Dead Soldiers



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Bob"
Date: 25 Sep 2004 09:55:27 PM
Object: Dead Soldiers
DEAD SOLDIERS
BY RALPH PETERS
September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944, the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World War and
that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe and the
Pacific.
We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.
In WWII, broadcasts from Tokyo Rose in Japan and from Axis Sally in Germany
warned our troops that their lives were being squandered in vain, that they were
dying for big business and "the Jew" Roosevelt.
Today, we have a presidential candidate, the conscienceless Sen. John Kerry,
doing the work of the enemy propagandists of yesteryear.
Is there nothing Kerry won't say to win the election? Is there no position he
won't change? Doesn't he care anything for the sacrifices of our troops in Iraq?
And if he does care about our soldiers and Marines, why is he broadcasting
remarks that insist - against all hard evidence - that the terrorists are
winning?
Has he seen the situation with his own eyes? I'll gladly tell him how to get
there. I'll even be his guide. And he can smell what remains of Saddam's mass
graves - with new ones still being discovered. He can taste the joy of freedom
among the Kurds. He can see the bustling commerce throughout the country -
despite the violence that alone makes headlines.
Above all, he could see the magnificent performance of our troops, their
dedication and professionalism. And their humanity, their goodness.
But Kerry doesn't want to see those things. He's reverting to form. Just as he
lied about our troops three decades ago, encouraging our enemies of the day and
worsening the suffering of our POWs in North Vietnam, today he's pandering to a
new enemy.
Imagine the encouragement the terrorists, insurgents and global extremists draw
from Kerry's declarations of defeat, from his insistence that our efforts in
Iraq and in the War on Terror have failed.
As he always does, Kerry slips in qualifiers. Of course, Iraq's important. And
he'll fight terror, too. It's just that the Bush administration doesn't know how
to do anything. A Kerry presidency would let us withdraw our troops, collect
more allies, succeed where others have "failed" and win the hearts and minds of
the whole, wide world.
Earlier this week, Kerry made a much-ballyhooed speech offering four
generalizations about how he would fix Iraq. But there was no detail, not a
single nut or a lonely bolt. And the current administration is already doing
most of what Kerry suggested.
As for involving the French and Germans, the truth is that they'd do more harm
than good. These are the corrupt cynics who made billions from the U.N.
Oil-for-Food program while the Iraqi people suffered. The French kiss up to
every dictator willing to wink in their direction. The German military barely
exists - it's just an employment agency for uniformed bureaucrats - and the
French military's sole competence lies in slaughtering unarmed black Africans.
As for the United Nations, any day now we'll see a huge banner hanging from its
Manhattan headquarters: Dictators For Kerry.
Even if I detested everything about President Bush, I'd vote for him just to rub
it in the faces of the Germans, the French and all of the tyrants rooting for
the Iraqi people to slip back into despotism. We Americans choose our own
presidents, and we don't take orders from Europeans or from any of Kerry's other
Swiss boarding-school pals.
I think it's great that Kerry speaks fluent French. I wish he'd go to France
where he could speak it all the time.
In an election year, our engagement in Iraq is a legitimate topic for sober
debate. But Kerry isn't serious. All he does is to declare defeat. He certainly
doesn't want to be al Qaeda's candidate, but he's made himself into their man
through his irresponsibility.
If Kerry were insisting, without caveats, that we're going to stay the course
and win, while backing up his criticisms with convincing details of how he would
improve our efforts, that would be fine. But his mad claims of disaster and his
inability to maintain a firm position unquestionably give aid and comfort to the
enemy.
The terrorists and their allies already intended to increase the level of
violence in Iraq before November. But Kerry's pandering has encouraged them to
pull out all the stops. I wish it were otherwise, that our election process had
more integrity, but the truth is that every roadside blast and car bomb in Iraq
is meant to support John Kerry.
Meanwhile, Kerry has assembled the most despicable cast of has-beens and failed
officials in campaign history. He's represented by the likes of Jamie Rubin - a
Clintonite who so loved America that he moved to London, returning to our shores
only to tell real Americans how we need to vote.
Putting Rubin on the talk-show circuit demonstrates how badly the Democratic
elite is out of touch with the country it claims to represent. With his
permanent sneer and his condescending snicker, Rubin represents nearly all that
working Americans - and our troops - despise about today's Dems.
In 1944, the Democrats had FDR. In 2004, they've got the stretch-limo version of
Mike Dukakis.
There was a wartime election in 1864, too. The Democratic Party's candidate,
former Gen. George McClellan, ran on a platform that declared President Abraham
Lincoln's policy a failure. The price of McClellan's rhetoric was a prolonged
war and tens of thousands of dead Americans.
In 1864, the citizens of the North were steadfast. They rejected the Democratic
Party's warnings of defeat and saved the Union. In 2004, the American people,
North and South, East and West, need to reject the cynical lies of John F. Kerry
and vote to support our troops and save Iraq.
Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer and the author of "Beyond Baghdad:
Postmodern War and Peace."
.

User: "hue"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 06:16:11 PM
Big difference is is that we are the aggressors and no one has a
large army with intentions of taking over the country.
So was Tricky Dicky Nixon guilty of treason since one of his
promises was to get us out of Viet Nam.
On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 21:55:27 -0500, "Bob" <no@email.address> wrote:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944, the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World War and
that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe and the
Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.

In WWII, broadcasts from Tokyo Rose in Japan and from Axis Sally in Germany
warned our troops that their lives were being squandered in vain, that they were
dying for big business and "the Jew" Roosevelt.

Today, we have a presidential candidate, the conscienceless Sen. John Kerry,
doing the work of the enemy propagandists of yesteryear.

Is there nothing Kerry won't say to win the election? Is there no position he
won't change? Doesn't he care anything for the sacrifices of our troops in Iraq?

And if he does care about our soldiers and Marines, why is he broadcasting
remarks that insist - against all hard evidence - that the terrorists are
winning?

Has he seen the situation with his own eyes? I'll gladly tell him how to get
there. I'll even be his guide. And he can smell what remains of Saddam's mass
graves - with new ones still being discovered. He can taste the joy of freedom
among the Kurds. He can see the bustling commerce throughout the country -
despite the violence that alone makes headlines.

Above all, he could see the magnificent performance of our troops, their
dedication and professionalism. And their humanity, their goodness.

But Kerry doesn't want to see those things. He's reverting to form. Just as he
lied about our troops three decades ago, encouraging our enemies of the day and
worsening the suffering of our POWs in North Vietnam, today he's pandering to a
new enemy.

Imagine the encouragement the terrorists, insurgents and global extremists draw
from Kerry's declarations of defeat, from his insistence that our efforts in
Iraq and in the War on Terror have failed.

As he always does, Kerry slips in qualifiers. Of course, Iraq's important. And
he'll fight terror, too. It's just that the Bush administration doesn't know how
to do anything. A Kerry presidency would let us withdraw our troops, collect
more allies, succeed where others have "failed" and win the hearts and minds of
the whole, wide world.

Earlier this week, Kerry made a much-ballyhooed speech offering four
generalizations about how he would fix Iraq. But there was no detail, not a
single nut or a lonely bolt. And the current administration is already doing
most of what Kerry suggested.

As for involving the French and Germans, the truth is that they'd do more harm
than good. These are the corrupt cynics who made billions from the U.N.
Oil-for-Food program while the Iraqi people suffered. The French kiss up to
every dictator willing to wink in their direction. The German military barely
exists - it's just an employment agency for uniformed bureaucrats - and the
French military's sole competence lies in slaughtering unarmed black Africans.

As for the United Nations, any day now we'll see a huge banner hanging from its
Manhattan headquarters: Dictators For Kerry.

Even if I detested everything about President Bush, I'd vote for him just to rub
it in the faces of the Germans, the French and all of the tyrants rooting for
the Iraqi people to slip back into despotism. We Americans choose our own
presidents, and we don't take orders from Europeans or from any of Kerry's other
Swiss boarding-school pals.

I think it's great that Kerry speaks fluent French. I wish he'd go to France
where he could speak it all the time.

In an election year, our engagement in Iraq is a legitimate topic for sober
debate. But Kerry isn't serious. All he does is to declare defeat. He certainly
doesn't want to be al Qaeda's candidate, but he's made himself into their man
through his irresponsibility.

If Kerry were insisting, without caveats, that we're going to stay the course
and win, while backing up his criticisms with convincing details of how he would
improve our efforts, that would be fine. But his mad claims of disaster and his
inability to maintain a firm position unquestionably give aid and comfort to the
enemy.

The terrorists and their allies already intended to increase the level of
violence in Iraq before November. But Kerry's pandering has encouraged them to
pull out all the stops. I wish it were otherwise, that our election process had
more integrity, but the truth is that every roadside blast and car bomb in Iraq
is meant to support John Kerry.

Meanwhile, Kerry has assembled the most despicable cast of has-beens and failed
officials in campaign history. He's represented by the likes of Jamie Rubin - a
Clintonite who so loved America that he moved to London, returning to our shores
only to tell real Americans how we need to vote.

Putting Rubin on the talk-show circuit demonstrates how badly the Democratic
elite is out of touch with the country it claims to represent. With his
permanent sneer and his condescending snicker, Rubin represents nearly all that
working Americans - and our troops - despise about today's Dems.

In 1944, the Democrats had FDR. In 2004, they've got the stretch-limo version of
Mike Dukakis.

There was a wartime election in 1864, too. The Democratic Party's candidate,
former Gen. George McClellan, ran on a platform that declared President Abraham
Lincoln's policy a failure. The price of McClellan's rhetoric was a prolonged
war and tens of thousands of dead Americans.

In 1864, the citizens of the North were steadfast. They rejected the Democratic
Party's warnings of defeat and saved the Union. In 2004, the American people,
North and South, East and West, need to reject the cynical lies of John F. Kerry
and vote to support our troops and save Iraq.

Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer and the author of "Beyond Baghdad:
Postmodern War and Peace."

.

User: "Peter Vos"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 01:19:46 AM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of
1944, the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the
Second World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw
American troops from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.

Imagine if in 1941 Roosevelt had lied about why we were declaring war on
Japan. We would have called it an abuse of power. And we would have been
right.
Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 10:56:09 AM
"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns957017E684E43bti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of
1944, the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the
Second World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw
American troops from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Imagine if in 1941 Roosevelt had lied about why we were declaring war on
Japan. We would have called it an abuse of power. And we would have been
right.

Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?

1. They are different countries.
2. One was a sneak attack, the other was not.
3. Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions.
4. Iraq was an evil regime, the USA was not.
5. Iraq was a danger to freedom, the USA was not.
6. Iraq was a danger to a stable and free middle east, the USA was not.
7. No government official position, other than Iraq, was that Iraq
did not have WMD.
8. The USA had a coalition of nations, Japan did not.
9. Iraq had used WMD, the USA had not.
10. etc., etc., etc.
.
User: "ELC"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 10:13:09 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message news:<xDB5d.52800$as2.48303@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns957017E684E43bti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of
1944, the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the
Second World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw
American troops from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Imagine if in 1941 Roosevelt had lied about why we were declaring war on
Japan. We would have called it an abuse of power. And we would have been
right.

Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?


1. They are different countries.
2. One was a sneak attack, the other was not.
3. Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions.

So is Israel. When do we invade?
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 11:06:01 PM
"ELC" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:ebfa4074.0409271913.2bd18e8a@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<xDB5d.52800$as2.48303@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns957017E684E43bti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of
1944, the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the
Second World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw
American troops from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Imagine if in 1941 Roosevelt had lied about why we were declaring war on
Japan. We would have called it an abuse of power. And we would have been
right.

Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?


1. They are different countries.
2. One was a sneak attack, the other was not.
3. Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions.


So is Israel. When do we invade?

Israel is our friend.
.
User: "ELC"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 28 Sep 2004 03:57:13 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message news:<kp56d.75396$zT6.3104@bignews5.bellsouth.net>...

"ELC" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:ebfa4074.0409271913.2bd18e8a@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<xDB5d.52800$as2.48303@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns957017E684E43bti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of
1944, the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the
Second World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw
American troops from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Imagine if in 1941 Roosevelt had lied about why we were declaring war on
Japan. We would have called it an abuse of power. And we would have been
right.

Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?


1. They are different countries.
2. One was a sneak attack, the other was not.
3. Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions.


So is Israel. When do we invade?


Israel is our friend.

I almost forgot, heh heh. They are an interesting friend; because of
their policies we are hated by Arabs. It makes you wonder why we
tolerate it and keep on giving them money. Especially since Israel
refuses to sign any weapons treaties regarding "weapons of mass
destruction".
.

User: "Peter Vos"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 28 Sep 2004 08:46:23 AM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message news:<kp56d.75396$zT6.3104@bignews5.bellsouth.net>...

"ELC" <eric@elcmedia.com> wrote in message
news:ebfa4074.0409271913.2bd18e8a@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<xDB5d.52800$as2.48303@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns957017E684E43bti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of
1944, the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the
Second World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw
American troops from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Imagine if in 1941 Roosevelt had lied about why we were declaring war on
Japan. We would have called it an abuse of power. And we would have been
right.

Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?


1. They are different countries.
2. One was a sneak attack, the other was not.
3. Iraq was in violation of UN resolutions.


So is Israel. When do we invade?


Israel is our friend.

I'm sure most Israelis are friendly to the US.
Sharon....eh... not so much.
.




User: "Michael Ejercito"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 11:33:13 AM
Peter Vos <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<Xns957017E684E43bti@216.196.97.131>...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net:

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of
1944, the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the
Second World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw
American troops from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Imagine if in 1941 Roosevelt had lied about why we were declaring war on
Japan. We would have called it an abuse of power. And we would have been
right.

Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?

There was no ceasefire agreement between Japan and US requiring US
to submit to inspections.
Iraq'sd refusal to cooperate was cited as the reason for Operation
Desert Fox.
Michael
.

User: "Foxtrot"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 02:26:21 AM
Peter Vos <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote:

Riddle me this:
How is our attacking Iraq any different than Japan attacking Pearl
Harbor?

We hadn't surrendered to Japan in an earlier war and
promised to allow inspections of Pearl Harbor, dumbass.
.


User: "Paolo Pizzi"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 02:49:53 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944,
the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second
World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops
from Europe and the Pacific.

Imagine if on December 8, 1941 FDR had declared
war on Turkey instead of Japan!!! (It certainly would
have been **A LOT** easier than defeating Japan...)
Now THAT is a more appropriate comparison...
.
User: "Eraser"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 06:05:39 PM
Paolo Pizzi wrote:

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944,
the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second
World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops
from Europe and the Pacific.



Imagine if on December 8, 1941 FDR had declared
war on Turkey instead of Japan!!! (It certainly would
have been **A LOT** easier than defeating Japan...)

Now THAT is a more appropriate comparison...


Isn't that essentially what he did? Japan attacked us, and we went to
war with Germany & Italy even though they never did a thing to us.
.
User: "Paolo Pizzi"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 06:51:36 PM
"Eraser" <eraser92156@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0vKdnRBbjbUsAcXcRVn-tA@adelphia.com...

Imagine if on December 8, 1941 FDR had declared
war on Turkey instead of Japan!!! (It certainly would
have been **A LOT** easier than defeating Japan...)

Now THAT is a more appropriate comparison...

Isn't that essentially what he did? Japan attacked us, and we went to war
with Germany & Italy even though they never did a thing to us.

Except that Italy and Germany DECLARED WAR on us
the very same day...
.
User: "Eraser"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 28 Sep 2004 03:05:57 PM
"Paolo Pizzi" <paolopizziDONOTSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<cI16d.20580$QJ3.18825@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...

"Eraser" <eraser92156@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0vKdnRBbjbUsAcXcRVn-tA@adelphia.com...

Imagine if on December 8, 1941 FDR had declared
war on Turkey instead of Japan!!! (It certainly would
have been **A LOT** easier than defeating Japan...)

Now THAT is a more appropriate comparison...

Isn't that essentially what he did? Japan attacked us, and we went to war
with Germany & Italy even though they never did a thing to us.


Except that Italy and Germany DECLARED WAR on us
the very same day...

Following your logic, Clinton should've led an unrelenting military
campaign against Al-Qaeda, in the Middle East and worldwide, when they
declared war on us in 1996....
.
User: "Eric da Red"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 28 Sep 2004 04:50:17 PM
In article <29ebe820.0409281205.cba7c2a@posting.google.com>,
Eraser <eraser92156@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Paolo Pizzi" <paolopizziDONOTSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:<cI16d.20580$QJ3.18825@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>...

"Eraser" <eraser92156@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0vKdnRBbjbUsAcXcRVn-tA@adelphia.com...

Imagine if on December 8, 1941 FDR had declared
war on Turkey instead of Japan!!! (It certainly would
have been **A LOT** easier than defeating Japan...)

Now THAT is a more appropriate comparison...

Isn't that essentially what he did? Japan attacked us, and we went to war
with Germany & Italy even though they never did a thing to us.


Except that Italy and Germany DECLARED WAR on us
the very same day...


Following your logic, Clinton should've led an unrelenting military
campaign against Al-Qaeda, in the Middle East and worldwide, when they
declared war on us in 1996....

Except that al-Qaida isn't a country.
Clinton did go after al-Qaida like it is a criminal enterprise,
which it is.
--
Good Debate Question Of The Week: "If Andrew Card came to you in that
Florida classroom and told you that your family had been carjacked on
September 11, would you still have sat there for seven minutes and done
nothing?" -- http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/9/23/22549/7128
.


User: "* US *"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 29 Sep 2004 10:11:18 AM
On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 23:51:36 GMT, "Paolo Pizzi" <paolopizziDONOTSPAM@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

"Eraser" <eraser92156@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0vKdnRBbjbUsAcXcRVn-tA@adelphia.com...

Imagine if on December 8, 1941 FDR had declared
war on Turkey instead of Japan!!! (It certainly would
have been **A LOT** easier than defeating Japan...)

Now THAT is a more appropriate comparison...

Isn't that essentially what he did? Japan attacked us, and we went to war
with Germany & Italy even though they never did a thing to us.


Except that Italy and Germany DECLARED WAR on us
the very same day...

Exactly.
Remember, too, that the Bush crime family resolved
to help the Germans rather than the Americans even
after that occurred.
They have no problem getting Americans killed for their
own fun and profit.
.




User: "Ashland Henderson"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 03:17:06 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message news:<scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944, the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World War and
that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe and the
Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.

Yep. But then we were attacked by Japan and declared war on Japan and
Germany, as they did to us. Oddly enough we were never attacked by
Iraq and did not declare war on it. Therefore your whole case collapses
since you are making illogical and dishonest connections between two
different events.
Rest of nonsense deleted.

Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer and the author of "Beyond Baghdad:
Postmodern War and Peace."

Too bad he never learned anything about logic during his career.
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 03:28:56 PM
"Ashland Henderson" <maceanruig@astound.net> wrote in message
news:441d41d1.0409261217.690b3715@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944, the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World War
and
that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe and
the
Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Yep. But then we were attacked by Japan and declared war on Japan and
Germany, as they did to us. Oddly enough we were never attacked by
Iraq and did not declare war on it.

Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.

Therefore your whole case collapses
since you are making illogical and dishonest connections between two
different events.

It's not my "case". It is someone else's case.
I just posted it to start a conversation.

Rest of nonsense deleted.

Rest of your nonsense deleted.
.
User: "Paolo Pizzi"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 02:52:16 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:fDF5d.53589$as2.37572@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

"Ashland Henderson" <maceanruig@astound.net> wrote in message
Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.

"Painting" an aircraft with a radar is not exactly
the same as shooting, boob...
.

User: "Ashland Henderson"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 11:44:43 AM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message news:<fDF5d.53589$as2.37572@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

"Ashland Henderson" <maceanruig@astound.net> wrote in message
news:441d41d1.0409261217.690b3715@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944, the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World War
and
that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe and
the
Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Yep. But then we were attacked by Japan and declared war on Japan and
Germany, as they did to us. Oddly enough we were never attacked by
Iraq and did not declare war on it.


Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.

The Constitution.

Therefore your whole case collapses
since you are making illogical and dishonest connections between two
different events.


It's not my "case". It is someone else's case.
I just posted it to start a conversation.

You're certainly defending it like it's yours.

Rest of nonsense deleted.


Rest of your nonsense deleted.

Whatever.
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 05:46:34 PM
"Ashland Henderson" <maceanruig@astound.net> wrote in message
news:441d41d1.0409270844.3841e911@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<fDF5d.53589$as2.37572@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

"Ashland Henderson" <maceanruig@astound.net> wrote in message
news:441d41d1.0409261217.690b3715@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944,
the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World
War
and
that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe
and
the
Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Yep. But then we were attacked by Japan and declared war on Japan and
Germany, as they did to us. Oddly enough we were never attacked by
Iraq and did not declare war on it.


Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.


The Constitution.

Therefore your whole case collapses
since you are making illogical and dishonest connections between two
different events.


It's not my "case". It is someone else's case.
I just posted it to start a conversation.


You're certainly defending it like it's yours.

I do not believe that Kerry has committed
treason. From what we have been told, I
believe the invasion of Iraq was a good
move.
.
User: "Ashland Henderson"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 28 Sep 2004 10:56:06 AM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message news:<SJ06d.74476$zT6.26462@bignews5.bellsouth.net>...

"Ashland Henderson" <maceanruig@astound.net> wrote in message
news:441d41d1.0409270844.3841e911@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<fDF5d.53589$as2.37572@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

"Ashland Henderson" <maceanruig@astound.net> wrote in message
news:441d41d1.0409261217.690b3715@posting.google.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:<scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944,
the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World
War
and
that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe
and
the
Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.


Yep. But then we were attacked by Japan and declared war on Japan and
Germany, as they did to us. Oddly enough we were never attacked by
Iraq and did not declare war on it.


Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.


The Constitution.

Therefore your whole case collapses
since you are making illogical and dishonest connections between two
different events.


It's not my "case". It is someone else's case.
I just posted it to start a conversation.


You're certainly defending it like it's yours.


I do not believe that Kerry has committed
treason. From what we have been told, I
believe the invasion of Iraq was a good
move.

I don't believe he has either but from what I
understand the invasion of Iraq was a very bad
move. It's always a judgement call.
.



User: "Peter Vos"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 05:26:50 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:fDF5d.53589$as2.37572
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.

Show me where the "no fly zone" was stipulated in the surrender.
Show me where the War Powers Act was a) relevant b) followed
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 06:06:11 PM
"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9570BBDCD640Ebti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:fDF5d.53589$as2.37572
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.


Show me where the "no fly zone" was stipulated in the surrender.

Show me where the War Powers Act was a) relevant b) followed

I answered your question, which you
snipped. Do your own research.
.
User: "Peter Vos"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 08:51:05 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:FWH5d.54030$as2.33164
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9570BBDCD640Ebti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:fDF5d.53589$as2.37572
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act.


Show me where the "no fly zone" was stipulated in the surrender.

Show me where the War Powers Act was a) relevant b) followed


I answered your question, which you
snipped. Do your own research.



Uh... no you didn't......
Show me where in UN Resolution 687 you can find the right of the US to
impose no-fly zones.
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm
Show me where the Bush administration followed specific provisions of WPA
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/warpow.html
Specifically 4a, and 5b
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 10:14:23 PM
"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9570DE8647DD2bti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:FWH5d.54030$as2.33164
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9570BBDCD640Ebti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:fDF5d.53589$as2.37572
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act


Show me where the "no fly zone" was stipulated in the surrender.

Show me where the War Powers Act was a) relevant b) followed


I answered your question, which you
snipped. Do your own research.


Uh... no you didn't......

Show me where in UN Resolution 687 you can find the right of the US to
impose no-fly zones.

I never mentioned the UN or the no-fly
zones. There has been much debate
on the "legality" of the no-fly zones, and
I believe the US and UK based it on 688,
not 687.

http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm

Show me where the Bush administration followed specific provisions of WPA

http://www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/warpow.html

Specifically 4a, and 5b

4a involves reporting. Bush doesn't report to me. If
you know of some violation of 4a or 5b, I suggest
you pursue it through proper channels, or let the
media know so they can pursue it in your name.
Until some violation is litigated, it stands as the
legality of the war in Iraq.
.
User: "Peter Vos"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 07:10:09 AM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:nzL5d.55477$as2.45707
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:
] "Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
] news:Xns9570DE8647DD2bti@216.196.97.131...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in news:FWH5d.54030$as2.33164
@bignews3.bellsouth.net:

Iraq shooting at our aircraft. War Powers Act


]]]] Show me where the "no fly zone" was stipulated in the surrender.
]]]]
]]]] Show me where the War Powers Act was a) relevant b) followed


I answered your question, which you
snipped. Do your own research.


]] Uh... no you didn't......
]]
]] Show me where in UN Resolution 687 you can find the right of the US to
]] impose no-fly zones.


I never mentioned the UN or the no-fly
zones. There has been much debate
on the "legality" of the no-fly zones, and
I believe the US and UK based it on 688,
not 687.

You just entered the Bill Bonde Universe of doubletalk... You make claims
you don't back up and when challenged claim you never made them and/or
cite irrelevant material.
We're done here.
.
User: "Paolo Pizzi"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 27 Sep 2004 02:53:39 PM
"Peter Vos" <pvos58@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9571536C79990bti@216.196.97.131...

You just entered the Bill Bonde Universe of doubletalk... You make claims
you don't back up and when challenged claim you never made them and/or
cite irrelevant material.

Meet boob, he always does that...
.








User: "ChickenHawk"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 02:54:21 AM
You are so incredibly stupid.
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944,
the candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second
World War and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops
from Europe and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.

In WWII, broadcasts from Tokyo Rose in Japan and from Axis Sally in
Germany warned our troops that their lives were being squandered in vain,
that they were dying for big business and "the Jew" Roosevelt.

Today, we have a presidential candidate, the conscienceless Sen. John
Kerry, doing the work of the enemy propagandists of yesteryear.

Is there nothing Kerry won't say to win the election? Is there no position
he won't change? Doesn't he care anything for the sacrifices of our troops
in Iraq?

And if he does care about our soldiers and Marines, why is he broadcasting
remarks that insist - against all hard evidence - that the terrorists are
winning?

Has he seen the situation with his own eyes? I'll gladly tell him how to
get there. I'll even be his guide. And he can smell what remains of
Saddam's mass graves - with new ones still being discovered. He can taste
the joy of freedom among the Kurds. He can see the bustling commerce
throughout the country - despite the violence that alone makes headlines.

Above all, he could see the magnificent performance of our troops, their
dedication and professionalism. And their humanity, their goodness.

But Kerry doesn't want to see those things. He's reverting to form. Just
as he lied about our troops three decades ago, encouraging our enemies of
the day and worsening the suffering of our POWs in North Vietnam, today
he's pandering to a new enemy.

Imagine the encouragement the terrorists, insurgents and global extremists
draw from Kerry's declarations of defeat, from his insistence that our
efforts in Iraq and in the War on Terror have failed.

As he always does, Kerry slips in qualifiers. Of course, Iraq's important.
And he'll fight terror, too. It's just that the Bush administration
doesn't know how to do anything. A Kerry presidency would let us withdraw
our troops, collect more allies, succeed where others have "failed" and
win the hearts and minds of the whole, wide world.

Earlier this week, Kerry made a much-ballyhooed speech offering four
generalizations about how he would fix Iraq. But there was no detail, not
a single nut or a lonely bolt. And the current administration is already
doing most of what Kerry suggested.

As for involving the French and Germans, the truth is that they'd do more
harm than good. These are the corrupt cynics who made billions from the
U.N. Oil-for-Food program while the Iraqi people suffered. The French kiss
up to every dictator willing to wink in their direction. The German
military barely exists - it's just an employment agency for uniformed
bureaucrats - and the French military's sole competence lies in
slaughtering unarmed black Africans.

As for the United Nations, any day now we'll see a huge banner hanging
from its Manhattan headquarters: Dictators For Kerry.

Even if I detested everything about President Bush, I'd vote for him just
to rub it in the faces of the Germans, the French and all of the tyrants
rooting for the Iraqi people to slip back into despotism. We Americans
choose our own presidents, and we don't take orders from Europeans or from
any of Kerry's other Swiss boarding-school pals.

I think it's great that Kerry speaks fluent French. I wish he'd go to
France where he could speak it all the time.

In an election year, our engagement in Iraq is a legitimate topic for
sober debate. But Kerry isn't serious. All he does is to declare defeat.
He certainly doesn't want to be al Qaeda's candidate, but he's made
himself into their man through his irresponsibility.

If Kerry were insisting, without caveats, that we're going to stay the
course and win, while backing up his criticisms with convincing details of
how he would improve our efforts, that would be fine. But his mad claims
of disaster and his inability to maintain a firm position unquestionably
give aid and comfort to the enemy.

The terrorists and their allies already intended to increase the level of
violence in Iraq before November. But Kerry's pandering has encouraged
them to pull out all the stops. I wish it were otherwise, that our
election process had more integrity, but the truth is that every roadside
blast and car bomb in Iraq is meant to support John Kerry.

Meanwhile, Kerry has assembled the most despicable cast of has-beens and
failed officials in campaign history. He's represented by the likes of
Jamie Rubin - a Clintonite who so loved America that he moved to London,
returning to our shores only to tell real Americans how we need to vote.

Putting Rubin on the talk-show circuit demonstrates how badly the
Democratic elite is out of touch with the country it claims to represent.
With his permanent sneer and his condescending snicker, Rubin represents
nearly all that working Americans - and our troops - despise about today's
Dems.

In 1944, the Democrats had FDR. In 2004, they've got the stretch-limo
version of Mike Dukakis.

There was a wartime election in 1864, too. The Democratic Party's
candidate, former Gen. George McClellan, ran on a platform that declared
President Abraham Lincoln's policy a failure. The price of McClellan's
rhetoric was a prolonged war and tens of thousands of dead Americans.

In 1864, the citizens of the North were steadfast. They rejected the
Democratic Party's warnings of defeat and saved the Union. In 2004, the
American people, North and South, East and West, need to reject the
cynical lies of John F. Kerry and vote to support our troops and save
Iraq.

Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer and the author of "Beyond Baghdad:
Postmodern War and Peace."

.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dead Soldiers 26 Sep 2004 10:49:12 AM
"ChickenHawk" <repug@awol.run> wrote in message
news:YPWdned-ao8s6MvcRVn-pg@comcast.com...

You are so incredibly stupid.

Is that an example of an intelligent post?




"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:scq5d.107525$Np2.84918@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

DEAD SOLDIERS

BY RALPH PETERS

September 23, 2004 -- IMAGINE if, in the presidential election of 1944, the
candidate opposing FDR had insisted that we were losing the Second World War
and that, if elected, he would begin to withdraw American troops from Europe
and the Pacific.

We would have called it treason. And we would have been right.

In WWII, broadcasts from Tokyo Rose in Japan and from Axis Sally in Germany
warned our troops that their lives were being squandered in vain, that they
were dying for big business and "the Jew" Roosevelt.

Today, we have a presidential candidate, the conscienceless Sen. John Kerry,
doing the work of the enemy propagandists of yesteryear.

Is there nothing Kerry won't say to win the election? Is there no position he
won't change? Doesn't he care anything for the sacrifices of our troops in
Iraq?

And if he does care about our soldiers and Marines, why is he broadcasting
remarks that insist - against all hard evidence - that the terrorists are
winning?

Has he seen the situation with his own eyes? I'll gladly tell him how to get
there. I'll even be his guide. And he can smell what remains of Saddam's mass
graves - with new ones still being discovered. He can taste the joy of
freedom among the Kurds. He can see the bustling commerce throughout the
country - despite the violence that alone makes headlines.

Above all, he could see the magnificent performance of our troops, their
dedication and professionalism. And their humanity, their goodness.

But Kerry doesn't want to see those things. He's reverting to form. Just as
he lied about our troops three decades ago, encouraging our enemies of the
day and worsening the suffering of our POWs in North Vietnam, today he's
pandering to a new enemy.

Imagine the encouragement the terrorists, insurgents and global extremists
draw from Kerry's declarations of defeat, from his insistence that our
efforts in Iraq and in the War on Terror have failed.

As he always does, Kerry slips in qualifiers. Of course, Iraq's important.
And he'll fight terror, too. It's just that the Bush administration doesn't
know how to do anything. A Kerry presidency would let us withdraw our troops,
collect more allies, succeed where others have "failed" and win the hearts
and minds of the whole, wide world.

Earlier this week, Kerry made a much-ballyhooed speech offering four
generalizations about how he would fix Iraq. But there was no detail, not a
single nut or a lonely bolt. And the current administration is already doing
most of what Kerry suggested.

As for involving the French and Germans, the truth is that they'd do more
harm than good. These are the corrupt cynics who made billions from the U.N.
Oil-for-Food program while the Iraqi people suffered. The French kiss up to
every dictator willing to wink in their direction. The German military barely
exists - it's just an employment agency for uniformed bureaucrats - and the
French military's sole competence lies in slaughtering unarmed black
Africans.

As for the United Nations, any day now we'll see a huge banner hanging from
its Manhattan headquarters: Dictators For Kerry.

Even if I detested everything about President Bush, I'd vote for him just to
rub it in the faces of the Germans, the French and all of the tyrants rooting
for the Iraqi people to slip back into despotism. We Americans choose our own
presidents, and we don't take orders from Europeans or from any of Kerry's
other Swiss boarding-school pals.

I think it's great that Kerry speaks fluent French. I wish he'd go to France
where he could speak it all the time.

In an election year, our engagement in Iraq is a legitimate topic for sober
debate. But Kerry isn't serious. All he does is to declare defeat. He
certainly doesn't want to be al Qaeda's candidate, but he's made himself into
their man through his irresponsibility.

If Kerry were insisting, without caveats, that we're going to stay the course
and win, while backing up his criticisms with convincing details of how he
would improve our efforts, that would be fine. But his mad claims of disaster
and his inability to maintain a firm position unquestionably give aid and
comfort to the enemy.

The terrorists and their allies already intended to increase the level of
violence in Iraq before November. But Kerry's pandering has encouraged them
to pull out all the stops. I wish it were otherwise, that our election
process had more integrity, but the truth is that every roadside blast and
car bomb in Iraq is meant to support John Kerry.

Meanwhile, Kerry has assembled the most despicable cast of has-beens and
failed officials in campaign history. He's represented by the likes of Jamie
Rubin - a Clintonite who so loved America that he moved to London, returning
to our shores only to tell real Americans how we need to vote.

Putting Rubin on the talk-show circuit demonstrates how badly the Democratic
elite is out of touch with the country it claims to represent. With his
permanent sneer and his condescending snicker, Rubin represents nearly all
that working Americans - and our troops - despise about today's Dems.

In 1944, the Democrats had FDR. In 2004, they've got the stretch-limo version
of Mike Dukakis.

There was a wartime election in 1864, too. The Democratic Party's candidate,
former Gen. George McClellan, ran on a platform that declared President
Abraham Lincoln's policy a failure. The price of McClellan's rhetoric was a
prolonged war and tens of thousands of dead Americans.

In 1864, the citizens of the North were steadfast. They rejected the
Democratic Party's warnings of defeat and saved the Union. In 2004, the
American people, North and South, East and West, need to reject the cynical
lies of John F. Kerry and vote to support our troops and save Iraq.

Ralph Peters is a retired Army officer and the author of "Beyond Baghdad:
Postmodern War and Peace."



.



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