| Topic: |
Politics > Politics-USA |
| User: |
"donquijote1954" |
| Date: |
05 Mar 2006 11:58:03 PM |
| Object: |
Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
Is there a way to put the worker in command of his labor? Cooperatives
and Unions sure are welcome. I know, for example, a Children Museum
that at night becomes hard labor for desperate women working at minimum
wage, only part-time with no benefits whatsoever. The word "independent
contractor" would sound as a joke, but this is more serious than Wax
Museum. The museum and the middlewoman though sure make big bucks and
wash their hands. WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE.
Well, it seems many leeches are taking a bite out of them...
"Employers oftentimes improperly classify their employees as
independent contractors so that they, the employer, do not have to pay
payroll taxes, the minimum wage or overtime, comply with other wage and
hour law requirements such as providing meal periods and rest breaks,
or reimburse their workers for business expenses incurred in performing
their jobs. Additionally, employers do not have to cover independent
contractors under workers' compensation insurance, and are not liable
for payments under unemployment insurance, disability insurance, or
social security."
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_IndependentContractor.htm
And the middleman is no less bloodsucking...
``The middleman insulates the grower or boss -- in this case, the
general contractor -- from the labor certifications required to hire
a
migrant and any problems that might arise from hiring people who
might
not be here legally,''
SO, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS THE SOLUTION???
WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote
COMING OUT OF THE JUNGLE
http://webspawner.com/usrers/donquijote1
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| User: "anathrax15" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
08 Mar 2006 01:25:27 PM |
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If the women at this museum are getting treated so poorly, they why are
they continuing to work there? Do they have guns to their heads
forcing them to sweep the floors of a museum(btw, A monkey could
probibly be taught to do the same job, and would require no wages or
benifits).
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: What should be the optimal group for cooperation? |
14 Mar 2006 03:04:00 PM |
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To get rid of the leeches, bring coops, unions and other forms of
cooperation...
Conservatives, in their social paranoia, say "the family," socialists
say "the state" (but fail to see the problem with bureaucracies) and
anarchists say "the coop." Well, I'm inclined to the last one since it
provides a group not too small as to be insignificant and not too big
as to be unwieldy. Another argument going for it is that you can try
new economic and social programs without risking the whole of society
suffering from it, say going hungry, the way it happened in Russia.
Kropotkin had it right...
"Kropotkin argues, in his cardinal premise, that the struggle for
existence usually leads to mutual aid rather than combat as the chief
criterion of evolutionary success. ([He] promoted a vision of small
communities setting their own standards by consensus for the benefit of
all, thereby eliminating the need for most functions of a central
government.)"
http://www.marxists.org/subject/sci...s/kropotkin.htm
The results of this poll shall dictate the direction of the next
revolution, because there's one coming, right?
http://engforum.pravda.ru/showthread.php3?postid=1800436#post1800436
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
16 Mar 2006 02:41:54 PM |
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anathrax15 wrote:
If the women at this museum are getting treated so poorly, they why are
they continuing to work there? Do they have guns to their heads
forcing them to sweep the floors of a museum
Probably it's called having to feed their family.
(btw, A monkey could
probibly be taught to do the same job, and would require no wages or
benifits).
You really are an elitist snob.
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| User: "anathrax15" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
16 Mar 2006 03:53:08 PM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
anathrax15 wrote:
If the women at this museum are getting treated so poorly, they why are
they continuing to work there? Do they have guns to their heads
forcing them to sweep the floors of a museum
Probably it's called having to feed their family.
Which isn't that hard to do, figuring how cheap food is these days.
I'm just saying that its not anyone elses problem but their own. I
know, personal responsibility, its a crazy thought.
(btw, A monkey could
probibly be taught to do the same job, and would require no wages or
benifits).
You really are an elitist snob.
More like I can identify what unskilled labor really is, aparently you
can't.
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
16 Mar 2006 08:55:03 PM |
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anathrax15 -wrote:
Which isn't that hard to do, figuring how cheap food is these days.
I'm just saying that its not anyone elses problem but their own. I
know, personal responsibility, its a crazy thought.
What world do you live in where working to feed your family isn't
taking personal responsibility.
More like I can identify what unskilled labor really is, aparently you
can't.
You probably don't realize how your disdain for unskilled workers is
elitist, which proves even further how much of an elitist snob you
really are.
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| User: "anathrax15" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 01:26:37 AM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
anathrax15 -wrote:
Which isn't that hard to do, figuring how cheap food is these days.
I'm just saying that its not anyone elses problem but their own. I
know, personal responsibility, its a crazy thought.
What world do you live in where working to feed your family isn't
taking personal responsibility.
Working to feed their families is personal resposibility. However,
bitching about their current job because of their own (lack of)
responsibility is not mine or anyone elses problem but their own.
More like I can identify what unskilled labor really is, aparently you
can't.
You probably don't realize how your disdain for unskilled workers is
elitist, which proves even further how much of an elitist snob you
really are.
I don't have any pity for the poor, you are correct. Does that make me
an elitist or a rational human being?
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 07:40:08 AM |
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anathrax15 wrote:
Working to feed their families is personal resposibility. However,
bitching about their current job because of their own (lack of)
responsibility is not mine or anyone elses problem but their own
They're taking personal responsibili8ty by asking for more pay and
better benefits. Are you saying that everyone that aks for a raise in
America is just bitching, and shouldn't get it. Or they have to get
your approval first.
I don't have any pity for the poor, you are correct. Does that make me
an elitist or a rational human being?
It's not that you have no pity for thr poor, a sad statement for any
human being to make, but yoiu have no respect for people that work with
their hands. That makes you an elitist snob. I told you that a true
elitist snob wouldn't understand, and you don't.
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| User: "anathrax15" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 10:30:50 AM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
They're taking personal responsibili8ty by asking for more pay and
better benefits. Are you saying that everyone that aks for a raise in
America is just bitching, and shouldn't get it. Or they have to get
your approval first.
They get the pay they deserve. They agree to work for that pay. If
they don't like it, that is not anybody elses problem. What is so hard
to understand about that.
It's not that you have no pity for thr poor, a sad statement for any
human being to make, but yoiu have no respect for people that work with
their hands. That makes you an elitist snob. I told you that a true
elitist snob wouldn't understand, and you don't.
I have plenty of respect for people that work with their hands, except
when they ask to get more than they are worth and pretend they are not
replacable, passing higher costs to everyone else.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 01:30:49 PM |
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anathrax15 wrote:
I have plenty of respect for people that work with their hands, except
when they ask to get more than they are worth and pretend they are not
replacable, passing higher costs to everyone else.
The problem is the contractor leech keeps the big bucks while assuming
none of the responsibility, eg. healthcare.
So it seems like a jungle to me...
(These little tiny stories are part of a series in which I explain to
my little daughter how things work)
HOW THE POLITICAL JUNGLE WORKS
Politics works like this: Big People of Big Country buy Big People of
Little Country, who, by the way, will be elected in "democratic
elections" thanks to big bucks; Big People of Big Country give big
loans to Little Country (of course, to buy "made in Big Country"); Big
People of Little Country pocket a big chunk and invest it in the Big
Country, without ever investing in real development (education, health,
the environment, etc); Little People of Little Country work for ever to
pay back what they never got; Big People of Little Country thank in big
ceremony Big People of Big Country in the name of Little Country, and
promise to repay the big debt; and Little People of Little Country get
big promises, just like Little People of Big Country. And they lived
happily ever after... (Moral: The Big Fish eats the Little Fish. Well,
unless the Little Fish get organized...)
PS: And so the little people of little country is forced to emigrate
and work below the little people of big country in order to survive...
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 11:09:36 AM |
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anathrax15 wrote:
They get the pay they deserve. They agree to work for that pay. If
they don't like it, that is not anybody elses problem. What is so hard
to understand about that.
They are working to support their families. A very "Family" oriented
endeavor. They are also asking for a raise and improved benfits, just
like anyone else has that right. Are you saying that no one in America
has the right to ask for a raise.
I have plenty of respect for people that work with their hands, except
when they ask to get more than they are worth and pretend they are not
replacable, passing higher costs to everyone else.
You started out so well, but ended again in your continued argument
that workers don't have any rights to higher pay unless you approve.
You really are full of yourself that you believe you are the arbiter of
all workers' pay in the world.
I've never met anyone with an elitist attitude as bad as yours.
What do you do for a living that is, in your mind, so much more
important than someone that works with his hands.
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| User: "anathrax15" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 11:40:21 AM |
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Your getting a little off topic captain. I don't have any claim to
anyone's wages. I merely ask that people not *****/complain/blame
others for their shitty working conditions. They have every right in
the world to ask for a raise. But if they don't get it, then they can
leave and find better work.
You are under the very sad assumption that anyone who does not pity the
poor is an elitist.
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 12:15:43 PM |
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anathrax15 wrote:
Your getting a little off topic captain. I don't have any claim to
anyone's wages. I merely ask that people not *****/complain/blame
others for their shitty working conditions. They have every right in
the world to ask for a raise. But if they don't get it, then they can
leave and find better work.
Then why do you complain so much when workers demand better wages.
As to your claimn that you don't have any claim to anyone's wages. From
your 11:30 am post:
I have plenty of respect for people that work with their hands, except
when they ask to get more than they are worth and pretend they are not
replacable, passing higher costs to everyone else.
Your making the judgement that they are asking for more than you
personally believe they're worth.
You are under the very sad assumption that anyone who does not pity the
poor is an elitist.
No, I'm calling you an elitist because you put down everyone that works
with their hands and has the effrontery to ask for a higher wage.
I told you that you're so full of yourself you wouldn't understand and
you still don't.
Again, what is the all important job you have that makes you better
then everyone else.
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| User: "anathrax15" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 01:21:24 PM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
Then why do you complain so much when workers demand better wages.
As to your claimn that you don't have any claim to anyone's wages. From
your 11:30 am post:
I actually don't care if they ask for a raise or not. It's when they
complain like it is supose to be 'taken care' of by someone other than
themselves.
Your making the judgement that they are asking for more than you
personally believe they're worth.
It's the employers call, no one elses. If their labor is valued
enough, then their pay reflects that.
No, I'm calling you an elitist because you put down everyone that works
with their hands and has the effrontery to ask for a higher wage.
I told you that you're so full of yourself you wouldn't understand and
you still don't.
Again, what is the all important job you have that makes you better
then everyone else.
Nice large, inaccurate generalization there capt. There are plenty of
skilled workers that 'work with their hands', as well as many unskilled
workers that 'work with their hands'. Also wouldn't you consider the
workers in the GM JOBS bank to 'work with their hands', since they need
to use their hands to play board games and push play on the DVD player
remote. Also, my job is irrelevant, since your making a straw man
argument out of this whole discussion anyway.
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 02:47:27 PM |
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anathrax15 wrote:
I actually don't care if they ask for a raise or not. It's when they
complain like it is supose to be 'taken care' of by someone other than
themselves.
Well, since they themnselves aren't asking to be "taken care of" you
have no complaint.
Nice large, inaccurate generalization there capt. There are plenty of
skilled workers that 'work with their hands', as well as many unskilled
workers that 'work with their hands'. Also wouldn't you consider the
workers in the GM JOBS bank to 'work with their hands', since they need
to use their hands to play board games and push play on the DVD player
remote. Also, my job is irrelevant, since your making a straw man
argument out of this whole discussion anyway.
No generalization, or straw amn at all munless you want to refute your
exact words:
I have plenty of respect for people that work with their hands, except
when they ask to get more than they are worth and pretend they are not
replacable, passing higher costs to everyone else.
Your job is very important because you keep pointing out how other
workers don't have the right to ask for higher wages, unless you
approve.
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| User: "anathrax15" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 04:17:20 PM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
anathrax15 wrote:
I actually don't care if they ask for a raise or not. It's when they
complain like it is supose to be 'taken care' of by someone other than
themselves.
Well, since they themnselves aren't asking to be "taken care of" you
have no complaint.
At the expense of others.
Nice large, inaccurate generalization there capt. There are plenty of
skilled workers that 'work with their hands', as well as many unskilled
workers that 'work with their hands'. Also wouldn't you consider the
workers in the GM JOBS bank to 'work with their hands', since they need
to use their hands to play board games and push play on the DVD player
remote. Also, my job is irrelevant, since your making a straw man
argument out of this whole discussion anyway.
No generalization, or straw amn at all munless you want to refute your
exact words:
Your saying just because I don't support over-inflated wages that I'm
an elitist pig, even though I already stated that wages should be
determined by the employer and no one else.
I have plenty of respect for people that work with their hands, except
when they ask to get more than they are worth and pretend they are not
replacable, passing higher costs to everyone else.
Your job is very important because you keep pointing out how other
workers don't have the right to ask for higher wages, unless you
approve.
As I already stated, my approval has nothing to do with it, and I could
care less if an employee asks for a raise. It should be the decision
of the employer. Lay off the straw man.
Also you never commented, but am I an elitist because I don't respect
the workers in the JOBS bank that 'work with their hands' for 60k a
year?
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| User: "Michael Legel" |
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| Title: Re: Contractors, Middlemen and other leeches |
17 Mar 2006 04:43:38 PM |
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"anathrax15" <anathrax15@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142633840.234358.59430@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
As I already stated, my approval has nothing to do with it, and I could
care less if an employee asks for a raise. It should be the decision
of the employer. Lay off the straw man.
Left to the employer we would be making nothing now would we? It should be
a decision made by all parties but since business owns our government,
business is rapidly driving America to bankruptcy.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 10:28:42 AM |
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Michael Legel wrote:
"anathrax15" <anathrax15@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1142633840.234358.59430@i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
As I already stated, my approval has nothing to do with it, and I could
care less if an employee asks for a raise. It should be the decision
of the employer. Lay off the straw man.
Left to the employer we would be making nothing now would we? It should be
a decision made by all parties but since business owns our government,
business is rapidly driving America to bankruptcy.
Remember the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better.
"Made in China" better than "Made in America." Hallelujah!
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| User: "Screw The Union" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 10:45:04 AM |
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donquijote1954 wrote:
Remember the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better.
"Made in China" better than "Made in America." Hallelujah!
China makes some very good computer gear. I bought a 19" LCD display
becuase I wanted a second monitor. Hooked it up, liked it so much I
bought a second one and got rid of my CRT.
Also bought a DSLR made in Thailand a couple years ago. (Canon 300D).
Better than the half-assed attempts Kokak made at building professional
DSLRs.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 12:24:33 PM |
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Screw The Union wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
Remember the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better.
"Made in China" better than "Made in America." Hallelujah!
China makes some very good computer gear. I bought a 19" LCD display
becuase I wanted a second monitor. Hooked it up, liked it so much I
bought a second one and got rid of my CRT.
Also bought a DSLR made in Thailand a couple years ago. (Canon 300D).
Better than the half-assed attempts Kokak made at building professional
DSLRs.
Well, thank the Republicans (and Democrats alike), but when it comes to
high paying jobs, they are gone.
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| User: "Screw The Union" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 12:33:12 PM |
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donquijote1954 wrote:
Well, thank the Republicans (and Democrats alike), but when it comes to
high paying jobs, they are gone.
That's pretty amusing. I and my buddies have pretty high paying jobs in
the IT business. I'm pretty well set for retirement, so any more years
are just a bonus. Guess the days of $40/hr for bolting wheels on cars
are long gone though.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
19 Mar 2006 02:19:17 PM |
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Screw The Union wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
Well, thank the Republicans (and Democrats alike), but when it comes to
high paying jobs, they are gone.
That's pretty amusing. I and my buddies have pretty high paying jobs in
the IT business. I'm pretty well set for retirement, so any more years
are just a bonus. Guess the days of $40/hr for bolting wheels on cars
are long gone though.
Yep, now it's time for them to go and work for Walmart. They will be
stocking merchandise "Made in China," which promotes the American
dream. Is it still a dream, or nightmare?
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| User: "Screw The Union" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
19 Mar 2006 03:11:46 PM |
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donquijote1954 wrote:
Yep, now it's time for them to go and work for Walmart. They will be
stocking merchandise "Made in China," which promotes the American
dream. Is it still a dream, or nightmare?
America, land of opportunity worked well for me. For the lazy and
stupid, probably not so well.
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| User: "donquijote1954" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
20 Mar 2006 12:53:14 PM |
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Screw The Union wrote:
donquijote1954 wrote:
Yep, now it's time for them to go and work for Walmart. They will be
stocking merchandise "Made in China," which promotes the American
dream. Is it still a dream, or nightmare?
America, land of opportunity worked well for me. For the lazy and
stupid, probably not so well.
I guess the hardworking Chinese are happy with their communism since
it's putting them to work. "Lazy Americans" are kicked out of their
jobs and still must be happy with their democracy...
This world is hard to understand. :(
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 10:59:14 AM |
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Usuck wrote:
China makes some very good computer gear. I bought a 19" LCD display
becuase I wanted a second monitor. Hooked it up, liked it so much I
bought a second one and got rid of my CRT.
We all know how much you hate American products and American workers
you don't have to keep repeating it.
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| User: "Screw The Union" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 11:13:44 AM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
We all know how much you hate American products and American workers
you don't have to keep repeating it.
No, just like any other consumer, I hate paying a premium for union made
junk.
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 12:29:19 PM |
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Usuck wrote:
No, just like any other consumer, I hate paying a premium for union made
junk.
Except you claim that the IBM products that were made by non-union
workers were junk, and you applauded when IBM sold all those American
jobs to China.
You're just anti-American scum.
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| User: "Screw The Union" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 12:34:18 PM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
You're just anti-American scum.
Wrong, just an anti-union working guy.
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 01:51:58 PM |
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Usuck wrote:
Wrong, just an anti-union working guy.
That would be true if you didn't take the time to always say how ALL
American products are garbage, and you applauded when IBM sending
15,000 non-union American jobs overseas.
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| User: "Screw The Union" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 02:00:32 PM |
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Capt. Bill wrote:
That would be true if you didn't take the time to always say how ALL
American products are garbage, and you applauded when IBM sending
15,000 non-union American jobs overseas.
You have no clue what you are writing about.
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| User: "Capt. Bill" |
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| Title: Re: the Republican slogan: two bucks good, four bucks better |
18 Mar 2006 02:48:50 PM |
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Usuck wrote:
You have no clue what you are writing about.
I' m writing about a person that hates America, namely you.
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