Dialing and the Democrats



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Topic: Politics > Politics-USA
User: "Captain Compassion"
Date: 12 May 2006 01:37:20 PM
Object: Dialing and the Democrats
Dialing and the Democrats
New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006
No sooner had the man who ran the National Security Agency for years
been nominated to head the CIA than USA Today rushed out details of
our efforts to use technical means to find terrorists using the
phones. And no sooner had USA Today disclosed details of an apparent
attempt by the National Security Agency to defend Americans from
terrorists than the Democratic Party and its leading politicians and
interest groups went on the attack. Not against the terrorists but
against President Bush. "This is another example of the Bush
Administration misleading the American people," said a spokeswoman for
the Democratic National Committee, Stacie Paxton.
Senator Kennedy of Massachusetts called the program "abusive" and said
"Today's shocking disclosures make it more important than ever for the
Republican Congress to end its complicity in the White House cover up
of its massive domestic surveillance program. When three major
telephone companies are supplying the administration with records of
all Americans regardless of any hint of wrongdoing, Congress can't
look the other way." Rep. Harold Ford Jr., a Democrat of Tennessee,
went on Fox News Channel to call the news "disturbing." Senator
Clinton pronounced herself "deeply disturbed."
Mrs. Clinton might want to have a talk with her husband. It was
President Clinton who signed into law the Communications Assistance
for Law Enforcement Act of 1994, after it was passed in both the House
and Senate by a voice vote. That law is an act "to make clear a
telecommunications carrier's duty to cooperate in the interception of
communications for law enforcement purposes, and for other purposes."
The act made clear that a court order isn't the only lawful way of
obtaining call information, saying, "A telecommunications carrier
shall ensure that any interception of communications or access to
call-identifying information effected within its switching premises
can be activated only in accordance with a court order or other lawful
authorization."
The law that President Clinton signed into law and that was approved
by voice votes in 1994 by a Democrat-majority House and a
Democrat-majority Senate not only made clear the phone companies'
"duty" to cooperate, it authorized $500 million in taxpayer funds to
reimburse the phone companies for equipment "enabling the government,
pursuant to a court order or other lawful authorization, to access
call-identifying information that is reasonably available to the
carrier." Again, the law, by referring to "other lawful
authorization," states clearly that a court order isn't the only form
of lawful authorization possible.
President Bush struck exactly the right notes yesterday. "So far we've
been very successful in preventing another attack on our soil," Mr.
Bush said. "As a general matter, every time sensitive intelligence is
leaked, it hurts our ability to defeat this enemy. Our most important
job is to protect the American people from another attack, and we will
do so within the laws of our country." If he seemed calm about the
latest disclosures, we can't help wondering whether it's because he
recognizes that when Americans go to sleep at night, they're less
worried about the "danger" that the government is looking for
terrorists than they are about the danger that terrorists are looking
for them.
This is the issue that the Democrats of the Howard-Dean-John-Kerry era
just don't seem to prepared to credit. The Democrats who controlled
the White House and both houses of Congress in 1994 showed signs of
understanding the national security issues at stake here when they
passed the law. Their understanding seems to have eroded since then.
It can't be that they feel America faces less of a threat - if
anything, the attacks of September 11, 2001, make the case for such
programs even stronger. What's changed isn't the enemy threat but the
party that now controls the White House. Which explains why Mrs.
Clinton is "deeply disturbed" about activities legal under a law her
husband signed.
--
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilizaton is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.

User: "Joe S."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 12 May 2006 02:04:26 PM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006

Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration required
warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???
Game over.
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
.
User: "monkeyhawk"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 12 May 2006 02:38:59 PM
"Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote

"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006


Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration
required warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???

Game over.

Has anyone checked out the National Archives lately?
The Republicans have long tried to white-out the first half of the 2nd
Amendment, maybe they've obliterated the whole "warrants" part of the 4th.
And the 1st.
And the 6th.
And the 14th.
And the 9th.
And the....
Just *which* is the "conservative* party these days?
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 12 May 2006 03:13:15 PM
On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:38:59 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

"Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote

"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006


Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration
required warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???

Game over.


Has anyone checked out the National Archives lately?

The Republicans have long tried to white-out the first half of the 2nd
Amendment, maybe they've obliterated the whole "warrants" part of the 4th.

And the 1st.

And the 6th.

And the 14th.

And the 9th.

And the....

Just *which* is the "conservative* party these days?

That job belongs to the courts.
--
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilizaton is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "monkeyhawk"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 12 May 2006 03:33:12 PM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:22r962dqcbtmqlglfu14ef8llld2vpqkp2@4ax.com...

On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:38:59 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

"Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote

"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006


Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration
required warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???

Game over.


Has anyone checked out the National Archives lately?

The Republicans have long tried to white-out the first half of the 2nd
Amendment, maybe they've obliterated the whole "warrants" part of the 4th.

And the 1st.

And the 6th.

And the 14th.

And the 9th.

And the....

Just *which* is the "conservative* party these days?

That job belongs to the courts.

*Activist* judges?!
.
User: "F. H."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 12 May 2006 04:38:28 PM
monkeyhawk wrote:

"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:22r962dqcbtmqlglfu14ef8llld2vpqkp2@4ax.com...

On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:38:59 -0700, "monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net>
wrote:

"Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote

"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006

Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration
required warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???

Game over.

Has anyone checked out the National Archives lately?

The Republicans have long tried to white-out the first half of the 2nd
Amendment, maybe they've obliterated the whole "warrants" part of the 4th.

And the 1st.

And the 6th.

And the 14th.

And the 9th.

And the....

Just *which* is the "conservative* party these days?

That job belongs to the courts.


*Activist* judges?!


Only democrats have *Activist* judges. ;) Compassionate conservatives
have judges that know how to interpret the bibl....er, constitution.
.




User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 12 May 2006 02:50:53 PM
On Fri, 12 May 2006 15:04:26 -0400, "Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006


Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration required
warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???

"enabling the government, pursuant to a court order or *other lawful
authorization*, to access call-identifying information that is
reasonably available to the carrier."


Game over.

The term warrant doesn't even appear in the bill. You are not even
playing Joe.
http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/calea/calea_law.html
--
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilizaton is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Joseph Welch"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 13 May 2006 01:38:05 PM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:6ap96292noq4fdmvs8m80vnu3reqbkam4j@4ax.com...

The term warrant doesn't even appear in the bill.

U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 2703 Required disclosure of customer
communications or records
Contents of Wire or Electronic Communications in Electronic
Storage. - A governmental entity may require the disclosure by a
provider of electronic communication service of the contents of a
wire or electronic communication, that is in electronic storage in
an electronic communications system for one hundred and eighty days
or less, only pursuant to a WARRANT issued using the procedures
described in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure by a court
with jurisdiction over the offense under investigation or
equivalent State WARRANT.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.
User: "Captain Compassion"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 13 May 2006 07:51:07 PM
On Sat, 13 May 2006 11:38:05 -0700, "Joseph Welch"
<seattledemocracy@freewebspace.com> wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:6ap96292noq4fdmvs8m80vnu3reqbkam4j@4ax.com...

The term warrant doesn't even appear in the bill.


U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 2703 Required disclosure of customer
communications or records

Contents of Wire or Electronic Communications in Electronic
Storage. - A governmental entity may require the disclosure by a
provider of electronic communication service of the contents of a
wire or electronic communication, that is in electronic storage in
an electronic communications system for one hundred and eighty days
or less, only pursuant to a WARRANT issued using the procedures
described in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure by a court
with jurisdiction over the offense under investigation or
equivalent State WARRANT.

We ain't on the same page boy. I was talking about the Communications
Assistance for Law Enforcement Act not US code.
http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/calea/calea_law.html
--
"There are no absolute certainties in this universe. A man must try to
whip order into a yelping pack of probabilities, and uniform success is
impossible." -- Jack Vance
"Civilizaton is the interval between Ice Ages." -- Will Durant.
"War is God's way of teaching Americans geography" -- Ambrose Bierce
"Long term commitment in relationships is only necessary because it takes
so damn long to raise children. Marriage may well be some kind of trick
to keep the males around beyond sexual satiation." -- Captain Compassion
"Progress is the increasing control of the environment by life.
--Will Durant
Joseph R. Darancette
daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net
.
User: "Joseph Welch"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 13 May 2006 10:57:10 PM
"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:bevc62d5u4ftkbic58vi773mod2908lmji@4ax.com...

The term warrant doesn't even appear in the bill.


U.S. Code : Title 18 : Section 2703 Required disclosure of customer
communications or records

Contents of Wire or Electronic Communications in Electronic
Storage. - A governmental entity may require the disclosure by a
provider of electronic communication service of the contents of a
wire or electronic communication, that is in electronic storage in
an electronic communications system for one hundred and eighty days
or less, only pursuant to a WARRANT issued using the procedures
described in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure by a court
with jurisdiction over the offense under investigation or
equivalent State WARRANT.


We ain't on the same page boy.

No *****, Sherlock.
I love America. You hate it.
We're in different BOOKS.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.



User: ""

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 09:46:31 AM
On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:50:53 -0700, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 15:04:26 -0400, "Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006


Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration required
warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???

"enabling the government, pursuant to a court order or *other lawful
authorization*, to access call-identifying information that is
reasonably available to the carrier."

What other lawful authorization is there besides a court order? Bush's
whims? Qwest asked for a court order and one was not forthcoming.

The term warrant doesn't even appear in the bill. You are not even
playing Joe.
http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/calea/calea_law.html

Doesn't have to appear - lawful seems to be a very key word here. And
its becoming more and more apparent that 'lawful' means at the whim of
the administration.
WB Yeats
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 10:31:18 AM
<wbyeats@ireland.com> wrote in message
news:6dge62t1md04ju1hn7iu3giuk4h9kpahfv@4ax.com...

On Fri, 12 May 2006 12:50:53 -0700, Captain Compassion
<daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote:

On Fri, 12 May 2006 15:04:26 -0400, "Joe S." <anon@mous.com> wrote:


"Captain Compassion" <daranc@NOSPAMverizon.net> wrote in message
news:46l962dfk41158r64mi2q48hlf14c2r96k@4ax.com...

Dialing and the Democrats

New York Sun Editorial
May 12, 2006


Warrants. The legislation passed under the Clinton administration required
warrants signed by judges. Why did you omit that part???

"enabling the government, pursuant to a court order or *other lawful
authorization*, to access call-identifying information that is
reasonably available to the carrier."


What other lawful authorization is there besides a court order? Bush's
whims? Qwest asked for a court order and one was not forthcoming.

Can a policeman search you without a court
order? Are you searched before you board an
airplane without a court order?


The term warrant doesn't even appear in the bill. You are not even
playing Joe.
http://www.epic.org/privacy/wiretap/calea/calea_law.html


Doesn't have to appear - lawful seems to be a very key word here. And
its becoming more and more apparent that 'lawful' means at the whim of
the administration.

WB Yeats

.
User: "Joseph Welch"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 11:08:35 AM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:Y2I9g.42720$Kn4.33100@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

Can a policeman search you without a court
order?

Under certain circumstances, yes. What police cannot do is show up at your
house or simply stop you on the street and search you or even your car.

Are you searched before you board an airplane without a court order?

Yep. But you don't have to be if you don't want to.
Getting on an airplane is a voluntary act.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 11:13:29 AM
"Joseph Welch" <seattledemocracy@freewebspace.com> wrote in message
news:aCI9g.4031$zH6.2754@fe04.buzzardnews.com...


"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:Y2I9g.42720$Kn4.33100@bignews2.bellsouth.net...

Can a policeman search you without a court
order?


Under certain circumstances, yes.

So your original question has been answered.

What police cannot do is show up at your house or simply stop you on the
street and search you or even your car.

Are you searched before you board an airplane without a court order?


Yep. But you don't have to be if you don't want to.

Getting on an airplane is a voluntary act.

Is making a phone call mandatory or voluntary?
.
User: "monkeyhawk"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 12:47:59 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote

Can a policeman search you without a court
order?


Under certain circumstances, yes.

But still, there needs to be at least a nod to "probable cause." If you
watch "Cops" or other "reality" cop procedurals, you'll notice that police
routinely *ask permission* to search a car. If a suspect refuses permission
to search a car, that has come to be accepted as probable cause. As a
practical matter, that usually means they call in a canine unite and if the
dog indicates the presence of contraband, probable cause is established.
Most people, if they have nothing in their vehicles, give permission. Most
people agree to have their vehicle searched on the spot, rather than wait an
hour or two for the canine unite to arrive...or 12 hours or so for a warrant
to be applied for and served.

So your original question has been answered.

What is it about modern "conservatives" who think all the answers of the
universe fit on a bumper sticker? Fact is, the government (*this*
government, especially) is incrementally trying every day to erode your
personal rights to privacy. Cops consider every suspect guilty until proven
innocent; its the nature of the game. They know the nuances of court
rulings and constitutional rights better than civilians. They know they can
lie, intimidate, "ask permission" to search, deny you access to legal
counsel...in ways that they can slip though loopholes unless the -- rare --
individual stands up for his or her rights.

What police cannot do is show up at your house or simply stop you on the
street and search you or even your car.

Are you searched before you board an airplane without a court order?


Yep. But you don't have to be if you don't want to.

Getting on an airplane is a voluntary act.

Again, read the fine print on your ticket or flight summary. Buried in all
that legal mumbo-jumbo about the Helsinki Convention that tells you how much
an airline owes you if they lose your luggage is arcane, but legally
specific, language in which the passenger consents to security procedures.

Is making a phone call mandatory or voluntary?

As a rule, I hate "slippery slope" arguments. But see where this one is
going. The technology exists for just about anyone to listen in on anyone
else's phone calls and private conversations, read their mail, e-mail,
newsgroup posts, etc. Certain of these communications are not bestowed with
an expectation of privacy. Wiretaps, bugging, intercepting mail -- all are
too easy to do, so the courts have determined that any information that
comes to law enforcement must be authorized by a court order; otherwise that
information cannot be used in a court of law.
Under the guise of "fighting terrorism" the Shrub Administration has decided
they can eavesdrop on anyone because they have the right to incarcerate
anyone without bothering with a court of law, legal counsel, trial by jury,
habeas corpus. In December, George WMD Bush said NSA was listening *only*
to "international calls to and from terrorists" without obtaining a FISA
court order. Turns out they're monitoring "hundred of millions" of
*domestic* calls, too. There are plenty of Bush Cultists who post to this
forum who bandy about words like "traitor" and "terrorist" to anyone who
disagrees with the administration... indeed, anyone who makes fun of the
Bushies (Stephen Colbert, for example). Is it that hard to imagine a future
administration that might consider, say, anti-abortion activists in league
with clinic-bombers and doctor-shooters and, by association, domestic
terrorists?
If Bush succeeds in negating your 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendment rights,
some future administration will find wiping out your 2nd Amendment "rights"
to be a piece of cake.
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 02:18:43 PM
"monkeyhawk" <monkeyhawk@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ehK9g.29040$fG3.3857@dukeread09...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote

Can a policeman search you without a court
order?


Under certain circumstances, yes.


But still, there needs to be at least a nod to "probable cause."

Agreed.

If you watch "Cops" or other "reality" cop procedurals, you'll notice that
police routinely *ask permission* to search a car. If a suspect refuses
permission to search a car, that has come to be accepted as probable cause.
As a practical matter, that usually means they call in a canine unite and if
the dog indicates the presence of contraband, probable cause is established.

Most people, if they have nothing in their vehicles, give permission. Most
people agree to have their vehicle searched on the spot, rather than wait an
hour or two for the canine unite to arrive...or 12 hours or so for a warrant
to be applied for and served.

So your original question has been answered.


What is it about modern "conservatives" who think all the answers of the
universe fit on a bumper sticker?

If post quality is measured by the pound, you
may have a point.

Fact is, the government (*this* government, especially) is incrementally
trying every day to erode your personal rights to privacy. Cops consider
every suspect guilty until proven innocent; its the nature of the game. They
know the nuances of court rulings and constitutional rights better than
civilians. They know they can lie, intimidate, "ask permission" to search,
deny you access to legal counsel...in ways that they can slip though loopholes
unless the -- rare -- individual stands up for his or her rights.

What police cannot do is show up at your house or simply stop you on the
street and search you or even your car.

Are you searched before you board an airplane without a court order?


Yep. But you don't have to be if you don't want to.

Getting on an airplane is a voluntary act.


Again, read the fine print on your ticket or flight summary. Buried in all
that legal mumbo-jumbo about the Helsinki Convention that tells you how much
an airline owes you if they lose your luggage is arcane, but legally specific,
language in which the passenger consents to security procedures.

Is making a phone call mandatory or voluntary?


As a rule, I hate "slippery slope" arguments. But see where this one is
going. The technology exists for just about anyone to listen in on anyone
else's phone calls and private conversations, read their mail, e-mail,
newsgroup posts, etc. Certain of these communications are not bestowed with
an expectation of privacy. Wiretaps, bugging, intercepting mail -- all are
too easy to do, so the courts have determined that any information that comes
to law enforcement must be authorized by a court order; otherwise that
information cannot be used in a court of law.

The Supreme Court says "We therefore conclude that petitioner
in all probability entertained no actual expectation of privacy in
the phone numbers he dialed, and that, even if he did, his expectation
was not "legitimate."

Under the guise of "fighting terrorism" the Shrub Administration has decided
they can eavesdrop on anyone because they have the right to incarcerate anyone
without bothering with a court of law, legal counsel, trial by jury, habeas
corpus. In December, George WMD Bush said NSA was listening *only* to
"international calls to and from terrorists" without obtaining a FISA court
order. Turns out they're monitoring "hundred of millions" of *domestic*
calls, too. There are plenty of Bush Cultists who post to this forum who
bandy about words like "traitor" and "terrorist" to anyone who disagrees with
the administration... indeed, anyone who makes fun of the Bushies (Stephen
Colbert, for example). Is it that hard to imagine a future administration
that might consider, say, anti-abortion activists in league with
clinic-bombers and doctor-shooters and, by association, domestic terrorists?

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.


If Bush succeeds in negating your 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Amendment rights,
some future administration will find wiping out your 2nd Amendment "rights" to
be a piece of cake.

.
User: "Joseph Welch"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 02:28:13 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:joL9g.23347$Sl4.10645@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.

Care to do a Google search on the name "Slick Willy"?
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 05:39:03 PM
"Joseph Welch" <seattledemocracy@freewebspace.com> wrote in message
news:hxL9g.4454$zH6.3477@fe04.buzzardnews.com...


"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:joL9g.23347$Sl4.10645@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.


Care to do a Google search on the name "Slick Willy"?

Lots of hits ... now what?
.
User: "Joseph Welch"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 07:31:44 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:FoO9g.47853$MM6.16613@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.


Care to do a Google search on the name "Slick Willy"?


Lots of hits ... now what?

Why would you claim that referring to Bush as "the Shrub" (personally I
prefer scum-sucking pig fucking traitor) would be an indication that of
either a child or an immature adult?
Explain.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 08:13:36 PM
"Joseph Welch" <seattledemocracy@freewebspace.com> wrote in message
news:QZP9g.5438$zH6.108@fe04.buzzardnews.com...


"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:FoO9g.47853$MM6.16613@bignews3.bellsouth.net...

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.


Care to do a Google search on the name "Slick Willy"?


Lots of hits ... now what?


Why would you claim that referring to Bush as "the Shrub" (personally I prefer
scum-sucking pig fucking traitor) would be an indication that of either a
child or an immature adult?

Explain.

Nope. If you don't see it, it's a waste
of time to explain it.
.
User: "Joseph Welch"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 09:21:23 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:_AQ9g.72137$Jk3.67710@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

Why would you claim that referring to Bush as "the Shrub" (personally I
prefer scum-sucking pig fucking traitor) would be an indication that of
either a child or an immature adult?

Explain.


Nope. If you don't see it, it's a waste
of time to explain it.

Why would it be a waste?
I have another theory: you don't HAVE an answer.
How immature.
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.
User: "F. H."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 09:25:45 PM
Joseph Welch wrote:

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:_AQ9g.72137$Jk3.67710@bignews5.bellsouth.net...

Why would you claim that referring to Bush as "the Shrub" (personally I
prefer scum-sucking pig fucking traitor) would be an indication that of
either a child or an immature adult?

Explain.

Nope. If you don't see it, it's a waste
of time to explain it.


Why would it be a waste?

I have another theory: you don't HAVE an answer.

How immature.

LOL, oops! How immature of me. ;)
.




User: "F. H."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 06:21:01 PM
Bob wrote:

"Joseph Welch" <seattledemocracy@freewebspace.com> wrote in message
news:hxL9g.4454$zH6.3477@fe04.buzzardnews.com...

"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:joL9g.23347$Sl4.10645@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.

Care to do a Google search on the name "Slick Willy"?


Lots of hits ... now what?


747
.



User: "F. H."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 02:27:04 PM
Bob wrote:

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.

Little thin skinned there Bob. Shrub was made popular by Texas columnist
Molly Ivins who knows much about Junior. (count to 10 on "Junior" OK?).
It's widespread use suggests that to many it's implication is pretty
much on target.
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 03:00:59 PM
"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:cwL9g.2002$_B5.93@trnddc01...

Bob wrote:

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.


Little thin skinned there Bob. Shrub was made popular by Texas columnist Molly
Ivins who knows much about Junior. (count to 10 on "Junior" OK?). It's
widespread use suggests that to many it's implication is pretty much on
target.

It's still a sign of immaturity.
.
User: "Joseph Welch"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 07:39:00 PM
"Bob" <no@email.address> wrote in message
news:j0M9g.41876$iB2.12773@bignews4.bellsouth.net...

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message
It's still a sign of immaturity.

Says who?
--
JW
***************
"You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have
you left no sense of decency?"
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/welch-mccarthy.html
.

User: "F. H."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 03:53:46 PM
Bob wrote:

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:cwL9g.2002$_B5.93@trnddc01...

Bob wrote:

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.

Little thin skinned there Bob. Shrub was made popular by Texas columnist Molly
Ivins who knows much about Junior. (count to 10 on "Junior" OK?). It's
widespread use suggests that to many it's implication is pretty much on
target.


It's still a sign of immaturity.

Since your partial to labels, here's one for you (which I have found to
be true and which you just exhibited):
Republicans tend to lean toward a parental perspective.
While you in your confident sense of maturity see a "sign or immaturity"
most other adults recognize simple sarcasm.
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 05:35:45 PM
"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:uNM9g.1204$Go6.841@trnddc04...

Bob wrote:

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:cwL9g.2002$_B5.93@trnddc01...

Bob wrote:

Are you an adult? I ask because the use of the
term "Shrub", to describe the president, is an
indication of either a child or an immature adult.

Little thin skinned there Bob. Shrub was made popular by Texas columnist
Molly Ivins who knows much about Junior. (count to 10 on "Junior" OK?).
It's widespread use suggests that to many it's implication is pretty much on
target.


It's still a sign of immaturity.


Since your partial to labels, here's one for you (which I have found to be
true and which you just exhibited):

There was no label, but you know that,
right?

Republicans tend to lean toward a parental perspective.

While you in your confident sense of maturity see a "sign or immaturity" most
other adults recognize simple sarcasm.

I doubt that's true, but I would interested
in seeing how you substantiate that claim.
.
User: "F. H."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 06:20:13 PM
Bob wrote:

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message

Since your partial to labels, here's one for you (which I have found to be
true and which you just exhibited):

There was no label, but you know that, right?

You wrote: "I ask because the use of the term "Shrub", to describe the
president, is an indication of either a child or an immature adult."
So what is it, a diagnosis?

Republicans tend to lean toward a parental perspective.
While you in your confident sense of maturity see a "sign or immaturity" most
other adults recognize simple sarcasm.

I doubt that's true, but I would interested in seeing how you substantiate that claim.

Noticing that republicans are "parental" is a sign of 'maturity' and
simple deduction (they know what's best for *everybody*.
As for 747 on sarcasm, one can see it here everyday.
.
User: "Bob"

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 07:15:38 PM
"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:NWO9g.2026$_B5.453@trnddc01...

Bob wrote:

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message


Since your partial to labels, here's one for you (which I have found to be
true and which you just exhibited):


There was no label, but you know that, right?


You wrote: "I ask because the use of the term "Shrub", to describe the
president, is an indication of either a child or an immature adult."

So what is it, a diagnosis?

It isn't a label.


Republicans tend to lean toward a parental perspective.


While you in your confident sense of maturity see a "sign or immaturity"
most
other adults recognize simple sarcasm.


I doubt that's true, but I would interested in seeing how you substantiate
that claim.


Noticing that republicans are "parental" is a sign of 'maturity' and simple
deduction (they know what's best for *everybody*.

As for 747 on sarcasm, one can see it here everyday.

There is life outside of Usenet. Anecdotal evidence
won't cut it. It was simply your opinion stated as fact.
.
User: "F. H."

Title: Re: Dialing and the Democrats 14 May 2006 08:36:29 PM
Bob wrote:

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message

Bob wrote:

"F. H." <connectu2@verizon.net> wrote in message

Since your partial to labels, here's one for you (which I have found to be
true and which you just exhibited):

There was no label, but you know that, right?

You wrote: "I ask because the use of the term "Shrub", to describe the
president, is an indication of either a child or an immature adult."
So what is it, a diagnosis?

It isn't a label.

You wrote it but you can't describe it. I see, kind of like
wiretapping, stick to what it *isn't* until people tire of the subject.

As for 747 on sarcasm, one can see it here everyday.

There is life outside of Usenet.

For mature adults only, right?

Anecdotal evidence won't cut it.

Tell it to the jury.

It was simply your opinion stated as fact.

1st year law student?
.
















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