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And what might that be?

Their behaviour towards the Palestinians is probably the

greatest

outrage

to

most of the Arab world. In fact, bin Laden specifically named

Israel's

behaviour and America's support for this as one of the reasons

for

that

attack.

No he didn't. Bin Laden's main motivation for 9-11 was the

American

presence in Saudi Arabia after the first Gulf War.

I'm afraid he did. You obviously haven't been following this

subject.

He

named two reasons. American presence in the land of the two holy

places

and

Israel's treatment of the Palestinians.

That's not how it was reported immediately after 9/11 occurred.

I don't care how it was reported. The state of America's media is not

excuse. You've had plenty of opportunity to educate yourself.

Sorry, I don't have access to whatever Pallie propaganda rags you read

England. Here in the USA, the media reports the truth.

That's the funniest thing I've read on here in ages. The American media
reports the truth? Yeah, I'll be sure to check what Fox thinks before I

my mind up.

Bin Laden's

only gripe was the American presence in Saudi Arabia. Otherwise,

would

you explain that none of the terrorist episodes in Israel were ever

linked

to Al Qaeda?

Because al Quada aren't in Israel. Although they do abhor Israel's
behaviour. All Arabs do, in fact, most of the world does.

Well, Al Qaeda wasn't "in America" on 9/11 either. Yet they managed to
attack there, after sending in their goons to do the job.

I'm afraid al Quada were in America (and probably still are) that's how

were attacked.

Later on, Bin Laden, being the opportunist he is, started including

Israel

in his rhetoric.

Palestine is the number one issue in the Arab world and has been for

last fifty years. How could they not include it?

I'm not saying it wasn't one of the motivations. I am saying that it

wasn't

reported as the main reason for 9/11.

So we, at last, can agree that Palestine is a motivation for 9-11. Thank
you.

<begin sarcasm> And the nerve of those Israelis, defending

themselves

against Palestinian terrorism. If I were an Arab, I'd be

too.

<end sarcasm>

The Israelis aren't defending themselves against terrorism, they

fighting to maintain colonial rule. You sound like the British and

should

know, I'm British.

Colonial rule? Well, I guess you Brits would know all about that,

wouldn't

you? :-) (By the way, I'm American).

Yes, it is colonial rule. They are trying to oppress another people.

No they're not! You can put whatever spin you want on it, but all they

are

doing is asserting their right to exist. And this is a right given by

your

idols, the UN.

Israel's right to exist has been conceded by most Arab nations. Israel

now concede the right for a state of Palestine, which I notice Likud voted
last year NEVER to recognise.

Israel does not need the West Bank and Gaza in order to exist. You are
trying to justify a land steal by claiming it is essential to the state's
survival which is, at best, dishonest.

Look, this is a war. Nothing less than war. In war, you do what you

to do to ensure your survival. And please do note, that Israel didn't
declare this war. The Arab League declared this war in 1948, and lost 4
major battles of that war in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973.

Since that time, the Arab League has fought this war by proxy using the
"Palestinians" as their pawns. Yeah, a peace treaty was signed with

and Jordan since then, but Israel is still technically at war with

which has IJ and Hamas training centers.

You obviously need to read up on the history of the region. We're

talking about the last three years since the Initfada began.

I never said we were. The truth is that for most of the last two

millenia

there has been a negligable number of Jews in that area. And I know of

no

concept under international law where we create states simply because

they

once existed two thousand years before. Can you name any other?

Ummmm... yes. The UN. The British Mandate. All recognized under
international law.

You're avoiding answering my question. Can you name another nation that

formed because it once existed 2,000 years ago?

We're talking

about the past 100 years or so.

Here's a good link for starters:

http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

It's biased pro-Israeli rubbish.

Yeah, figures you would say that. Those who are blind to the truth are
..... blind.

Don't refer me to biased web sites, make your own arguments, if you have
one.

The American people haven't yet joined the dots as they are

such

pro-Israeli rubbish on this subject. But more and more are

starting

to

question what's being done in the Occupied territories.

Ummmm... there are NO occupied territories, only disputed ones.

Read any UN resolution. No talk of dispute, plenty of talk of

occupation.

This link should dispel any crediblity that the UN ever had:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=1833

No, the link doesn't destroy any UN credibility. Understand that the

rest

of

the world does not see this dispute through the pro-Israeli spectacles

that

you seem to be wearing.

Well, then I must assert that the rest of the world is WRONG! Yes, Kofi
Annan, it's true. The whole fucking world is wrong.

The rest of the world is NOT wrong. Israel does not need the West Bank and
Gaza in order to exist.

And it's all because

that the rest of the world only hears the Pallie point of view and

doesn't have access to the Israeli point of view, or doesn't want to

listen

to the Israeli point of view.

We do hear the Israeli point of view, but we find it fundamentally flawed

it seems to be saying that any attempt to make it give back the West Bank
and Gaza is an attempt to destroy the State of Israel. This is nonsense.

accept Israel's right to exist. Israel must now accept the right of a

of Palestine to exist. That's reasonable. Your position is not.

Wonder why that is? Hmmmm...... let me guess......

And now, eventually and predictably, we have the casual inference that
anyone who disagrees with you must be anti-Semetic. Pathetic.

After the Holocaust the world agreed that the Jews should have a

The

Zionists agreed and agreed to Israel's borders. They have since tried

welch on the deal and grab the lot for themselves. The world won't

it.

Not true at all. The Zionists agreed to Israel's borders, and the Arab
states showed their agreement by immediately invading the new state in

hopes

of destroying it.

That's true. However, we are not going to fix the problem by concentrating
on who did what fifty years ago. The Saudi Peace Plan offered Israel FULL
recognition by ALL Arab states if only Israel would obey resolution 242.
Israel refused. So who's being unreasonable here?

I also notice that your one of the anti-UN brigade. Yet Bush is back

there

asking for help in Iraq.

Just going through the channels. Because if he doesn't ask the UN

that way he can say (after they inevitably refuse to give help) that he
tried to get cooperation.

He's not just "going through the channels" and you know it. He needs their
support to ward off the genuine concerns of the American public who are
deserting him in droves. He has an election next year.

Useful when you need it, is it? Ignore it the rest

of the time? And no country worked harder to create the UN than the

states.

You hate it because you refuse to look at Israel fairly. The truth is

Israel

is wrong and the rest of the world is right.

Ha ha. Wrong.

And besides, doing whatever is needed to ensure a nation's survival will
ALWAYS come before whatever "international law" says.

Oh, so you back Saddam then I take it? Or is ignoring International Law
something that you only condone when it's done by Israel?

So, Israel, if they

are smart, will at the minimum continue doing whatever is needed to

her survival. If the rest of the world doesn't like it, they can go

themselves. Period.

I repeat, holding on to the West Bank and Gaza is not essential to the
survival of Israel. You are being totally dishonest to even suggest that.