| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
21 May 2007 03:00:26 PM |
| Object: |
CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
Yup.........Ol' Jimmy Carter has LOST IT............The Old *****'s
Marbles are Falling All Over The Place...........Heehee.........
"Carter Says Remarks on Bush 'Careless'
May 21 01:43 PM US/Eastern
ATLANTA (AP) - Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday his remarks
were "careless or misinterpreted" "
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| User: "Brian Bernardini" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
21 May 2007 03:23:13 PM |
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In article <1179777626.058737.70710@36g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
"theloneranger100@aol.com" <ScreenRanger100@aol.com> wrote:
Yup.........Ol' Jimmy Carter has LOST IT............The Old *****'s
Marbles are Falling All Over The Place...........Heehee.........
"Carter Says Remarks on Bush 'Careless'
May 21 01:43 PM US/Eastern
ATLANTA (AP) - Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday his remarks
were "careless or misinterpreted" "
At least he has some marbles, unlike you or your hero.
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| User: "THX1138" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
22 May 2007 07:16:41 AM |
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On May 21, 4:23 pm, Brian Bernardini <bbernarWOOOAHd...@comcast.net>
wrote:
In article <1179777626.058737.70...@36g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
"theloneranger...@aol.com" <ScreenRanger...@aol.com> wrote:
Yup.........Ol' Jimmy Carter has LOST IT............The Old *****'s
Marbles are Falling All Over The Place...........Heehee.........
"Carter Says Remarks on Bush 'Careless'
May 21 01:43 PM US/Eastern
ATLANTA (AP) - Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday his remarks
were "careless or misinterpreted" "
At least he has some marbles, unlike you or your hero.
really? how do you figure?
Carter never had and never will have any balls like Bush does.
Carter didnt have the balls to get the hostages in Iran. He had to let
Reagan do his
job.
This is why I get scared when a democrat is in the white house. They
dont have the balls
to defend our country.
How about the economy? Was "great" under carter wasnt it?......Not!
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| User: "Mark Donovan" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
22 May 2007 11:35:09 AM |
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"THX1138" <xxxTHX1138xxx@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179836201.155405.310700@y2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On May 21, 4:23 pm, Brian Bernardini <bbernarWOOOAHd...@comcast.net>
wrote:
In article <1179777626.058737.70...@36g2000prm.googlegroups.com>,
"theloneranger...@aol.com" <ScreenRanger...@aol.com> wrote:
Yup.........Ol' Jimmy Carter has LOST IT............The Old *****'s
Marbles are Falling All Over The Place...........Heehee.........
"Carter Says Remarks on Bush 'Careless'
May 21 01:43 PM US/Eastern
ATLANTA (AP) - Former President Jimmy Carter said Monday his remarks
were "careless or misinterpreted" "
At least he has some marbles, unlike you or your hero.
Agreed. Bush has balls, Carter has brains. You have balls.
M.D.
really? how do you figure?
Carter never had and never will have any balls like Bush does.
Carter didnt have the balls to get the hostages in Iran. He had to let
Reagan do his
job.
This is why I get scared when a democrat is in the white house. They
dont have the balls
to defend our country.
How about the economy? Was "great" under carter wasnt it?......Not!
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
22 May 2007 09:29:34 AM |
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THX1138 wrote:
Carter didnt have the balls to get the hostages in Iran. He had to let
Reagan do his
job.
The hostages in Iran were released just as Reagan was being sworn in. If
Raygun or Bushleague the first actually did get them released or delayed
them being released, they were acting without official cover or indeed
likely illegally. Are you sure you want to claim that?
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| User: "KK" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
22 May 2007 09:40:52 AM |
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On Tue, 22 May 2007 10:29:34 -0400, Art Clemons wrote:
THX1138 wrote:
Carter didnt have the balls to get the hostages in Iran. He had to let
Reagan do his
job.
The hostages in Iran were released just as Reagan was being sworn in. If
Raygun or Bushleague the first actually did get them released or delayed
them being released, they were acting without official cover or indeed
likely illegally. Are you sure you want to claim that?
We're not talking about them. Carter had them languish for a year plus
with only our aborted helicopter rescue - an embarrassment.
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
22 May 2007 09:58:03 AM |
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KK wrote:
THX1138 wrote:
Carter didnt have the balls to get the hostages in Iran. He had to let
Reagan do his
job.
The hostages in Iran were released just as Reagan was being sworn in. If
Raygun or Bushleague the first actually did get them released or delayed
them being released, they were acting without official cover or indeed
likely illegally. Are you sure you want to claim that?
We're not talking about them. Carter had them languish for a year plus
with only our aborted helicopter rescue - an embarrassment.
Uh did you read what I quoted, namely "He had to let Reagan do his job."?
What am I missing if he's not claiming that Raygun got the hostages back
because Carter could not? The only other choice was an invasion of Iran to
get them back, that would have been wonderful with lots of casualties and
little likelihood of recovering them.
Before you tell me how good Reagan was, remember his memorable retreat in
Lebanon when the Marines were killed.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
22 May 2007 11:30:21 AM |
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On Tue, 22 May 2007 10:58:03 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
KK wrote:
THX1138 wrote:
Carter didnt have the balls to get the hostages in Iran. He had to let
Reagan do his
job.
The hostages in Iran were released just as Reagan was being sworn in. ÊIf
Raygun or Bushleague the first actually did get them released or delayed
them being released, they were acting without official cover or indeed
likely illegally. ÊAre you sure you want to claim that?
We're not talking about them. ÊCarter had them languish for a year plus
with only our aborted helicopter rescue - an embarrassment.
Uh did you read what I quoted, namely "He had to let Reagan do his job."?
What am I missing if he's not claiming that Raygun got the hostages back
because Carter could not? The only other choice was an invasion of Iran to
get them back, that would have been wonderful with lots of casualties and
little likelihood of recovering them.
Then how did they get released? Let me tell you, Iran knew that
Carter was a LIBERAL *****. Liberal pussies get walked all over by
people in the middle east because they only know war. If Carter were
re-elected, those people would have remained in Iran until he was
gone, or longer in the unlikely event another Democrat was elected.
Now, flash forward to 2007, we have no terrorism in our country since
9/11. Wanna know why? Because Bush stood on the wreckage with a
bullhorn in his hand and in not so many words told the middle east
that they should prepare for a smackdown.
You ignorant people that think appeasement is the answer to dealing
with these barbarians learn little from history.
Before you tell me how good Reagan was, remember his memorable retreat in
Lebanon when the Marines were killed.
He kicked Grenada's *****. And who held the strings of that country?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
22 May 2007 01:25:11 PM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Then how did they get released? Let me tell you, Iran knew that
Carter was a LIBERAL *****. Liberal pussies get walked all over by
people in the middle east because they only know war. If Carter were
re-elected, those people would have remained in Iran until he was
gone, or longer in the unlikely event another Democrat was elected.
They were released when Carter would get no credit for their release, Reagan
was an irrelevancy to Iran unless of course you're claiming he or
bushleague the first negotiated with the Iranians. May I suggest that
Carter's mistake was conceding how important the hostages were. Dumbya
would bluster like mad, but absent a full scale invasion, he couldn't do
more. In other words, why hasn't dumbya gotten the US citizen now being
held in Iran released?
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
23 May 2007 07:15:31 AM |
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On Tue, 22 May 2007 14:25:11 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Then how did they get released? ÊLet me tell you, Iran knew that
Carter was a LIBERAL *****. ÊLiberal pussies get walked all over by
people in the middle east because they only know war. ÊIf Carter were
re-elected, those people would have remained in Iran until he was
gone, or longer in the unlikely event another Democrat was elected.
They were released when Carter would get no credit for their release,
So you're saying that if Carter were re-elected, those people would
have likely remained there until he was gone? Nice argument.
Reagan
was an irrelevancy to Iran unless of course you're claiming he or
bushleague the first negotiated with the Iranians.
No, I'm claiming that Reagan made it clear as he was running for
president that he wouldn't stand for that situation and they believed
he wouldn't be a LIBERAL ***** LIKE CARTER.
So there ya go, we really aren't that far apart on that one...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
23 May 2007 09:26:38 AM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
No, I'm claiming that Reagan made it clear as he was running for
president that he wouldn't stand for that situation and they believed
he wouldn't be a LIBERAL ***** LIKE CARTER.
Actually Iran intentionally held onto the hostages after it became apparent
the holding was affecting the US electoral process and that even Raygun
could do little about it if they kept them. The usefulness of the hostages
was over once the elections were over, and inauguration day was chosen as
offering the biggest bang. Raygun's bluster was just that bluster, and it
was obvious to most of the world.
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| User: "Dom" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
24 May 2007 11:01:16 AM |
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On May 23, 10:26 am, Art Clemons <artclem...@aolSPAM.com> wrote:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
No, I'm claiming that Reagan made it clear as he was running for
president that he wouldn't stand for that situation and they believed
he wouldn't be a LIBERAL ***** LIKE CARTER.
Actually Iran intentionally held onto the hostages after it became apparent
the holding was affecting the US electoral process and that even Raygun
could do little about it if they kept them. The usefulness of the hostages
was over once the elections were over, and inauguration day was chosen as
offering the biggest bang. Raygun's bluster was just that bluster, and it
was obvious to most of the world.
You are indeed correct. It is incredible that so many Reagan
mythologists still claim that he was responsible for the release of
the hostages. On 20 Jan 1981, the hostages flew out of Iran while
Carter was still president and landed
in Algeria after Reagan had been sworn in. However, Reagan had nothing
to due with their release and much to do with the delay. The
negotiations had been conducted by Carter through an Algerian
ambassador, to whom the hostages were released.
It is also important to remember that the hostages were taken by
misguided university students, after the Shah had been admitted in the
US for cancer treatments, who viewed this as another attempt to
restore the Shah (as in 1953). Subsequently, the hostages became pawns
in the internal power struggles among the various political factions
in Iran.
Several times their imminent release was botched by the ineptitude of
foreign intermediaries.
In addition to the Carter presidency, many Iranians who had
participated in the overthrow of the Shah became victims of the
clerics who used the hostage crisis to strengthen their political
position. There were numerous assassinations. Bani Sadr, the secular
president who had been elected by 75 percent of the voters, saved
himself by fleeing to France.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
24 May 2007 11:10:13 AM |
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On 24 May 2007 09:01:16 -0700, Dom <DRosa@teikyopost.edu> puked:
Reagan had nothing
to due with their release
Well that's a step up from the usual gang of misfits that rewrite
history. They say that Reagan brokered a deal...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
24 May 2007 01:39:49 PM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Well that's a step up from the usual gang of misfits that rewrite
history. They say that Reagan brokered a deal...
If he did, he broke the law, of course considering the history of
republicans in this country.............................
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
29 May 2007 07:22:25 AM |
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On Thu, 24 May 2007 14:39:49 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Well that's a step up from the usual gang of misfits that rewrite
history. ÊThey say that Reagan brokered a deal...
If he did, he broke the law, of course considering the history of
republicans in this country.............................
And Democrats. Are you about to tell me that they are any different?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
29 May 2007 07:31:24 AM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
And Democrats. Are you about to tell me that they are any different?
There have been more republican political bribery and similar scandals than
democratic ones. Unless you're going to claim that republicans are more
likely to be caught, the difference is incredible.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
29 May 2007 11:51:36 AM |
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On Tue, 29 May 2007 08:31:24 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
And Democrats. ÊAre you about to tell me that they are any different?
There have been more republican political bribery and similar scandals than
democratic ones. Unless you're going to claim that republicans are more
likely to be caught, the difference is incredible.
Are you saying in history or in recent his troy? Of course there have
been more in recent history, that's because there have been more
Republicans. Do the math...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
29 May 2007 03:45:07 PM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Are you saying in history or in recent his troy? Of course there have
been more in recent history, that's because there have been more
Republicans. Do the math...
Want to try a statistical sample every four years since Nixon with Democrats
and republicans and the numbers of folks removed from office or forced to
resign? Want to try since Carter left office the same way? Want to
include Carter, no problem!
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
30 May 2007 07:06:36 AM |
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On Tue, 29 May 2007 16:45:07 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Are you saying in history or in recent his troy? ÊOf course there have
been more in recent history, that's because there have been more
Republicans. ÊDo the math...
Want to try a statistical sample every four years since Nixon with Democrats
and republicans and the numbers of folks removed from office or forced to
resign? Want to try since Carter left office the same way? Want to
include Carter, no problem!
Ok, include the attorneys Carter fired for political reasons in the
list. You know, like the ones you're accusing Bush for doing.
If you have the time, knock yourself out, but be accurate.
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
30 May 2007 07:57:15 AM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Ok, include the attorneys Carter fired for political reasons in the
list. You know, like the ones you're accusing Bush for doing.
Which ones are you talking about? Did Carter appoint the US Atty you're
referring to? How many US attorneys that Carter appointed did he fire?
Incidentally, if you're referring to the Philadelphia firing, the US atty
fired was a republican!
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
30 May 2007 08:45:44 AM |
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On Wed, 30 May 2007 08:57:15 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Ok, include the attorneys Carter fired for political reasons in the
list. ÊYou know, like the ones you're accusing Bush for doing.
Which ones are you talking about? Did Carter appoint the US Atty you're
referring to? How many US attorneys that Carter appointed did he fire?
Incidentally, if you're referring to the Philadelphia firing, the US atty
fired was a republican!
http://newsbusters.org/node/11697
This should answer your questions.
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
30 May 2007 10:49:59 AM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Which ones are you talking about? Did Carter appoint the US Atty you're
referring to? How many US attorneys that Carter appointed did he fire?
Incidentally, if you're referring to the Philadelphia firing, the US atty
fired was a republican!
http://newsbusters.org/node/11697
This should answer your questions.
Let's see I asked if you were referring to the Philadelphia firing, you
were, I mentioned that Carter fired a republican and DID NOT terminate a US
ATTY whom he had appointed as Dumbya did. The two are not comparable!
Further, you've found one termination, which Carter admitted was done at
the behest of a Democratic Congressman. I might note that the
investigations continued after Marston was fired, you might want to talk to
some of the former AUSAs in Philadelphia about that. Since no order to
terminate investigations was given, firing a republican has a different
spin than terminating folks for not investigating when there was no basis
or insisting on an indictment to produce headlines during an election,
which is what dumbya and rover boy apparently tried through Gonezales.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
30 May 2007 11:28:30 AM |
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On Wed, 30 May 2007 11:49:59 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Which ones are you talking about? ÊDid Carter appoint the US Atty you're
referring to? ÊHow many US attorneys that Carter appointed did he fire?
Incidentally, if you're referring to the Philadelphia firing, the US atty
fired was a republican!
http://newsbusters.org/node/11697
This should answer your questions.
Let's see I asked if you were referring to the Philadelphia firing, you
were, I mentioned that Carter fired a republican and DID NOT terminate a US
ATTY whom he had appointed as Dumbya did. The two are not comparable!
Further, you've found one termination, which Carter admitted was done at
the behest of a Democratic Congressman. I might note that the
investigations continued after Marston was fired, you might want to talk to
some of the former AUSAs in Philadelphia about that. Since no order to
terminate investigations was given, firing a republican has a different
spin than terminating folks for not investigating when there was no basis
or insisting on an indictment to produce headlines during an election,
which is what dumbya and rover boy apparently tried through Gonezales.
LOL.
As soon as they roll out the 'dumbya' I know I scored a win.
Between this thread and the Hubble thread you're taking a pummeling
today...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
30 May 2007 06:28:34 PM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
LOL.
As soon as they roll out the 'dumbya' I know I scored a win.
Between this thread and the Hubble thread you're taking a pummeling
today...
Nope, I pointed out the differences between the Carter firing of Marston and
what dumbya did. Dumbya fired USAs whom he had appointed, while Carter
fired someone whom he hadn't appointed. Carter's firing did not stop any
investigations (Ask any of the assistant USAs of that era) nor were there
any suggestions that any investigation should be ended. The problem you
have with dumbya's firings is that they were obviously political and
apparently designed to induce investigations of political opponents by the
USAs.
You also might want to ask just why republicans in 1980 didn't bring up the
Marston firing, while the dumbya firings are likely to be remembered well
after he's long gone. It's so unusual to fire your appointees in that
office that this will be remembered.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
31 May 2007 12:59:47 PM |
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On Wed, 30 May 2007 19:28:34 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
LOL.
As soon as they roll out the 'dumbya' I know I scored a win.
Between this thread and the Hubble thread you're taking a pummeling
today...
Nope, I pointed out the differences between the Carter firing of Marston and
what dumbya did. Dumbya fired USAs whom he had appointed, while Carter
fired someone whom he hadn't appointed. Carter's firing did not stop any
investigations (Ask any of the assistant USAs of that era) nor were there
any suggestions that any investigation should be ended. The problem you
have with dumbya's firings is that they were obviously political and
apparently designed to induce investigations of political opponents by the
USAs.
You also might want to ask just why republicans in 1980 didn't bring up the
Marston firing, while the dumbya firings are likely to be remembered well
after he's long gone. It's so unusual to fire your appointees in that
office that this will be remembered.
I'm guessing because the Democrats are whiny little bitches? Am I
close on that?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
31 May 2007 01:43:54 PM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
I'm guessing because the Democrats are whiny little bitches? Am I
close on that?
No, it's because republican are incompetent at some things. May I also
suggest that despite the misadministration's defenders claiming that the
President has the right to fire, it's most unusual to fire the folks you
appointed. About the only time they get removed is to become federal
judges or get advanced in the inJustice department. You can check the
figures for yourself. It has nothing to do with whining, it has to do with
expectations.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
31 May 2007 01:55:07 PM |
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On Thu, 31 May 2007 14:43:54 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
I'm guessing because the Democrats are whiny little bitches? ÊAm I
close on that?
No, it's because republican are incompetent at some things.
Like prosecuting Democrats for wrongdoing? Maybe you have a point...
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
31 May 2007 03:09:09 PM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Like prosecuting Democrats for wrongdoing? Maybe you have a point...
Funny thing but generally Democratic administrations have been better at
getting Democrats, especially high level Democrats.
Part of the problem is that some republicans seem to target democrats when
it's politically beneficial, that's part of what was wrong in NM.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
01 Jun 2007 06:24:30 AM |
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On Thu, 31 May 2007 16:09:09 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Like prosecuting Democrats for wrongdoing? ÊMaybe you have a point...
Funny thing but generally Democratic administrations have been better at
getting Democrats, especially high level Democrats.
Part of the problem is that some republicans seem to target democrats when
it's politically beneficial, that's part of what was wrong in NM.
Yeah, hey, I've heard that Democrats are the most moral people in the
world and Republicans are horrible. Did you hear about that, too?
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
.
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| User: "Art Clemons" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
01 Jun 2007 09:05:34 AM |
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lab~rat >:-) wrote:
Yeah, hey, I've heard that Democrats are the most moral people in the
world and Republicans are horrible. Did you hear about that, too?
Never heard it from you, and I pointed out that Democrats do seem to get
prosecuted while Democrats are in office.
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| User: "lab~rat :-" |
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| Title: Re: CARTER *****-SLAPS HIMSELF!! |
23 May 2007 09:54:51 AM |
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On Wed, 23 May 2007 10:26:38 -0400, Art Clemons
<artclemons@aolSPAM.com> puked:
lab~rat >:-) wrote:
No, I'm claiming that Reagan made it clear as he was running for
president that he wouldn't stand for that situation and they believed
he wouldn't be a LIBERAL ***** LIKE CARTER.
Actually Iran intentionally held onto the hostages after it became apparent
the holding was affecting the US electoral process and that even Raygun
could do little about it if they kept them. The usefulness of the hostages
was over once the elections were over, and inauguration day was chosen as
offering the biggest bang. Raygun's bluster was just that bluster, and it
was obvious to most of the world.
Yet ironically, Carter failed to retrieve the hostages and the crisis
would have continued if he were re-elected.
Why don't you just give this one up? You have scattered arguments
with me all over the place, and this one is just more stupid than the
others.
--
lab~rat >:-)
Do you want polite or do you want sincere?
.
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