kuff (Isaac Adams) wrote:

"ArKLyte_" <ArkLyte_@Now.Net> wrote in message
news:m504g0tsqrbob8m1at2ppo603iogcsmck4@4ax.com...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040723-082950-9083r.htm

CAIR and terrorism

Published July 24, 2004

...

In April, Randall Royer of Fairfax was sentenced to 20 years by a
federal judge after pleading guilty to using and discharging a firearm
during a crime of violence, and carrying an explosive during the
commission of a felony,

Finally, a real crime. At least the whole article wasn't blather.

...

kuff your desire to defend Islam and anything connected to it regardless
of how ridiculous it makes you look is both laughable and admirable.

Abdelkarim Benoit Evans <kevans@videotron.ca> wrote in message
news:<kevans-60AD1C.10420324072004@news.videotron.net>...

In article <m504g0tsqrbob8m1at2ppo603iogcsmck4@4ax.com>,
ArKLyte_ <ArkLyte_@Now.Net> wrote:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040723-082950-9083r.htm

CAIR and terrorism

Published July 24, 2004

Earlier this month, five Palestinian brothers were convicted in
federal court of conspiring to use their Texas-based computer company
to make illegal shipments of high-tech goods to Libya and Syria, two
nations the State Department considers sponsors of terrorism. One of
the brothers, Ghassan Elashi, the company's vice president of
international marketing, was convicted of three counts of conspiracy,
one count of money laundering and two counts of making false
statements about the shipments. Mr. Elashi, along with two of his
brothers, also faces a separate federal trial on charges relating to
business dealings with Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy political leader
of the terrorist organization Hamas. Mr. Elashi is also the founding
board member of a Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) chapter
in Texas, according to the Dallas Morning News. In February 2003, the
Muslim Legal Fund held a fund-raiser for the Elashi brothers, hoping
to raise $500,000 for their defense. As the Morning News reported
then, two of the Fund's board of directors had ties to CAIR.

In April, Randall Royer of Fairfax was sentenced to 20 years by a
federal judge after pleading guilty to using and discharging a firearm
during a crime of violence, and carrying an explosive during the
commission of a felony, reports Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle
East Forum. (Mr. Pipes has been following many of the cases here
related on his Web log, www.danielpipes.org.) Royer was arrested a
year ago on charges of conspiring to join the Pakistani group
Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is on the State Department's list of terrorist
organizations, as well as weapons charges (an AK-47-style assault
rifle was found in his car along with 200 rounds of ammunition upon
his arrest). Royer had been CAIR's communications director and
civil-rights coordinator.

In September, Bassem Khafagi pled guilty to charges of making false
statements on his visa application and bank fraud. He had been charged
with funneling money to promote terrorist activities through the
Islamic Assembly of North America (IANA), of which he was a founding
member. The Washington Post reported in October that federal
prosecutors described IANA's objective as the "dissemination of
radical Islamic ideology, the purpose of which was indoctrination,
recruitment of members and the instigation of acts of violence and
terrorism."

In January, the Syracuse Post-Standard revealed that Khafagi also had
business ties to Rafil Dhafir, who has been accused of illegally
sending money to Iraq. Dhafir is also a former vice president of IANA.
Khafagi was sentenced to 10 months in prison and deported to Egypt. At
the time of his arrest, Khafagi was a community affairs director of
CAIR.

Last July, Rabih Haddad was deported to Lebanon after being arrested
and held by federal agents during a raid on the Global Relief
Foundation, which billed itself as a charitable organization.
According to the Treasury Department the organization "has connections
to, has provided support for, and has provided assistance to Osama bin
Laden, the al-Qaeda network, and other known terrorist groups." A
co-founder of the Global Relief Foundation, Haddad was also a
fund-raiser for the Ann Arbor CAIR chapter. Following the September 11
attacks, CAIR had a link on its Web site for persons to donate through
the Global Relief Foundation. After federal agents shut down Global
Relief in December 2001, CAIR removed the link from its Web site,
according to Frontpagemag.com.

Also in December 2001, federal agents shut down the Holy Land
Foundation for Relief and Development, an Islamic "charity," for
raising millions of dollars for Hamas. In the aftermath of September
11, CAIR featured the Holy Land Foundation on its Web site. The Holy
Land Foundation was founded by Hamas deputy Marzook (who is now
believed to be in Syria). Ghassan Elashi was once its chairman.

Considering all of the above, it's little wonder that a cloud of
suspicion has hung over CAIR since September 11. The Washington-based
organization, which has described itself as a "Muslim NAACP," does
itself no favors by failing to condemn these criminals when they are
convicted; indeed, in numerous cases, it has continued to actively
defend them. After the Elashi convictions, for example, Khalil Meek,
who serves on the board of directors of the Dallas-Fort Worth chapter
of CAIR, said: "We believe that these convictions indicate a growing
disparity and climate of injustice for Muslims, who we feel are being
selectively prosecuted and given unfair sentences precisely because
they are Muslim or Arab ... This is not justice." CAIR also labeled
the government's handling of the Royer case "draconian." Such
statements are part of CAIR's dishonest campaign to create the sense
of a widespread inquisition against Muslims and Arabs in America that
simply doesn't exist.

Thank you for publishing this excellent example of what is meant by the
expression "guilt by association".

Guilt by association, also known as the bad company fallacy or the
company that you keep fallacy, is the logical fallacy of claiming that
something MUST be false because of the people or organisations who
support it. It is the attribution of guilt to a person or group because
someone associated with that person or group is guilty.

Example:

Atheism must be wrong, because Karl Marx and Stalin were atheists, and
just look at them.

Translated to the present context, the example of the logical fallacy
called "guilt by association" would be:

CAIR must be bad, because several people involved with CAIR have been
convicted of crimes.

Similarly:

The Republican party is evil because President Richard Nixon and
Vice-President Spiro Agnew were Republicans; one obstructed justice in
the Watergate affair and the other was confessed tax evader. After all,
those guys were not just ordinary Republicans; they were major figures
in the party.

Similarly:

The local battered women's shelter is an evil place that should be
closed because John Doe a member of its board of directors has been
found guilty of murdering his wife.

We understand that no organization can be responsible for the
independent actions of its officials or affiliated members. To its
credit, CAIR has denounced terrorist acts, most recently the
beheadings of two Americans in Iraq. At the same time, the examples
cited above reveal some unsettling connections between certain CAIR
officials and extremist groups that demand at a minimum an internal
investigation. The federal government has not yet turned its
"draconian" reach on CAIR directly, and at this point we are not
prepared to ask it to do so. For now, it would be better if CAIR
itself began a conscientious and deliberate effort to purge members it
believes have terrorist ties and to thoroughly condemn those already
convicted.

Thank you for another excellent example--this time of what is called
"damning with faint praise" (critcize indirectly by giving a slight
compliment).

What crap. You accuse them of "guilt by association", then they
specifically state "We understand that no organization can be
responsible for the independent actions of its officials or
affiliated members," you claim that's "damning with faint praise."

www.washingtontimes.com is asking CAIR for an internal investigation
after high level people (Ghassan Elashi, Randall Royer, Bassem
Khafagi) were found engaged in wrong doing. Do you have any reason
CAIR should not do what www.washingtontimes.com is asking for?

Here CAIR is given credit for some of its actions but that compliment is
used as an introduction to a critcism for not doing what the author
thinks they should do.

If you want to damn CAIR, bring forth the evidence that CAIR or people
acting for CAIR, on behalf of CAIR, as official representatives of CAIR
have done reprehensible things.

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 10:42:03 -0400, Abdelkarim Benoit Evans
<kevans@videotron.ca> wrote:

In article <m504g0tsqrbob8m1at2ppo603iogcsmck4@4ax.com>,
ArKLyte_ <ArkLyte_@Now.Net> wrote:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/op-ed/20040723-082950-9083r.htm

CAIR and terrorism

Published July 24, 2004


Earlier this month, five Palestinian brothers were convicted in
federal court of conspiring to use their Texas-based computer company
to make illegal shipments of high-tech goods to Libya and Syria, two
nations the State Department considers sponsors of terrorism. One of
the brothers, Ghassan Elashi, the company's vice president of
international marketing, was convicted of three counts of conspiracy,
one count of money laundering and two counts of making false
statements about the shipments. Mr. Elashi, along with two of his
brothers, also faces a separate federal trial on charges relating to
business dealings with Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy political leader
of the terrorist organization Hamas. Mr. Elashi is also the founding
board member of a Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) chapter
in Texas, according to the Dallas Morning News. In February 2003, the
Muslim Legal Fund held a fund-raiser for the Elashi brothers, hoping
to raise $500,000 for their defense. As the Morning News reported
then, two of the Fund's board of directors had ties to CAIR.

In April, Randall Royer of Fairfax was sentenced to 20 years by a
federal judge after pleading guilty to using and discharging a firearm
during a crime of violence, and carrying an explosive during the
commission of a felony, reports Daniel Pipes, director of the Middle
East Forum. (Mr. Pipes has been following many of the cases here
related on his Web log, www.danielpipes.org.) Royer was arrested a
year ago on charges of conspiring to join the Pakistani group
Lashkar-e-Taiba, which is on the State Department's list of terrorist
organizations, as well as weapons charges (an AK-47-style assault
rifle was found in his car along with 200 rounds of ammunition upon
his arrest). Royer had been CAIR's communications director and
civil-rights coordinator.

In September, Bassem Khafagi pled guilty to charges of making false
statements on his visa application and bank fraud. He had been charged
with funneling money to promote terrorist activities through the
Islamic Assembly of North America (IANA), of which he was a founding
member. The Washington Post reported in October that federal
prosecutors described IANA's objective as the "dissemination of
radical Islamic ideology, the purpose of which was indoctrination,
recruitment of members and the instigation of acts of violence and
terrorism."

In January, the Syracuse Post-Standard revealed that Khafagi also had
business ties to Rafil Dhafir, who has been accused of illegally
sending money to Iraq. Dhafir is also a former vice president of IANA.
Khafagi was sentenced to 10 months in prison and deported to Egypt. At
the time of his arrest, Khafagi was a community affairs director of
CAIR.

Last July, Rabih Haddad was deported to Lebanon after being arrested
and held by federal agents during a raid on the Global Relief
Foundation, which billed itself as a charitable organization.
According to the Treasury Department the organization "has connections
to, has provided support for, and has provided assistance to Osama bin
Laden, the al-Qaeda network, and other known terrorist groups." A
co-founder of the Global Relief Foundation, Haddad was also a
fund-raiser for the Ann Arbor CAIR chapter. Following the September 11
attacks, CAIR had a link on its Web site for persons to donate through
the Global Relief Foundation. After federal agents shut down Global
Relief in December 2001, CAIR removed the link from its Web site,
according to Frontpagemag.com.

Also in December 2001, federal agents shut down the Holy Land
Foundation for Relief and Development, an Islamic "charity," for
raising millions of dollars for Hamas. In the aftermath of September
11, CAIR featured the Holy Land Foundation on its Web site. The Holy
Land Foundation was founded by Hamas deputy Marzook (who is now
believed to be in Syria). Ghassan Elashi was once its chairman.

Considering all of the above, it's little wonder that a cloud of
suspicion has hung over CAIR since September 11. The Washington-based
organization, which has described itself as a "Muslim NAACP," does
itself no favors by failing to condemn these criminals when they are
convicted; indeed, in numerous cases, it has continued to actively
defend them. After the Elashi convictions, for example, Khalil Meek,
who serves on the board of directors of the Dallas-Fort Worth chapter
of CAIR, said: "We believe that these convictions indicate a growing
disparity and climate of injustice for Muslims, who we feel are being
selectively prosecuted and given unfair sentences precisely because
they are Muslim or Arab ... This is not justice." CAIR also labeled
the government's handling of the Royer case "draconian." Such
statements are part of CAIR's dishonest campaign to create the sense
of a widespread inquisition against Muslims and Arabs in America that
simply doesn't exist.

Thank you for publishing this excellent example of what is meant by the
expression "guilt by association".

Guilt by association, also known as the bad company fallacy or the
company that you keep fallacy, is the logical fallacy of claiming that
something MUST be false because of the people or organisations who
support it. It is the attribution of guilt to a person or group because
someone associated with that person or group is guilty.

Example:

Atheism must be wrong, because Karl Marx and Stalin were atheists, and
just look at them.

Translated to the present context, the example of the logical fallacy
called "guilt by association" would be:

CAIR must be bad, because several people involved with CAIR have been
convicted of crimes.

Bad analogy. CAIR is an association with an agenda. We are talking
about a FOUNDING MEMBER and a DIRECTOR, amongst others, who certainly
must have at least partly established that agenda. Neither Marx nor
Stalin were founding atheists nor directors of atheism, and did not
establish an agenda for atheism. The ideologies for which they did
establish an agenda have been demonstrated as "bad".

Your analogy would be fine as:

Islam must be bad, because several people involved with CAIR have been
convicted of crimes.

The examples in the article prove CAIR is a danger and should be
banned, period.

Similarly:

The Republican party is evil because President Richard Nixon and
Vice-President Spiro Agnew were Republicans; one obstructed justice in
the Watergate affair and the other was confessed tax evader. After all,
those guys were not just ordinary Republicans; they were major figures
in the party.

Not similar. See above.

Similarly:

The local battered women's shelter is an evil place that should be
closed because John Doe a member of its board of directors has been
found guilty of murdering his wife.

Not similar. See above.

We understand that no organization can be responsible for the
independent actions of its officials or affiliated members. To its
credit, CAIR has denounced terrorist acts, most recently the
beheadings of two Americans in Iraq. At the same time, the examples
cited above reveal some unsettling connections between certain CAIR
officials and extremist groups that demand at a minimum an internal
investigation. The federal government has not yet turned its
"draconian" reach on CAIR directly, and at this point we are not
prepared to ask it to do so. For now, it would be better if CAIR
itself began a conscientious and deliberate effort to purge members it
believes have terrorist ties and to thoroughly condemn those already
convicted.

Thank you for another excellent example--this time of what is called
"damning with faint praise" (critcize indirectly by giving a slight
compliment).

Here CAIR is given credit for some of its actions but that compliment is
used as an introduction to a critcism for not doing what the author
thinks they should do.

Because it is obvious that CAIR needs to make some conciliatory
statements in order to survive. So does Saudi Arabia.

If you want to damn CAIR, bring forth the evidence that CAIR or people
acting for CAIR, on behalf of CAIR, as official representatives of CAIR
have done reprehensible things.

Do you know the meaning of "founding" and "director"? If so, please
reread the article.