Les Cargill wrote:
Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Tiny Human Ferret wrote:
Les Cargill wrote:
Basic economics also says that overloading a lifeboat is probably
win-win.
Up 'til it sinks.
My point exactly.
But in some cases -- like when you're adrift in deep ocean in a
gathering storm -- you stop thinking about "basic economics" and you
start thinking about preserving your own life.
This is a reallty lousy metaphor. It's a really big lifeboat.
The immigrants are in steerage.
They're rioting in steerage, rocking the boat, and threatening to drill
holes in the bottom of it unless everyone else jumps out.
<dictionary>
Invasion In*va"sion, n. L. invasio: cf. F. invasion. See
Invade.
1. The act of invading; the act of encroaching upon the
rights or possessions of another; encroachment; trespass.
2. A warlike or hostile entrance into the possessions or
domains of another; the incursion of an army for conquest
or plunder.
3. The incoming or first attack of anything hurtful or
pernicious; as, the invasion of a disease.
Syn: Invasion, Irruption, Inroad.
Usage: Invasion is the generic term, denoting a forcible
entrance into a foreign country. Incursion signifies a
hasty and sudden invasion. Irruption denotes
particularly violent invasion. Inroad is entry by some
unusual way involving trespass and injury.
</dictionary>
We can use every definition except for (2).
I'm familiar with the word; it's just inappropriate as
a description. There's no element of danger at the
present time. IMO, of course.
Your opinion is noted and severely discounted.
Unfortunately, we all know why it's very difficult to
enforce immigration law. It's probably easier to simply
deal with the result.
Not at all. It's exceptionally easy to enforce immigration law.
It simply needs to be done, that's all.
I'd look a little at where the Border Patrol is with
respect to this effort. It's an impossible task,
and it's particularly impervious to money being thrown
at it.
No money is being thrown at it. In fact, budgets are being cut all over
the Border Patrol.
I personally consider relations with people as with
individuals
Really? So much for "basic economics" which deals with people as
aggregates, as statistics.
No. I mean that it's a capricious and arbitrary thing
to label a guy "an illegal" and throw him back
across the border.
No, either they've got the paperwork that has admitted them legally, or
they're illegals. If so, toss them out. What, are you stupid? This is
obvious.
- not so much as member of some nation
or another. So anybody who can maange to get here
earns some respect,
They get respect if they come here LEGALLY.
so long as that person doesn't
exhibit egregiously antisocial or criminal behavior
when they get here.
Sneaking into the country is the first crime. Getting fake ID is
another crime. Using fake ID is another crime. The list goes on and on.
Those are not crimes *per se*. There is no particular tort.
***** tort. Tort law isn't applicable, that's civil action for damages.
See the US Code. Title 18, I think. www.law.cornell.edu/uscode is the
URL, I seem to recall. Second illegal entry is a felony, forgery of ID
is a felony, misrepresentation with false ID is federal fraud and
possibly a Secret Service violation depending on the instrument, such as
SS cards or credit cards obtained fraudulently with false ID such as
forged/counterfeit SS cards.
I'm afraid that either you don't know what you're talking about, or
think that I don't know what I'm talking about. I do know, and you are
incredibly wrong. Please be such a fool as to say "Cites, please". My
little ducks are all in a row and I live for idiots who spout this kind
of crap. "'Cause I got something for 'em."
They are violations of the law. But they are not particularly criminal.
Fraud? Forgery? Identity Theft? Fraudulent siphoning of SS benefits?
Credit Fraud?
No arm was stretched to strike a nose. It's really
a "papers are not in order", and it's easily tractable
by forgery for those who have the wherewithal.
Okay. Next time you get your identity stolen, your credit ruined, put on
a no-fly list, and have warrants issued in your name because some
wetback forged your identity, don't come crying to me about how "no harm
was done".
Allow me to summarize: you're a dolt.
If the results of border trespass were not so mixed,
it would be easier to agree. But gee, the dirt
looks the same on both sides of the river.
And this ignores the vast quantities of migrant laborers
who fly home for winter and such.
Those are LEGAL visitors on work visas. They are not illegal aliens.
Not all are legal. Many are here on tourist visas.
What the hell has this got to do with anything? If they don't have work
visas, they shouldn't be working here, if they're on tourist visas and
go home, that is what is supposed to happen. Are you trying to be dense,
or are you actually stupid or illogical?
These guys are
a powerful economic good for America.
That's why we give the WORKER VISAS.
They get
better marginal utility per dollar than domestic
laborers would.
I guess you missed the recent report about the astonishing success and
profitability of automation of raisin-picking?
No. It doesn't surprise me. In that case, should that prove
aastonishingly efficient, then the folks who pick raisins'll
have a bad market to sell in.
They are sitting on their hands wondering why they came here. I expect
they'll turn to crime.
Now we only need 5 people to do the work of 50. This means that all of
the people sneaking in to pick raisins are out of work and out of
luck. That's not getting better utility. Domestically manufactured
MACHINES are of much higher utility.
As such machines exist, this is almost universally true.
And as many more such machines exist, perhaps the USA will one day again
be known for an industrial manufacturing nation. Remember, we got our
start as a superpower for making and marketing agricultural equipment.
--
The incapacity of a weak and distracted government may
often assume the appearance, and produce the effects,
of a treasonable correspondence with the public enemy.
--Gibbon, "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"
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"Sometimes, Evil drives a mini-van."
--Desperate Housewives
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