
"You know I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation. I've
never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business.
But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public
office."
-- Dubya in 1989
.
User: "Jingo"

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 06:41:32 PM
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:22:32 GMT,

wrote:

On 28-Aug-2004, "Jive-***** Johnny" <KerryTheLiar@JohnKerry.com> wrote:

<

> wrote in message
news:10j1h1dp9fqfgae@corp.supernews.com...


On 28-Aug-2004, "El Loco" <el_loco_jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

More lying rant against president Bush but not a single positive
reason
to support J. "Fraud" Kerry.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Let's hear you debate the issues, then. Take a look at the comparison

charts

for each of the 15 major issues that Kerry sets forth on his site. Tell
me
who has the POSITIVE plan for America and Americans.



President Bush, obviously. But thanks for asking!


Hey, I looked at Johnny's "issue" page, and I found the following screed:


"John Kerry and John Edwards will fight to:

Expand Opportunity In Jobs, Education, And Health Care

Rigorously Enforce Our Civil Rights Laws

Make Immigration More Fair And More Secure

Ensure Equality For Americans With Disabilities"


While that SOUNDS all well and good, it raises the obvious question:


"Why didn't those two Johns fight for those things while they were in the
Senate??"


It DOES souind good doesn't it? Those are issues that speak to ordinary
Americans like you and me.

I think you will find that John Kerry and to a lesser extent, John Edwards,
has fought for those things all his career. Voter, another poster has
responded with a great link to check out Kerry's legislative record. Let's
start there to talk about this. Let's ignore what the TV and radio talking
heads are saying. They aren't discussing these things with us. They are
pandering to us for the benefit of their corporate bosses.

Then let's talk about Bush's accomplishments while president.

Then we can all vote on November 2nd with a clear conscience.

Read the details here.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/our_plan_for_america.pdf
Jingo
***
"Five twenty-sevens - I think these ought to be outlawed. I think they should have been outlawed a year ago.
We have billionaires writing checks, large checks, to influence the outcome of the election."
--George "I signed the legislation into law" Bush
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/politics/campaign/27bush.html?pagewanted=print&position=
.


User: "Voter"

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 02:52:06 PM
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:55:58 GMT, Jive-***** Johnny wrote:

<peeance.freeance@bayofgoats.org> wrote in message
news:10j1h1dp9fqfgae@corp.supernews.com...


On 28-Aug-2004, "El Loco" <el_loco_jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

More lying rant against president Bush but not a single positive reason
to support J. "Fraud" Kerry.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Let's hear you debate the issues, then. Take a look at the comparison

charts

for each of the 15 major issues that Kerry sets forth on his site. Tell me
who has the POSITIVE plan for America and Americans.



President Bush, obviously. But thanks for asking!


Hey, I looked at Johnny's "issue" page, and I found the following screed:


"John Kerry and John Edwards will fight to:

Expand Opportunity In Jobs, Education, And Health Care

Rigorously Enforce Our Civil Rights Laws

Make Immigration More Fair And More Secure

Ensure Equality For Americans With Disabilities"


While that SOUNDS all well and good, it raises the obvious question:


"Why didn't those two Johns fight for those things while they were in the
Senate??"

http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/issues/legislation.html#
.


User: "Jingo"

Title: Re: Bush and justice: Foot soldiers always take the fall 28 Aug 2004 06:40:00 PM
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:43:08 GMT,

wrote:


On 28-Aug-2004, "El Loco" <el_loco_jp@hotmail.com> wrote:

More lying rant against president Bush but not a single positive reason
to support J. "Fraud" Kerry.


http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

Let's hear you debate the issues, then. Take a look at the comparison charts
for each of the 15 major issues that Kerry sets forth on his site. Tell me
who has the POSITIVE plan for America and Americans. We can't stand 4 more
years of corporate cronyism under Karl Rove and ***** Cheney.

You can read the book here.
http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/our_plan_for_america.pdf
Jingo
***
"Five twenty-sevens - I think these ought to be outlawed. I think they should have been outlawed a year ago.
We have billionaires writing checks, large checks, to influence the outcome of the election."
--George "I signed the legislation into law" Bush
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/27/politics/campaign/27bush.html?pagewanted=print&position=
.




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