Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite!



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Zizek, Angry Man!"
Date: 02 Sep 2006 01:50:48 PM
Object: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite!
Criticize Israel? You're an Anti-Semite!
by Rosa Brooks
EVER WONDER what it's like to be a pariah?
Publish something sharply critical of Israeli government policies and
you'll find out. If you're lucky, you'll merely discover that you've been
uninvited to some dinner parties. If you're less lucky, you'll be the
subject of an all-out attack by neoconservative pundits and accused of rabid
anti-Semitism.
This, at least, is what happened to Ken Roth. Roth - whose father fled
Nazi Germany - is executive director of Human Rights Watch, America's
largest and most respected human rights organization. (Disclosure: I have
worked in the past as a paid consultant for the group.) In July, after the
Israeli offensive in Lebanon began, Human Rights Watch did the same thing it
has done in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, East Timor, Sierra Leone,
Congo, Uganda and countless other conflict zones around the globe: It sent
researchers to monitor the conflict and report on any abuses committed by
either side.
It found plenty. On July 18, Human Rights Watch condemned Hezbollah
rocket strikes on civilian areas within Israel, calling the strikes "serious
violations of international humanitarian law and probable war crimes." So
far, so good. You can't lose when you criticize a terrorist organization.
But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians - Human
Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on civilians.
Roth noted that the Israeli military appeared to be "treating southern
Lebanon as a free-fire zone," and he observed that the failure to take
appropriate measures to distinguish between civilians and combatants
constitutes a war crime.
The backlash was prompt. Roth and Human Rights Watch soon found
themselves accused of unethical behavior, giving aid and comfort to
terrorists and anti-Semitism. The conservative New York Sun attacked Roth
(who is Jewish) for having a "clear pro-Hezbollah and anti-Israel bias" and
accused him of engaging in "the de-legitimization of Judaism, the basis of
much anti-Semitism." Neocon commentator David Horowitz called Roth a
"reflexive Israel-basher . who, in his zest to pillory Israel at every turn,
is little more than an ally of the barbarians." The New Republic piled on,
as did Alan Dershowitz, who claimed Human Rights Watch "cooks the books" to
make Israel look bad. And writing in the Jewish Exponent, Jonathan Rosenblum
accused Roth of resorting to a "slur about primitive Jewish bloodlust."
Anyone familiar with Human Rights Watch - or with Roth - knows this to
be lunacy. Human Rights Watch is nonpartisan - it doesn't "take sides" in
conflicts. And the notion that Roth is anti-Semitic verges on the insane.
But what's most troubling about the vitriol directed at Roth and his
organization isn't that it's savage, unfounded and fantastical. What's most
troubling is that it's typical. Typical, that is, of what anyone rash enough
to criticize Israel can expect to encounter. In the United States today, it
just isn't possible to have a civil debate about Israel, because any serious
criticism of its policies is instantly countered with charges of
anti-Semitism. Think Israel's tactics against Hezbollah were too
heavy-handed, or that Israel hasn't always been wholly fair to the
Palestinians, or that the United States should reconsider its unquestioning
financial and military support for Israel? Shhh: Don't voice those
sentiments unless you want to be called an anti-Semite - and probably a
terrorist sympathizer to boot.
How did adopting a reflexively pro-Israel stance come to be a
mandatory aspect of American Jewish identity? Skepticism - a willingness to
ask tough questions, a refusal to embrace dogma - has always been central to
the Jewish intellectual tradition. Ironically, this tradition remains alive
in Israel, where respected public figures routinely criticize the government
in far harsher terms than those used by Human Rights Watch.
In a climate in which good-faith criticism of Israel is automatically
denounced as anti-Semitic, everyone loses. Israeli policies are a major
source of discord in the Islamic world, and anger at Israel usually spills
over into anger at the U.S., Israel's biggest backer.
With resentment of Israeli policies fueling terrorism and instability
both in the Middle East and around the globe, it's past time for Americans
to have a serious national debate about how to bring a just peace to the
Middle East. But if criticism of Israel is out of bounds, that debate can't
occur - and we'll all pay the price.
Back to Human Rights Watch's critics. Why waste time denouncing
imaginary anti-Semitism when there's no shortage of the real thing? From
politically motivated arrests of Jews in Iran to assaults on Jewish children
in Ukraine, there's plenty of genuine anti-Semitism out there - and Human
Rights Watch is usually taking the lead in condemning it. So if you're
bothered by anti-Semitism - if you're bothered by ideologies that insist
that some human lives have less value than others - you could do a whole lot
worse than send a check to Human Rights Watch.
© Copyright 2006 Los Angeles Times
###
.

User: "Stan de SD"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 02:08:57 PM
"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...


But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -

Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on

civilians.
Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on civilians.
The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military operations,
such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media press
to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...
.
User: "FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 03:57:28 PM
Stan de SD wrote:

"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...

But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on civilians.
The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military operations,
such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media press
to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...

So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people right
down to the granularity of the reporters and editors,
you're saying they're anti-Israel?
That's pretty demented talk.
--
MikeOscarPapa
Vote out all incumbents in November '06
Reform the Media:Boycott CBS, CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC
(C-SPAN is on warning)
http://www.freepress.net/
http://www.prwatch.org/
http://www.alternet.org/
http://mediamatters.org/
.
User: "Stan de SD"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 05:10:05 PM
"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...



Stan de SD wrote:

"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...

But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the

conflict's

death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on

civilians.

The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military

operations,

such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media

press

to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people

Really?
.
User: "FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 06:06:09 PM
Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:


"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...


But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's

death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human


Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.

The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,

such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press

to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?

Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.
--
MikeOscarPapa
Vote out all incumbents in November '06
Reform the Media:Boycott CBS, CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC
(C-SPAN is on warning)
http://www.freepress.net/
http://www.prwatch.org/
http://www.alternet.org/
http://mediamatters.org/
.
User: "Stan de SD"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 08:15:28 PM
"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:_qednZsQqONekmfZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...



Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:


"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...


But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's

death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human


Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.

The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,

such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often

after

leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press

to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce

their

little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?


Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.

You make the accusation, it's your responsibility to prove it first.
.
User: "FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 08:59:10 PM
Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:_qednZsQqONekmfZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:



"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...



But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's


death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human



Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.


The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,


such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often


after

leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press


to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce


their

little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?


Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.



You make the accusation, it's your responsibility to prove it first.

I have, now it's your turn.
--
MikeOscarPapa
Vote out all incumbents in November '06
Reform the Media:Boycott CBS, CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC
(C-SPAN is on warning)
http://www.freepress.net/
http://www.prwatch.org/
http://www.alternet.org/
http://mediamatters.org/
.
User: "Stan de SD"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 09:30:43 PM
"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:EJKdnciGw8HFpWfZnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@comcast.com...



Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:_qednZsQqONekmfZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:



"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...



But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's


death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese

civilians -


Human



Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.


The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,


such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often


after

leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The

Hizbollywood

crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press


to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce


their

little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?


Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.



You make the accusation, it's your responsibility to prove it first.


I have, now it's your turn.

Your accusation doesn't hold water because you can't prove.
.
User: "FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 03 Sep 2006 07:20:49 AM
Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:EJKdnciGw8HFpWfZnZ2dnUVZ_oidnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:


"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:_qednZsQqONekmfZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:


"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...



Stan de SD wrote:




"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...




But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's



death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese


civilians -

Human




Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.



The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,



such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often


after


leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The


Hizbollywood

crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press



to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce


their


little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?


Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.



You make the accusation, it's your responsibility to prove it first.


I have, now it's your turn.



Your accusation doesn't hold water because you can't prove.

But I did, and you cut it out, now it's your turn.
--
MikeOscarPapa
Vote out all incumbents in November '06
Reform the Media:Boycott CBS, CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC
(C-SPAN is on warning)
http://www.freepress.net/
http://www.prwatch.org/
http://www.alternet.org/
http://mediamatters.org/
.




User: "Zizek, Angry Man!"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 06:15:37 PM
"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:_qednZsQqONekmfZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...



Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:


"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...


But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's

death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human


Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.

The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,

such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press

to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?


Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.

Fox (Aussie Rupert Murdoch), Worldnut Daily (Moonies), Christian Science
Monitor, McClatchy and more than the Jewish.
.
User: "FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 06:48:32 PM
Zizek, Angry Man! wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:_qednZsQqONekmfZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:



"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...



But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's


death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human



Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.


The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,


such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press


to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?


Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.



Fox (Aussie Rupert Murdoch), Worldnut Daily (Moonies), Christian Science
Monitor, McClatchy and more than the Jewish.

I'm fast asleep. Wasn't Murdoch's mom Jewish?
So what would that leave you with, Moonies and CSM?
That's it??
Which mainstream TV, radio stations, and newspapers
do the CSM and Moonies own apart from their flagship
operations?
--
MikeOscarPapa
Vote out all incumbents in November '06
Reform the Media:Boycott CBS, CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC
(C-SPAN is on warning)
http://www.freepress.net/
http://www.prwatch.org/
http://www.alternet.org/
http://mediamatters.org/
.
User: "Adam Albright"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 07:00:34 PM
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:48:32 -0400, FiveTwoAlphaOne
<MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote:


Fox (Aussie Rupert Murdoch), Worldnut Daily (Moonies), Christian Science
Monitor, McClatchy and more than the Jewish.


I'm fast asleep. Wasn't Murdoch's mom Jewish?
So what would that leave you with, Moonies and CSM?
That's it??

Which mainstream TV, radio stations, and newspapers
do the CSM and Moonies own apart from their flagship
operations?

There are several unwritten rules:
1. Never tell your wife the truth if she asks you if she
looks fat in a certain dress.
2. When asked 'how are you' always respond "fine" because
nobody really cares if you don't feel well or not.
3. The dinner your wife just cooked is ALWAYS delicious
even if it smells like and tastes like dog *****.
4. NEVER and I mean never criticize Jews or you will be
guaranteed to be greeted with a chorus of stupid anti-semite
remarks regardless how truthful your comments are.
.
User: "FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 08:57:49 PM
Adam Albright wrote:

On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 19:48:32 -0400, FiveTwoAlphaOne
<MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote:



Fox (Aussie Rupert Murdoch), Worldnut Daily (Moonies), Christian Science
Monitor, McClatchy and more than the Jewish.


I'm fast asleep. Wasn't Murdoch's mom Jewish?
So what would that leave you with, Moonies and CSM?
That's it??

Which mainstream TV, radio stations, and newspapers
do the CSM and Moonies own apart from their flagship
operations?



There are several unwritten rules:

1. Never tell your wife the truth if she asks you if she
looks fat in a certain dress.

2. When asked 'how are you' always respond "fine" because
nobody really cares if you don't feel well or not.

3. The dinner your wife just cooked is ALWAYS delicious
even if it smells like and tastes like dog *****.

4. NEVER and I mean never criticize Jews or you will be
guaranteed to be greeted with a chorus of stupid anti-semite
remarks regardless how truthful your comments are.

Yeah, but it's lost it's sting and is just BORING tripe
now. They're demented.
--
MikeOscarPapa
Vote out all incumbents in November '06
Reform the Media:Boycott CBS, CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC
(C-SPAN is on warning)
http://www.freepress.net/
http://www.prwatch.org/
http://www.alternet.org/
http://mediamatters.org/
.



User: "FiveTwoAlphaOne MikeOscarPapa.org"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 06:13:24 PM
Zizek, Angry Man! wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:_qednZsQqONekmfZnZ2dnUVZ_rmdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:

"FiveTwoAlphaOne" <MikeOscarPapa.org> wrote in message
news:mO6dnYANPdwNbGTZnZ2dnUVZ_sOdnZ2d@comcast.com...


Stan de SD wrote:



"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...



But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the


conflict's


death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human



Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on


civilians.


The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military


operations,


such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media


press


to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people



Really?


Really. Name some mainstream media that aren't.



Fox (Aussie Rupert Murdoch), Worldnut Daily (Moonies), Christian Science
Monitor, McClatchy and more than the Jewish.

Which of those aren't pro-Zionist and which have you
left out that are?
--
MikeOscarPapa
Vote out all incumbents in November '06
Reform the Media:Boycott CBS, CNN, FOX, ABC, NBC
(C-SPAN is on warning)
http://www.freepress.net/
http://www.prwatch.org/
http://www.alternet.org/
http://mediamatters.org/
.




User: "docremington"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 04:25:54 PM
FiveTwoAlphaOne wrote:

Stan de SD wrote:

"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message

But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -

Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on

civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on civilians.
The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military operations,
such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media press
to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people right
down to the granularity of the reporters and editors,
you're saying they're anti-Israel?

My opposition is supposed to see a conspiracy, when it sees one, after
all, and it looks like a definite evil jewish conspiracy, doesn't it?

That's pretty demented talk.

Jews control area 51 mind-bending rays, don't they?
.
User: "Stan de SD"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 05:11:35 PM
"docremington" <docremington@safe-mail.net> wrote in message
news:1157232354.619158.99070@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...

FiveTwoAlphaOne wrote:

Stan de SD wrote:

"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message

But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -

Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on

civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on

civilians.

The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military

operations,

such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often

after

leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The

Hizbollywood

crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media

press

to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce

their

little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...


So even though the majority of the major western press
is either owned or controlled by Jewish people right
down to the granularity of the reporters and editors,
you're saying they're anti-Israel?


My opposition is supposed to see a conspiracy, when it sees one, after
all, and it looks like a definite evil jewish conspiracy, doesn't it?

That's pretty demented talk.


Jews control area 51 mind-bending rays, don't they?

They also have a dastardly plot with ALCO and Reynolds to put secret
miniature holes in the tinfoil used to make those hats - just to let the
mind-bending rays in. :Oo
.



User: "Miriam Cohen"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 02 Sep 2006 09:49:29 PM
Stan de SD wrote:

"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...

But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -


Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on


civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on civilians.
The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military operations,
such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media press
to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlaVpqUXF0
--
L'Chaim
Miriam
In the beginning
the Word already was.
.

User: "boo-radley"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 03 Sep 2006 09:12:27 AM
Unfortunately they seem to have used cluster-weapons (US supplied)
....that's pretty indiscriminate...take your lies elsewhere.
No Place for Cluster Bombs
E-Mail This Print Save
Published: August 26, 2006 NY Times
All weapons kill and maim, but some are especially insidious -- like
cluster munitions, miniature explosives packed into a bomb, rocket or
artillery shell and designed to scatter over a wide area.
This week the State Department said it was investigating whether Israel
inappropriately used American-made cluster munitions in populated areas
during its monthlong campaign in Lebanon. Whatever the specific
findings of this investigation, the rules governing cluster bomb
exports and their use by American troops need to be tightened and more
strictly enforced.
Cluster munitions are useful against tanks, massed conventional forces
and other purely military targets. But they should never be used in
populated areas. By nature they kill indiscriminately.
Because some of the bomblets fail to explode on impact, the casualties
continue to mount long after the fighting stops. These harmless-looking
objects, often no larger than flashlight batteries, explode when
inadvertently jostled or picked up. Children mistake them for toys,
with tragic results.
Washington has strict rules about how American-made cluster munitions
are supposed to be used by foreign buyers. But in the heat of combat,
those rules are not always followed. Nor are United States forces as
careful as they should be. America has used cluster munitions in Iraq,
Afghanistan and Kosovo. Israel used them in past campaigns in Lebanon.
Russia used them in Chechnya.
Israel makes its own cluster munitions as well as buying more advanced
models from the United States. It used cluster weapons extensively in
its latest campaign in Lebanon, and the majority of the unexploded
bomblets that United Nations teams have found there so far have been
American-made.
Details of current understandings between the United States and Israel
on when American-made cluster munitions can be used are secret. But in
the past, Washington limited their use to military emergencies, like
the kind of attack on Israeli territory by multiple Arab armies that
last occurred in 1973. In the unlikely event of that happening again,
Washington should provide whatever cluster munitions Israel needs to
augment its own supplies.
But today's dangers are different, and require different responses.
Attacking guerrilla or terrorist sanctuaries in populated areas is not
a mission that calls for cluster weapons, and the United States should
not be supplying them.
Stan de SD wrote:

"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...


But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -

Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on

civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on civilians.
The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military operations,
such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media press
to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...

.
User: "docremington"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 03 Sep 2006 06:25:05 PM
boo-radley wrote:

Unfortunately they seem to have used cluster-weapons (US supplied)
...that's pretty indiscriminate...take your lies elsewhere.

Well, talking about lies, is there any evidence the IDF used cluster
bombs?

No Place for Cluster Bombs
E-Mail This Print Save
Published: August 26, 2006 NY Times
All weapons kill and maim, but some are especially insidious -- like
cluster munitions, miniature explosives packed into a bomb, rocket or
artillery shell and designed to scatter over a wide area.
This week the State Department said it was investigating whether Israel
inappropriately used American-made cluster munitions in populated areas
during its monthlong campaign in Lebanon. Whatever the specific
findings of this investigation, the rules governing cluster bomb
exports and their use by American troops need to be tightened and more
strictly enforced.

And what will they do? Punish themselves with lost sales and promoting
the israeli military industries?

Cluster munitions are useful against tanks, massed conventional forces
and other purely military targets. But they should never be used in
populated areas. By nature they kill indiscriminately.

Why? It depends on who populates the populated areas. And we know
hizbags are very much evil, aren't they?
"Hezbollah uses Christian villages as shields in missile attacks
A Christian from the village of Ain Ebel, who requested to remain
nameless for fear of a reprisal from Hezbollah, reported that he found
Hezbollah fighters setting up a launcher on his rooftop. Hezbollah
fighters ignored his pleas to stop and fired the missiles. He
immediately gathered his family and fled his home, which was bombed 15
minutes later by an Israeli air strike.
Hezbollah has also attempted to stop Christians from fleeing their
villages. According to Christian Solidarity International, on July 28,
Hezbollah fighters fired upon several Christians fleeing Rmeish with
their families, wounding two."
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=7314

Because some of the bomblets fail to explode on impact, the casualties
continue to mount long after the fighting stops. These harmless-looking
objects, often no larger than flashlight batteries, explode when
inadvertently jostled or picked up. Children mistake them for toys,
with tragic results.

The UN, being criminally negligent, as usual. With all those wars, they
promote, they could, at least, do something for the peace effort.

Washington has strict rules about how American-made cluster munitions
are supposed to be used by foreign buyers. But in the heat of combat,
those rules are not always followed. Nor are United States forces as
careful as they should be. America has used cluster munitions in Iraq,
Afghanistan and Kosovo. Israel used them in past campaigns in Lebanon.
Russia used them in Chechnya.

Israel makes its own cluster munitions as well as buying more advanced
models from the United States. It used cluster weapons extensively in
its latest campaign in Lebanon, and the majority of the unexploded
bomblets that United Nations teams have found there so far have been
American-made.

Details of current understandings between the United States and Israel
on when American-made cluster munitions can be used are secret. But in
the past, Washington limited their use to military emergencies, like
the kind of attack on Israeli territory by multiple Arab armies that
last occurred in 1973. In the unlikely event of that happening again,
Washington should provide whatever cluster munitions Israel needs to
augment its own supplies.

But today's dangers are different, and require different responses.
Attacking guerrilla or terrorist sanctuaries in populated areas is not
a mission that calls for cluster weapons, and the United States should
not be supplying them.


Stan de SD wrote:

"Zizek, Angry Man!" <gore@bush.net> wrote in message
news:cokKg.13995$%j7.8784@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net...


But Roth and Human Rights Watch didn't stop there. As the conflict's
death toll spiraled - with most of the casualties Lebanese civilians -

Human

Rights Watch also criticized Israel for indiscriminate attacks on

civilians.

Problem is that there were no indiscriminate Israeli attacks on civilians.
The IDF targeted places where Hizbollah was conducting military operations,
such as launching rockets targeting northern Israeli cities, often after
leafletting the areas to advise civilians to evacuate. The Hizbollywood
crowd took advantage of the leftist, lazy, and gullible Western media press
to round up bit actors (of the living and dead variety) to produce their
little propaganda pieces for US and EU viewers. Same old crap...

.
User: "Al Smith"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 04 Sep 2006 02:08:21 AM

Why? It depends on who populates the populated areas. And we know
hizbags are very much evil, aren't they?

Are they? How do we know? I don't know Hezbollah are evil. All
I've seen Hezbollah do is defend Lebanon from invasion. That's not
evil, that's heroic.
.
User: "Stan de SD"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 20 Sep 2006 02:32:52 AM
"Al Smith" <invalid@address.com> wrote in message
news:FhQKg.3605$0k7.2703@clgrps13...

Why? It depends on who populates the populated areas. And we know
hizbags are very much evil, aren't they?



Are they? How do we know? I don't know Hezbollah are evil.

We already knew you were an idiot, Al. No need to remind us...
.
User: "Al Smith"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 20 Sep 2006 03:58:01 PM

Why? It depends on who populates the populated areas. And we know

hizbags are very much evil, aren't they?




Are they? How do we know? I don't know Hezbollah are evil.



We already knew you were an idiot, Al. No need to remind us...

Hezbollah are freedom-fighters. They are fighting for the freedom
of Lebanon from Israeli aggression.
.
User: "Carl"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 21 Sep 2006 12:20:38 PM
Al Smith wrote:

Why? It depends on who populates the populated areas. And we know

hizbags are very much evil, aren't they?




Are they? How do we know? I don't know Hezbollah are evil.



We already knew you were an idiot, Al. No need to remind us...



Hezbollah are freedom-fighters. They are fighting for the freedom
of Lebanon from Israeli aggression.

This makes no sense Al. Lebanon was totally free from Israeli occupation for
six years until Hezbollah recently chose to initiate an aggressive act
against Israel.
What is true is that Hezbollah found it no longer had usefulness or
necessity so it decided to re-create a 'need' for itself. That along with
that Syria is still smarting from its losses to Israel in '67 and '73 and
Iran is seeking to position itself as the new middle east super-power; both
countries using Lebanon to their own ends by supporting Hezbollah as their
proxy.
What is true is that Lebanon is not free from Iranian occupation by proxy in
the form of Hezbollah.
.
User: "Al Smith"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 21 Sep 2006 01:59:19 PM

Hezbollah are freedom-fighters. They are fighting for the freedom

of Lebanon from Israeli aggression.



This makes no sense Al. Lebanon was totally free from Israeli occupation for
six years until Hezbollah recently chose to initiate an aggressive act
against Israel.

What is true is that Hezbollah found it no longer had usefulness or
necessity so it decided to re-create a 'need' for itself. That along with
that Syria is still smarting from its losses to Israel in '67 and '73 and
Iran is seeking to position itself as the new middle east super-power; both
countries using Lebanon to their own ends by supporting Hezbollah as their
proxy.

What is true is that Lebanon is not free from Iranian occupation by proxy in
the form of Hezbollah.

Israel has shown its eagerness to invade and occupy Lebanon in the
recent past, and that is what gave rise to the need for Hezbollah,
as a defensive militia against Israel. Lebanon does not face
threat of invasion from any other side. Only Israel is the
agressor. Only Israel has destroyed their infrastructure and
murdered countless innocent civilians.
Lebanon has every right to have any number of defensive military
forces within its borders, whether Israel likes it or not. Lebanon
is a free country. It doesn't need to ask Israel's permission for
anything.
.
User: "Carl"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 21 Sep 2006 11:28:43 PM


What is true is that Lebanon is not free from Iranian occupation by
proxy in the form of Hezbollah.



Israel has shown its eagerness to invade and occupy Lebanon in the
recent past, and that is what gave rise to the need for Hezbollah,
as a defensive militia against Israel. Lebanon does not face
threat of invasion from any other side. Only Israel is the
agressor. Only Israel has destroyed their infrastructure and
murdered countless innocent civilians.

There are a lot of necessary facts left out of your statements here Al.
Israel has no 'eagerness' to invade or occupy Lebanon. What could any
country possibly want from Lebanon?
The part you're leaving out is that attacks upon Israel have been initiated
from Lebanon. Israel counter-attacks only to stop those attacks. Those facts
are clear and virtually inarguable. Somehow people such as yourself turn
that part of the tale upside down and inside out. I can never get you on
this Al. If independent anti-Israel militias didn't exist within Lebanon,
Israel would never attack it. The lebanese government has an obligation to
control its borders and disarm unauthorized militias. Most sensible people
know that.


Lebanon has every right to have any number of defensive military
forces within its borders, whether Israel likes it or not. Lebanon
is a free country. It doesn't need to ask Israel's permission for
anything.

Fine. Just have those defensive military forces remain "defensive" Al and I
think you'll see a huge difference. It's when they become offensive and
initiate unwarranted attacks that the problems begin.
If you and I have different ideas of what and who started this last war,
then we have no basis for discussion of this topic Al. But I haven't heard
even anti-Israel protagonists deny that Hezbollah from Lebanon killed one
and captured two Israeli soldiers. Nor that Hezbollah has been launching
periodic rocket attacks aginst northern Israel towns for years, to which
Israel made no response before finally taking this last action.
Returning to the subject title of your originl post for a moment, it's not
that criticizing Israel makes one an anti-semite. It's the nature of the
criticism and the distortion of the facts, and therefore the underlying
motives that earns one that title.
.
User: "Al Smith"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 22 Sep 2006 03:05:30 AM

If you and I have different ideas of what and who started this last war,
then we have no basis for discussion of this topic Al. But I haven't heard
even anti-Israel protagonists deny that Hezbollah from Lebanon killed one
and captured two Israeli soldiers. Nor that Hezbollah has been launching
periodic rocket attacks aginst northern Israel towns for years, to which
Israel made no response before finally taking this last action.

Come on now, Carl. Hasn't Israel killed a few Lebanese? I seem to
remember that they killed a few a while back. Haven't they been
raiding across the border into Lebanon for a couple of decades?
Yet you only talk about the capture of two Israeli soldiers by
Hezbollah. Didn't start there, Carl. Started the first time Israel
decided to send troops into Lebanon, way back when, before there
even was Hezbollah. Israel created Hezbollah by invading and
occupying Lebanon. Now they have invaded it again. Maybe they want
to create another Hezbollah, or maybe they want to create a
super-Hezbollah. If so, they are going about it the right way.
.
User: "Carl"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 22 Sep 2006 01:32:48 PM
Al Smith wrote:

If you and I have different ideas of what and who started this last
war, then we have no basis for discussion of this topic Al. But I
haven't heard even anti-Israel protagonists deny that Hezbollah from
Lebanon killed one and captured two Israeli soldiers. Nor that
Hezbollah has been launching periodic rocket attacks aginst northern
Israel towns for years, to which Israel made no response before
finally taking this last action.



Come on now, Carl. Hasn't Israel killed a few Lebanese? I seem to
remember that they killed a few a while back. Haven't they been
raiding across the border into Lebanon for a couple of decades?

Yes Al, Israel has killed many Lebanese. And that is indeed unfortunate. But
that's not at all the point. It's also true that Israel occupied southern
Lebanon for many years as well. No one denies that. Hezbollah was formed to
force Israel to withdraw either. That's another indisputable fact. But NO,
Al, Israel does not "raid across the border" in the way that you imply by a
generalized remark like that. Even if Israel was imperialistic, which it
clearly is not, Lebanon certainly offers nothing that an invading army would
want. If Israel were imperialistic they would invade Syria and Egypt and
take over their oil fields. But I'm off topic.
Here's some history: Israel was being attcked by less organized terrorist
militia forces based in southern Lebanon for years. When the Lebanese
government proved unable or unwilling to put a stop to these attacks the
Israelis invaded Lebanon and established a buffer zone, the purpose of which
was to provide security for Israel's northern towns. They occupied the area
to maintain that buffer. The UN failed to intervene. Hezbollah formed with
its purpose being to drive the Israelis back out. After I think 18 years (I
may be wrong on the length of time) they succeeded. Good for them. But the
Israelis did withdraw and took their troops back home where they stayed,
leaving Lebanon alone, for six years. The real problem is that Hezbollah
realized its purpose for existence was gone. But, ah, they learned to like
the "power" they had mustered and they didn't want to disband or disarm. So,
with the urging of the very altruistic Iran, and help from obviously
unbiased Syria, Hezbollah initiated unprovoked attacks on the Israelis once
again leading to the last war which you were around to witness. This did not
consist merely of the raid across the border resulting in the capture of the
two living soldiers, but also consisted of periodic, albeit light and
irregular, rocketing of northern Israel, most of which the Israelis ignored
for awhile believe it or not. I don't know what country you live in Al, but
I can't imagine it allowing even a limited rocket bombing of its towns for
even one instance.

Yet you only talk about the capture of two Israeli soldiers by
Hezbollah. Didn't start there, Carl. Started the first time Israel
decided to send troops into Lebanon, way back when, before there
even was Hezbollah. Israel created Hezbollah by invading and
occupying Lebanon. Now they have invaded it again. Maybe they want
to create another Hezbollah, or maybe they want to create a
super-Hezbollah. If so, they are going about it the right way.

Most of this is answered above. You have some points Al, as long as you
decide to mark time by beginning a few months ago, or make gross
generalizations such as... "Started the first time Israel decided to send
troops into Lebanon, way back when" as if the Israeli expedition into
Lebanon "way back when" was unprovoked. And that's wrong Al. Israel has no
designs on Lebanon. But Lebanon is a disorganized country experiencing inner
turmoil, and unable to control its own territory, making it a perfect
festering ground for militias to gather and launch attacks into Israel. That
was happening for a long time before Israel invaded the first time and was
re-instituted by Hezbollah. That has to be stopped.
My 'history' is relatively accurate Al. I would appreciate it if you would
research it a little and see. The Lebanese are innocent dupes in a very
dangerous game and it is unfortunate for them. But then again they have a
responsibility to control their own borders and control the militias within
those borders. No country has, or should have, armed militias within it
which act independently of the central government.
.
User: "Al Smith"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 22 Sep 2006 06:36:14 PM

Yet you only talk about the capture of two Israeli soldiers by

Hezbollah. Didn't start there, Carl. Started the first time Israel
decided to send troops into Lebanon, way back when, before there
even was Hezbollah. Israel created Hezbollah by invading and
occupying Lebanon. Now they have invaded it again. Maybe they want
to create another Hezbollah, or maybe they want to create a
super-Hezbollah. If so, they are going about it the right way.



Most of this is answered above. You have some points Al, as long as you
decide to mark time by beginning a few months ago, or make gross
generalizations such as... "Started the first time Israel decided to send
troops into Lebanon, way back when" as if the Israeli expedition into
Lebanon "way back when" was unprovoked. And that's wrong Al. Israel has no
designs on Lebanon. But Lebanon is a disorganized country experiencing inner
turmoil, and unable to control its own territory, making it a perfect
festering ground for militias to gather and launch attacks into Israel. That
was happening for a long time before Israel invaded the first time and was
re-instituted by Hezbollah. That has to be stopped.

My 'history' is relatively accurate Al. I would appreciate it if you would
research it a little and see. The Lebanese are innocent dupes in a very
dangerous game and it is unfortunate for them. But then again they have a
responsibility to control their own borders and control the militias within
those borders. No country has, or should have, armed militias within it
which act independently of the central government.

See, you've got in your mind what you think Israel intended, and
what you think Lebanon intended, and what you think Hezbollah
intended. That is coloring your interpretation of the history, and
you don't even realize it. There's no brainwashing so effective as
the kind that passes completely unperceived.
Forget all that, and look at what happened. Count up the number of
people killed. Look at who's doing the invading. Look at who's
doing the occupying. Look at who's killing the soldiers in their
invading tanks, and who's killing the women and children huddled
in the basements of their own houses. And no, it isn't Hezbollah
rockets -- they aren't effective enough to root up bomb shelters.
It's smart bombs made right in the good ol' USA.
Sure, Hezbollah captured a couple of Israeli boys, but Israel's
been kidnapping foreign citizens in the dark from their beds for
decades, and holding them without trial. The whole clash with Gaza
and southern Lebanon was sparked by an Israeli kidnapping of two
Hamas people. Israel treated Hamas, the duly elected government of
the Palestinian people, like *****. What did they expect to happen?
Israel sends death squads around the world to assassinate anyone
they think may be a threat to their purposes. Is that a nice thing
to do, Carl? I mean, really? Assassination squads? Yet if, say,
Hamas or Hezbollah were to assassinate Olmert, there would be a
huge outcry. Oye, the terrorism! the terrorism! Christ, Carl,
Israeli agents have been doing that same stuff for decades, and
nobody criticizes them ... why? Because Jews control the media in
the West. Everyone knows this -- almost no one, except a few brave
souls such as Norm Chomsky, have the guts to say it.
Maybe we're moving into a phase where the propaganda *****
isn't quite as shiny and new as it used to be. I think there's a
chance that we are, thanks in large part to the madness of the
Bush administration. But the insanity of Israel certainly is
helping it along, also. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Western
world runs on *****. People know the truth, but most are too
nervous to speak it. But if the abuses become flagrant enough,
more will stand up to state the obvious, and maybe things will change.
.
User: "Carl"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 22 Sep 2006 10:23:27 PM

why? Because Jews control the media in
the West. Everyone knows this

There's just too much "stuff" in your last post for me to begin to try to
address, it's so loaded with one-sided oversimplifications and
misinformation, so I won't.
So let me just address the one statement quoted above.
I thought I was dealing with a reasonable person who's viewpoints were
different than mine. But out of all the things you said, the statement
quoted above is the one that shows your true colors Al. You see, that one is
called a 'generalization'. Generalizations are the basis of bigotry. I
didn't realize this before Al, but you are a bigot- probably an anti-semite.
Jews constitute less than 1% of the world's population Al. If you believe
they are good enough, smart enough, clever enough, powerful enough, or
whatever enough to control the media of the entire West then I would
strongly suggest you throw down your arms now and surrender for if the <1%
can control anything of the >99%, then they surely must be vastly superior.
And since they're so much smarter they're probably mostly right too.
Accept that premise and you'll have gained vast insight.
Al Smith wrote:

Yet you only talk about the capture of two Israeli soldiers by

Hezbollah. Didn't start there, Carl. Started the first time Israel
decided to send troops into Lebanon, way back when, before there
even was Hezbollah. Israel created Hezbollah by invading and
occupying Lebanon. Now they have invaded it again. Maybe they want
to create another Hezbollah, or maybe they want to create a
super-Hezbollah. If so, they are going about it the right way.



Most of this is answered above. You have some points Al, as long as
you decide to mark time by beginning a few months ago, or make gross
generalizations such as... "Started the first time Israel decided to
send troops into Lebanon, way back when" as if the Israeli
expedition into Lebanon "way back when" was unprovoked. And that's
wrong Al. Israel has no designs on Lebanon. But Lebanon is a
disorganized country experiencing inner turmoil, and unable to
control its own territory, making it a perfect festering ground for
militias to gather and launch attacks into Israel. That was
happening for a long time before Israel invaded the first time and
was re-instituted by Hezbollah. That has to be stopped. My 'history' is
relatively accurate Al. I would appreciate it if you
would research it a little and see. The Lebanese are innocent dupes
in a very dangerous game and it is unfortunate for them. But then
again they have a responsibility to control their own borders and
control the militias within those borders. No country has, or should
have, armed militias within it which act independently of the
central government.



See, you've got in your mind what you think Israel intended, and
what you think Lebanon intended, and what you think Hezbollah
intended. That is coloring your interpretation of the history, and
you don't even realize it. There's no brainwashing so effective as
the kind that passes completely unperceived.

Forget all that, and look at what happened. Count up the number of
people killed. Look at who's doing the invading. Look at who's
doing the occupying. Look at who's killing the soldiers in their
invading tanks, and who's killing the women and children huddled
in the basements of their own houses. And no, it isn't Hezbollah
rockets -- they aren't effective enough to root up bomb shelters.
It's smart bombs made right in the good ol' USA.

Sure, Hezbollah captured a couple of Israeli boys, but Israel's
been kidnapping foreign citizens in the dark from their beds for
decades, and holding them without trial. The whole clash with Gaza
and southern Lebanon was sparked by an Israeli kidnapping of two
Hamas people. Israel treated Hamas, the duly elected government of
the Palestinian people, like *****. What did they expect to happen?

Israel sends death squads around the world to assassinate anyone
they think may be a threat to their purposes. Is that a nice thing
to do, Carl? I mean, really? Assassination squads? Yet if, say,
Hamas or Hezbollah were to assassinate Olmert, there would be a
huge outcry. Oye, the terrorism! the terrorism! Christ, Carl,
Israeli agents have been doing that same stuff for decades, and
nobody criticizes them ... why? Because Jews control the media in
the West. Everyone knows this -- almost no one, except a few brave
souls such as Norm Chomsky, have the guts to say it.

Maybe we're moving into a phase where the propaganda *****
isn't quite as shiny and new as it used to be. I think there's a
chance that we are, thanks in large part to the madness of the
Bush administration. But the insanity of Israel certainly is
helping it along, also. As I've mentioned elsewhere, the Western
world runs on *****. People know the truth, but most are too
nervous to speak it. But if the abuses become flagrant enough,
more will stand up to state the obvious, and maybe things will change.

.
User: "Al Smith"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 22 Sep 2006 11:22:10 PM

why? Because Jews control the media in

the West. Everyone knows this



There's just too much "stuff" in your last post for me to begin to try to
address, it's so loaded with one-sided oversimplifications and
misinformation, so I won't.

So let me just address the one statement quoted above.

I thought I was dealing with a reasonable person who's viewpoints were
different than mine. But out of all the things you said, the statement
quoted above is the one that shows your true colors Al. You see, that one is
called a 'generalization'. Generalizations are the basis of bigotry. I
didn't realize this before Al, but you are a bigot- probably an anti-semite.

Jews constitute less than 1% of the world's population Al. If you believe
they are good enough, smart enough, clever enough, powerful enough, or
whatever enough to control the media of the entire West then I would
strongly suggest you throw down your arms now and surrender for if the <1%
can control anything of the >99%, then they surely must be vastly superior.
And since they're so much smarter they're probably mostly right too.

Accept that premise and you'll have gained vast insight.

What you've given is insight into your own limitations, Carl.
You've bought the lies. You bought them with so little thought
that you have no awareness that they are lies. You've never
questioned them. You've just assumed for years that what you were
told -- told -- is the truth. After all, Carl, why should you
question the truth, right? I mean, if everyone knows it's true,
why question it, right?
But it isn't true. That's the thing, it isn't true. You've
accepted it without question, and it isn't true. Before you can
examine what you believe, you have to get a glimmer of a suspicion
that it may not be all perfectly true. As long as you are willing
to just assume, without thinking, without question, that what you
"know" is true, you cannot -- can not -- ever question it. None of
us can question what we "know" is true, even if what we "know" to
be true is completely false.
I'm telling you that Jews control the media in the
English-speaking Western world, particularly in North America.
That's a fact. It's not something that can be disputed, once the
facts are known. Read Noam Chomsky. There's a writer who is
willing to state unpopular truths. Yes, Jews make up a tiny
minority of the population of America. That makes it all the more
remarkable that they control the media, doesn't it? Quite an
achievement for them.
Hollywood is the most obvious example. By "Hollywood" I mean the
American film and television industry. Jews have such a complete
control over Hollywood that is it utterly laughable to dispute it.
Laughable. It isn't being critical or rational to say that they
don't, it's being silly. I'm sorry if you've been told all your
life that to state this obvious fact automatically makes someone
anti-Semitic. It happens to be the simple fact.
So, what are the consequences to Jews having complete dominance
and control over all aspects of the film industry? Well, we might
speculate that it would tend to cause Jewish causes to be favored,
and any criticism of Israel -- a primary Jewish cause -- to be
muted. This is something that can be debated. I think it is quite
reasonable to speculate that the total control of Jews over
Hollywood might tend to cause Jewish issues to be treated with
favoritism in films and on television.
Jews also happen to control the news media, particularly in North
America, but also in Great Britain. Not so completely as they
control Hollywood, but their dominant position is undeniable. It
might reasonably be speculated (by those capable of independent
thought) that this would influence news coverage of Jewish issues,
particularly news about Israel and the Middle East. I believe it
does. So does Chomsky and many others not afraid to speak out on
such touchy, emotional topics.
Look, if you can't free your mind enough to see the obvious, when
it's right in front of you, nobody can do it for you. Do some
Googling, find out for yourself the influence of Jews over the
Hollywood film industry. Go on, try it. Take a look for yourself
and see what you come up with. When you have the facts, consider
what influence the dominance of Jews over Hollywood might have on
how the situation in Israel is presented to the American public.
.
User: "Carl"

Title: Re: Criticize Israel, Anti-Semite! 23 Sep 2006 01:07:18 PM
Al Smith wrote:

why? Because Jews control the media in

the West. Everyone knows this



There's just too much "stuff" in your last post for me to begin to
try to address, it's so loaded with one-sided oversimplifications and
misinformation, so I won't.

So let me just address the one statement quoted above.

I thought I was dealing with a reasonable person who's viewpoints
were different than mine. But out of all the things you said, the
statement quoted above is the one that shows your true colors Al.
You see, that one is called a 'generalization'. Generalizations are
the basis of bigotry. I didn't realize this before Al, but you are a
bigot- probably an anti-semite. Jews constitute less than 1% of the
world's population Al. If you
believe they are good enough, smart enough, clever enough, powerful
enough, or whatever enough to control the media of the entire West
then I would strongly suggest you throw down your arms now and
surrender for if the <1% can control anything of the >99%, then
they surely must be vastly superior. And since they're so much
smarter they're probably mostly right too. Accept that premise and you'll
have gained vast insight.



What you've given is insight into your own limitations, Carl.
You've bought the lies. You bought them with so little thought
that you have no awareness that they are lies. You've never
questioned them. You've just assumed for years that what you were
told -- told -- is the truth. After all, Carl, why should you
question the truth, right? I mean, if everyone knows it's true,
why question it, right?

But it isn't true. That's the thing, it isn't true. You've
accepted it without question, and it isn't true. Before you can
examine what you believe, you have to get a glimmer of a suspicion
that it may not be all perfectly true. As long as you are willing
to just assume, without thinking, without question, that what you
"know" is true, you cannot -- can not -- ever question it. None of
us can question what we "know" is true, even if what we "know" to
be true is completely false.

I'm telling you that Jews control the media in the
English-speaking Western world, particularly in North America.
That's a fact. It's not something that can be disputed, once the
facts are known. Read Noam Chomsky. There's a writer who is
willing to state unpopular truths. Yes, Jews make up a tiny
minority of the population of America. That makes it all the more
remarkable that they control the media, doesn't it? Quite an
achievement for them.

Hollywood is the most obvious example. By "Hollywood" I mean the
American film and television industry. Jews have such a complete
control over Hollywood that is it utterly laughable to dispute it.
Laughable. It isn't being critical or rational to say that they
don't, it's being silly. I'm sorry if you've been told all your
life that to state this obvious fact automatically makes someone
anti-Semitic. It happens to be the simple fact.

So, what are the consequences to Jews having complete dominance
and control over all aspects of the film industry? Well, we might
speculate that it would tend to cause Jewish causes to be favored,
and any criticism of Israel -- a primary Jewish cause -- to be
muted. This is something that can be debated. I think it is quite
reasonable to speculate that the total control of Jews over
Hollywood might tend to cause Jewish issues to be treated with
favoritism in films and on television.

Jews also happen to control the news media, particularly in North
America, but also in Great Britain. Not so completely as they
control Hollywood, but their dominant position is undeniable. It
might reasonably be speculated (by those capable of independent
thought) that this would influence news coverage of Jewish issues,
particularly news about Israel and the Middle East. I believe it
does. So does Chomsky and many others not afraid to speak out on
such touchy, emotional topics.

Look, if you can't free your mind enough to see the obvious, when
it's right in front of you, nobody can do it for you. Do some
Googling, find out for yourself the influence of Jews over the
Hollywood film industry. Go on, try it. Take a look for yourself
and see what you come up with. When you have the facts, consider
what influence the dominance of Jews over Hollywood might have on
how the situation in Israel is presented to the American public.

Al, Hollywood was invented by, founded by, conceived by, and started working
by Jews. Have you ever heard of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) Warner, Fox, and
Loew? Read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MGM
As such, of COURSE it was dominated by Jews, so promulgating that idea as
some sort of 'insight' serves little purpose. It's like saying Volkswagon is
dominated by Germans: a trite and trivial statement in light of its
obviousness.
Before the "Jewish" hollywood, American filmaking consisted of non-Jewish,
Gentile dominated influence represented by this statement (from a
documentary entitled Hidden Hollywood):
"The programme then went on to ridicule Thomas Edison and the other early
film innovators:-
"These old-stock Protestants championed a view of America where the white
upper classes ruled and the immigrants knew their place. They produced
racist films such as Birth of a Nation and The Klansman, which played on
White America's fear of racial intermixing." "
And then the documentary goes on to say this:
"Hollywood moguls took a different view of African Americans than that of
pre-Jewish Gentile film-makers. The Hollywood Jews wanted to be accepted as
Americans. Their pictures advocated assimilation - not just for Jews but for
everyone."
Of course, besides overlooking these changes for the BETTER which Jews
arguably made, your bigotry is evident in your promoting the belief that
Hollywood is STILL 'controlled' by Jews. Hollywood, like other things, has
become assimilated into the American culture and adopted by other groups.
Many of the older "Jewish-controlled" studios are now owned by large
corporations such as Viacom and Sony. As well we also now have our Spike
Lees, Mel Gibsons, Martin Scorceses, Sylvetser Stallones, Arnold
Schwarzeneggers, Francis Ford Coppolas. We have epic movies such as The Last
Passion of Christ, which (arguably) portray Jews in a poor light, etc. and
so on, all combined enabling the presentation of a myriad of points of view.
Besides all I've said here, Al, I only have your repetitive phrase "I'm
telling you" to support your position and